The Creation of New Means of Production under Socialism

[AnthArmo]

Something that has me confused, or at the very least something I can't quite get my head around.

Under Capitalism, Money is used as the stimulus for growth. When there is demand for a good, a Capitalist will use Money to invest in things needed to create a "Means of Production" (in this case, a factory)

With the Factory, the Capitalist then proceeds to exploit workers working within the Capitalist's Factory.

What I don't understand is the Socialist alternative to this. If I understand Leninist Worker Council's correctly, the creation of new means of production is to be organized by Worker Councils based upon need. That's fine, but in order to do this, won't a Worker Council require money to pay for the materials and labour needed to create the new Means of Production? and won't that require the exploitation of labour?

As I understand it, Anarcho-Communism and its moneyless economy doesn't have the problem of money. But once again, isn't the same problem apparent in Anarcho-Collectivism, were municipal assemblies essentially exploit labour?

The Parecon method at least seems a little more sensible. Basically, Worker and Consumer councils decide what means of production are created (once again based on need) and materials and labour is paid for with Credits, which disappears once spent, and as such does not require the exploitation of labour.

In short my question is, What will spur and pay for the production of new means of production in a socialist society

[Psy]

Something that has me confused, or at the very least something I can't quite get my head around.

Under Capitalism, Money is used as the stimulus for growth. When there is demand for a good, a Capitalist will use Money to invest in things needed to create a "Means of Production" (in this case, a factory)

With the Factory, the Capitalist then proceeds to exploit workers working within the Capitalist's Factory.

What I don't understand is the Socialist alternative to this. If I understand Leninist Worker Council's correctly, the creation of new means of production is to be organized by Worker Councils based upon need. That's fine, but in order to do this, won't a Worker Council require money to pay for the materials and labour needed to create the new Means of Production? and won't that require the exploitation of labour?

As I understand it, Anarcho-Communism and its moneyless economy doesn't have the problem of money. But once again, isn't the same problem apparent in Anarcho-Collectivism, were municipal assemblies essentially exploit labour?

The Parecon method at least seems a little more sensible. Basically, Worker and Consumer councils decide what means of production are created (once again based on need) and materials and labour is paid for with Credits, which disappears once spent, and as such does not require the exploitation of labour.

In short my question is, What will spur and pay for the production of new means of production in a socialist society

The idea is that the body governing allocates resources to said project just like how a military division doesn't need to worry about raising money to buy equipment as equipment is simply assigned to the division.

[cyu]

won't a Worker Council require money to pay for the materials and labour needed to create the new Means of Production? and won't that require the exploitation of labour?


I'm not sure how you're making the leap from the first statement to the second. If the company were democratically controlled by the employees, how are they exploited? If anything that happens is based on what they choose for themselves, can you really call it exploitation?

If I throw away my wallet, is that theft? If I hit myself with a club, is that assault? If I reward myself with a vacation, is that a bribe?

[AnthArmo]

The idea is that the body governing allocates resources to said project just like how a military division doesn't need to worry about raising money to buy equipment as equipment is simply assigned to the division.

That's absolutely fine, I'm more curious about how such a governing body, such as a workers council, would get those funds in the first place. I'm concerned that the funds would be the result of surplus labour.


I'm not sure how you're making the leap from the first statement to the second. If the company were democratically controlled by the employees, how are they exploited? If anything that happens is based on what they choose for themselves, can you really call it exploitation?

If I throw away my wallet, is that theft? If I hit myself with a club, is that assault? If I reward myself with a vacation, is that a bribe?

Fair enough, your merely stating that it's not exploitation if workers have control over the allocation of surplus labour, and if it is used for need not profit.

Gotcha :cool:

[Psy]

That's absolutely fine, I'm more curious about how such a governing body, such as a workers council, would get those funds in the first place. I'm concerned that the funds would be the result of surplus labour.

Your still thinking too capitalists, with centralized inventory systems there would be no needs for funds as all governing bodies would be aware of all the equipment and supplies in reserve. For example lets say there is an accident, lets say a bulldozer is totalled, nobody has to pay for damages, sure value would have been lost but it is not a question of funds but finding use value to replace the use value destroyed.

[mikelepore]

Suppose, under capitalism, a company makes paper, and suppose the company needs to have some paper for its workers to use in the office. It doesn't have to buy it. It has the product transported from one department to another. That's how socialism would provide all industries with the resources they they needs to operate, by transfering the tools, materials, energy, etc. from the departments where they are made to the departments where they are used.

[JJM 777]

What will spur and pay for the production of new means of production in a socialist society
What will spur this? Awareness of the fact that our current factories and tools will break down one day, sooner or later, so we certainly will need new tools and factories. So the Socialist government will make careful plans how to take care of the foreseeable future needs.

What will "pay" this? As the government (or any other level of leadership) has made a budget of the investment needs in the next few years, they will budget resources for fulfilling these needs. In a monetary society, we can say that the pricing of products must have a profit margin that covers the expected investment needs of future years. In a moneyless society, we can say exactly the same thing using some other words.