???

[Comrade_Josh]

How come there are so many different idealolgies on the left wouldnt it be hard for a communist and an anarchist to get along

[Q]

Sectarianism, betrayals and fundamental disagreement got the better of us.

[scarletghoul]

theyre not really differant ideololgies, thats a misleading word. most of them only differ on a few issues. ideologically, they are all the same because theyre all about creating classless society where the proletariat rules

[Comrade_Josh]

well then wouldnt it be more effiecient to all combine under one roof and make a new ideology that combines all of them

[Nwoye]

well then wouldnt it be more effiecient to all combine under one roof and make a new ideology that combines all of them
good idea. we could call it "socialism"

[Comrade_Josh]

isnt socialism the step before communism in marx's dialectics theory and there is still seperation between the different ideals

[ZeroNowhere]

well then wouldnt it be more effiecient to all combine under one roof and make a new ideology that combines all of themNo, because that would not be possible. If, when asked a question, one says 'Yes' and the other 'No', then there's no actual room to combine them. This reminds me of some earlier post in Revleft during a discussion on consensual democracy. Somebody gave an example of how it could work out on abortion along these lines:
If you proposed unrestricted access to abortion, then you couldn't get a consensus due to 'pro-life' people and something different would have to be proposed. If you proposed abortion restricted to the first trimester, you would probably get less opposition, but still not a consensus. Then we would have a vote on abortion being restricted to the case of rape, and you would get a consensus, and there would be no tyranny of the majority!
I'm sure you could see what is wrong with this illustration. The same thing applies to socialist currents, for example, you can't combine council communism with De Leonism (unless you were to say that anarcho-syndicalism, seeing as it doesn't involve partying, and uses industrial unionism, would serve as a combination, but it seems that neither De Leonists nor council communists agree with anarcho-syndicalists, so that's merely taking a few positions from both and chucking them with others which they would disagree with rather than a combination).


How come there are so many different idealolgies on the leftBecause people happen to have different opinions.


isnt socialism the step before communism in marx's dialectics theory and there is still seperation between the different idealsMarx used 'socialism' and 'communism' as synonyms when referring to social systems, the 'step' before communism is revolution. And that has nothing to do with Hegelianism.


wouldnt it be hard for a communist and an anarchist to get alongNo, especially seeing as most anarchists are communists.

[scarletghoul]

isnt socialism the step before communism in marx's dialectics theory and there is still seperation between the different ideals

well both words communism and socialism have a few meanings each

there is the marxist stages of history where sociallism comes first then communism, but theres also the thoeries/ideologies, where socialism is generally used as a broad term encompassing various proletarian ideologies including anarchism and communism

[Comrade_Josh]

No, especially seeing as most anarchists are communists.
Then why wouldnt an anarchist just say he is communist

[Sasha]

to make the essential distinction with both autoritarian and statist "communists"

[Comrade_Josh]

well how can an anarchist be a communist when he says he is an anarchist to differentiate himself from a communist

[LeninBalls]

well how can an anarchist be a communist when he says he is an anarchist to differentiate himself from a communist

Because today communism is generally associated with Marxism, something anarchists don't fully adhere to.

[Sasha]

its very simple;
most self identifying anarchist (everybody except the indivudalists and the anarcappies) are communist
most self identifying communist (lenninst, trotskysts, stalinists, councel and left communists) are not anarchist

all cars are are an form of transport but not all forms of transport are cars

[Comrade_Josh]

well then would zeronowheres statement be false

[Sasha]

no its not;
again, (most) anarchists are commies but most commies are not anarchist

a pear is an fruit but not al fruit are pears

[Comrade_Josh]

ok i understand

[Manifesto]

good idea. we could call it "socialism"
Is that not the main difference between them? Anarchists want to skip the step of Socialism to remove State immediately. While others like Leninists, etc. believe that Socialism is an essential step to Communism.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Is that not the main difference between them? Anarchists want to skip the step of Socialism to remove State immediately. While others like Leninists, etc. believe that Socialism is an essential step to Communism.

Yes, because having a transition helps to develop the right conditions for Communism. Just because there's necessary conditions for revolution at the time, it doesn't mean there's the necessary conditions for Communism. Russia is a great example. There were plenty of conditions for revolution. An unpopular Tsarist regime, a war which Russia was having a massive amount of casualties in, and large amounts of poverty to just name a few. However, it had a backwards feudal system which would have never been able to support Communism on it's own. They needed time to develop their economy. Same in many countries today even. They may be really well off in one area of industry, but doing poorly in another. There can be time to develop that(partly why an international revolution is needed. It can help for countries to develop trade relations before the borders are eliminated). Also, the transition would help too just for society to adjust to the changes. :) I think that would definitely help.

[Misanthrope]

They have a common goal bro.

[LOLseph Stalin]

They have a common goal bro.

I know. They both want a stateless, classless society, but us Communists want a transition stage.

[Misanthrope]

I know. They both want a stateless, classless society, but us Communists want a transition stage.

I think we, as leftists, should look at the present era as a transition. Constantly reforming, organizing and educating. Rather than after a revolution, we organize another state and say, "okay, this time it will be different".

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I know. They both want a stateless, classless society, but us Communists want a transition stage.

Yes and Anarchists agree with Communists on this also. This seems to be a common argument that Marxists use against the ideology of Anarchism. Of course we believe a transitionary stage is necessary, it is completely naive to assume that a true communist society will be established in an instant and equally naive for people to assume Anarchists believe this. The real difference is the nature of this transitionary stage.

[sanpal]

Yes and Anarchists agree with Communists on this also. This seems to be a common argument that Marxists use against the ideology of Anarchism. Of course we believe a transitionary stage is necessary, it is completely naive to assume that a true communist society will be established in an instant and equally naive for people to assume Anarchists believe this. The real difference is the nature of this transitionary stage.
Well, where do Anarchists place a transition stage: before Revolution or after it?

[revolution inaction]

Well, where do Anarchists place a transition stage: before Revolution or after it?

the revolution is the transition

[1.618]

The real difference is the nature of this transitionary stage.

What would be the nature of the communist transistion phase, and the anarchist transition phase?

[Stranger Than Paradise]

What would be the nature of the communist transistion phase, and the anarchist transition phase?

The Marxist transitionary stage is the dictatorship of the proletariat.

The Anarchist transitionary stage is not set out, it is the time after revolution. Of course at this stage we will not have defeated capitalism, Marxism claims we must use the state at this point in time as an organ of class rule. Anarchism states this can only lead to capitalism re-emerging. Therefore the transitionary stage in Anarchism will not retain the state however we do not think that this is the be all end all, abolishing the state. We will not have formed a true communist society yet.

[ComradeOm]

To clarify, the dictatorship of the proletariat is the period following the revolution in which the working class is ascendant but classes still exist. Compare to the current 'dictatorship of the bourgeoisie'


Of course at this stage we will not have defeated capitalism, Marxism claims we must use the state at this point in time as an organ of class ruleIncorrect. According to Marxists, a socialist revolution will see the abolition of the bourgeois state and the construction of a proletarian state. We are not laying our hands on an old state but building a new one

[NecroCommie]

To clarify, the dictatorship of the proletariat is the period following the revolution in which the working class is ascendant but classes still exist. Compare to the current 'dictatorship of the bourgeoisie'

Incorrect. According to Marxists, a socialist revolution will see the abolition of the bourgeois state and the construction of a proletarian state. We are not laying our hands on an old state but building a new one
Agreed, and in addition the workers state is nothing like the states of the old. It will be ultimately democratic, both politically and economically.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Sorry, what both NecroCommie and ComradeOm stated about the Workers State is what I meant to include in my explanation.

[zerozerozerominusone]

[Russia] needed time to develop their economy.


They had over 80 years. Last I recall, the results left something to be desired.

[LeninKobaMao]

It's sad that the left are divided but oh well. I myself am a Marxist-Leninist(Stalinist) except I have many Trotskyist friends and we get along well. This type of "reconciliation" is happening with a lot of leftists and I think it's good to see.