Havet
9th July 2009, 20:59
Ok so here's the story. I got restricted and i was told it was merely because i held OI ideas even though i never manifested them outside OI. From there i proceeded to discuss the restriction policy itself. So here are my initial arguments and the counter-arguments:
actually, that doesn't sound fair at all
By what right do YOU CAPITALISTS EXPLOIT ME of my COLLECTIVE RIGHT to post in any damn thread i like?
Why do you "LANDOWNERS" think you can forbid me of my NEED to post ouside OI?
This whole website is a means of production: a means of producing and discussing information regarding communism. Why do you think you can PRIVATIZE the rules to the COLLECTIVE? To FORBID the rest of the members to have a say in the way THIS "FACTORY" is run? Just because the original founding fathers of this website voted that way, or some ELITE now gets to vote, why doesn't the MAJORITY vote for it DEMOCRATICALLY?
We website posters don't have money to pay for our website ourselves. If we did we would be website OWNERS. You REALLY need to learn the concept of INFORMATION SLAVERY. It is slavery, for one has to join a forum from a capitalist. If not, we will be deprived of information. Therefore the POSTERS agreed to nothing, and the OWNERS are really just EXPLOITERS.
if you let us post but do not post yourself, you "eat" the information we produce, but dont produce yourself. You would be quite literally a parasite, and in communist terminology: a CAPITALIST. Do notice that I dont mean YOU, but I just use the "you-passive" in order to demonstrate.
Free market creates suffering because in free market capital decides. People dont decide anything. If I would have a say, I would have the ability to post outside OI. But everytme I apply for the unrestriction the answer is: "we would like to take you, but you have no say on this, because you do not pay the website.". Therefore, capital decided for me that I am not to post outside OI. The laws of the capital are not thinking, and therefore not HUMANE.
Read Marx's das kapital. It is an entire book that solely points out how capitalism is full of mistakes, totalitarianism and unethical prioritizing.
The reason why information slaves are slaves, is because they have little choice over the exact terms of how they POST. They MUST do what capitalists tell them to, or they will ban them from the website.
The point was that website OWNERS are not needed to run a WEBSITE. "POSTERS" are. Yet who is it that takes all the products of that website, and lets no needy man use it?
(Thanks for NecroCommie, where most of the initial retarded rethoric was based of)
Revleft is not a communist utopia. It is a website. Get over yourself.
Communism does not require that every time a group of people meet to discuss something together, they must make the meeting open to anyone and everyone.
Nobody here is stopping you from finding another board to join, one more suited to your tastes, nor are they preventing you from starting one yourself.
Two things:
1) for someone in the process of asking others to read Marx, you have a pretty flagrant misuse of the term "exploitation" here.
2) you don't sound like a cappie in this quote.
The reason why information slaves are slaves, is because they have little choice over the exact terms of how they POST. They MUST do what capitalists tell them to, or they will ban them from the website.
That's fair. . .
The problem is this.
We're the other side. We don't have a vast propaganda machine over most of the world; we have a few corners here and there, including this small patch of internet. In order to have discussion of leftist views from a leftist perspective, we have to have some sort of membrane ensuring that we don't become diluted beyond recognition by the mainstream.
I'm pretty sure it says the same thing in the FAQ.
The point was that website OWNERS are not needed to run a WEBSITE. "POSTERS" are. Yet who is it that takes all the products of that website, and lets no needy man use it?
Actually, owners are needed to run a website, as long as the website requires material resources. Even moreseo, admins. Furthermore, you can still read just about all of it.
As for your threads, if there are active threads which you started and you would like to finish, a polite pm to the moderator of the forum they are currently in would likely result in them being moved to OI.
This is relevant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Platform (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Platform)
If you aren't a cappie, you should talk about it.
Now my replies:
Originally Posted by Kwisatz Haderach
Communism does not require that every time a group of people meet to discuss something together, they must make the meeting open to anyone and everyone.
Your repertoire of insults is disappointingly limited.Of course, but neither does a business or an individual with private property. So either you support private property or you give up private property and make this forum open to everyone.
And my insults are not dissapointing, i have achieved my objective, which was to make you waste time adressing them in the first place. Freedom of expression is so great, isn't it?
Originally Posted by NoXion
Nobody here is stopping you from finding another board to join, one more suited to your tastes, nor are they preventing you from starting one yourself.That is right, nobody is stopping me. Then why do some communists here argue that the same alternatives do not apply for a worker in a free market?
"Nobody in this company is stopping you from finding another job to join, one more suited to your states, nor are we preventing you to start your own business yourself"
This rant i went through is more of a demonstration of the failure of some communist arguments rather than a personal criticism of the website.
Two things:
1) for someone in the process of asking others to read Marx, you have a pretty flagrant misuse of the term "exploitation" here.
2) you don't sound like a cappie in this quote.
3)That's fair. . .
The problem is this.
We're the other side. We don't have a vast propaganda machine over most of the world; we have a few corners here and there, including this small patch of internet. In order to have discussion of leftist views from a leftist perspective, we have to have some sort of membrane ensuring that we don't become diluted beyond recognition by the mainstream.
I'm pretty sure it says the same thing in the FAQ.
4)ctually, owners are needed to run a website, as long as the website requires material resources. Even moreseo, admins. Furthermore, you can still read just about all of it.
As for your threads, if there are active threads which you started and you would like to finish, a polite pm to the moderator of the forum they are currently in would likely result in them being moved to OI.
This is relevant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Platform (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Platform)
If you aren't a cappie, you should talk about it.
1) I know, curiously enough as stated above, most of my arguments were based in NecroCommie's rethoric. It is no wonder ever since i came i spend like 3 weeks discussing exploitation. The way some communists use it here is very misleading.
2) I suppose that's a complement...
3) Many other websites, actually sympathetic of private property, also don't have a "vast propaganda machine all over the world" and yet they don't "restrict" and ENFORCE their PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS on posters, which is why my rant was a criticism of some arguments here rather than a personal criticism of the website.
4) If owners are NEEDED to RUN website and ADMINS to control it because it requires MATERIAL RESOURCES, then WHY do some communists argue that OWNERS in a business are NOT NEEDED to run it? Doesn't a business also include MATERIAL RESOURCES?
Anyway, i don't really care about ym threads, i'd rather have the freedom to make them. It's not like there's much to discuss left in them.
And the only way to prevent fascists from expressing their views here is precisely by enforcing property rights, which many members oppose.
Kwisatz replied:
You're insane. As I just said, you do not have to support private property in order to agree that people may carry out a conversation not open to everyone in the world.
Also, collective property over an object does not entail that the object in question is "open to everyone," either. The collective may democratically vote to exclude a person from use of that object. Which is precisely what happened to you.
It is possible to create a site or forum absolutely free. Finding another job or starting a business never comes at zero cost.
To which I replied:
Nope, you need to support private property, because i am being subject to someone's private property (THE WEBSITE) and being excluded from some of its use (BY PROPERTY RIGHTS)
there was no democratic vote for this. Who voted for it? When was it voted? It is likely that at the time of the voting there wasnt a third of as many members as there now is. Maybe, to be DEMOCRACTIC, we should hold a vote between all members on this matter. otherwise, you're like DEFENDING A CONSTITUTION. "It is like this because it was voted and agreed upon like this on the first time".
Maybe it is possible to create a forum absolutely free. I suppose THIS forum is the case?
Also, you surely have noticed the advertisements on the board, Please be aware that the advertisements are a necessary evil to cover the monthly running costs for our server. But you can easily remove it from your screens by donating $10 or more to RevLeft, learn more here.
Now NoXion replied:
Originally Posted by hayenmill http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1487004#post1487004)
That is right, nobody is stopping me. Then why do some communists here argue that the same alternatives do not apply for a worker in a free market?Because most workers have to find employment if they want a decent living. You don't have to be a member of a forum.
"Nobody in this company is stopping you from finding another job to join, one more suited to your states, nor are we preventing you to start your own business yourself"
This rant i went through is more of a demonstration of the failure of some communist arguments rather than a personal criticism of the website.The situations are not analogous.
Maybe it is possible to create a forum absolutely free. I suppose THIS forum is the case?
Also, you surely have noticed the advertisements on the board, Please be aware that the advertisements are a necessary evil to cover the monthly running costs for our server. But you can easily remove it from your screens by donating $10 or more to RevLeft, learn more here.That's the reality of running a discussion board with over a thousand active members in a capitalist society. Why do you find that so hard to grasp?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
To which I Replied:
Originally Posted by NoXion http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1487098#post1487098)
Because most workers have to find employment if they want a decent living. You don't have to be a member of a forum.The situations are not analogous. oh really?
I can leave forum at any time - Workers can leave Jobs at any time
I can look other forums for better information and discussion - Workers can join other jobs for a better livelihood
I can start my own forum at any time (WITH A COST) - workers can start their own business at any time (WITH A COST)
And people can make a business out of a forum as well. If it gets enough members, ads will be a good way of making money on the forum.
:
That's the reality of running a discussion board with over a thousand active members in a capitalist society. Why do you find that so hard to grasp?
you are replying to something else
kwisatz made a point that:
"It is possible to create a site or forum absolutely free. Finding another job or starting a business never comes at zero cost. "
to which i replied that THIS type of forums you have to pay for. he was trying to argue that a worker and a "poster" are different situations, when in fact they are very very similar.
So what does this have to do with a capitalist society? In any society making a server stay online has a cost. Now you can steal others to pay for that cost, or you can trade with other people.
also, to kwisatz: BITE ME. You are the troll. Stop escaping the necessity to think, the logic of my arguments and for once use REASON.
--------------------------
And i got the following:
mikittyhasaboner: Hayenmill, shut the fuck up. This is a political board, people with certain politics post on certain political boards. Most forums just ban people who register solely to disagree and debate an opposing view, Revleft on the other hand has a whole forum dedicated to people who disagree with revolutionary leftist politics, so be happy that your at least in OI. Get over yourself and either leave Revleft or continue to post in OI, (like you yourself claim) which you rarely posted outside of anyways.
GPDP: Goddamn it, hayenmill, just shut up already. I was trying to be nice in explaining why you were restricted, but you gotta make it hard, don't you?
This forum is not representative of a communist society. If we were to apply communist principles here (and we can't even if we desired to, seeing as we still need to operate within a capitalist framework of needing someone to own the website in order for it to exist), then what space would we have to discuss amongst ourselves and ONLY amongst ourselves in a wide variety of issues? We'd have fuckers like Nazis coming in here and screwing around with us, which we ALWAYS get. Would you argue we not restrict them, let alone ban them, because our commie principles dictate free access to EVERYONE?
I suspect you're either trolling, or you take this shit WAAAAAAAAAAAY too seriously, and either way, I think you need to go outside or something, and find something more productive to do with your life other than being a HARDCORE INTERNET CAPITALIST WARRIOR if this shit riles you up so much.
tl;dr: stfu
TO WHICH I REPLIED
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykittyhasaboner http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1487138#post1487138)
Hayenmill, shut the fuck up. This is a political board, people with certain politics post on certain political boards. Most forums just ban people who register solely to disagree and debate an opposing view, Revleft on the other hand has a whole forum dedicated to people who disagree with revolutionary leftist politics, so be happy that your at least in OI. Get over yourself and either leave Revleft or continue to post in OI, (like you yourself claim) which you rarely posted outside of anyways.
So you justify enforcing property rights because at least you give a chance for dissenters to post?
By the same logic, you could justify fascism: "This is a fascist country, people which agree with our ideas live here. Most fascist countries just kill people who have different ideas, but WE on the other hand let you stay on this nice little CAGE/GULAG/CONCENTRATION CAMP (but you wouldnt say it like that, you'd say: We on the other hand have a whole infrastructure dedicated to people who disagree with our political views, so be happy that we ACTUALLY DON'T KILL YOU). "
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDPD
Goddamn it, hayenmill, just shut up already. I was trying to be nice in explaining why you were restricted, but you gotta make it hard, don't you?
This forum is not representative of a communist society. If we were to apply communist principles here (and we can't even if we desired to, seeing as we still need to operate within a capitalist framework of needing someone to own the website in order for it to exist), then what space would we have to discuss amongst ourselves and ONLY amongst ourselves in a wide variety of issues? We'd have fuckers like Nazis coming in here and screwing around with us, which we ALWAYS get. Would you argue we not restrict them, let alone ban them, because our commie principles dictate free access to EVERYONE?
I suspect you're either trolling, or you take this shit WAAAAAAAAAAAY too seriously, and either way, I think you need to go outside or something, and find something more productive to do with your life other than being a HARDCORE INTERNET CAPITALIST WARRIOR if this shit riles you up so much.
tl;dr: stfu
Damn that's the second shut up i've seen. I suppose it's hard to face the truth isn't it?
You are right, this forum IS NOT representative of a communist society. and i'm saying it SHOULD BE and it CAN BE. If you people were not too lazy and hypocritical you could:
-Get rid of the "owner dilema" by collectivizing the website. Every member pays a small fee so ads are no longer necessary, and since everyone pays, everyone has a say on it, which means everyone gets to VOTE DEMOCRATICALLY, unlike now where a small elite pays for it and exclusively has the say on how things are run. If you want to do this in a factory, why not do it HERE AS WELL?
-By having these barrier to entry, it is likely you would have LESS DISSENTERS (who would pay to troll?) and could further engage in your fantasy talk. Therefore, no assertion of property rights would be needed (unless of course, the assertion of COLLECTIVE PROPERTY RIGHTS, but thats another scrambled rethoric to discuss some other time)
Just because you live in a Capitalist Society doesn't mean you have to act like it to SPREAD the message. Follow my advices or stop having the website at all. I can't even believe how you people can live with the hypocrisy.
As for your nazi example, if you had a collective factory, would you DISCRIMINATE on employing someone based on their ideological views? But then you are going against people's freedom of holding views that are against your own, and to enforce such discrimination would mean going against your policies and social struggles for workers that have been happening since the 20th century.
Am i taking this way too seriously? Sure, only because i hate seeing such idiocy in human beings. It's not like i have as an objective to "show how capitalism is better", i'm just showing how YOU are FLAWED in your PRACTICES.
Also, i'll take that tl;dr as intelectual lazyness which i was already expecting coming from someone who is too hypocritical to practice what they preach, let alone understand why what they are preaching is already wrong.
actually, that doesn't sound fair at all
By what right do YOU CAPITALISTS EXPLOIT ME of my COLLECTIVE RIGHT to post in any damn thread i like?
Why do you "LANDOWNERS" think you can forbid me of my NEED to post ouside OI?
This whole website is a means of production: a means of producing and discussing information regarding communism. Why do you think you can PRIVATIZE the rules to the COLLECTIVE? To FORBID the rest of the members to have a say in the way THIS "FACTORY" is run? Just because the original founding fathers of this website voted that way, or some ELITE now gets to vote, why doesn't the MAJORITY vote for it DEMOCRATICALLY?
We website posters don't have money to pay for our website ourselves. If we did we would be website OWNERS. You REALLY need to learn the concept of INFORMATION SLAVERY. It is slavery, for one has to join a forum from a capitalist. If not, we will be deprived of information. Therefore the POSTERS agreed to nothing, and the OWNERS are really just EXPLOITERS.
if you let us post but do not post yourself, you "eat" the information we produce, but dont produce yourself. You would be quite literally a parasite, and in communist terminology: a CAPITALIST. Do notice that I dont mean YOU, but I just use the "you-passive" in order to demonstrate.
Free market creates suffering because in free market capital decides. People dont decide anything. If I would have a say, I would have the ability to post outside OI. But everytme I apply for the unrestriction the answer is: "we would like to take you, but you have no say on this, because you do not pay the website.". Therefore, capital decided for me that I am not to post outside OI. The laws of the capital are not thinking, and therefore not HUMANE.
Read Marx's das kapital. It is an entire book that solely points out how capitalism is full of mistakes, totalitarianism and unethical prioritizing.
The reason why information slaves are slaves, is because they have little choice over the exact terms of how they POST. They MUST do what capitalists tell them to, or they will ban them from the website.
The point was that website OWNERS are not needed to run a WEBSITE. "POSTERS" are. Yet who is it that takes all the products of that website, and lets no needy man use it?
(Thanks for NecroCommie, where most of the initial retarded rethoric was based of)
Revleft is not a communist utopia. It is a website. Get over yourself.
Communism does not require that every time a group of people meet to discuss something together, they must make the meeting open to anyone and everyone.
Nobody here is stopping you from finding another board to join, one more suited to your tastes, nor are they preventing you from starting one yourself.
Two things:
1) for someone in the process of asking others to read Marx, you have a pretty flagrant misuse of the term "exploitation" here.
2) you don't sound like a cappie in this quote.
The reason why information slaves are slaves, is because they have little choice over the exact terms of how they POST. They MUST do what capitalists tell them to, or they will ban them from the website.
That's fair. . .
The problem is this.
We're the other side. We don't have a vast propaganda machine over most of the world; we have a few corners here and there, including this small patch of internet. In order to have discussion of leftist views from a leftist perspective, we have to have some sort of membrane ensuring that we don't become diluted beyond recognition by the mainstream.
I'm pretty sure it says the same thing in the FAQ.
The point was that website OWNERS are not needed to run a WEBSITE. "POSTERS" are. Yet who is it that takes all the products of that website, and lets no needy man use it?
Actually, owners are needed to run a website, as long as the website requires material resources. Even moreseo, admins. Furthermore, you can still read just about all of it.
As for your threads, if there are active threads which you started and you would like to finish, a polite pm to the moderator of the forum they are currently in would likely result in them being moved to OI.
This is relevant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Platform (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Platform)
If you aren't a cappie, you should talk about it.
Now my replies:
Originally Posted by Kwisatz Haderach
Communism does not require that every time a group of people meet to discuss something together, they must make the meeting open to anyone and everyone.
Your repertoire of insults is disappointingly limited.Of course, but neither does a business or an individual with private property. So either you support private property or you give up private property and make this forum open to everyone.
And my insults are not dissapointing, i have achieved my objective, which was to make you waste time adressing them in the first place. Freedom of expression is so great, isn't it?
Originally Posted by NoXion
Nobody here is stopping you from finding another board to join, one more suited to your tastes, nor are they preventing you from starting one yourself.That is right, nobody is stopping me. Then why do some communists here argue that the same alternatives do not apply for a worker in a free market?
"Nobody in this company is stopping you from finding another job to join, one more suited to your states, nor are we preventing you to start your own business yourself"
This rant i went through is more of a demonstration of the failure of some communist arguments rather than a personal criticism of the website.
Two things:
1) for someone in the process of asking others to read Marx, you have a pretty flagrant misuse of the term "exploitation" here.
2) you don't sound like a cappie in this quote.
3)That's fair. . .
The problem is this.
We're the other side. We don't have a vast propaganda machine over most of the world; we have a few corners here and there, including this small patch of internet. In order to have discussion of leftist views from a leftist perspective, we have to have some sort of membrane ensuring that we don't become diluted beyond recognition by the mainstream.
I'm pretty sure it says the same thing in the FAQ.
4)ctually, owners are needed to run a website, as long as the website requires material resources. Even moreseo, admins. Furthermore, you can still read just about all of it.
As for your threads, if there are active threads which you started and you would like to finish, a polite pm to the moderator of the forum they are currently in would likely result in them being moved to OI.
This is relevant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Platform (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Platform)
If you aren't a cappie, you should talk about it.
1) I know, curiously enough as stated above, most of my arguments were based in NecroCommie's rethoric. It is no wonder ever since i came i spend like 3 weeks discussing exploitation. The way some communists use it here is very misleading.
2) I suppose that's a complement...
3) Many other websites, actually sympathetic of private property, also don't have a "vast propaganda machine all over the world" and yet they don't "restrict" and ENFORCE their PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS on posters, which is why my rant was a criticism of some arguments here rather than a personal criticism of the website.
4) If owners are NEEDED to RUN website and ADMINS to control it because it requires MATERIAL RESOURCES, then WHY do some communists argue that OWNERS in a business are NOT NEEDED to run it? Doesn't a business also include MATERIAL RESOURCES?
Anyway, i don't really care about ym threads, i'd rather have the freedom to make them. It's not like there's much to discuss left in them.
And the only way to prevent fascists from expressing their views here is precisely by enforcing property rights, which many members oppose.
Kwisatz replied:
You're insane. As I just said, you do not have to support private property in order to agree that people may carry out a conversation not open to everyone in the world.
Also, collective property over an object does not entail that the object in question is "open to everyone," either. The collective may democratically vote to exclude a person from use of that object. Which is precisely what happened to you.
It is possible to create a site or forum absolutely free. Finding another job or starting a business never comes at zero cost.
To which I replied:
Nope, you need to support private property, because i am being subject to someone's private property (THE WEBSITE) and being excluded from some of its use (BY PROPERTY RIGHTS)
there was no democratic vote for this. Who voted for it? When was it voted? It is likely that at the time of the voting there wasnt a third of as many members as there now is. Maybe, to be DEMOCRACTIC, we should hold a vote between all members on this matter. otherwise, you're like DEFENDING A CONSTITUTION. "It is like this because it was voted and agreed upon like this on the first time".
Maybe it is possible to create a forum absolutely free. I suppose THIS forum is the case?
Also, you surely have noticed the advertisements on the board, Please be aware that the advertisements are a necessary evil to cover the monthly running costs for our server. But you can easily remove it from your screens by donating $10 or more to RevLeft, learn more here.
Now NoXion replied:
Originally Posted by hayenmill http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1487004#post1487004)
That is right, nobody is stopping me. Then why do some communists here argue that the same alternatives do not apply for a worker in a free market?Because most workers have to find employment if they want a decent living. You don't have to be a member of a forum.
"Nobody in this company is stopping you from finding another job to join, one more suited to your states, nor are we preventing you to start your own business yourself"
This rant i went through is more of a demonstration of the failure of some communist arguments rather than a personal criticism of the website.The situations are not analogous.
Maybe it is possible to create a forum absolutely free. I suppose THIS forum is the case?
Also, you surely have noticed the advertisements on the board, Please be aware that the advertisements are a necessary evil to cover the monthly running costs for our server. But you can easily remove it from your screens by donating $10 or more to RevLeft, learn more here.That's the reality of running a discussion board with over a thousand active members in a capitalist society. Why do you find that so hard to grasp?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
To which I Replied:
Originally Posted by NoXion http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1487098#post1487098)
Because most workers have to find employment if they want a decent living. You don't have to be a member of a forum.The situations are not analogous. oh really?
I can leave forum at any time - Workers can leave Jobs at any time
I can look other forums for better information and discussion - Workers can join other jobs for a better livelihood
I can start my own forum at any time (WITH A COST) - workers can start their own business at any time (WITH A COST)
And people can make a business out of a forum as well. If it gets enough members, ads will be a good way of making money on the forum.
:
That's the reality of running a discussion board with over a thousand active members in a capitalist society. Why do you find that so hard to grasp?
you are replying to something else
kwisatz made a point that:
"It is possible to create a site or forum absolutely free. Finding another job or starting a business never comes at zero cost. "
to which i replied that THIS type of forums you have to pay for. he was trying to argue that a worker and a "poster" are different situations, when in fact they are very very similar.
So what does this have to do with a capitalist society? In any society making a server stay online has a cost. Now you can steal others to pay for that cost, or you can trade with other people.
also, to kwisatz: BITE ME. You are the troll. Stop escaping the necessity to think, the logic of my arguments and for once use REASON.
--------------------------
And i got the following:
mikittyhasaboner: Hayenmill, shut the fuck up. This is a political board, people with certain politics post on certain political boards. Most forums just ban people who register solely to disagree and debate an opposing view, Revleft on the other hand has a whole forum dedicated to people who disagree with revolutionary leftist politics, so be happy that your at least in OI. Get over yourself and either leave Revleft or continue to post in OI, (like you yourself claim) which you rarely posted outside of anyways.
GPDP: Goddamn it, hayenmill, just shut up already. I was trying to be nice in explaining why you were restricted, but you gotta make it hard, don't you?
This forum is not representative of a communist society. If we were to apply communist principles here (and we can't even if we desired to, seeing as we still need to operate within a capitalist framework of needing someone to own the website in order for it to exist), then what space would we have to discuss amongst ourselves and ONLY amongst ourselves in a wide variety of issues? We'd have fuckers like Nazis coming in here and screwing around with us, which we ALWAYS get. Would you argue we not restrict them, let alone ban them, because our commie principles dictate free access to EVERYONE?
I suspect you're either trolling, or you take this shit WAAAAAAAAAAAY too seriously, and either way, I think you need to go outside or something, and find something more productive to do with your life other than being a HARDCORE INTERNET CAPITALIST WARRIOR if this shit riles you up so much.
tl;dr: stfu
TO WHICH I REPLIED
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykittyhasaboner http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1487138#post1487138)
Hayenmill, shut the fuck up. This is a political board, people with certain politics post on certain political boards. Most forums just ban people who register solely to disagree and debate an opposing view, Revleft on the other hand has a whole forum dedicated to people who disagree with revolutionary leftist politics, so be happy that your at least in OI. Get over yourself and either leave Revleft or continue to post in OI, (like you yourself claim) which you rarely posted outside of anyways.
So you justify enforcing property rights because at least you give a chance for dissenters to post?
By the same logic, you could justify fascism: "This is a fascist country, people which agree with our ideas live here. Most fascist countries just kill people who have different ideas, but WE on the other hand let you stay on this nice little CAGE/GULAG/CONCENTRATION CAMP (but you wouldnt say it like that, you'd say: We on the other hand have a whole infrastructure dedicated to people who disagree with our political views, so be happy that we ACTUALLY DON'T KILL YOU). "
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDPD
Goddamn it, hayenmill, just shut up already. I was trying to be nice in explaining why you were restricted, but you gotta make it hard, don't you?
This forum is not representative of a communist society. If we were to apply communist principles here (and we can't even if we desired to, seeing as we still need to operate within a capitalist framework of needing someone to own the website in order for it to exist), then what space would we have to discuss amongst ourselves and ONLY amongst ourselves in a wide variety of issues? We'd have fuckers like Nazis coming in here and screwing around with us, which we ALWAYS get. Would you argue we not restrict them, let alone ban them, because our commie principles dictate free access to EVERYONE?
I suspect you're either trolling, or you take this shit WAAAAAAAAAAAY too seriously, and either way, I think you need to go outside or something, and find something more productive to do with your life other than being a HARDCORE INTERNET CAPITALIST WARRIOR if this shit riles you up so much.
tl;dr: stfu
Damn that's the second shut up i've seen. I suppose it's hard to face the truth isn't it?
You are right, this forum IS NOT representative of a communist society. and i'm saying it SHOULD BE and it CAN BE. If you people were not too lazy and hypocritical you could:
-Get rid of the "owner dilema" by collectivizing the website. Every member pays a small fee so ads are no longer necessary, and since everyone pays, everyone has a say on it, which means everyone gets to VOTE DEMOCRATICALLY, unlike now where a small elite pays for it and exclusively has the say on how things are run. If you want to do this in a factory, why not do it HERE AS WELL?
-By having these barrier to entry, it is likely you would have LESS DISSENTERS (who would pay to troll?) and could further engage in your fantasy talk. Therefore, no assertion of property rights would be needed (unless of course, the assertion of COLLECTIVE PROPERTY RIGHTS, but thats another scrambled rethoric to discuss some other time)
Just because you live in a Capitalist Society doesn't mean you have to act like it to SPREAD the message. Follow my advices or stop having the website at all. I can't even believe how you people can live with the hypocrisy.
As for your nazi example, if you had a collective factory, would you DISCRIMINATE on employing someone based on their ideological views? But then you are going against people's freedom of holding views that are against your own, and to enforce such discrimination would mean going against your policies and social struggles for workers that have been happening since the 20th century.
Am i taking this way too seriously? Sure, only because i hate seeing such idiocy in human beings. It's not like i have as an objective to "show how capitalism is better", i'm just showing how YOU are FLAWED in your PRACTICES.
Also, i'll take that tl;dr as intelectual lazyness which i was already expecting coming from someone who is too hypocritical to practice what they preach, let alone understand why what they are preaching is already wrong.