OI Political Correctness Thread

[Richard Nixon]

Discuss political correctness here.

One point I'd like to make is why some board members on the PC thread in the Discrimnation Forum think African American is a bigoted term since it makes blacks take the name of their "colonial oppressors". Well my point is this: they live in the USA and are American citizens thus like Italian Americans or Korean Americans they are African Americans. And if a black person don't like being "Americans" then they should move back to Africa like Marcus Garvey. I'm not being racist and advocating this I'm just saying those African-Americans who dislike the US ought to take a trip to Africa and see how much better off they are in the US. Also for slavery repatriations, what about white indentured servants who was some of the first colonists to arrive in the USA? Should we trace every record and family tree to repartriate all of their descendants and if so how much percentage of his ancestry has to be that of an indentured servant for him to be paid?

[Plagueround]

Imperialism destroys a continent, takes a portion of its population for slaves, institutionally keeps them economically disadvantaged for centuries, all the while destroying said continent even more before cutting them lose with no help, and your answer is if they don't like it they can go back home to a now ravaged "homeland" that their ancestors were brutally forced to sever all ties with. Priceless.

As for your suggestion about reparations, perhaps that demonstrates how futile trying to reform such a broken system actually is.

[Richard Nixon]

Imperialism destroys a continent, takes a portion of its population for slaves, institutionally keeps them economically disadvantaged for centuries, all the while destroying said continent even more before cutting them lose with no help, and your answer is if they don't like it they can go back home to a now ravaged "homeland" that their ancestors were brutally forced to sever all ties with. Priceless.

As for your suggestion about reparations, perhaps that demonstrates how futile trying to reform such a broken system actually is.

Many other races came to the United States unwillingly like Chinese contract labourers. Also my point is that I've had it with those "Back to Africa" people like Marcus Gravey who wish to go back to their homelands although they can't be sure exactly where in Africa. Also blacks are integrating to society quite fast, but as President Barack Obama himself said much of the problems are caused by the victims themselves-drug dealing and use, fathers who abandon their families, and such things.

[Plagueround]

Many other races came to the United States unwillingly like Chinese contract labourers.

I appreciate your effort to strengthen my point for me, saves me some time typing.


Also my point is that I've had it with those "Back to Africa" people like Marcus Gravey who wish to go back to their homelands although they can't be sure exactly where in Africa.If that's your point, it is muddled and nonsensical. You've failed to account for why they they are left unsure and unable. If it makes you feel better, I've had it with people rallying against victims trying to regain a sense of who they are, reclaim an equal footing in society, or at the very least, trying to participate in that "American Dream" you people seem to pretend exists.


Also blacks are integrating to society quite fast, Do you think maybe this has something to do with programs and laws that allow them to finally gain some social mobility?


but as President Barack Obama himself saidAs much as I'm not a fan of the man, you've completely distorted what he's said. He's also spent much time articulating the hard, cold legacy of racism in America and the wounds that are still very real.


much of the problems are caused by the victims themselves-drug dealing and use, fathers who abandon their families, and such things.And what do you suppose is the catalyst for these events?

[Richard Nixon]

I appreciate your effort to strengthen my point for me, saves me some time typing.

If that's your point, it is muddled and nonsensical. You've failed to account for why they they are left unsure and unable. If it makes you feel better, I've had it with people rallying against victims trying to regain a sense of who they are, reclaim an equal footing in society, or at the very least, trying to participate in that "American Dream" you people seem to pretend exists.

Do you think maybe this has something to do with programs and laws that allow them to finally gain some social mobility?

As much as I'm not a fan of the man, you've completely distorted what he's said. He's also spent much time articulating the hard, cold legacy of racism in America and the wounds that are still very real.

And what do you suppose is the catalyst for these events?

Asians, Jews, Italians, Slavs, and Irish among others were very low on the immigrant scale when they first arrived. Indeed Italian-American labourers were given lower pay then blacks. Yet all these groups have rose and become prosperous and influential without affirmative action or any such government intervention.

[khad]

Asians, Jews, Italians, Slavs, and Irish among others were very low on the immigrant scale when they first arrived. Indeed Italian-American labourers were given lower pay then blacks. Yet all these groups have rose and become prosperous and influential without affirmative action or any such government intervention.
Leave the model minority bullshit out of this. There are many Asians like Cambodians and Laotians who are some of the poorest of the poor because they didn't get pre-screened at immigration to be primarily skilled professionals. As such, all you're doing is denying white racism towards a group of people and then using that group as a bludgeon to bash other nonwhite groups.

Furthermore, your comparison between Italian-Americans and African-Americans is bullshit because you blatantly ignore the fact that the former had the option to assimilate into the white power structure (though the process didn't complete until after ww2), while the latter had nothing.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

In my opinion, adding -American after anything is politically correct bullshit. Whats wrong with calling someone black, white, asian, latino ect?

[Plagueround]

Asians,

Looked at an affirmative action hiring sheet lately?


Jews, Italians, Slavs, and Irish among others were very low on the immigrant scale when they first arrived. Indeed Italian-American labourers were given lower pay then blacks. Yet all these groups have rose and become prosperous and influential without affirmative action or any such government intervention.While these groups certainly suffered, and I would never downplay the suffering they endured, they also had an advantage in that it was much easier for them to integrate and eventually be considered "white". Other races that did not have this ability continued to experience systematic oppression for many, many more years. Despite the supposed abolition of slavery during the civil war, many blacks continued to live in virtual slavery well into the 50s until the automatic cotton picking machines put them out of work. They then migrated to cities, only to find their jobs eliminated once again by automation being introduced into factories (Jeremy Rifkin's book "The End of Work" documents this quite well). It was not until after the civil rights movement that blacks were given even a sliver of a chance that these other ethnic groups had. Native Americans suffered a similar fate, as they were confined to reservations until being granted citizenship in 1924, although they did not emerge from reservations in any significant numbers until after world war 2, finally managing to free themselves from ineffective institutions like boarding schools and obtain the education they would need to manage their reservation's economies in any sort of effective manner, and even then they still struggle with limited resources and the longterm effects of reservationism. In both cases, both groups are still fighting an uphill battle and are still underhired and undervalued (not to mention overincarcerated). I honestly need to brush up on my Hispanic and Asian American history, so I'll discuss those in greater detail when I can.

So again, I ask you, what is the underlying cause of these people being disadvantaged? Why do YOU think they're having the trouble they experience?

[Jimmie Higgins]

Asians, Jews, Italians, Slavs, and Irish among others were very low on the immigrant scale when they first arrived. Indeed Italian-American labourers were given lower pay then blacks. Yet all these groups have rose and become prosperous and influential without affirmative action or any such government intervention.

The whole group prospered? No, some did but most are still workers. But you are correct that these groups are no longer effected by the bigotry and nativism that used to hurt them.

So how did these groups overcome nativism? The funny thing is that all these groups had to break the rules of capitalism in order to try and eek out a better place. Aside from Irish, Jews, Italians and almost every other immigrant group being heavily involved in building (illegal) unions to protect themselves for exploitation and bigotry, most of these groups formed immigrant gangs and participated in nepotism to raise their status. Modern immigrants are not that different - one family member gets a job and then tried to get relatives and friends in the workplace.

While all these groups suffered from bigotry and exploitation and so on, none of these groups were systematically and legally kept powerless like African Americans. Remember when the vote was systematically denied to the Irish? - oh wait it wasn't and so they build political machines to protect them from the nativists. Remember when Italians were not allowed to walk in groups of 3 or more? Remember when the government advised banks not to give home loans to Polish people?

Many of these groups struggled as second-class citizens for 100 years! Irish were hated from 1830 to the 1940s or so and even then they hardly suffered from the systematic and official racism forced onto the black population here! If there was affermative action back then then that would have been great and I don't think any Irish or Jewish person would turn it down in order to get out of their ghettos. Unforunately, it didn't exist back then, so immigrants and minorities fought for their rights in different ways due to different circumstances.

[yuon]

In my opinion, adding -American after anything is politically correct bullshit. Whats wrong with calling someone black, white, asian, latino ect?

In my opinion calling someone "black" or "white" or "asian" etc. is reactionary bullshit. What does it matter what colour a person's skin is? Or where their great-great-great grandparents came from?

If a person is integrated into a society (and I should note, this is a "liberal" position, rather than a radical/revolutionary position, but in the context of this society...) then why not call them what everyone else in that society is called? USAians? Citizens of the United States of America.

(As I said, that's only in the context of the current capitalist system, it is even less relevant when there are no countries for people to lay claim to.)

[SoupIsGoodFood]

I think you're saying that race shouldn't matter, and we should call everyone the same thing and I agree. But I'm just saying it seems stupid when referring to someones race to call them "Caucasian-american" instead of white. I mean I guess if you're trying to be formal, but just with people you know its dumb.

[Radical]

And if a black person don't like being "Americans" then they should move back to Africa like Marcus Garvey.

What you just said is racist you typical conservative ****. Your saying because somebody is "black", that they have already moved over from Africa and immigrated to AmeriKKKa.

Have you ever heard of black people being BORN in America?

wow

[Conquer or Die]

You defended slavery and oppression in another thread so that makes you a racist piece of shit. Is that what this thread is about?

[danyboy27]

all this for a semantic issue? wtf did you do nixon! who care how black are called in the us!
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/picard-facepalm.jpg

[Kwisatz Haderach]

And if a black person don't like being "Americans" then they should move back to Africa like Marcus Garvey. I'm not being racist and advocating this I'm just saying those African-Americans who dislike the US ought to take a trip to Africa and see how much better off they are in the US.
Actually, while it is true that the average standard of living in the US is much higher than the average standard of living in Africa, most poor Americans are worse off than most rich Africans.

So it's by no means certain that a black person will be better off in the US than in Africa. It depends on what he is in the US and what he would be in Africa.


Also for slavery repatriations, what about white indentured servants who was some of the first colonists to arrive in the USA? Should we trace every record and family tree to repartriate all of their descendants and if so how much percentage of his ancestry has to be that of an indentured servant for him to be paid?
First of all, I prefer collective reparations, based on nationalizing the means of production currently owned by the descendants of the colonial oppressors.

Second, as a general principle, the difficulty in carrying out justice is not an acceptable argument against justice.

[danyboy27]

question: is african american soud racist?
answer: no

question: what can we do if x african american hate being called that way?
answer: dont call them african american

it really is a semantic issue. i dont see what the fuss is all about

[rednordman]

In my opinion, adding -American after anything is politically correct bullshit. Whats wrong with calling someone black, white, asian, latino ect?I must then ask, is it actually considered racist to use the about terms? In the UK, where these terms are widespread, and not considered derogatory or wrong, people complain more about PC, than they probably do anywhere else in Europe. What do people want then?

Can they not accept that it is wrong and now backwards to refer to the people of differnet ethnicites as 'n*gger', 'n*g nog' 'ch*nk*' and 'pak*'. Because at times, this is actually the impression that I get.

Infact some people actually complain that the simple colour definition (black, white, and asian etc) as being politically correct terms. I can understand that the adding -american behind everything as going a little bit far, BUT i have to ask what do the different ethnicities themselves actually think about all this, do you get offended if someone refers to yourselves as black/asian etc? I would be shocked if you didnt get offended by the 4 nasties that i have mentioned.

[Faux Real]

This may be off-topic, but I cringe everytime I hear someone begin an argument with, "As an American..."

[danyboy27]

This may be off-topic, but I cringe everytime I hear someone begin an argument with, "As an American..."

particulary if you consider being born in the us is like winning the lottery of life, its not like you deserve it or something, you just had luck.

i would understand from a miggrant who fought his way out thru all the immigration papers and shit to be proud, but damn, when you are just born there, there is no prestige or nothing linked to that, except from the fact you are damn lucky not being born in some shithole ruled by a dictator.

[Rosa Provokateur]

This is almost as pointless as the argument between "gay" and "homosexual". Some people feel that "gay" is a word of liberation while others feel it's a put-down, some think that "homosexual" is bad because it makes their sexuality sound like a condition while others thionk it's just a description of what is.

Words are words. God gave us a vocabulary so we could use it, not so it could be policed. If you dont like a word then dont use it and dont be a dick by using it around overly-sensitive people.

Case closed.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

I always call African American individuals black, when I find it necessary to use a term. African American is a rather logically ridiculous term. They're not African, and they aren't always American when being referred to in such a way. A lot of people would call a black man anywhere an "African American." An African American should be someone who identifies as having an African heritage who was born in or immigrated to America. It's ridiculous to presume someone is Africa American because they're black.

Given that white people aren't usually white and black people aren't usually black, we should probably call ourselves pales and browns. The whole thing is a bunch of nonsense. Anyone who corrects me for not using the term African American (which has never happened) is being ridiculous. Yeah, "black" is also a negatively associated term. We need to change how people look at words, not run away from words when they develop a negative connotation. It's as silly as the people who want to change the word communism in hopes that it's only propaganda against a "word" that makes people oppose leftist policies.

You do a survey with communist ideals and see who supports them. Yeah, a lot more people will agree than those who would identify as "communist." It doesn't mean a word is the reason communism is discredited or "African Americans" experience racism is because of "anti-word propaganda." People have changed the terms for things in various movements. I've yet to see it have any effectiveness. The only reason I support using the term "black" over "African American" is that it's slightly less ridiculous within a cultural context.

[Richard Nixon]

You defended slavery and oppression in another thread so that makes you a racist piece of shit. Is that what this thread is about?

I did not defend slavery! What I did say was that Nat Turner's rebellion was immoral and in the long run bad for the abolitionist movement.


Actually, while it is true that the average standard of living in the US is much higher than the average standard of living in Africa, most poor Americans are worse off than most rich Africans.

So it's by no means certain that a black person will be better off in the US than in Africa. It depends on what he is in the US and what he would be in Africa.

Of course that applies to a white American and a black African too. There are many poor white Americans and many millionaire black Africans.


First of all, I prefer collective reparations, based on nationalizing the means of production currently owned by the descendants of the colonial oppressors.

Second, as a general principle, the difficulty in carrying out justice is not an acceptable argument against justice.

True but many members of the working class are descendents of the slave owners so they may not be too happy about that.

Obviously the second part is true but if you go by that principle every human being has had an ancestor who was wronged by the ancestor of someone else. For instance the Japanese government has not repartriated the comfort women although we (the US) have repatriated the detained Japanese-Americans.

[Conquer or Die]

I did not defend slavery! What I did say was that Nat Turner's rebellion was immoral and in the long run bad for the abolitionist movement.

Your argument defends slavery and racism. I addressed your argument and you didn't respond. You still are a racist piece of shit.