ISO: God's "Socialists"

[fredbergen]

http://www.internationalist.org/isogodssocialists_large.jpg

Read Iran's Islamic Republic in Turmoil -- What Program for Struggle? (http://www.internationalist.org/iranturmoil0907.html) from The Internationalist.

[OriginalGumby]

Jesus Christ do you know that the ISO was two years old then? And Lee's article is honest that the Islamists crushed the workers movement. How relevant is to nit pick every obscure mistake ever? This is why you will not play a significant role in re-establishing revolutionary socialist politics.

If you really can not move beyond a vulger marxism to recognize that there is a contradiction between Mousavi actual class position and the way people see him while they are on a trajectory that is bringing them further left. This is a positive thing and we are in solidarity with it not tailing it. In my article I say that you should be involved in the struggle to push it further left and beyond the interests of a section of the ruling class. This is not done by castigating all the more conservative forces from the sidelines.
http://socialistworker.org/2009/07/09/iranian-protesters-deserve-support

[The Situationist]

God's an athiest.

[L.J.Solidarity]

According to the content, that could be a Spartacist leaflet, but the layout is just too good for the sparts.

[UlyssesTheRed]

Jesus Christ do you know that the ISO was two years old then? And Lee's article is honest that the Islamists crushed the workers movement. How relevant is to nit pick every obscure mistake ever? This is why you will not play a significant role in re-establishing revolutionary socialist politics.

If you really can not move beyond a vulger marxism to recognize that there is a contradiction between Mousavi actual class position and the way people see him while they are on a trajectory that is bringing them further left. This is a positive thing and we are in solidarity with it not tailing it. In my article I say that you should be involved in the struggle to push it further left and beyond the interests of a section of the ruling class. This is not done by castigating all the more conservative forces from the sidelines.
http://socialistworker.org/2009/07/09/iranian-protesters-deserve-support

So when does the ISO- at the time part of an international tendency several decades old- stop getting a pass on sucking up to mullahs? When are we allowed to hold them accountable?

I love that you think that "how people see" Mousavi is important to this discussion. Idealism instead of materialism much? But then again, that's part for the course with the vulgar reformism that the ISO is known for. This is the group that apparently thinks the role of a revolutionary is to move sections of working class policy to the left.

Your organization seriously gets more and more like DSA with each passing second. It's ok. You're always good for a laugh. :lol:

[FreeFocus]

I love that you think that "how people see" Mousavi is important to this discussion. Idealism instead of materialism much?

Oh please. If you don't think perception is just as important to human action as material reality is, I think you have a very poor grasp of psychological theory. Psychology is often neglected by the left. Perception is extremely important to any discussion of reality, including politics. Sure, it's not a perception .vs. material dichotomy, there's a complex interplay between them, but sometimes they do conflict.

[fredbergen]

Oh please. If you don't think perception is just as important to human action as material reality is, I think you have a very poor grasp of psychological theory. Psychology is often neglected by the left. Perception is extremely important to any discussion of reality, including politics. Sure, it's not a perception .vs. material dichotomy, there's a complex interplay between them, but sometimes they do conflict.

So the perception (avidly abetted by the ISO and the rest of the opportunists -- Grant, Healy, Mandel, Barnes, etc.) was that the "Islamic Revolution" was something progressive, anti-imperialist, "revolutionary." "The Form - Religious; The Spirit - Revolution".

The reality was that thousands of workers, women, leftists, national minorities, were imprisoned, tortured, and killed by the "revolutionary" regime.

Yes, illusory "perception," bourgeois, false consciousness is important to revolutionary Marxists. We must explain what is, even if that means swimming against the current and trampling on the most cherished and universal "perceptions."

"Perception," in the end, is not very perceptive. Reality can be perceived, but not by the fever-cocked eye of the habitual camp-follower. We don't have a crystal ball or "ESP", but we were able to see through the distortion of bourgeois ideology to perceive that the mullahs were no friends of the workers and oppressed. What do you think prevented the ISO and the rest of the left from "perceiving" this fact, so obvious in hindsight?

[redasheville]

Hey Fred, I saw some members of the Spartacist League today. Next time I see them I'll be sure to tell them you said "Hi".

[fredbergen]

You can tell them whatever you want but I do not support the Spartacist League. After the counterrevolution in the Soviet Union in 1991-92, the SL purged leading cadres who went on to found the Internationalist Group/Grupo Internacionalista. Fleeing from a key class battle in Brazil to expel cops from the municipal workers union of Volta Redonda, the SL began to abandon the Trotskyist program that it had upheld for more than 30 years, on a centrist drift toward abstentionist social-democracy. For a recent example of the political differences between the Trotskyism of the Internationalist Group/League for the Fourth International and the rightward-drifting centrism of the ICL, see this article from The Internationalist no. 27 (http://www.internationalist.org/int27toc.html): "Workers Vanguard Brings Up the Rear: The Opportunist Left and the Port Strike Against the War: The Sound of One Hand Clapping (http://www.internationalist.org/ilwumaydaystrikeleft0805.html)".

[redasheville]

I'm sure they'll give me an equally doctrinaire response.

[fredbergen]

If you are serious about revolutionary politics and struggle it is possible to find out the truth for yourself and take a side.