View Full Version : Burning cars
Kukulofori
27th July 2009, 16:19
Is there some revolutionary reason for burning cars during riots, or is it just because burning shit is cool and we get caught up in the moment?
Bright Banana Beard
27th July 2009, 16:20
It is cool, you know? We burning the capitalist material to the ground.
Pogue
27th July 2009, 16:29
Burning cars form good barricades.
BobKKKindle$
27th July 2009, 16:33
Burning cars form good barricades.
But you can't make love behind a barricade of burning cars...
Sasha
27th July 2009, 16:33
well if you drag them into the street and put them upside down before you lite them they make a good baricade...
òr you use them offcourse in a "terror" campaing against gentrification like is hapening in berlin: http://www.brennende-autos.de/
Pogue
27th July 2009, 16:34
But you can't make love behind a barricade of burning cars...
We could always try?
*Viva La Revolucion*
27th July 2009, 16:55
We could always try?
:laugh: ''Your sex is on fire''. No really, it is.
A riot just isn't a riot without a couple of burning cars and let's not forget the stuff throwing. You always have to throw some stuff...preferably debris and rocks...also on fire.
In all honesty, I've never been to that kind of riot. My life doesn't feel complete. I always go the the peaceful events.
Pogue
27th July 2009, 16:59
:laugh: ''Your sex is on fire''. No really, it is.
A riot just isn't a riot without a couple of burning cars and let's not forget the stuff throwing. You always have to throw some stuff...preferably debris and rocks...also on fire.
In all honesty, I've never been to that kind of riot. My life doesn't feel complete. I always go the the peaceful events.
Your missing out.
*Viva La Revolucion*
27th July 2009, 17:13
:( What am I missing out on? (apart from sex behind a barricade of burning cars and throwing fiery objects).
Pogue
27th July 2009, 17:17
The sex is a big part, the burning cars nad throwing shit is fun too, but the best bit is the fist fights with coppers.
people stay on OP's question, but anw, it seems that its answered already, that they are good barricades.
Too bad we never had the chance to set one down here:(
Fuserg9:star:
Black Sheep
27th July 2009, 20:49
people stay on OP's question, but anw, it seems that its answered already
Wait, what?
Was that supposed to be a serious answer?
Wait, what?
Was that supposed to be a serious answer?
Yeah.Do you deny that they are good barricades?The OP dont asks if it is "good" or not, but whats their point, and their point is that they make good barricades, really serious answer.;)
Fuserg9:star:
ArrowLance
27th July 2009, 21:21
Is there some revolutionary reason for burning cars during riots, or is it just because burning shit is cool and we get caught up in the moment?
Some stuff that has already been said. They are cool, form good barricades, are a good aphrodisiac and, i will add, alert fellow rioters to where the action is.
They are good barricades.
The barricades the police use can be used to good effect as well, I'm not sure if posting this is an amazing idea but here goes nothing:
http://thisamthispm.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/protest-g20_86201b2.jpg
TheCultofAbeLincoln
27th July 2009, 21:32
It depends. Maybe in Europe where a car is luxury by definition but in the US I'd recommend against it. People need their cars here. Also, barricades aren't going to work, even if they are burning. It's just an adolescent pyrotechnics thing if you did it here.
ArrowLance
27th July 2009, 21:34
It depends. Maybe in Europe where a car is luxury by definition but in the US I'd recommend against it. People need their cars here. Also, barricades aren't going to work, even if they are burning. It's just an adolescent pyrotechnics thing if you did it here.
People can, catch a cab, use i bike, take a walk or ride the bus. There are plenty of alternative options to owning a car. Many of them much more eco-friendly and money saving.
People can, catch a cab, use i bike, take a walk or ride the bus. There are plenty of alternative options to owning a car. Many of them much more eco-friendly and money saving.
Are you for real? The US is too spread out for any of those solutions to be viable in many places. Where I live there are no buses, nowhere you can bike (mostly highways) it'd take over two hours to walk to the nearest grocery store here (and you couldn't carry many groceries back home with you).
All that said, it's relatively unlikely for there to be that sort of a riot here, but I wouldn't set any cars on fire that didn't belong to the police in the US. Destroying the livelihood of working class people shouldn't be at the top of your list of things to do as a socialist.
ArrowLance
27th July 2009, 21:57
All that said, it's relatively unlikely for there to be that sort of a riot here, but I wouldn't set any cars on fire that didn't belong to the police in the US. Destroying the livelihood of working class people shouldn't be at the top of your list of things to do as a socialist.
What if its a nice car that obviously belongs to a middle class prick.
What if its a nice car that obviously belongs to a middle class prick.
How nice of a car? I have a nice car right now, but if I lost it I wouldn't be able to work and I don't have the means to replace it. I'm certainly lucky to have it, it was purchased with money that somebody in my extended family had put away for me for when I really needed it, but now that fund is dried up and I'd be completely trapped without my car.
Edit:
Besides, is the "middle class" (what does that even mean?) really our enemy or is the bourgeoisie?
ArrowLance
27th July 2009, 22:15
How nice of a car? I have a nice car right now, but if I lost it I wouldn't be able to work and I don't have the means to replace it. I'm certainly lucky to have it, it was purchased with money that somebody in my extended family had put away for me for when I really needed it, but now that fund is dried up and I'd be completely trapped without my car.
Edit:
Besides, is the "middle class" (what does that even mean?) really our enemy or is the bourgeoisie?
The middle class may not be our enemy, but they are far from our allies. Which makes them worthy of being trashed. The middle class refers to managers, business men, sometimes teachers, and i would put some professionals in this class as well.
StalinFanboy
27th July 2009, 22:23
Are you for real? The US is too spread out for any of those solutions to be viable in many places. Where I live there are no buses, nowhere you can bike (mostly highways) it'd take over two hours to walk to the nearest grocery store here (and you couldn't carry many groceries back home with you).
All that said, it's relatively unlikely for there to be that sort of a riot here, but I wouldn't set any cars on fire that didn't belong to the police in the US. Destroying the livelihood of working class people shouldn't be at the top of your list of things to do as a socialist.
If you live in an area in the US where cars absolutely necessary to survival (like where I live), chances are there won't be any riots any time soon. Riots usually only happen in major urban areas.
StalinFanboy
27th July 2009, 22:24
The middle class may not be our enemy, but they are far from our allies. Which makes them worthy of being trashed. The middle class refers to managers, business men, sometimes teachers, and i would put some professionals in this class as well.
There is no such thing as "middle class." At least not in the Marxist sense.
If you live in an area in the US where cars absolutely necessary to survival (like where I live), chances are there won't be any riots any time soon. Riots usually only happen in major urban areas.
Which I mentioned, and I agree with, it's relatively unlikely.
The middle class may not be our enemy, but they are far from our allies. Which makes them worthy of being trashed. The middle class refers to managers, business men, sometimes teachers, and i would put some professionals in this class as well.Fair enough, by that definition.
StalinFanboy
27th July 2009, 22:37
Which I mentioned, and I agree with, it's relatively unlikely. Didn't read the whole topic :P
Fair enough, by that definition.
How is that definition even remotely logical? Teachers are always working class, by definition. Managers are bourgeois. What the fuck is a "business man" or "professional?" Such vague terms.
How is that definition even remotely logical? Teachers are always working class, by definition. Managers are bourgeois. What the fuck is a "business man" or "professional?" Such vague terms.
I said his conclusion was fair enough if you're using that definition. I didn't say I agreed with that definition.
Some "teachers" can make a whole lot of money and have access to capital if they're high-profile professors...which I'm assuming is what he meant when he said "some teachers"
Revy
27th July 2009, 22:53
Is there some revolutionary reason for burning cars during riots, or is it just because burning shit is cool and we get caught up in the moment?
It's still emitting CO2 into the atmosphere, I would say, especially if it's burning.:)
*Viva La Revolucion*
27th July 2009, 23:14
The middle class may not be our enemy, but they are far from our allies. Which makes them worthy of being trashed. The middle class refers to managers, business men, sometimes teachers, and i would put some professionals in this class as well.
No, it doesn't make them worthy of being trashed. Not all of them are the bourgeoisie. I'd never burn a teacher's car unless they also happened to be running a local BNP branch or if they were a KKK member. That said, there is one guy I know who fits into your 'middle class' category and I'd love to burn his car. He owns and manages a PR firm and also ran as a local candidate for the tories. Under his 'heroes' he has Margaret Thatcher and Duncan Bannatyne. Kill him.
Revy
27th July 2009, 23:18
I doubt anyone in a riot knows the political affiliations of the car they are trashing. Because it's a riot.
Pogue
27th July 2009, 23:55
In fairness I recognise riots are largely useless because they don't focus energy where it could do something.
Kukulofori
28th July 2009, 00:14
I also remember hearing something about the flames diffusing the tear gas that the cops use.
On the question of hurting working class people, it's obvious that the revolution is going to cause a lot of short term suffering for a lot of working class people. If you're serious you can't really care about that.
It depends. Maybe in Europe where a car is luxury by definition but in the US I'd recommend against it. People need their cars here. Also, barricades aren't going to work, even if they are burning. It's just an adolescent pyrotechnics thing if you did it here.
Actually barricades have proven to be very effective in breaking up police formations to make them easier to encircle them, also police APCs tend to unload when faced with a barricade, that has allowed for rioters to torch many police APCs as they open up in front of the barricades.
Burning barricades have proven to be even more effective as it prevent police on foot to jump the barricade and the police then requires bulldozers to clear the barricade that is a problem if all the bulldozers in the area are lined up on the other side of the barricade in the hands of the rioters.
ArrowLance
28th July 2009, 00:54
Didn't read the whole topic :P
How is that definition even remotely logical? Teachers are always working class, by definition. Managers are bourgeois. What the fuck is a "business man" or "professional?" Such vague terms.
Some professors are not even remotely proletariat. Managers are not bourgeois, the do not own the means of production. Business men are those guys in suits that don't really do anything in the company, sometimes they visit other businesses and the such, think of them as high level managers. Professionals are people with degrees like doctors and scientists.
I'm sorry if you had no idea what these terms meant, but they are not vague.
ArrowLance
28th July 2009, 00:56
No, it doesn't make them worthy of being trashed. Not all of them are the bourgeoisie. I'd never burn a teacher's car unless they also happened to be running a local BNP branch or if they were a KKK member. That said, there is one guy I know who fits into your 'middle class' category and I'd love to burn his car. He owns and manages a PR firm and also ran as a local candidate for the tories. Under his 'heroes' he has Margaret Thatcher and Duncan Bannatyne. Kill him.
SOME teachers. And yes, since the middle class is in general against revolution it does make them worthy of being trashed.
RedRise
28th July 2009, 12:33
Define middle class?
What if someone was born into 'middle' or 'upper' class but supported the riot? Would you trash their car? Even if my parents got tons of promotions and I was suddenly rich I would still support the revolution - and riot if I got the chance.:) Unfortunately nothing that involves burning cars and fist fights with coppers ever happens where I live.:(
Fictional
28th July 2009, 12:48
We could always try?
How do you propose that?
Person A: "So, we're probably going to get beaten to death by the pigs over there, wanna' have sex before?"
Person B: "Ugh, sure - but where?"
Person A: "There's a car over there!"
Person B: "...It's on fire?"
Person A: "It'll be fun, I promise!"
I just don't get it O,o
Sasha
28th July 2009, 17:04
http://thisamthispm.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/protest-g20_86201b2.jpg
looks like that the pigs got an secret jedi master in their midst.
"elevate barier with will power and focused handpalm you must" :cool:
Pogue
28th July 2009, 17:20
How do you propose that?
Person A: "So, we're probably going to get beaten to death by the pigs over there, wanna' have sex before?"
Person B: "Ugh, sure - but where?"
Person A: "There's a car over there!"
Person B: "...It's on fire?"
Person A: "It'll be fun, I promise!"
I just don't get it O,o
The state is burning, capitalism is gone, lets have hot, REALLY HOT, sex, now, you me, behind this barricade.
See?
Mindtoaster
28th July 2009, 18:14
Its fun as hell, aslong as you are only burning the expensive looking cars and cop vehicles.
No need to fuck over some working class guy who left his rust bucket near your barricade
Durruti's Ghost
28th July 2009, 18:37
On the question of hurting working class people, it's obvious that the revolution is going to cause a lot of short term suffering for a lot of working class people. If you're serious you can't really care about that.
True, but a riot is not necessarily THE revolution. There's no need to cause a lot of short-term suffering when you're not actually overthrowing capitalism in the process. Even if you were, it doesn't really make sense for the proletariat to shoot itself in the foot by torching its own cars, especially if there are cop or bourgeois cars nearby that would serve the purpose equally well.
*Red*Alert
28th July 2009, 18:49
They make good barriers, and if you get hungry facing off the cops you can always roast the marshmallows which you expropriated from a local capitalist business! :thumbup1:
I mean, whats better than a petrol bomb? A 1.5 ton burning hulk of metal.
Pogue
28th July 2009, 18:55
A riot is a demonstration of anger. I wouldn't say I support riots, because they just mean we get nicked or killed stupidly, I do support active demonstrations that defend themselves. I think the line of difference is blurred mainly because alot of legitimate protests are described as riots and also because sometimes riots are simply protests lacking a solid direction or tactic. I'm not opposed to setting up barricades and street fighting I just think it should be done when its neccesary and for a purpose.
The Ungovernable Farce
28th July 2009, 19:03
What about the poll tax riot? To me, that was definitely a riot, it was definitely justified and it achieved stuff.
Pogue
28th July 2009, 19:05
I'd say it was a protest, because it was directed. But the Pol Tax riot alone wasn't what stopped the poll tax. I'd say it was simply a protest that used the right tactics. Hence how riot and protest can be very close, but one has connotations the other doesnt.
The Ungovernable Farce
28th July 2009, 19:21
I think you're coming close to circular reasoning here. Of course, if you're going to say that any riot that has a motive or achieves anything is no longer a riot, then no riot's ever achieved anything. Ultimately, I think as revolutionaries we need to support anything that increases working-class confidence and solidarity, and I think riots can do that.
MilitantWorker
28th July 2009, 19:26
I'd like to see ya'll burn my car..
what type of anti worker bullshit is this...... you can't tell how someone relates to the means of production by the vehicle theyre driving. period. not as long as we have credit cards and loan sharks...and the black market
rioting, violent demonstrations, none of this shit is revolutionary.....why dont you guys go throw eggs at cars and tp some houses?
Pogue
28th July 2009, 19:29
I think you're coming close to circular reasoning here. Of course, if you're going to say that any riot that has a motive or achieves anything is no longer a riot, then no riot's ever achieved anything. Ultimately, I think as revolutionaries we need to support anything that increases working-class confidence and solidarity, and I think riots can do that.
What I am saying is theres some confusion on what a riot excactly is. It implies violence and chaos. I don't support random violence, I support coordinated violence and self defence. Its more I oppose 'chaotic riots' over organised, directed riots. So it depends on what is rioted against, how and by who.
rioting, violent demonstrations, none of this shit is revolutionary.....why dont you guys go throw eggs at cars and tp some houses?
I guess that you don't regard the situation in Greece as revolutionary.
Puritan!
Revy
28th July 2009, 22:22
I'd like to see ya'll burn my car..
what type of anti worker bullshit is this...... you can't tell how someone relates to the means of production by the vehicle theyre driving. period. not as long as we have credit cards and loan sharks...and the black market
rioting, violent demonstrations, none of this shit is revolutionary.....why dont you guys go throw eggs at cars and tp some houses?
Trotsky said it best:
"The American temperament is energetic and violent, and it will insist on breaking a good many dishes and upsetting a good many apple carts before communism is firmly established."
Kukulofori
28th July 2009, 22:43
More info on the poll tax riots?
Pogue
28th July 2009, 22:44
its well known look it up on google
ArrowLance
28th July 2009, 23:07
I'd like to see ya'll burn my car..
what type of anti worker bullshit is this...... you can't tell how someone relates to the means of production by the vehicle theyre driving. period. not as long as we have credit cards and loan sharks...and the black market
rioting, violent demonstrations, none of this shit is revolutionary.....why dont you guys go throw eggs at cars and tp some houses?
Then don't buy a nice car, class traitor. :lol:
Fictional
5th August 2009, 12:48
The state is burning, capitalism is gone, lets have hot, REALLY HOT, sex, now, you me, behind this barricade.
See?
*Shrug* works for me.
BabylonHoruv
5th August 2009, 16:31
It depends. Maybe in Europe where a car is luxury by definition but in the US I'd recommend against it. People need their cars here. Also, barricades aren't going to work, even if they are burning. It's just an adolescent pyrotechnics thing if you did it here.
Cars are even more a symbol of oppression in the US than in Europe. Aim for the more expensive ones and SUV's when possible though.
BabylonHoruv
5th August 2009, 16:34
Didn't read the whole topic :P
How is that definition even remotely logical? Teachers are always working class, by definition. Managers are bourgeois. What the fuck is a "business man" or "professional?" Such vague terms.
Managers are not Bourgeoisie. They manage the means of production for the capitalists, they don't have any more real control than the workers do.
brigadista
6th August 2009, 20:39
Cars are even more a symbol of oppression in the US than in Europe. Aim for the more expensive ones and SUV's when possible though.
oh really? well how am i supposed to transport my disabled relative? on a bike? and public transport is shit and unaccessible..
BabylonHoruv
6th August 2009, 20:43
oh really? well how am i supposed to transport my disabled relative? on a bike? and public transport is shit and unaccesible..
So for now use a car. And if it gets torched in a riot get money from the insurance companies.
Cars have been one of the major components in destroying American communities and local, sustainable businesses however. The use of individual automobiles is completely unsustainable both environmentally and financially. The only reason it is close to affordable in the industrialized world is because of massive government spending creating and upkeeping the public roadways.
Pogue
6th August 2009, 22:19
They make good barriers, and if you get hungry facing off the cops you can always roast the marshmallows which you expropriated from a local capitalist business! :thumbup1:
I mean, whats better than a petrol bomb? A 1.5 ton burning hulk of metal.
in fairness if you were fighting in nothern ireland you'd be fighting against the government of which the party you are in is a leading component, so maybe you should just brick yourself for the revolution.
Lyev
6th August 2009, 23:05
Some professors are not even remotely proletariat. Managers are not bourgeois, the do not own the means of production. Business men are those guys in suits that don't really do anything in the company, sometimes they visit other businesses and the such, think of them as high level managers. Professionals are people with degrees like doctors and scientists.
I'm sorry if you had no idea what these terms meant, but they are not vague.
My dad's a doctor, I can't help the job he has so does that my mean I'm not allowed to be a marxist? And how is he exploiting people? Why should his car be burnt?
brigadista
6th August 2009, 23:30
i think in a revolution doctors will be essential somehow....
ArrowLance
7th August 2009, 00:08
My dad's a doctor, I can't help the job he has so does that my mean I'm not allowed to be a marxist? And how is he exploiting people? Why should his car be burnt?
In general, the middle class have no interest in the revolution and are very reactionary. And anyone who is not a friend to the revolution, is a friend of the bourgeoisie.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2020 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.