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View Full Version : revolutionary defeatism vs social patriotism



Black Sheep
22nd July 2009, 13:29
A concept made most prominent by Vladimir Lenin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin) in World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I), Revolutionary Defeatism is based on the Marxist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism) idea of class struggle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_struggle). Arguing that the proletariat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletariat) could not win or gain in a capitalist war, Lenin declared its true enemy is the imperialist leaders who sent their lower classes into battle. Workers would gain more from their own nations' defeats, he argued, if the war could be turned into civil war and then international revolution.
Initially rejected by all but the more radical at the socialist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism) Zimmerwald Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerwald_Conference) in 1915, the concept appears to have gained support from more and more socialists, especially in Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia) in 1917, after it was forcefully reaffirmed in Lenin's April Theses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin%27s_April_Theses) and Russia's war losses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_%28World_War_I%29) continued.
Revolutionary defeatism can be contrasted, using Lenin's terminology, to "revolutionary defencism" and to social patriotism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_patriotism).



Social Patriotism is an openly patriotic standpoint which combines patriotism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism) with socialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism). It was first identified at the outset of the First World War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World_War) when a majority of Social Democrats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democracy) opted to support the war efforts of their respective governments and abandoned socialist internationalism and workers solidarity.

thoughts / comments?

ComradeOm
22nd July 2009, 13:51
What's the question? Or is anyone seriously going to argue that Lenin was wrong on this issue? It was after all one of the few in history that has united European revolutionaries of all stripes

mykittyhasaboner
22nd July 2009, 14:17
Lenin was pretty much on point there....social patriotism reeks of reactionary shit.

Die Neue Zeit
22nd July 2009, 14:32
What's the question? Or is anyone seriously going to argue that Lenin was wrong on this issue? It was after all one of the few in history that has united European revolutionaries of all stripes

"On this issue" and "one of the few in history" are important words. They highlight the context in which revolutionary defeatism was valid: the protracted WWI.

I have two Theory threads on the limitations of revolutionary defeatism:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/republican-socialism-imperialism-t113465/index.html
http://www.revleft.com/vb/revolutionary-defeatism-revolutionary-t108090/index.html