is the american right falling apart?

[RedRooskie]

I just wanted to know what other people think but it seems like the G.O.P. in america or at least the far rightwing is breaking down once and for all. I don't want to jump to conclusions and I don't know that much yet. But the rightwing extremist seem to be going insaine with things like that holocaust museum shooting and the obortion doctor that was murdered. Is it just me or are they starting to go even more insiane then they already are? Just wanted to know what other people thought. :confused:

[el_chavista]

I think the G.O.P.'s neofascistic politic is alive in the army and in the security entities, disguised in a-shared-by-all anticommunist ideology.
Perhaps the Honduras' affair is a probe of their power, parallel to the White House official declarations.
And they has been active in propaganda and demonstrations too, through the Fox TV and the "taxday party".

[NecroCommie]

As long as america remains in the receiving end of imperialism, the popular oppinion will remain tilted towards conservatism. It is only a matter of ratios and how quickly it will come down afterwards.

So no, it is not coming down... yet...

[Il Medico]

America is the "far right wing". Some people actually think Obama is socialist and half the population fears what his "socialism" will do to the country, that just shows how far gone America is in comparison to the rest of the world. We live in the belly of the beast, get used to right wing cappie idiots.

[Comrade B]

How does it matter?
The far right is becoming more popular

In the US things seem to be going like this
The democrats have been moving slightly further to the right for the last few years, and now are about the same as the republicans of the '90s, while they have been doing this, they have been becoming more and more popular with a group of republicans tired of the growing insanity of their party.
While the center-right moves more and more right, the right has been moving rapidly into the radical right wing, supporting violence against anything left of them, and rattling their sabers relentlessly at the smallest actions of everyone retaining a bit of sanity in the world.
Though the GOP is less popular than it was before, the radical right is more popular.

[Psy]

As long as america remains in the receiving end of imperialism, the popular oppinion will remain tilted towards conservatism. It is only a matter of ratios and how quickly it will come down afterwards.

So no, it is not coming down... yet...

American workers are exploited too, in case you haven't notice this crisis has caused American workers to become militant then in the recent past. It is not the American workers that benefit from US imperialism and never has been it has always just been the capitalist class. The rise of US workers living standards during the long boom was not due to US imperialism but due to the US capitalist class being afraid of its proletariat so afraid they bought off key segments of the US working class but that was back when capitalists had a higher rate of profit.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I just wanted to know what other people think but it seems like the G.O.P. in america or at least the far rightwing is breaking down once and for all. I don't want to jump to conclusions and I don't know that much yet. But the rightwing extremist seem to be going insaine with things like that holocaust museum shooting and the obortion doctor that was murdered. Is it just me or are they starting to go even more insiane then they already are? Just wanted to know what other people thought. :confused:

I think the overall trajectory in US politics right now is to the left. When Clinton and Gore ran, "liberal" was a dirty word but now calling Obama a "Socialist" only makes the craziest of the right wing flinch. Even the mainstream is somewhat embracing full-on Keynesian - in a very half-harted way, but still a real retreat for the from full-on neoliberalism.

As for the Republicans - they are the new Democratic party. Business and Government and Military forces have basically lost faith that they can deliver for American capitalism and Imperialism. They are now backing Obama's "Realistic" approach to American Imperialism.

So the ideological right and the crazy Limbaugh ditto heads are pretty isolated now.

The threat as I see it is that they have the monopoly on economic anger right now. Since the left can not or is unable to address working class anger at the attacks on the unions and liberals are saying "Everythings fine, just give Obama some more time" - as the economy continues to flounder (and working class people take the brunt of it because of the lack of social safty nets and weak business-unionism and wage cuts) more people are going to see the right-wing's arguemnts as valid simply because they were the only audible voices saying that Obama's economic plan wouldn't work.

Hopfully working class anger will begion to assert itself in wildcat strikes or more factory occupations or protests against evictions and so on that will help pull that anger towards more left and radical demands. Right now is the time for all radicals to do whatever they can to try and build thoes voices and support the small struggles that are expressing and giving voice to working class anger.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

American workers are exploited too, in case you haven't notice this crisis has caused American workers to become militant then in the recent past. It is not the American workers that benefit from US imperialism and never has been it has always just been the capitalist class. The rise of US workers living standards during the long boom was not due to US imperialism but due to the US capitalist class being afraid of its proletariat so afraid they bought off key segments of the US working class but that was back when capitalists had a higher rate of profit.

But what did they buy off the key segments with?

You're right, American workers don't benefit directly from imperialism (i.e. American workers are not a "world bourgeoisie"), but it sure has given the ruling class some extra cash to try and diffuse class conflict. The ruling classes of Latin America don't really try and buy off their working class, principally because they don't have such excess profit to do it with, no?

[Psy]

But what did they buy off the key segments with?

You're right, American workers don't benefit directly from imperialism (i.e. American workers are not a "world bourgeoisie"), but it sure has given the ruling class some extra cash to try and diffuse class conflict. The ruling classes of Latin America don't really try and buy off their working class, principally because they don't have such excess profit to do it with, no?
The US exploits client state far more yet the capitalist class has less surplus value to buy off worker. This is because the achille's heel of capitalism is the tendency for the rate of profit to decline over time, capitalists for decades papered over the fact the rate of profit was falling with fictious capiutal this has lead the capitalists to be faced with the fact that they currently don't have any surplus value not only is huge sums of capital evaportating into thin air due it having nothing to back it but rampent over production is has caused the rate of profit to crash.

[Jimmie Higgins]

American workers are exploited too, in case you haven't notice this crisis has caused American workers to become militant then in the recent past. It is not the American workers that benefit from US imperialism and never has been it has always just been the capitalist class. The rise of US workers living standards during the long boom was not due to US imperialism but due to the US capitalist class being afraid of its proletariat so afraid they bought off key segments of the US working class but that was back when capitalists had a higher rate of profit.

Well the US ruling class granted many reforms on the one hand in the immediate post-war period, but the flip side of this was the repression of the red scare. McCarthyism attacked a lot more than just communists in the labor movement and high-profile radicals in the arts, women and blacks were kicked out of the jobs they had in the war period, gays and lesbians were fired and threatened at their jobs unless they hid their sexuality just as radicals had to hide their politics.

If the Ruling class had not combined massive repression and de-radicalization, then the reforms would have backfired and lead to more militancy just as it had in the 30s and the strike wave in 1946 suggested.

[RHIZOMES]

As long as america remains in the receiving end of imperialism, the popular oppinion will remain tilted towards conservatism. It is only a matter of ratios and how quickly it will come down afterwards.

So no, it is not coming down... yet...

So if the government is reactionary the people automatically are too?

Oh shit we're fucked!

[Revulero]

The right wing movement is actually beginning to rise in my area. The stupid useless tax tea parties are always in high attendance, the kkk white knights are now distributing hate messages and advertising themselves in public areas. Racism is reeking havoc against latinos regardless of their legal status. Hell, the G.O.P maybe losing supporters, but the right wing movement is far from collapsing. They seem more active than ever to me :(.

[ComradeOm]

The right wing movement is actually beginning to rise in my area. The stupid useless tax tea parties are always in high attendance, the kkk white knights are now distributing hate messages and advertising themselves in public areas. Racism is reeking havoc against latinos regardless of their legal status. Hell, the G.O.P maybe losing supporters, but the right wing movement is far from collapsing. They seem more active than ever to me :(.A sign of weakness. The collapse of the GOP's political fortunes (though Obama refuses to plunge the dagger in) has given rise to all sorts of reactionary fringe movements. By jerking to the right, the Republicans are sealing their demise as a major pan-conservative party. I'm sure it can't be pleasant to observe on the ground, and reactionary grassroots movements are always dangerous in an immediate sense, but it is a symptom of the splintering of the American Right

[Revulero]

A sign of weakness. The collapse of the GOP's political fortunes (though Obama refuses to plunge the dagger in) has given rise to all sorts of reactionary fringe movements. By jerking to the right, the Republicans are sealing their demise as a major pan-conservative party. I'm sure it can't be pleasant to observe on the ground, and reactionary grassroots movements are always dangerous in an immediate sense, but it is a symptom of the splintering of the American Right

Yeah this is a major sign of weakness, they seem very desperate thats why there so active and you're absolutely right when you say that it isn't pleasant. Going through it and watching it happen sure does suck.

[NecroCommie]

American workers are exploited too, in case you haven't notice this crisis has caused American workers to become militant then in the recent past. It is not the American workers that benefit from US imperialism and never has been it has always just been the capitalist class. The rise of US workers living standards during the long boom was not due to US imperialism but due to the US capitalist class being afraid of its proletariat so afraid they bought off key segments of the US working class but that was back when capitalists had a higher rate of profit.
Ofcourse I understand this, but by being the imperialists, the american bourgeoisie has the resources to "bribe" vast amounts of population. Or would you not claim that the american middle class is considerably richer and larger that that of many other regions? Besides, even the american worker fares considerably better than that of other countries. Or do you dare to claim that the third world conditions plague the american working class as well? If so, compare the slums of LA with that of Mexico city.

No, I dont claim that all is well in america, but it would be naive to think that the american majority would have the intrest to topple their rulers.

[Psy]

Ofcourse I understand this, but by being the imperialists, the american bourgeoisie has the resources to "bribe" vast amounts of population. Or would you not claim that the american middle class is considerably richer and larger that that of many other regions? Besides, even the american worker fares considerably better than that of other countries. Or do you dare to claim that the third world conditions plague the american working class as well? If so, compare the slums of LA with that of Mexico city.

No, I dont claim that all is well in america, but it would be naive to think that the american majority would have the intrest to topple their rulers.

You are ignoring the rate of profit, you can't simply look at the quantity of the profits American capitalists take in you have to compare it to how much capitalists invested and how much capital sits idle unable to find a place to be invested in. The American majority have a huge interest to topple capitalism as the American capitalists class has no choice but restore the rate of profit through squeezing every last penny of surplus value from workers. The long boom is over as is debt financed consumer spending, world capitalism has peaked and it is all downhill from now on, workers living standards can only go down from here.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Ofcourse I understand this, but by being the imperialists, the american bourgeoisie has the resources to "bribe" vast amounts of population. Or would you not claim that the american middle class is considerably richer and larger that that of many other regions? Besides, even the american worker fares considerably better than that of other countries. Or do you dare to claim that the third world conditions plague the american working class as well? If so, compare the slums of LA with that of Mexico city.

No, I dont claim that all is well in america, but it would be naive to think that the american majority would have the intrest to topple their rulers.

It's interesting that you make the exact same argument as the right-wing here does when trying to stoke nationalism. "Don't ask for more" says the right, "Sure you have it tough, but you're in the richest country in the world, good thing you don't live in Mexico".

Capitalism can't be judged on the basis of "how good someone has it" at any given time. If this alone were the criteria, then we'd have to pack it in because all people are generally richer than they were 100 years ago; if this were the criteria, then capitalism works because more people in India have running water now than at the time of independence; more people in Brazil have cars now etc.

Sure there are some well-off workers in the US, but the US also has the highest inequality of all industrial nations. CEOs make 300 or more times than their average worker here whereas Japanese CEOs make about 12x and in the UK it something like 35x.

The majority of Americans are in debt, have little access to healthcare, and we don't really have much healthcare left. 3 million people are in prisons, 1 out of 10 black people is tied up in the American injustice system to som extent, some black cities have 50% unemployment... this is what you call bought off?

As far as I'm concerned, anyone making the "bought-off" argument would have to willfully ignore all US history of the last 30 years! The time of the post-war "consensus rule" have been over for a long time now and inequality is on a Victorian-era level in the US.

[NecroCommie]

It's interesting that you make the exact same argument as the right-wing here does when trying to stoke nationalism. "Don't ask for more" says the right, "Sure you have it tough, but you're in the richest country in the world, good thing you don't live in Mexico".

Capitalism can't be judged on the basis of "how good someone has it" at any given time. If this alone were the criteria, then we'd have to pack it in because all people are generally richer than they were 100 years ago; if this were the criteria, then capitalism works because more people in India have running water now than at the time of independence; more people in Brazil have cars now etc.

Sure there are some well-off workers in the US, but the US also has the highest inequality of all industrial nations. CEOs make 300 or more times than their average worker here whereas Japanese CEOs make about 12x and in the UK it something like 35x.

The majority of Americans are in debt, have little access to healthcare, and we don't really have much healthcare left. 3 million people are in prisons, 1 out of 10 black people is tied up in the American injustice system to som extent, some black cities have 50% unemployment... this is what you call bought off?

As far as I'm concerned, anyone making the "bought-off" argument would have to willfully ignore all US history of the last 30 years! The time of the post-war "consensus rule" have been over for a long time now and inequality is on a Victorian-era level in the US.
I am in no way defending imperialism or its achievments. I would most certainly like to see a revolution in the US. I simply expressed my doubts on it not happening during the age of imperialism.

I did not say "it cannot happen", or: "It should not happen". I said "it propably wont happen" The cold fact is that despite the obvious exploitation of the workers, the capitalists are still a majority in the US, and are radicalizing as we spea... write. Nationalism is fed by the very national differences I just explained, and only a portion has even considered the philosophical correctiveness of nationalism.

[Vincent P.]

America breaking apart means a big mess. A big mess means a time for big changes.

We are this change.

[Marxist Madman]

I come from a a far right wing family-> yes and no. Many people have left the Republican party; but those who have stayed have become all the more radical. I see it everyday, but while this is happening it is creating ripe conditions for Socialists to spread the word.

[Dimentio]

I just wanted to know what other people think but it seems like the G.O.P. in america or at least the far rightwing is breaking down once and for all. I don't want to jump to conclusions and I don't know that much yet. But the rightwing extremist seem to be going insaine with things like that holocaust museum shooting and the obortion doctor that was murdered. Is it just me or are they starting to go even more insiane then they already are? Just wanted to know what other people thought. :confused:

Not all right-wingers in America are a part of the right-wing of the Republican Party. The Holocaust Museum-shooter was a nazi. But it is true that there is an internal fighting within the GOP.

[n0thing]

This is probably one of the worst states the Republican party has ever been in. I wouldn't say the American right as a whole is in bad shape, since I think Obama and handful of the top democrats are at least moderate right-wingers. But for the insane ultra-nationalists like Cheney and Rumsfeld, it's dark days. Then again, it's a two party system; and Americans, whilst generally being pretty liberal, don't vote on policy. If the Republicans can pull themselves together to the extent that they can get their hands on an energising, presentable candidate by 2016, I'd give them a fair shot at it.

[Dimentio]

This is probably one of the worst states the Republican party has ever been in. I wouldn't say the American right as a whole is in bad shape, since I think Obama and handful of the top democrats are at least moderate right-wingers. But for the insane ultra-nationalists like Cheney and Rumsfeld, it's dark days. Then again, it's a two party system; and Americans, whilst generally being pretty liberal, don't vote on policy. If the Republicans can pull themselves together to the extent that they can get their hands on an energising, presentable candidate by 2016, I'd give them a fair shot at it.

It will probably be between Huckabee and Romney.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

No, the American right isn't dead.

One has to assume, no matter the correct definition of the word, that most Americans see Mr. Obama as a Leftist, or at least as a very liberal individual. He is the reaction to Mr. Bush, who is today (though perhaps not as much as yesterday) seen as a total failure by most of the population.

In the late 1970's, the GOP was even more discredited than it was in 2008, due to Mr. Nixon's transgressions. His Republican replacement, Mr. Ford, was thrown out of office by perhaps the most liberal President of the 20th Century, Jimmy Carter. That was supposed to usher in a new era of openness and all that bullshit, just as we hear today. Mr. Carter was a great guy, but a terrible political man. He lasted one term and amid the stagflation America certainly didn't look to the Left but back to the right, and the pendulum went even further than Mr. Nixon and ended with Neo-Conservatism.

I personally believe that a similiar occurrence may happen again. If the economy rumbles back during his term and growth, real economic growth, can be seen, then it is possible that Mr. Obama can permanetly move the American political axis to the Left. If not, it will swing back again, guaranteed.

[Dimentio]

I come from a a far right wing family-> yes and no. Many people have left the Republican party; but those who have stayed have become all the more radical. I see it everyday, but while this is happening it is creating ripe conditions for Socialists to spread the word.

Yes, but that is good for the democrats. A more right-wing republican party will alienate the centrist voters, those who maybe like the idea of low taxes and less social care, but totally dislikes other parts of the republican party. Yet, a more centrist republican party will probably not taste good for the large ultra-conservative petite-bourgeoisie of the South and the Heartland, and it will probably not win any votes from your radicals, who instead will move to paleocons or libertarians or christian fascists. Its a moment 22.

[Manifesto]

The American Right has been getting less popular for a long time now. Won't be long before their only support is a bunch of old people.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

I think the free-market libertarian movement is quickly taking over the "conservative" side of American politics. At least in the youth.

I'll take them over the neoconservative fascists of the GOP. Also, since they pretty much agree with us about government all we have to do is get them to hate capitalism. :D

[Small Geezer]

I personally believe that a similiar occurrence may happen again. If the economy rumbles back during his term and growth, real economic growth, can be seen, then it is possible that Mr. Obama can permanetly move the American political axis to the Left. If not, it will swing back again, guaranteed.


How likely do you think 'real' economic growth is?

I was watching Paul Krugman on hardtalk, BBC, who was saying Obamas' stimulus package may not be big enough.

Here's Jon Voight peddling lies- http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2009/06/not-all-of-hollywood-wants-to-have.html#links

[OriginalGumby]

http://socialistworker.org/2009/07/14/republican-freak-show-rolls-on

They are making themselves irrelevant but I think they will try to reinvent themselves in the future. It still is cool for the Repubs to discredit a chunk of shitty ideas for us. They may actually gain from the discontent that the Dems create in the next election however so we still need to organize to win.

[Verix]

I think the free-market libertarian movement is quickly taking over the "conservative" side of American politics. At least in the youth.

I'll take them over the neoconservative fascists of the GOP. Also, since they pretty much agree with us about government all we have to do is get them to hate capitalism. :D
Ithink the libertarian party will kill GOP in the end for better or worse, also that is true for real libertarians, but most libertarians ive heard of (like glenn beck) only support "smaller" goverment when it suites there needs, like they have no problem with gay marrage being illegal, abortion being illegal,america using its power to bully 3rd world countrys, hell ive met some who even think drugs sould stay illegal,

[Durruti's Ghost]

Ithink the libertarian party will kill GOP in the end for better or worse, also that is true for real libertarians, but most libertarians ive heard of (like glenn beck) only support "smaller" goverment when it suites there needs, like they have no problem with gay marrage being illegal, abortion being illegal,america using its power to bully 3rd world countrys, hell ive met some who even think drugs sould stay illegal,

This is probably true for the more "prominent" libertarians. However, the average self-proclaimed libertarian is far more left-wing on social issues than the Party's spokespeople.

I think that the libertarian right could be a pretty fertile recruiting ground for the far left if approached correctly. They share the anarchists' hatred of power and control; they just have to be convinced that wage slavery is as bad a form of domination as any other. A libertarian rightist is just a leftist who hasn't experienced wage slavery firsthand yet. I should know; up to a few years ago, when I got a job and started reading Proudhon, I was one of them.

[LeninKobaMao]

I don't know in the US there is apparently a rise in far right groups such as the KKK. In the 1980's the KKK lost thousands of members with the estimated membership in 1980 as low as 5,000. And the estimate in 2008 was 6,000 so they are getting bigger but very slowly.

But the more moderate American right such as the Republicans are losing their popularity rapidly after the disgraces of Bush and his friends they are losing ground.

But as a whole yes they are losing popularity.