Russian Stalinists write to Madonna

[Revy]

I couldn't make this shit up if I tried. (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fkplo.ru%2Fcontent%2Fview%2F968%2F5% 2F&sl=ru&tl=en&history_state0=)

The translation isn't really that good but I'm sure a close reading of it will give you the general idea of what they're saying.

[n0thing]

"We are asking you, Madonna, to include in their repertoire at the Palace Square something revolutionary song in honor of participants in the storming of the Winter."

Is this a joke?

[Revy]

No....
they are known for this kind of antics.
They are the Communists of Petersburg, that's what they call themselves, and they are a local group in St. Petersburg.

[Ismail]

"Stalinists" in what sense?

[Dimentio]

"Stalinists" in what sense?

90% of all Russian communists are upholding Stalin, not so much for any eventual ideological contributions as for his "leadership of Glorious Soviet Russian motherland". Most of them think that Stalin was some sort of nationalist strongman (Atatürk or Hitler figure), and have him as a father figure. They usually don't know anything about communism, except that "everyone should have social benefits and that Jewish bankers have stolen Russian pension funds".

They are basically nationalists who look at Stalin's time as the height of national power for Russia.

Oh yes, they are of course homophobic misogynists who think that a woman's place is in the kitchen. But that has more to do with Russia than with stalinism.

[mosfeld]

'Russian cuisine in a hundred times better than the English, where only one sticky and sugary oatmeal pudding. Try our pancakes, cabbage soup, and fresh milk and you will understand how much loss of life'

glorious comradely russian pancakes for madonna :hammersickle:

This translation reminds me of this http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf

[Soviet]

Communist Party of Russian Federation(RPRF) doesn't relete nither to communism,nor to "stalinism",it is opportunistic party of social-democratic type.That's at first.
At second.


90% of all Russian communists are upholding Stalin, not so much for any eventual ideological contributions as for his "leadership of Glorious Soviet Russian motherland". Most of them think that Stalin was some sort of nationalist strongman (Atatürk or Hitler figure), and have him as a father figure. They usually don't know anything about communism, except that "everyone should have social benefits and that Jewish bankers have stolen Russian pension funds".
I'm fed up with such idiocy.Russians are morons,they leaved under Stalin for 30 years but didn't understood nothing and every shitty american or europian know more about Stalin and his time.
Not a bloody thing you know,boys,got it?

[Dimentio]

I'm fed up with such idiocy.Russians are morons,they leaved under Stalin for 30 years but didn't understand nothing and every shitty american or europian know more about Stalin and his time.
Not a bloody thing you know,boys,got it?

I am not talking about Stalin and his time, but about how modern Russian communists like the KPRF are perceiving it.

[Revy]

then why do they call for the canonization of Stalin in the Russian Orthodox Church? That's about as pro-Stalin as you can get.

http://i31.tinypic.com/2hnpch5.jpg
source. (http://video.mail.ru/list/komspb/komspb/27.html)

[Dimentio]

then why do they call for the canonization of Stalin in the Russian Orthodox Church? That's about as pro-Stalin as you can get.

http://i31.tinypic.com/2hnpch5.jpg
source. (http://video.mail.ru/list/komspb/komspb/27.html)

I know there was a party of "Christian Leninists" in the Russian Federation.

I think that is about finding some sort of national identity. Just look at all videos of Stalin, Lenin, the Red Army and such published by Russians on youtube. The same user who posts a video glorifying Stalin could also post a video honouring the Orthodox Church or calling for an anti-muslim crusade in Kosovo.

[Soviet]

What do you want to prove by that?That all stalinists are Orthodox?

[Charles Xavier]

Chairman of the CC Ideological Commission KP lawyer Vladimir Mukhin, expressing the position of the party, announced the resumption of irrelevance in Petersburg night television from 27 July:


"Night television very badly affected the attendance of jobs the next morning, digging a student from examinations, destroys families, prevent sleep for older people and in general undermine human biorhythms. Night must sleep! Must return to the concept of broadcasting the Soviet era. The TV should start no later than 23.00. Detectives need to show only on Fridays. There still is important to understand that in crisis, employers, and only seek to cling to something and remove laborer. And capitalists were very happy night television. The man was late for morning work, and his firing. Maybe, and conspiracy was. saved the night for television means must be directed to the creation of children's programming and television on the exploits of pioneers, heroes. Thus, the Communists of St. Petersburg are categorically against the resumption of night television! "

[communard resolution]

This is priceless. First, the Russian Orthodox church objects to Madonna's gig in St Petersburg as to not desecreate a nearby church.

Then a right-wing Catholic crew protests agains her concert in Warsaw, praying for this blasphemous spectacle not to take place.

Now the Communist Party asks her to 'dress modestly' and mind 'the rules of morality'... it's 2009, people!

Are these the remains of the official CP, by the way? If so, I am not too surprised. Members of this party have been known to attend Anti-Gay Pride protests and march alongside National Bolsheviks (=fascists).

[n0thing]

These guys are trolls.

[bleh]

Oh yes, they are of course homophobic misogynists who think that a woman's place is in the kitchen. But that has more to do with Russia than with stalinism.
How so? Wasn't Stalin a rehabilitator of the family unit, relatively speaking?

[LOLseph Stalin]

then why do they call for the canonization of Stalin in the Russian Orthodox Church? That's about as pro-Stalin as you can get.

http://i31.tinypic.com/2hnpch5.jpg
source. (http://video.mail.ru/list/komspb/komspb/27.html)

Wow, ok. That is about as fucked up as these things get. Personality cult anyone?


How so? Wasn't Stalin a rehabilitator of the family unit, relatively speaking?

And yes, Stalin banned gay marriage, abortion, and generally held Conservative social views.

[khad]

Wow, ok. That is about as fucked up as these things get. Personality cult anyone?
Ironically, Stalin destroyed churches. He also destroyed the National Bolsheviks. However, that doesn't stop either group from worshiping him.

[JimmyJazz]

Communist Party of Russian Federation(RPRF) doesn't relete nither to communism,nor to "stalinism",it is opportunistic party of social-democratic type.That's at first.
At second.



I'm fed up with such idiocy.Russians are morons,they leaved under Stalin for 30 years but didn't understand nothing and every shitty american or europian know more about Stalin and his time.
Not a bloody thing you know,boys,got it?

1. "They lived under Stalin for 30 years" - No, they didn't. Anyone who lived under Stalin for 30 years is dead.

2. If popularity of a leader is what determines their quality, well than Hitler still has his fans in Germany. You can meet them in Dresden each year, if you're interested.

3. "every shitty american or european" - Wow. Nice.

Your position is populism, not principled socialism (or anything else principled for that matter).

And the simple fact is that most fans of Stalin in the USSR are nationalists, who like him precisely because he was one.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Ironically, Stalin destroyed churches. He also destroyed the National Bolsheviks. However, that doesn't stop either group from worshiping him.

Yea, that's what I don't fully understand. These people in churches are using his image, yet he was an Anti-Theist. I think it's a nostalgic personality cult thing more than anything.

[gorillafuck]

These guys are pretty nuts.

[NecroCommie]

Oh, what did Stalin do to our beloved ideals in Russia! I know many nice and civilized russians so I'd hate to label an entire nation, but russian "communism" is bad... I mean really bad...

[makesi]

Whine, whine, whine......

Why couldn't the Russians do things the way we know they should have been done?!?!

They're like white blooches to you people. Give it a rest.

[Soviet]

And the simple fact is that most fans of Stalin in the USSR are nationalists, who like him precisely because he was one.

A simple fact is that you are prying to write things about wich you don't know nothing.You'd never speak about nationalism of "stalinists" if you'd know that the USSR and Russia are multinational states.
http://www.land-cruiser.ru/Forum/uploads/post-565-1236926776.jpg

This is Stalin monument bilt by veterans of WW2 in Yakutia in 2005.Stalinists are Yakutian nationalists?Stalin monuments were also opened in Dagestan and Oasethia.Maybe stalinists are osethian or dagestanian nationalists?

Anyone who lived under Stalin for 30 years is dead.

No comment.

If popularity of a leader is what determines their quality, well than Hitler still has his fans in Germany.
Thank you for this comparison.All this Soviet generation that fought agaist Nazi are Nazi themseves becouse they worshiped Stalin,you know.My grandpearants were Nazi too.Thanks,it's impossible to forget.

Listen, all you, your unwillingness to understand other people,your firm belief that all things you know better - that is your racism.
It is you are racists,not stalinists.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

Many considered the Soviet Union to be a nation itself, thus "nationalists" still applies.

Also, nobody is calling you or your grandparents Nazis. It was a comparison showing how even Hitler has his own personality cults just like Stalin. Does this make Hitler a good leader?

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

As idiotic as this is, based off of a few of their documents they do appear to be legitimate communists.

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

As idiotic as this is, based off of a few of their documents they do appear to be legitimate communists.

No way. They're a silly group that's for all intents and purposes closely affiliated with the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, whose ideology is a recipe composed of class-collaborationist "socialist" power, participation in bourgeois politicking as a social democratic party (their outwardly Leninist rhetoric notwithstanding, of course), and praise for Stalin as a figure of national strength. They even describe themselves as "the same as the CPRF but younger, happier and more creative" -- "такие же коммунисты, как и КПРФ, только лучше: современнее, моложе, веселее, креативнее." (The Socialist Party's OP, Stencil - who's given us the GoogleTranslated the Madonna letter - could also have translated the "Who We Are" page and seen that the "Stalinist" Petersburg organization also describes itself as "part of the democratic left" and an organization for "democratic socialism" that has no ties to any of the "CPSU traditions": http://kplo.ru/content/blogcategory/10/12/.)

This doesn't mean that there aren't sincere - if deeply confused - party members looking for a genuine Marxist ideology in spite of a Zyuganovite leadership that's been compared to the White Guard in the Russian press, or that there are no authentic revolutionary communists in other Russian political parties that the worst of the sectarian extremists here would reject off-handedly as "Stalinist." (Because there are coherent "Stalinists" in Russia who reject Zyuganov's CPRF as a social democratic/class collaborationist/nationalist chimera masking itself as a viable Marxist alternative.)

But the unfortunate bunch from St. Petersburg in the OP's post are of the unmistakably Zyuganovite pseudocommunist variety.

I'm not sure why the OP brought it up on this forum. This is not fertile ground for political debate - and no one I've seen on RevLeft takes these "communists" with any inkling of sincerity or gravity. So I'm not sure why all the fussing's on now...

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

No way. They're a silly group that's for all intents and purposes closely affiliated with the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, whose ideology is a recipe composed of class-collaborationist "socialist" power, participation in bourgeois politicking as a social democratic party (their outwardly Leninist rhetoric notwithstanding, of course), and praise for Stalin as a figure of national strength. They even describe themselves as "the same as the CPRF but younger, happier and more creative" -- "такие же коммунисты, как и КПРФ, только лучше: современнее, моложе, веселее, креативнее." (The Socialist Party's OP, Stencil - who's given us the GoogleTranslated the Madonna letter - could also have translated the "Who We Are" page and seen that the "Stalinist" Petersburg organization also describes itself as "part of the democratic left" and an organization for "democratic socialism" that has no ties to any of the "CPSU traditions": http://kplo.ru/content/blogcategory/10/12/.)

This doesn't mean that there aren't sincere - if deeply confused - party members looking for a genuine Marxist ideology in spite of a Zyuganovite leadership that's been compared to the White Guard in the Russian press, or that there are no authentic revolutionary communists in other Russian political parties that the worst of the sectarian extremists here would reject off-handedly as "Stalinist." (Because there are coherent "Stalinists" in Russia who reject Zyuganov's CPRF as a social democratic/class collaborationist/nationalist chimera masking itself as a viable Marxist alternative.)

But the unfortunate bunch from St. Petersburg in the OP's post are of the unmistakably Zyuganovite pseudocommunist variety.

I'm not sure why the OP brought it up on this forum. This is not fertile ground for political debate - and no one I've seen on RevLeft takes these "communists" with any inkling of sincerity or gravity. So I'm not sure why all the fussing's on now...

All I've read was there program. You say they praise Stalin and are nationalists, but their program says this, for example:


implementation of national policies based on the recognition of the equality of nations, the elimination of inter-ethnic conflict, all forms of xenophobia and chauvinism, the prohibition of all nationalist organizations;or


At the time, hanging over the USSR's foreign imperialist threat requiring quick and accurate response. We used almost all the extraordinary possibilities of mobilization of economy. As soon as possible, historically was industrialization, which in the capitalist countries, has taken an entire era. In the interest of the industrialization of agriculture was collectivized. However, the reality began to mass repression, serious human rights abuses, unwarranted persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church and other religious denominations.

The victory of the Soviet people in the Great Patriotic War, the successful recovery of the economy demanded an rigid centralization and governmentalization many spheres of public life. Unfortunately, this route has been wrongly erected in absolute and adopted as a guiding principle. As a result, more and more confined to the free amateur organization of people, not public demand energy and initiative of workers.

Having an outdated model of the type of development of productive forces, socialism is largely lost its historic initiative in the economy, democracy, freedom of culture.

Broad sectors of workers do not feel ownership of the results of their labor. Care of the socialist state in the social sphere gave people confidence in the future, but at the same time, it creates among the citizens of dependency and social passivity.

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

All I've read was there program. You say they praise Stalin and are nationalists, but their program says...

Their program is not particularly useful, since they simply use Marxist sloganeering for social-democratic purposes -- much as the CPUSA does not in the United States.

These are the people who wanted to canonize Stalin in the Russian Orthodox Church back in 2008: http://palm.newsru.com/religy/27nov2008/partiya.html.

The fact that they advertise themselves by stressing the role of the CPRF -- the completely revisionist, xenophobic social-democratic outfit -- also has its role, especially as they offer no hint of any substantial criticism of the party except its level of activism today.

[Revy]

I agree that they and CPRF are social democrats basically. CPRF even elected a millionaire to the Duma. I read that Putin gave Zyuganov The Communist Manifesto as a birthday gift, which must have been some disturbing inside joke between them.

I wasn't sure what to call them in the title. I went with Stalinist because it was obvious they loved Stalin. I did not even have to know about the canonization thing to recognize them as the type. It was the alternative to dignifying them with the label "communist" which I would have preferred not to do. But then again I have never seen Stalinism as inherently more radical or less prone to social democratic degeneration.

The dicussion about Russia/Russians was unfortunate, that was never my intention. I'm sure a lot of the smaller communist/socialist groups are far more respectable and legitimate.

[Dimentio]

Source?



Are they nationalists or communists?



What are you trying to say? That Russians are just "naturally" homophobic and patriarchal?

Could you explain the October Revolution then, and its early liberating features including educating women, making abortion and contraception available, attempts to communalize housework, eliminating laws against homosexuals, etc., etc.?

No, I do not mean that Russians are inherently homophobic and patriarchal.

Not any more than other Eastern European countries. The reason why nationalism, homophobia and moralism is so popular in the Russian Federation is not because of the Russians, but because of the conditions there today.

Modern Russia could be called "Weimar Russia". It is filled to the limit with antisemitism, conspiracy theories, nostalgia for the superpower status and revanschism, tendencies which are being fervently supported by putinism.

Most Russian communists are members of the KPRF faction, which is upholding Stalin. The NBP also have lots of members, and they are upholding Stalin too. The AKM, the closest thing to a western anti-fascist movement, is upholding Stalin too.

I am not a racist or a russophobe if I claim what is obvious, that Russia is filled with racism, right-wing extremism and revanschism. 1905 and 1917 was a different time period.

Stop using strawmen arguments.

[Sam_b]

No surprises that Dimentio, however, cannot provide a single source. It also ties in with Nero's question (not to tarnish it, of course, its perfectly valid):


Are these the remains of the official CP, by the way?

For all intents and purposes, yes: the PKRF has taken on the legacy of the old Communst Party of the Soviet Union, in the sense that they have adopted the legacy and claimed it as their own. However, that is not the only communist force of course alive in Russia. When Dimentio makes his ridiculous 90% claim he obviously negates other organisations - most prominantly the Russian Communist Worker's Party-Revolutionary Party of Communists (РКРП-РПК). This group is about 50,000 strong and very vocal, especially it's youth section, the Revolutionary Communist Youth League (Bolsheviks) who are one of the most active in the country. The last election this party stood in was the 1999 Duma election and received about one and a half million votes. They split with the KPRF because they (probably rightly) deemed it reformist.

The All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) should not really be sniffed at for size either, if my memory serves me. Basically what Dimentio is trying to do is take the sometimes correct generalisation of the rise of homophobia, racism and Anti-Semitism in Russia and apply it to include the overwhelming majority of communists in the country, and without evidence shows this allegation up to be complete slander. The Marxist-Leninist left in Russia is much more than support for the KP and the NazBols. Take into account the rise in other left wing and worker's parties in the country and this figure is very wrong indeed.