When Will the "Revolution" Happen in the USA?

[Richard Nixon]

When do you think the Revolution will happen in the USA. My Answer: Never and I'm willing to bet on it.

[Bright Banana Beard]

No state exists forever. It will happens and that is inevitable. Only time will tell.

[Pogue]

I see no reason why it wont happen, seeing as the working class is international, but to say excactly when is ridiculous, we don't hold magical skills allowing us to look into the future.

[Richard Nixon]

No state exists forever. It will happens and that is inevitable. Only time will tell.

Doesn't that mean that the communist state after the Revolution will fall also? ;)

[Pogue]

Doesn't that mean that the communist state after the Revolution will fall also? ;)

Except communist state is a contradiction in terms.

Do your homework.

[Jack]

Tommorow, keep it on the DL.

[Richard Nixon]

Except communist state is a contradiction in terms.

Do your homework.

Alright, ideal, speculative, communism is a "post-state" but do you think this society, system will fall or at least evolve something radically different?

[Pogue]

Alright, ideal, speculative, communism is a "post-state" but do you think this society, system will fall or at least evolve something radically different?

I don't see what it could evolve into. We have to guard agaisnt counter-revolution obviously. But the abolition of class is the end of class conflict and class conflict has been the main force for social change throughout history. Communism is classlessness so I don't see how it could change unless there was a reaction.

[Bud Struggle]

When do you think the Revolution will happen in the USA. My Answer: Never and I'm willing to bet on it.

:mellow:

Not taking you bet. Or rather the worldwide revolution already happened--lots of countries ventured toward Communism--they threatened to take over the world and then in a flash they were gone.

All over, the world grew up. Communism is now like the The Raj, the Plymoth, the Varsity Rag--all yesterday's news. Communism at its best was a happy thought of the innocent and the hopeful. Nothing wrong with that.

But time moves on.

[Pogue]

:mellow:

Not taking you bet. Or rather the worldwide revolution already happened--lots of countries ventured toward Communism--they threatened to take over the world and then in a flash they were gone.

All over, the world grew up. Communism is now like the The Raj, the Plymoth, the Varsity Rag--all yesterday's news. Communism at its best was a happy thought of the innocent and the hopeful. Nothing wrong with that.

But time moves on.

This is such a simplistic analysis of history but I'd expect that from you, you have consistently proven you are not willing to learn on this board, instead you just repeat the same mindless mantra about how we have to move on.

Move on to what? Have classes suddenly disappeared? Have all the communists suddenly disappeared? Is capitalism not destroying the world anymore?

I expect you to come back with more empty shit of the sorts that politicians or worse the fucking Pope puts out, loads of words but with little meaning not backed up in action.

[9]

I don't know when it will happen, but if things continue at the present pace, it won’t be in my lifetime. I must say that I disagree to an extent with those here who suggest that "the revolution is inevitable". I think, not necessarily in these particular cases, but in many cases, such an 'inevitability' argument serves as a scapegoat or a way to avoid any introspection or consideration of what needs to be done if a revolution is to occur. I think we can all agree that the American revolutionary Left is in dismal shape, so to me, the suggestion that ‘it doesn’t matter, revolution is inevitable’ just feels like a very far cry from the reality ‘on the ground’ (as its said). I think a very serious and widespread conversation needs to begin occurring about ditching the old figureheads and idols (in image, not necessarily in theory) and experimenting with new modes of propaganda and consciousness-raising. We need to be creative. If the Left continues to allow itself to be weighed down by the imagery of old idols and titles that the broader proletariat is hostile to, we are only hurting our own cause. It is high time we try something new, or else the revolution to the American left will be much like the second coming to the Christian fundamentalists – some ridiculous ancient mythology that speaks of “better times” which we use to comfort ourselves when things are not going our way, instead of actively seeking out ways to improve the situation in the present.

[Bud Struggle]

Have classes suddenly disappeared? YES!


Have all the communists suddenly disappeared? YES!


Is capitalism not destroying the world anymore?That's a matter of opinion.


I expect you to come back with more empty shit of the sorts that politicians or worse the fucking Pope puts out, loads of words but with little meaning not backed up in action.

HLVS--look around; there is a NEW Capitalist's class that is undistinguishable from the working class. We Bourgeoise look more and more like workers and the workers try more and more to act like the Bourgeoise. Ever go to a factory's parking lot? Can you see the owner's car? Can you see the workers' car? The worker's nowadays have better cars than the owner. Always. I drive a Jeep--but there are plenty of BMW's in my parking lot. Who's the Bourgeoise?

You want to be us and we want to be you.

We are all one.

[Richard Nixon]

Propaganda? I distrust that word a lot, as it implies deception and/or outright lying to encourage a political movements. You believe what you say are rights-then do so, just keep stating the facts to the working class. No need for false or deceptive propaganda.

[9]

Propaganda? I distrust that word a lot, as it implies deception and/or outright lying to encourage a political movements. You believe what you say are rights-then do so, just keep stating the facts to the working class. No need for false or deceptive propaganda.

I was using it in its original sense, not in the sense of false information used to deceive people.

prop·a·gan·dahttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/ahd4WAV/P0597900/propaganda) (prŏp'ə-gān'də)
n.

The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause

[Pogue]

YES!


I still know loads of people who sell their labour to an employing class.


That's a matter of opinion.


I don't think it is but thats another argument.


This is a board for communists so clearly we havent disappeared.


HLVS--look around; there is a NEW Capitalist's class that is undistinguishable from the working class.

I got sacked form my job not long ago because the owners of the company wanted to make more money. There was very little I could do about this.


We Bourgeoise look more and more like workers and the workers try more and more to act like the Bourgeoise.

Yes, I'm sure the naked slum dwelling Nigerian children drinking water filled with their own shit whose parents work in factories for multi-national companies in 16 hour shifts look very similar to yourself and Bill Gates.


Ever go to a factory's parking lot? Can you see the owner's car? Can you see the workers' car? The worker's nowadays have better cars than the owner.

Do you honestly expect me to take this seriously? So I'm meant to go to a ficticious car park, see how nice some workers car is, see its better than a ficticious bosses car and suddenly capitalism is wonderful and working and class has been destroyed? Once more, do you think the Nigerian factory workers have nice cars than their bosses when 75% of their money goes into paying the rent for their crumbling house?

That is such an absolutely fucking scandalous argument I feel insulted you'd make it. I had to fucking walk to work everyday and I lost my job like that. I wonder how the CEO got around, Tom.



We are all one.


So why did me and laods of my mates get the chop in order to boost the profit of the company whilst the people on the board make millions? Why is it that working class people get recruited to the army to go murder other working class people whilst the people benefiting from the wars don't lift a finger? Why is it that the majority of some female employees in Nike factories in East Asia are raped by the foremen and the bosses refuse to deal with this, at times actively encouraging it?

If we're all one, why does Adidas's CEO take home millions of dollars a year whilst the average wage for one of the 12 year old worker's he employs can expect to earn the equivalent of 50p a day?

If we're all one, why is it that there are delapidated northern towns full of broken communities? Why did Thatcher break the miner's strike? Why was Greece in flames throughout the winter?

We are all one, thats is the most absolutelty ridiculous and moronic thing I have ever heard, you have reached new depths of patheticness.

[Seodanrot]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../showthread.php?p=1490794#post1490794)
Have classes suddenly disappeared?
YES!
No as long as there is rich and poor there will always be classes open your fucking eyes

Quote:
Have all the communists suddenly disappeared?
YES!
No they are your neighbors maybe some are your friends perhaps hiding their political view in a closet

Quote:
Is capitalism not destroying the world anymore?
That's a matter of opinion.
The Second I see people off the streets is the second I'll say it's not destory if not ruining the world

Quote:
I expect you to come back with more empty shit of the sorts that politicians or worse the fucking Pope puts out, loads of words but with little meaning not backed up in action.
HLVS--look around; there is a NEW Capitalist's class that is undistinguishable from the working class. We Bourgeoise look more and more like workers and the workers try more and more to act like the Bourgeoise. Ever go to a factory's parking lot? Can you see the owner's car? Can you see the workers' car? The worker's nowadays have better cars than the owner. Always. You want to be us and we want to be you.
Looks like he was right. lmao

[Demogorgon]

It is hard to say, could be a very long time. Or it could be sooner. The thing that strikes me is how far behind much of the rest of the Western World America is in terms of political and social progress. Democratic reforms and types of social welfare taken for granted most places were never implemented in America. In a way that makes it almost like France before the revolution there, lagging behind comparable countries in terms of political development and as a result it was the first to go.

That is no guarantee the same thing will happen in America. There is a lot of built in reaction there and people tend to be more nationalistic which makes class consciousness harder, so it could be that it won't change until developments in the rest of the world make it necessary, but time will change.

One thing is for sure, nothing stays the same forever, the status quo cannot remain.

[Rosa Provokateur]

It will happen when you decide to stop waiting on mass movements and go live like the revolution is here.

[mykittyhasaboner]

It will happen when you decide to stop waiting on mass movements and go live like the revolution is here.
Sorry, there's something called capitalism standing in my way.

When will you stop?

[Rosa Provokateur]

Sorry, there's something called capitalism standing in my way.

When will you stop?

Capitalism sucks but cant stop you from squatting, starting a co-op, creating situations where you can truly experience freedom at it's purest forms.

Say what you want about means of production but I could honestly care less about it, could bomb a quarter of the factories and I'd be content. It all comes down to freedom, anything that takes away from that emphesis is superfluous.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Capitalism sucks but cant stop you from squatting, starting a co-op, creating situations where you can truly experience freedom at it's purest forms.
No you cant, obviously you are completely retracted from reality. There are things that exist precisely to stop people from enjoying their deserved freedom, its called private and unequal ownership of wealth, the capitalist state, oh yeah and a lot of guns and bombs.


Say what you want about means of production but I could honestly care less about it, could bomb a quarter of the factories and I'd be content. It all comes down to freedom, anything that takes away from that emphesis is superfluous.
Here's where you completely ignore history, well, that's kind of every where in your posts, isn't it?

If you took a second to think about it, what is the foremost reason why you can enjoy the "freedom" you talk about? Technological progress, and the increasing socialization of production; the first time humans had anything more than they needed, a surplus, was when technology made it able for humans to develop an ever growing surplus, thus humans could now have leisure/non-working time as well as the ability to own/distribute the surplus (as well as the very production of this surplus of goods) in a certain way. This further development of society is what gives you the ability to even think about freedom; and it's a shame you could care less about factories being bombed, since many people's freedom will be taken from them by the necessity to rebuild them.

[Rosa Provokateur]

No you cant, obviously you are completely retracted from reality. There are things that exist precisely to stop people from enjoying their deserved freedom, its called private and unequal ownership of wealth, the capitalist state, oh yeah and a lot of guns and bombs.


Here's where you completely ignore history, well, that's kind of every where in your posts, isn't it?

If you took a second to think about it, what is the foremost reason why you can enjoy the "freedom" you talk about? Technological progress, and the increasing socialization of production; the first time humans had anything more than they needed, a surplus, was when technology made it able for humans to develop an ever growing surplus, thus humans could now have leisure/non-working time as well as the ability to own/distribute the surplus (as well as the very production of this surplus of goods) in a certain way. This further development of society is what gives you the ability to even think about freedom; and it's a shame you could care less about factories being bombed, since many people's freedom will be taken from them by the necessity to rebuild them.

Pssh. Any State is bad, capitalist and communist alike; I can see where the guns and bombs might be a problem... point taken.

Why would I want to think about freedom? I'd much rather spend my time living it. Who said they had to rebuild it, all it'll do is fuck up the sky.

[Manifesto]

It should be NOW!

[Revy]

Less than 10 years from now, maybe even within 5 years if we're lucky.

I've heard some ridiculously pessimistic views, like it happening 50 years from now, sorry, I don't think so :lol:

But then again, the revolution obviously isn't going to happen tomorrow.

[More Fire for the People]

I give it 5 to 150 years.

[Bright Banana Beard]

I say December 12, 2012.

Nah, but within 150 years.

[9]

I've heard some ridiculously pessimistic views, like it happening 50 years from now, sorry, I don't think so :lol:


50 years is pessimistic to you?
Not trying to rain on your parade or anything, but think about the sixties - the protests, the mass movements. I'm sure if the revolutionary left had been asked in the sixties when they thought the revolution would be, they'd say "any day now". But 50 years later, no revolution. In fact, not even any mass movements, really. The revolutionary left, since the sixties, has regressed to a nearly-inaudible murmur. I'd wager that, probably in the entire history of the American revolutionary left, now is the time when it is at its weakest. And this is not me being pessimistic, I have no interest in pessimism - this is, in my view, a very levelheaded evaluation of the situation. To me, the suggestion that a revolution will occur in 50 years is optimistic, but five to ten... that just seems like the voice of mania.
In all honesty, I'm just baffled how one could possibly think, circumstances being as they are on the left, that a revolution might occur in five to ten years..? What is the logic behind this?
To use this analogy again, I feel like the revolutionary left in America is behaving with regard to "the inevitable revolution" like the fundamentalist Christians behave with regard to "the inevitable second coming". Like we are in the "end times" or something, and we can just wait it out because the whole thing is gonna come crashing down on its own any time now.
I just don't think its that simple. Not at all. I don't think things just happen, I think we have to cause them to happen. That for us to practically consider even the slightest possibility that we may live to witness anything close to the early stages of revolution, we need to at the very least have built up a respectable working class movement - and such a movement does not presently exist. Again, most of the population doesn't even seem to be aware that the revolutionary left exists. So, clearly, our perceptions of the state of the country's revolutionary left are on polar opposite sides of the spectrum.
And if any of what I'm saying is coming across as arrogant or condescending, I am not intending it that way at all, I am just honestly very surprised by your thoughts on this.
My question, then, is what makes you think that the revolutionary left, the working class, and the population at large are presently (or very soon to be) in any position to bring about revolution? What do you see the broader proletariat doing that convinces you that they're organized, with revolutionary-consciousness, preparing to usher in an imminent revolution?
I just don't see it. At all.:confused:

[Manifesto]

So you do not think there will be a revolution or that we must do and organize protests?

[9]

So you do not think there will be a revolution or that we must do and organize protests?

I think that the revolution is not something detached from human action, as is often the context in which its talked about. On the contrary, I think it is directly contingent on the success of the revolutionary left in disseminating its ideas, making itself known, raising consciousness of the failures (hidden in plain sight) of capitalism and consumerism among the broader proletariat, and becoming increasingly active within working class communities to help organize (and, if necessary, to help arm) the working class in general. It is not a given that a revolution is imminent, and it is certainly not a given, should a revolution occur, that it will be a leftist revolution. We are seeing large segments of the working class become interested in alternatives to the "status quo", and we are foolish if we fail to see that our alternative is not the only alternative being offered. Neo-Nazi and fascist organizations are gaining steam, the Libertarian Party ideology seems to be gaining steam - much of the working class seems to be looking to the far right for answers. There is a competition of ideas, and I don't want to say we are losing, but I will say that we are certainly not winning at the present time.
The revolution isn't like religion - it's not something you just have faith in - something that will come about from above and save the world; its something we have to work to bring about. All I am saying is we have a lot of work to do before we can realistically start talking about some imminent leftist revolution, because much of the American working class is outright hostile to the revolutionary left right now.
In my opinion, we need to dispose of the old imagery and idols, we need to reinvent the way we are perceived among the general proletariat, we need to consider that it is the 21st century and new tactics might be needed to spread the word and garner support. But I think this can only begin on a critical level once there has been a general acknowledgment on behalf of the revolutionary left itself that the present tactics are not working. And I worry that very few will be willing to swallow their pride and acknowledge this fact. But regardless, we at least need an open exchange of some new tactical ideas.

[F9]

2 hours, 35 minutes and 19 seconds frooooom now!
This thread is amongst the pointless ever..No one can say when it will happen, but i can assure you capies, it will come, we just "hope" its soon enough!
I will leave it open for now, even i really think it offers nothing, and if it continue on a stupid "dialog" on how many years the revolution will come etc i will close it.

Fuserg9:star:

[Rosa Provokateur]

The question isnt when it will happen but what are you doing to make it happen.

Police, taxes, the military, etc. are all obstacles standing in the way of this; what are we doing to overcome them?

Make friends with cops and convince them to retire, find loop-holes around taxes, teach people how to successfully avoid another tour of duty. Simple things like these (except for tax loop-holes, those are hard) can have great effect in getting things done.

I encourage everybody to plant seeds of rebellion in their neighborhoods and communities when and whereever possible.

[Manifesto]

2 hours, 35 minutes and 19 seconds frooooom now!
Fuserg9:star:
Isn't that from Donnie Darko?

[F9]

Isn't that from Donnie Darko?

What?:confused: Whos this?I said a totally random time!:confused:

[Bud Struggle]

As an employer of workers. As a former member of the IWW. As someone who is paying attention to such things.

Not in any forseeable future will any Revolution occur.

Honest answer.

[Pogue]

As an employer of workers. As a former member of the IWW. As someone who is paying attention to such things.

Not in any forseeable future will any Revolution occur.

Honest answer.

Thats what we want you to think.

[Bud Struggle]

Thats what we want you to think.

I must admit you are doing an EXCELLENT job fooling me. :)

[Pogue]

I must admit you are doing an EXCELLENT job fooling me. :)

thats what the tzar said...

[Bud Struggle]

thats what the tzar said...


I wish you the best--but we Barons/Capitalists/Commissar types always win in the end.

[Pogue]

I wish you the best--but we Barons/Capitalists/Commissar types always win in the end.

Feudalism lasted for a long time too Tom.

[Plagueround]

It is not the job of either the revolutionary or the reactionary to tell you when the revolution is coming. Revolutions are an almost natural occurrence, and in some way shape or form, they will happen, even American presidents have made such remarks.

Rather, it is the goal and mission of both the revolutionary and the reactionary to determine the shape, character, and outcome that the revolution will take when it does happen. Game on. ;)

[Bud Struggle]

Game on. ;)

Indeed. INDEED Comrade!

Bud Struggle
First Secretary of all Soviets

(Signed in the People's Name!)