Questions about Fascism [Archive]

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originofopinion

9th July 2009, 19:29

ArrowLance

9th July 2009, 19:37

1: My favorite short description of fascism is a one-party state based on corporativism and a 'Strong vs Weak' view on classes.

2: The trains arrive on time? I suppose the economy could function well.

3: Some people might say Nazi Germany, and then of course Italian Fascist Italy. I really don't know.

4: Very Right. The economic policies are right-wing. They promote private ownership of the means of production, heavily aided by the government (coporativism).

Comrade_Josh

9th July 2009, 19:45

LOLseph Stalin

9th July 2009, 19:46

1.The definition a Fascism is a much debated topic, but what is Fascism?

2.I'm not a Fascist or anything, but I believe everything has its pros and cons, so what are the pros of Fascism?

3.Has an nation ran well under a Fascist State?

4.Is Fascism a leftist idea or rightist idea, because my comrades debate between these two things?

Hope People Answer! :)

1. Fascism is a militaristic, nationalistic, and totalitarian form of government. There is strong emphasis put on the state. Everything is done for the good of the state. Even the economic system is run in such a way, Corporatism. It's really a mix. There is private ownership, but production is regulated by the state. You pretty much have to produce what the state tells you to or you're not loyal. There's emphasis on survival of the fittest. Since military is a big part, obviously the weak wouldn't last long. Not to mention, the totalitarian government controls all aspects of life to ensure everything you do is for the benefit of the nation. :)

2. What pros? Ok, fine. I guess there's a few if you're a statist which I'm not it seems to unite the people of a nation alot more, considering nationalism is a big part of it.

3. Industry wise, some Fascists states have actually improved their economy. Due to the emphasis on military they often spend alot of time manufactering military equiptment. THis can give people jobs as we saw in Nazi Germany. In that aspect Fascism can be a good thing.

4. Fascism is far right. Despite there being government regulation in production there's still private ownership. There's also the nationalism and military which are commonly viewed as right wing ideas.

Comrade_Josh

9th July 2009, 19:48

oh and nazism isnt fascism it is a warped spin off of

originofopinion

9th July 2009, 19:58

Give Me a list of all the Fascist States of the 20th and 21st Century. :)
And can a Fascist state have freedom of speech?

Old Man Diogenes

9th July 2009, 20:09

Give Me a list of all the Fascist States of the 20th and 21st Century. :)
And can a Fascist state have freedom of speech?

As long as it doesn't oppose the State yer, but usually Fascist states consolidate their power in the beginning by crushing all opposition and making sure all others are completely subserviant to the State. Basically pure oppression.

LOLseph Stalin

9th July 2009, 20:19

Give Me a list of all the Fascist States of the 20th and 21st Century. :)
And can a Fascist state have freedom of speech?

There are no Fascist states now, but there was several in the 20th century. Italy was the main one, having laid down the foundation for Fascism. Germany followed National Socialism which was a form of Fascism, there was Spain under General Franco although I don't know too much about that one. Chile under Pinochet may have been Fascistic although I'm not sure, same with South Korea. It may have had Fascist tendencies. Please let me know if there's any I'm missing. :) And no, the only freedom of speech in Fascist states is stuff that doesn't go against the government's interests.

Jimmie Higgins

9th July 2009, 21:10

In the US there is a lot of confusion about what fascism is or would look like. I believe the right-wing (as well as the ruling class) has purposefully confused the term in order to distance their radical antisemitism (mostly in the past now thankfully) and anti-communism (not so much in the past) from its obvious parallels to early fascist groups in central Europe. Now many conservatives try to argue that because the horrors of Russian totalitarianism and the horrors of NAZI-ism appear similar, it's actually the same and that any "big governmnet" is basically fascist. Hence Glen Beck saying that Obama is a Socialist and a Fascist.

The mainstream and liberals have just been lazy with the term and uses it for any police-state or anti-civil-rights measures by any government.

The missing part of the understanding is that unlike regular bourgoise police-states (or bourgoise-democracy) fascism is a right-wing ideology with grass-roots vigilante enforcers. When fascism comes into power, these gangs are granted carte-blanche and allowed to operate as part of the governmnet.

So while liberals and even some radicals called Bush a fascist, he wasn't. Bush was able to get what he (and the ruling class) wanted within the rules of bourgoise democracy (although he did bend quite a few norms of US government).

Fascism in the US would look like this: David Duke is elected and makes the KKK an auxiliary of the National Guard. Klan members are allowed full rights to patrol black and latino and working class neighborhoods in full hooded outfits and terrorize "degenerates" and leftists. Or say Tom Tancredo became President and then makes the Minutemen the official border patrol - they are only subject to a loyalty oath to the President and can do whatever they want to "stop the immigrant menace". This is what fascism would look like today.

Glenn Beck

10th July 2009, 07:48

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/understanding_fascism.htm

This is among the best explanations of fascism I've ever read

Kwisatz Haderach

10th July 2009, 09:10

My definition of fascism from another thread:

Fascism: A political movement that advocates radical nationalism, corporatism, class collaboration, social and economic inequality, and sometimes also racism. It is very strongly opposed to the left in general because fascism is based on the idea of inequality ("the strong must dominate the weak"), while the guiding principle of the left is equality. Also, fascism is exceptionally opposed to communism in particular, because communism advocates international solidarity and class struggle ("workers of all countries unite and overthrow the capitalists!"), while fascism advocates nationalism and class collaboration ("workers and capitalists of our country, stand together and fight other countries!")

Raúl Duke

10th July 2009, 15:14

Give Me a list of all the Fascist States of the 20th and 21st Century. :)
And can a Fascist state have freedom of speech?

Portugal under Salazar (I heard something he issued a new constitution which followed coporatist, which is part of Mussolini's conception of fascism, ideals.)

Spain under Franco

Italy under Mussolini

Croatia (Ustashe)

Germany followed National Socialism which seems like fascism with a lot of bogus racial science (i.e. Aryans as master race, semites/jews and other groups as "low races") added in.

Perhaps Argentina

Also if I remember correctly Nazi Germany had a few puppet regimes

One thing that the Spanish and Italian fascists somewhat complained about is that both had to ally themselves with other conservative elements, such as monarchists, which "hampered" their "full plans" according to them although at one point there was the "Italian Social Republic" which is said by some fascists to reflect the "path towards the real goal of fascism."

Some could add Japan but they weren't, to my knowledge, explicitly fascist.

scarletghoul

10th July 2009, 15:38

Well because there are many elements to fascism it is hard to say if certain states are technically fascist or not. Imperial Japan, Chiang Kaishek's China, and Argentina all had elements of fascism in them, but I don't know if they could be really called fascist. Japan still has a little bit of fascism in its economy.

For recent examples of fascism, latin America is the place to go. There were a bunch of fascistic regimes propped up by the USA that suppressed the communist threat with death squads and helped American economic interests (Chile, Peru, El Salvador etc). But most of them are no longer fascist.
The only contemporary example of a fascist government I can think of is Columbia

ComradeOm

10th July 2009, 15:47

One thing that the Spanish and Italian fascists somewhat complained about is that both had to ally themselves with other conservative elements, such as monarchists, which "hampered" their "full plans" according to them although at one point there was the "Italian Social Republic" which is said by some fascists to reflect the "path towards the real goal of fascism."All fascist remained dependent on the support of "conservative elements". Its often forgotten that both Hitler and Mussolini were invited to power, did not significantly distort existing state structures, and enjoyed the confidence of fellow conservatives until the very end

What distinguished Hitler and Mussolini from the likes of Franco and Salazar is the simple fact that the former lost a war. In turn this can be attributed to certain radicalising tendencies (particularly within National Socialism) and imperial ambitions in the more mature economies of Germany and Italy

Japan still has a little bit of fascism in its economyCorporatism does not equal fascism. No one is going to argue that Ireland is/was fascist

10th July 2009, 17:41

I am curious why many here seem to think that Nazi Germany was not "fascist per se" ?

scarletghoul

10th July 2009, 18:52

Well they weren't classical fascist like Italy, but they were still definately fascist

Jimmie Higgins

10th July 2009, 21:14

Well they weren't classical fascist like Italy, but they were still definately fascistI think this is part of the problem with identifying fascism by policies rather than class character and goals.

There were a lot of fascist groups in Europe after Mussolini and some used christian iconography and so on to promote their romanticized "national character"; some were more atheistic; some used classical and neo-classical images; others were just plain nuts like the Aryan-myth hyping NAZIs. You don't have to be anti-semetic to be a fascist and most non-neo-nazi fascists (or "respectable" fascists) today are more liely to be anti-immigrant rather than anti-sepecifc ethnic groups.

Just because the NAZIs saw their nationalism in terms of blood whereas the Italian fascists saw it through culture doesn't mean that the groups served different purposes. Fascism in a reactionary movement against working class movements that they see as "dividing the nation" along class lines.

Today we are at the most risk for a resurgence of fascism of any time since Hitler ate it in a ditch. The middle classes all over the world are feeling hurt by globalization and yet they certaintly are not (unless a huge working class movement develops) seeing the working classes as a viable alternative to the capitalists. This is the recipie for fascim and today it could easily develop in India or Brazil or Eastern Europe.