PSL, IMT, ISO, or Kasama Joining a Party

[spiltteeth]

I'm kinda new to all this, live in NY, and if someone could help clarify or advise it would be just bully.
I should say that I believe we ought to create an atmosphere in which revolution can happen. To me that means trying to pass the Employee Free Choice Act, which would make it easy to create strong unions - necessary for mass organization.
So, I've narrowed it down to the PSL, IMT, ISO, or Kasama. Here's how I see them:
PSL seems full of energy and activity, but its bid for Mayor, especially with the Green Party's Rev Billy also running, seems misguided.
IMT has Alan Woods, is international, and has a strong web presence.
The ISO is pretty big, has prestige and alot of respected intellectuals backing it.
Kasama is a sort of flexible movement, new, not a party, comprised of alot of ex-RCP folk who are marxist-lenninist-Maoist with an open mind who recognize the need for a new application of communist theory and are trying to regroup and rethink what a revolutionary party should be.
Thanks for all the help! :che:

[Comrade Ian]

What sort of theoretical/political background are you coming from? There are pretty significant diffirences between those groups in terms of what/how they see working class revolution taking place, how they perceive ostensibly socialist states like China and North Korea, their view on fighting for reforms like EFC, etc.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

I believe we exchanged a couple posts on Kasama, good to see you're keeping options open and considering various groups.

Anyway I like the folks from PSL, though I have yet to work with them. I felt that they have a bad line on Iran and North Korea and I think place too much emphasis on solidarity with any regime that goes against American imperialism, but the cadre themselves are not dogmatic from my experience. They are active and their ANSWER coalition is probably one of the strongest anti-war organizations in the US. I think it's electoral campaigning is misguided as well, though I don't see it as any sincere reformism on their part. I value them as a genuinely revolutionary organization, albeit with many line problems.

I don't know jack about the IMT, so I can't say much. I would be cautious though, not just with Trotskyists like the IMT but with other tendencies as well, to avoid organizations that dogmatically apply any line of a historical leader. Not suggesting the IMT does or does not, but watch out for that as it is very prevalent in many groups, even when they say they do not.

The ISO has a really bad analysis of the history of socialist movements, asserting that the capitalist ruling class didn't even have to make anything up about the Soviet Union and China, they were that bad. Not a very scientific analysis, even if you have strong disagreement with those experiences. From what I've seen it is largely student based and does have a decent sized following, and I'm definitely not discouraging you from checking them out for yourself.

Obviously I'm biased toward Kasama since that's my folks, but let me tell you why I like it. I appreciate the fact that we question all premises; we don't hesitate to discuss both positive and negative experiences of the socialist movement. We are diverse in our ideas and we engage in principled struggle over our differences; many of my views have changed and become more advanced since I've been working with Kasama, and I feel that I am able to connect better with people. We don't dismiss ideas based on where they're coming from, and we're non-sectarian and work with people of many tendencies, parties, and organizations. I like the fact that we're flexible A LOT and I think that rigid democratic centralism is a thing of the past. I'm for unity of ACTION, not unity of thought. We sound like robots if we all pretend to have the exact same views on everything. We have a group of folks in NY as well, for your convenience ;-).

Regarding the Employee Free Choice Act, I don't know too much about it but keep in mind that unions are not necessarily as helpful for a revolutionary movement as they were back in the '30s. A lot of unions have sold out their workers by becoming nothing more than a liaison between workers and their employer. I won't go as far as to say that nothing that happens politically in our present government can help us build a revolutionary movement, but our emphasis needs to be placed on radicalizing the workers and people in general, not hoping for more pro-capitalist unions to take foot. Maybe somebody with more knowledge of union history can give you a better explanation?

Hope this all helps!!! Keep in mind that working with Kasama does not preclude you from working with other groups. We encourage folks that get down with us to also be involved elsewhere, so even if you're doing revolutionary work with our folks, that doesn't mean you can't meet and protest with cats from PSL as well!

[Q]

The IMT may have a strong web presence, but Socialist Alternative (http://socialistalternative.org) (part of the Committee for a Workers' International (http://socialistworld.net) - the international that the IMT splitted from in the early 1990's) has an actual presence is New York. You might want to check them out.

Welcome to the forum :)

[Taboo Tongue]

I wouldn't join any of those. I haven't ran into the IMT out here in SF yet but... If you don't know; I would kind of distance myself from all of them actually. Read for 2 hours a day on Marxism and the different currents.
All of those groups are going to try and steer you in their direction. Which they can't help but to do, just being people.
Maybe meet with all of them and keep the idea of waiting to join anything close by. I read about Marxism for 4 years (not nearly often enough during those 4 years though) and I moved back to the Bay Area but am overall disappointed with the Left out here. By far the most impressive groups to me are the small ones, with real militants; not assholes who like to have meetings and pay membership dues.
I don't know how much different it is in NY but stay critical.

Edit:
Try reading Stalin\ist on Trostky\ist (PSL\Kasama on IMT\ISO), Mao\ist on Stalin (Kasama on PSL), and Trotsky on Stalin (IMT\ISO on PSL\Kasama).
Personally I'm not a fan of Trotsky, Stalin, or Mao. More agreements with deceased Trots than the others above, but try reading Anton Pannekoek and Rosa Luxemburg too.
Maybe none of them were right, and you should form your own thought based of Marx & Engels.

[Kassad]

Before I try to go into detail about the Party for Socialism and Liberation, I'd like to comprehend your position a little more. What is it exactly that troubles you about Frances Villar's campaign for mayor?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Try joining the Socialist Party USA and/or the Workers' Party in America.

[Jimmie Higgins]

The best way to decide is to narrow it down first by reading each groups materials or info on their websites. For example, there was a PSL critique of the ISO on China and if you read both that article and the original one from the ISO's Socialist Worker, you can get a sense of where each stands on China.

Once you've narrowed it down to one or two, see if you can go to a meeting and be open about your questions and concerns.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

Try joining the Socialist Party USA and/or the Workers' Party in America.

Lmao @ Jacob Richter.... At least give dude a REASON why he should join one of these groups as opposed to the others he already listed haha.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

Edit:
Try reading Stalin\ist on Trostky\ist (PSL\Kasama on IMT\ISO), Mao\ist on Stalin (Kasama on PSL), and Trotsky on Stalin (IMT\ISO on PSL\Kasama).
Personally I'm not a fan of Trotsky, Stalin, or Mao. More agreements with deceased Trots than the others above, but try reading Anton Pannekoek and Rosa Luxemburg too.
Maybe none of them were right, and you should form your own thought based of Marx & Engels.

I just wanted to point out real quick that a lot of people around Kasama, including myself, do not uphold Stalin and there are some, not including myself, who do not uphold Mao either... We're not a monolithic group to be pigeon-holed into "Stalin\ist", though I understand the assumption. We actually have an interesting discussion going on right now where we're talking about socialist democracy and the one-party state, check it out! (sorry for the shameless plug, Stalin is a topic of controversy in the discussion though)

http://mikeely.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/on-socialist-democratic-forms-snowflakes-the-restoration-of-capitalism/

[JimmyJazz]

The IMT may have a strong web presence, but Socialist Alternative (http://socialistalternative.org/) (part of the Committee for a Workers' International (http://socialistworld.net/) - the international that the IMT splitted from in the early 1990's) has an actual presence is New York. You might want to check them out.

Welcome to the forum :)

I agree with Q - I'm not a Trotskyist, but if Socialist Alternative had a presence in my area, I'd be working with them. I like them better than either the PSL or the ISO (who are both in my area).

And generally speaking, I like the analysis of the CWI-affiliated Trotskyists on Revleft better than that of the IMT or IST/ISO affiliated ones.

Unlike the PSL, I think that Socialist Alternative make a real attempt to connect with the working class around working class issues--instead of just preaching to them about imperialism. Like this: Fast Food Worker Manifesto (http://www.socialistalternative.org/publications/fastfood/).

On the ISO, I agree word for word with what Culture of a Peachy Nation said about them.

Of course, it could just be that I've made contact with the PSL and ISO (hence I've had the opportunity to have my illusions shattered!) and haven't made it with SA because they're not in my local area. But even if my impression were just based on the articles put out on the web by all three groups, I'd still prefer the CWI/Socialist Alternative over the others.

With regard to the PSL, their position on Iran is, imo, absolutely horrible (they all but condemn the protests, and they actually make a big point out of the fact that they think Ahmadinejad won the bourgeois elections--as if that matters), so that has totally disillusioned me with them. I had a long discussion with two members of my local branch about the Iran issue, and it did nothing to clarify what the PSL's online articles said--if anything, I'd say that if the articles they've put out on Iran were shamefully low on solidarity for and interest in the protests, that in person these two high-ranking members were downright opposed to them and supported the repression of the protests (they defended the present communist-murdering Iranian regime as strongly preferable to the regime of 1953-1979--again, as if this really matters!).

If you have a strong opinion on the Iran uprisings, you can PM me and I'll give you the full conversation I had with them on the issue. The conversation was mostly online so I can copy you the text. Or I can tell you anything else about the PSL that I may be qualified to answer, because not only do I have the more experience with them than I do with other groups, but I also have a friend who was a party member for several years and he has given me some pretty sharp criticisms she has about the party's lack of internal democracy.

Kasama is a very cool website with some very good discussions (little to no mudslinging), but as far as I know, not much more than that. The IMT is hopelessly wedded to the existing conservative trade unions.

edit: if you were wondering, my avatar is a joke, I'm not a Maoist.

[PRC-UTE]

Try joining the Socialist Party USA and/or the Workers' Party in America.

The Socialist Party is a social democrat party, not Marxist, and this comrade said they're interested in Marxism.

[Lolshevik]

I'm kinda new to all this, live in NY, and if someone could help clarify or advise it would be just bully.
I should say that I believe we ought to create an atmosphere in which revolution can happen. To me that means trying to pass the Employee Free Choice Act, which would make it easy to create strong unions - necessary for mass organization.
So, I've narrowed it down to the PSL, IMT, ISO, or Kasama. Here's how I see them:
PSL seems full of energy and activity, but its bid for Mayor, especially with the Green Party's Rev Billy also running, seems misguided.
IMT has Alan Woods, is international, and has a strong web presence.
The ISO is pretty big, has prestige and alot of respected intellectuals backing it.
Kasama is a sort of flexible movement, new, not a party, comprised of alot of ex-RCP folk who are marxist-lenninist-Maoist with an open mind who recognize the need for a new application of communist theory and are trying to regroup and rethink what a revolutionary party should be.
Thanks for all the help! :che:

As some other comrades on this thread have already said, I would recommend Socialist Alternative. Like the IMT, we have an international perspective (we are the U.S. section of the Committee for a Workers' International after all), and we do have an orientation towards the trade unions as well, considering we support not only the passage of the EFCA but also struggle for the creation of a mass, class-independent workers party built upon the foundation of the trade unions.

Welcome to the movement, by the way. Whichever group you choose to affiliate to, it's always good to know we have one more communist out there, working to change the world. :)

[spiltteeth]

Wow, thanks for all the responses. From my stance, North Korea seems a nightmarish dictatorship, I’m rampantly anti-Stalinist, I do like a lot of Maoism, even though I hate the centralized state and his version of ‘permanent revolution.’ I think I support something that doesn’t exist yet! – An American communism, the way Chavez made a uniquely Bolivarian revolution. Basically, if Lenin and Eugene Debs had a baby who then started a revolutionary group that took into consideration the unique new situation we’re in and opportunities exposed by Negri/Zizek etc, and followed Zizek’s advice “one should follow the unsurpassed model of Pascal and ask the difficult question: how are we to remain faithful to the old in the new conditions? Only in this way can we generate something effectively new”, with the ultimate goal (even if perhaps it could never exist in reality) of a Rosa Luxemburg type society, with the excitement, joy, openness, and creativity of the Situationist’s and anarchist organizations, without scaring people away by dogmatic militarism, while gaining adherents how the Left used too i.e. creating a common vision to fight for instead of using anger and exclusively focusing on injustices and shame a la’ Bob Avakian; I would join it.
In other words – I’m very confused.
I think I’ll take the suggestion of learning a lot more and doing some hard reading.

I’m not sure what the PSL is hoping to achieve with its Nominee for Mayor, they can’t win and Rev Billy is gonna get most of the attention, but I’m very open-minded.
Most Unions are corporate run by sleazy lawyers, but if the Employee Free Choice passes workers can form ACTUAL unions with real power.
Again, thanks so much for the welcome !

[Nwoye]

The Socialist Party is a social democrat party, not Marxist, and this comrade said they're interested in Marxism.
having looked into joining the Socialist Party, could you please explain why you feel that way?

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

Kasama is a very cool website with some very good discussions (little to no mudslinging), but as far as I know, not much more than that.

We're actually starting to move beyond the internet now, though obviously it's a process and we are still primarily internet based. A lot of people that work with us on our online projects, including myself, work with other organizations on the ground and use those experiences to strengthen Kasama as a whole until we are more established. I believe our NY people do actually have real face-to-face discussions though.

JimmyJazz, why don't you ever post in the discussions on Kasama man? It's always good to get different angles and opinions on our articles.

[heiss93]

What about the Communist Party USA?

[Comrade Ian]

From what you describe I would highly recommend reading a pamphlet by Hal Draper, The Two Souls of Socialism (I can't link to it yet but you can google "Two Souls Of Socialism", it's at the Marxist Internet Archive) which goes through some of the history of the socialist movement and tries to bring out the core of Marxism as being the radical democratic self-emancipation of the working class, in the tradition of Marx, Debs, Luxembourg and Lenin.

If you agree with that pamphlet I'd recommend looking into the ISO, as we come from a similar tradition and many of our members (Including myself) strongly align with much of Draper's vision.

[Kassad]

First of all, it's great to see you want to be involved with a revolutionary party. As compared to joining the corporate Republican and Democratic parties, joining a revolutionary party is a serious commitment. I think everyone in this thread has done a good job explaining a lot about their organizations, so let me give you my perspective as a member of the Party for Socialism and Liberation.

Since you mentioned Frances Villar's campaign for mayor of New York City, I'll address that first. Don't think for a second that we expect to win that election. Regardless, winning is the least of our concerns. We run in the bourgeois elections to promote the ideology of revolutionary Marxism and the need for a proletarian revolution. Though some "progressive" candidates may be running, such as the Green Party candidate you mentioned, no candidates besides Frances Villar are running based on a socialist platform, spare maybe the Socialist Workers Party, but they're irrelevant. The campaign for New York City mayor, along with Carlos Alvarez's campaign for mayor of Los Angeles and the multiple other campaigns we ran in 2008, are not intended to gain electoral strength. As revolutionaries, we realize that bourgeois elections will not bring radical change to the system, but we use the elections as a means of appealing to the working class and other revolutionaries to support our party and revolutionary politics. Since so much attention is focused on these elections, it'd be foolish not to use them to the best of our abilities.

You can read an article from the party regarding why we are running in the elections here: http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7879

As I'm sure you know, our party is very new. We just celebrated our five-year anniversary a couple of weeks ago. The PSL is a Marxist-Leninist party that is active in struggles nationwide. From the struggle to end all imperialist occupations worldwide, to the fight to free The Cuban Five, the PSL is there to promote revolutionary change. The PSL is also an active member of the ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) Coalition, which I feel confident in saying is the most active and only anti-imperialist group of the many anti-war coalitions. Our party is greatly influenced by the works of Sam Marcy who consistently took an anti-imperialist stance in his politics. If you have any specific questions as to the PSL's political and theoretical line, please don't hesitate to ask.

You can find a brief introduction to our party here: http://www.pslweb.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AboutUs

The PSL's New York branch is very active. They have meetings all the time and I think visiting the branch and attending a meeting is the quickest way to get a feel for the party. You can call the branch to talk to a party representative as well.

Here's some details about the New York branch and how to contact it: http://www.pslweb.org/site/PageServer?pagename=NewYork

Also, on the forum here, you should contact Manic Expression. He's a relatively new member of the PSL and I believe he's in the area. I'm sure he could give a more detailed description of the party's work in New York.

I hope this helped clear things up for you. Feel free to ask any questions about the party and I'll be sure to get back to you.

[PRC-UTE]

having looked into joining the Socialist Party, could you please explain why you feel that way?

Have you seen/heard their spokesperson, the fellow who ran for President? He made some of their own members/supporters cringe. Look him up on youtube if you don't know what I mean.

[Kassad]

having looked into joining the Socialist Party, could you please explain why you feel that way?

Socialist Party USA is a social-democratic organization. They call for 'democratic revolution,' which is a thinly-veiled means of saying that they support socialism through electoral victory. On their website, it says that when socialists are a 'majority' in the capitalist legislature, they can begin to make change that benefits the working class. This is plain reformism, as it rejects proletarian revolution, and thus rejects Marxism. If the original poster is interested in a Marxist party, Socialist Party USA is not what he is seeking.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Have you seen/heard their spokesperson, the fellow who ran for President? He made some of their own members/supporters cringe. Look him up on youtube if you don't know what I mean.

Are you saying that SP-USA is more right-wing that Die Linke? :confused: Brian Moore, a small businessperson, doesn't have any organizational clout.

[JimmyJazz]

if Lenin and Eugene Debs had a baby

:lol:

That would be one cool kid. And I would join his party.


JimmyJazz, why don't you ever post in the discussions on Kasama man? It's always good to get different angles and opinions on our articles.

I have once or twice - on wordpress I go by therebelwaltz. When I have, I've usually been surprised what a good response I got: very knowledgeable, and very comradely.


Socialist Party USA

Here are their "Principles", which you must agree with to join, in full:


THE SOCIALIST PARTY strives to establish a radical democracy that places people's lives under their own control -- a non-racist, classless, feminist, socialist society in which people cooperate at work, at home, and in the community.

Socialism is not mere government ownership, a welfare state, or a repressive bureaucracy. Socialism is a new social and economic order in which workers and consumers control production and community residents control their neighborhoods, homes, and schools. The production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few. Socialism produces a constantly renewed future by not plundering the resources of the earth.

Under capitalist and "Communist" states, people have little control over fundamental areas of their lives. The capitalist system forces workers to sell their abilities and skills to the few who own the workplaces, profit from these workers' labor, and use the government to maintain their privileged position. Under "Communist" states, decisions are made by Communist Party officials, the bureaucracy and the military. The inevitable product of each system is a class society with gross inequality of privileges, a draining of the productive wealth and goods of the society into military purposes, environmental pollution, and war in which workers are compelled to fight other workers.

People across the world need to cast off the systems which oppress them, and build a new world fit for all humanity. Democratic revolutions are needed to dissolve the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government. By revolution we mean a radical and fundamental change in the structure and quality of economic, political, and personal relations. The building of socialism requires widespread understanding and participation, and will not be achieved by an elite working "on behalf of" the people. The working class is in a key and central position to fight back against the ruling capitalist class and its power. The working class is the major force worldwide that can lead the way to a socialist future – to a real radical democracy from below.

Some people get frustrated with groups like the ICC for "abandoning" the Communist countries and supposedly being too idealist in their expectations. But every revolutionary group, including the left communists, provides an explanation for the failure of the Communist countries to achieve an ideal socialist society--the failure of a world revolution and the burden of imperialist encirclement being the main factor.

The SPUSA offers no such explanation. They simply put it down to the anti-democratic nature of (quotes theirs) "Communism".

So yes, they are a social democratic group.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The SP-USA doesn't offer any such "explanation" because that leads to sectarianism, which has plagued the left primarily on "the Russian question."

The principles put "Communist" in quotation marks and with a capital-C for a reason. In other words, what is clearly hinted at isn't the small-c communism we're familiar with.

[OriginalGumby]

A few things about the ISO:
First is that we have a large student base because that is where we have maintained ourselves through the cold war and right wing time that coincided with the employers offensive during the time period since the end of the social upheavals of the 60s-70s. It was a logical decision at the time and we were able to keep our organization alive and actually grow while many other organizations disappeared or shrunk. So here we are now with some branches focused on campuses with many student members and quite a few former students who are now in the workforce and city based branches. I believe we have 70 overall in the US and Puerto Rico. The position we are in now is quite good because we will be able to build and shape the social movements in both places and win many more to socialism. Our past decisions have paid off and we are the largest revolutionary socialist organization in the US. Im not exactly sure where our numbers are at since we have been growing quite a bit since the year started and we just had two large and successful conferences that drew a total of 1800 people in Chicago and San Franciso.

We don't just participate in student activism and I am weary of dogmatism about this. Many social movements have a dynamic mixing of student and worker radicalism that results in explosions of activity. France in 1968 where student radicals won the support of workers that resulted in a general strike. The Russian Revolution where a largely student and intellectual organization fused revolutionary socialist ideas with the working class movement recruiting many worker intellectuals into the Bolshevik party that led the insurrection.

Also I think that movements that we participate in such as healthcare, antiwar, immigrants rights, anti-death penalty and LGBT equality are working class issues that we should be fighting around. LGBT equality for example involves fighting for no job discrimination, for health care insurance, and fighting basic repression that divides the working class. We absolutly need to orient on this stuff and it would be a mistake to not do so in the name of a narrow definition of workers struggles. However we totally are involvled in workplace struggles either supporting or participating in unions. A large number of comrades are involved in and often leading rank and file caucouses in teachers unions against budget cuts and we had folks from other workplace struggles at our conferences.

The last thing I want to say is that if socialism is going to mean anything it has to be socialism from below. That is working class democratic control of the economy. This is why we do not support countries where this is not the case as socialist. And frankly much of the stories about Stalinist Russia are true and the existing governments of China, North Korea, and Cuba are not things we should emulate. Of course we don't support US or any countries imperial ambitions against these countries because we are internationalists, we fight for an international working class revolution against capitalism and that means supporting legitamate workers struggles in many countries that fancy to call themselves socialist or communist. For the ISO socialism is acheived by the self emanicpation of the working class and not by "Communist" states. For this reason we support the Iran pro-democracy movement for what it can achieve in radicalizing real people and winning reforms that can make it easier to fight for socialism while other organizations including the PSL sadly see it as helping the US and reject it. We want to fight alongside people we disagree with for our collective liberation while being open and honest about disagreements and having them in a comradely way.

I really do hope you consider the ISO as the right organization for you because in my experience being a member for a few years I believe that we are on the right track to putting socialism back on the agenda. Here are a few links that can provide more info about who we are.

A pamphet with the politics of the ISO
http://www.internationalsocialist.org/pdfs/WhereWeStandPamphlet.pdf

Newspaper
http://socialistworker.org/

Magazine with more indepth stuff
http://www.isreview.org/

NYC site with contact info
http://www.nycsocialist.org/

Much Solidarity,
Ben

[JimmyJazz]

The SP-USA doesn't offer any such "explanation" because that leads to sectarianism, which has plagued the left primarily on "the Russian question."

The principles put "Communist" in quotation marks and with a capital-C for a reason. In other words, what is clearly hinted at isn't the small-c communism we're familiar with.

Jacob, to say that the failure of socialism has overwhelmingly been the result of imperialist encirclement and the failure of a world revolution does not produce sectarian disagreement. All revolutionaries agree on that point. Why doesn't the SPUSA?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Because you'd be sectarian relative to well-intentioned "anti-revisionists."

[manic expression]

I’m not sure what the PSL is hoping to achieve with its Nominee for Mayor, they can’t win and Rev Billy is gonna get most of the attention, but I’m very open-minded.

Hi, sorry for the late response on this. As someone who's been working for the Frances Villar campaign in NYC for the last week and a half, I'd like to add a few things for consideration. First, like Kassad said, we don't expect to win, and I've personally heard Frances repeatedly say that she doesn't want to win.

Most importantly, though, even though we're still in the process of getting on the ballot through petitions (which takes 7,500 signatures, but we're getting double just to be sure), we've already gotten important attention from workers all around the city. Thousands and thousands of workers in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens (especially Jamaica), Washington Heights and elsewhere have heard the PSL's message of revolutionary change and have concretely contributed to our right to appear on the ballot in order to challenge Bloomberg and capitalism. Even now, the message is spreading: I've personally seen hundreds of workers get visibly excited by our platform and our message right in front of my eyes, and I have no doubt that all of them will strongly consider giving Frances Villar, and revolutionary socialism, their vote this November. That is definitely a gain for the cause of the working class.

The mayorial elections this year are a unique opportunity to propagate the politics of revolutionary socialism in NYC. Many New Yorkers are frustrated with Bloomberg, and the Democrats are so intimidated by Bloomberg's pockets that they aren't running a serious campaign against him. We have the chance to really show NYC workers that there IS an alternative to all the things they are oppressed by; we can show them that police brutality, gentrification, rising transportation costs and other problems are all symptoms of capitalism and that revolution is the true answer.

After all, the Bolsheviks ran in bourgeois elections and took office through them, but they used them almost exclusively as a platform through which to reach the workers. We, as communists, need to go to where the workers are, and right now workers are thinking about this November's elections...why not get them thinking about socialism, too?

[Revy]

Once again, the SPUSA does not put "Communist" in quotes because we oppose Communism. We put Communist in quotes like anyone would put something sarcastically in quotes - because we do not view those regimes as genuinely communist. Unless you are some hardcore Stalinist then you shouldn't either. Nonetheless, we have recognized the failures inherent in the wording AND are going to change that soon in the Convention this year.

We have also removed ourselves from UFPJ recently, and have involved ourselves in the National Assembly instead.

Some of you are just ridiculously vicious.

[PRC-UTE]

I'm kinda new to all this, live in NY, and if someone could help clarify or advise it would be just bully.
I should say that I believe we ought to create an atmosphere in which revolution can happen. To me that means trying to pass the Employee Free Choice Act, which would make it easy to create strong unions - necessary for mass organization.
So, I've narrowed it down to the PSL, IMT, ISO, or Kasama. Here's how I see them:
PSL seems full of energy and activity, but its bid for Mayor, especially with the Green Party's Rev Billy also running, seems misguided.
IMT has Alan Woods, is international, and has a strong web presence.
The ISO is pretty big, has prestige and alot of respected intellectuals backing it.
Kasama is a sort of flexible movement, new, not a party, comprised of alot of ex-RCP folk who are marxist-lenninist-Maoist with an open mind who recognize the need for a new application of communist theory and are trying to regroup and rethink what a revolutionary party should be.
Thanks for all the help! :che:

In your area there is also Partisans of World Revoltion. Small yet active, with the best line, imo

http://www.revleft.com/vb/join-powr-t113511/index.html

[JimmyJazz]

Because you'd be sectarian relative to well-intentioned "anti-revisionists."

Well, we can just agree to disagree. But I have met exceedingly few anti-revisionists who think that the USSR was an ideal example of socialism and could not have been better. They just take a 'force of circumstances' view of why the leadership made the decisions it made, and unlike Trotskyists, extend this argument to Stalin instead of just Lenin and the civil war leadership. I don't agree with it, but I think that's what it is.

[Raúl Duke]

Of all these...I say that the more interesting ones are Kasama (although a bit "Maoist" for me...they are quite an "open" group so you are probably not forced to accept everything Maoist) and maybe this PoWR group I heard about. I use to think the PSL was good till their position on Iran changed my mind.

All this in terms of socialist/communist parties mind...in general terms I would prefer to join the AFED, NEFAC, etc.

But then again, what should I know about this? I'm just an anarchist...

[Asoka89]

If I were you I would join the SP-USA or Solidarity. Out of the groups you listed the ISO (the IMT basically doesnt have a presence in the US)

[redasheville]

If I were you I would join the SP-USA or Solidarity. Out of the groups you listed the ISO (the IMT basically doesnt have a presence in the US)

The Workers International League, the IMT section in the US, is active in a number of cities (including here in SF, where they organize in the immigrant rights movement). They're small, and had a split in the last year, but they definitely have a presence in the US.

[RHIZOMES]

Hi, sorry for the late response on this. As someone who's been working for the Frances Villar campaign in NYC for the last week and a half, I'd like to add a few things for consideration. First, like Kassad said, we don't expect to win, and I've personally heard Frances repeatedly say that she doesn't want to win.

Most importantly, though, even though we're still in the process of getting on the ballot through petitions (which takes 7,500 signatures, but we're getting double just to be sure), we've already gotten important attention from workers all around the city. Thousands and thousands of workers in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens (especially Jamaica), Washington Heights and elsewhere have heard the PSL's message of revolutionary change and have concretely contributed to our right to appear on the ballot in order to challenge Bloomberg and capitalism. Even now, the message is spreading: I've personally seen hundreds of workers get visibly excited by our platform and our message right in front of my eyes, and I have no doubt that all of them will strongly consider giving Frances Villar, and revolutionary socialism, their vote this November. That is definitely a gain for the cause of the working class.

The mayorial elections this year are a unique opportunity to propagate the politics of revolutionary socialism in NYC. Many New Yorkers are frustrated with Bloomberg, and the Democrats are so intimidated by Bloomberg's pockets that they aren't running a serious campaign against him. We have the chance to really show NYC workers that there IS an alternative to all the things they are oppressed by; we can show them that police brutality, gentrification, rising transportation costs and other problems are all symptoms of capitalism and that revolution is the true answer.

After all, the Bolsheviks ran in bourgeois elections and took office through them, but they used them almost exclusively as a platform through which to reach the workers. We, as communists, need to go to where the workers are, and right now workers are thinking about this November's elections...why not get them thinking about socialism, too?

This is pretty much my party's line in NZ on bourgeois elections. I feel your pain in getting shit from leftists for running in elections, it's the most logical action and provides a platform for revolutionary socialism.

[RHIZOMES]

The question isn't one of running in elections. It's how it is done.

Running in a bourgeois election can be a valid tactic for revolutionaries in certain situations, but running in a bourgeois election on a reformist platform is never valid.

Exactly. What's the point running on a reformist platform if you consider yourself revolutionary? The Workers Party candidates would always use the platform given to them in debates, government-paid and produced TV advertisements (If you are a registered party to get an allocated amount of TV and radio airtime), as a chance to point out the flaws in capitalism and offering a revolutionary alternative:

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Contrast that to the RAM election broadcast, a "broad front" RESPECT-clone set up by the IST branch in NZ:

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A lot of the things they advocate are progressive within a capitalist system, sure. But not a single bit questions capitalism, or workers exploitation (Closest thing is a brief mention of unrestricted right to strike, which there had even been fucking debate about in the party). Totally 100% left-social democratic positions and a few nationalist ones as well (Anyone who even thinks we should "enshrine" the Treaty of Waitangi is not a real far leftist).