Lord of the Rings - Political Book?

[PYROMANIAC]

Is it true this is a political book?

[Zippy]

Its a fantasy story, about hobbits and rings and evil lords. People read too much into things like this sometimes. It isnt satire, it doesnt have hidden meanings, its just a story about young Frodo.

I saw a South Bank Show on Tolkein and The Lord Of The Rings, and people were commenting on racism because the evil characters were "Black Riders" and this showed he didnt like black people. The same thing as above, people reading too much into what is written.

Zippy.

[Michael]

It's just a great book.I haven't seen the movie yet,but I had a pretty good time reading it.It's a fantasy story but it also has to do with reality.
Some people said that Tolkien wrote it for the second world war(he wrote it during the 40's).He always denied that.Read it if you haven't yet.It's great.

[Drifter]

'black riders' yeah thats a good one,
people will pull all sorts of connotations out of literature to satisfy their political leanings and prejudices

[Hayduke]

You can talk to much about policits aslo....ya know.....

[MJM]

I heard Tolkien felt there was a lack of mythical-historical-traditional stories in britain.
He liked the nordic tradition etc. and decided to adapt something similar to britain.

[DaNatural]

dont mean to spoil the fun, but I think books like this although im sure there entertaining are not very applicable to the world we live in. Instead of wasting our time with stuff like this we should read books that have some sort of meaning in our own lives.

[MJM]

Danatural I agree with what you say in some respects, but I get tired reading non fiction too much.I like to sit down with some science fiction from time to time and just imagine the future.
I read several books at once, usually 1 fiction and 2 non fiction.

[Zippy]

Quote: from DaNatural on 6:25 am on Jan. 18, 2002
Instead of wasting our time with stuff like this we should read books that have some sort of meaning in our own lives.
Climb out of your own arse. It has fuck all meaning to my life but LOTR is a form of entertainment, purely read for my own enjoyment.

When we forget how to have fun then we have lost something very dear.

Zippy.

[Valkyrie]

MJM,

Have you ever read the excellent sci-fi book "Childhood's End" by Arthur C.Clarke. It's a good one!

[MJM]

No,I quite like Clark so I'll check it out.
Some of my favourite sci-fi books would be.
Stranger in a strange land-R.A.Heinlan.
The Foundation series-Issac Asimov.
The day of the Triffods-John Wyndham.
The GAP series-Stephen Donaldson

The best sci-fi IMO is the short stories collections you can get.

[DaNatural]

i hear what your saying guys, but u can find entertainment in non fiction, the autobiography of malcom x, as told to alex haley is extremely entertaining and exciting, along with other books such as, live on death row, by mumia abu jamal, other non fictions provide entertainment aswell. I dont want to discourage from entertainment, hell i dont want to read serious shit all the time but i think we can find entertainment in non fiction books which deal with the here and now. peace

[Valkyrie]

speaking of Alex Haley.. Roots is one of the best books that has been published, as well as the tv miniseries.

[pce]

"i think we can find entertainment in non fiction books which deal with the here and now. "

lets not mix the meanings of fiction and fantasy. there are a lot of fiction books that deal with very real political and social issues. some of my favorites are "catch-22," "one flew over the cuckoo's nest," "the stranger," and "the catcher in the rye."

furthermore, a good fiction book is like any other work of art. all art is not profound and all art does not have to be. sometimes art is made for art's sake.

[DaNatural]

pce, im generally talking about lord of the rings which to me has very little to do with reality. Catch 22 has alot to do with life hell macbeth and other fictional stories do to, but im generally talking about fantasy not all ficiton. peace

[Jurhael]

It's possible to incorporate some reality into fantasy. It's not just escapism. A good example is how many fantasy authors often have tolerance and racial harmony as themes in their stories. That's just an example.

Quite a few of them also have other political themes. Robin Hobb, Marion Zimmer Bradly, George Martin, Mercades Lackey etc.

It just depends on what you read. *shrugs*


And I ADORE Stephen Donaldson! The Gap Cycle is among my favorites.

[suffianr]

DaNatural:

How can anyone diss the Lord of the Rings??

It's probably the greatest book of the 20th century, possibly ranks amongst literary epics like the Mahabraphta, or the Rig Vedas.

It's a 'live' book; you get drawn into a living, breathing world that was inspired by Norse mythologies, Victorian sensibilities, and the Great War.

It contains several invented languages, poems and works of calligraphy. The book itself is an artform.

The non-fiction that you read has probably dulled your perception of imaginative, no, "creative works" to the extent that you would not notice a hobbit if it strolled right under your nose.

[Avamatha]

If you place MiddleEart's map on Europe's map you'll see some nice little things.
First, U.K and Shire are at the same place. Hobbits are a bit like brits, aren't they? :)

And we must remember, that it was during the second world war when Tolkien wrote these things. Just look at these two maps, you'll find this and that interesting.

Maybe it's a coincidence, but funny, though. :)

[MJM]

It's no coincidence.
I believe Tolkien felt there was a lack of historical figures and tales compared to the Norse with Thor and loki and the Greeks and Romans with all their great poems and historical fiction/legends.
So he set out to write LOTR with this in mind.
I think The Hobbit was a work of fiction which sowed the seeds of the mythologies he created in LOTR.
I'm reading LOTR at the moment for the 2nd time, it's good to go over it and see what I missed the first time.

[suffianr]

Good man.

I've read it twice, too, and I still think its great! You get into more detail the second time, and you'll probably end up reading the appendixes, too.

I'd recommend the book to anyone...and everyone.

[GWF]

Lord of the Rings is a great book, but it gets bored when you are reading it to long in a day. I have the first part now since december and I just before or past the middle. Now I think of it I had a lot to do this year so maybe I didn't had the time.

[timbaly]

I have heard that there is a political statement in the book, however i don't remember it at the moment. But it will come to me eventually

[EwokUtopia]

It is a good book, and though Tolkien intended no metaphor of the times, there is a clear statement against industrialism. I do not think it is possible for industrial society to live on this earth without destroying it, therefore we must cast industry into mount doom.

[Comrade-Z]

I don't think this quote necessarily proves anything, but I found it interesting nonetheless.

"My opinions lean more and more to anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning abolition of control, not whiskered men with bombs)..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien, in a letter to his son.(1)

But I do get a queasy feeling that Tolkien criticized capitalism from the feudal angle, rather than a communist one, but then again, we might be all reading too much into this stuff. Tolkien stated that his book was meant for entertainment, foremostly. He was definitely against unrestrained industrialism for the sake of profit, which is one reason why hippies took so great a liking to his works.


(1)--source: CrimethInc. Rolling Thunder, Winter 2006 edition, page 103.

[Red Menace]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 07:23 PM
It is a good book, and though Tolkien intended no metaphor of the times, there is a clear statement against industrialism. I do not think it is possible for industrial society to live on this earth without destroying it, therefore we must cast industry into mount doom.
exactly. its message is anti-industrialism. his idea from the book stems from when Tolkien grew up in Birmingham, England. It was a quaint little town AKA Hobbiton. then it was invaded by industrialism. The beautiful town Tolkien once knew was now a dark town. dark smoke and ash rose from the old town mill. He saw it as a threat to all that was beautiful in his town. He wrote about how it was important to fight for all that is still beautiful in the world. i am a huge fan of his work, in case you haven't noticed yet.

[Janus]

there is a clear statement against industrialism.

Yes, that is quite clear in the novel. However, Tolkien is mainly opposed towards unlimited and uneconomical industrialism rather than industry in general.

I think that the Lord of the Rings is a good work of fiction as well as a social commentary on the times.

[FinnMacCool]

The Lord of the Rings is pretty far from a political book. The writer was actually a conservative Franco supporter but hopefully that won't turn you off because its actually a really good book. One thing I did appreciate was Tolkien's pro enviorment sentiments. Its a very difficult book to hate in my opinion. Its not bad at all.

Wow I just noticed how old this thread is.

[RevSouth]

It is almost laughable, but Isengard always seemed to me to be the biggest representation of unquelled rapid industrialization. Especially in the movies, but that could have been hollywood environmentalists, depicting the rape of the forests and land surrounding Isengard.

[LoneRed]

Finn, do you have any ample evidence to show that he was a Franco supporter?

[FinnMacCool]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 11:14 PM
Finn, do you have any ample evidence to show that he was a Franco supporter?
I saw a movie 'Inside Tolkein's the Hobbit' which was actually a study of Tolkien. It had an interview with a Tolkien biographer who said that he was a Franco supporter.

Other then that though, I couldn't find anything relating to him supporting on the internet. However, I did see someone comment in a blog that he wrote a letter about Franco in 1981 volume. However, other then that, there was no indication whether he supported Franco or not. I would like to find the letter if I can.

However I did find though that he was a conservative catholic who was friends with C.S. Lewis. Interesting.

[LoneRed]

I find that interesting as well.

regardless he was an amazing writer and storyteller

[FinnMacCool]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 12:07 AM
I find that interesting as well.

regardless he was an amazing writer and storyteller
Oh yeah. The fact that he was a conservative should never affect a persons eppeciation for certain lit. the only type of crap you can throw in the garbage is Ayn Rand shit.