i'm in some big metaphysical trouble!

[dogfooddi]

i want to think about these things but it's totally bringing me down. last night i was brought to tears about the thought of "what if i had been born in rwanda and had my arm hacked off and why can i not be happy with my life as it is? i've got it great! but i feel like crap!"
how do others deal with metaphysical turmoil? i've tried drinking every night but that doesn't work.

[New Tet]

i want to think about these things but it's totally bringing me down. last night i was brought to tears about the thought of "what if i had been born in rwanda and had my arm hacked off and why can i not be happy with my life as it is? i've got it great! but i feel like crap!"
how do others deal with metaphysical turmoil? i've tried drinking every night but that doesn't work.

Your problem seems to be more existential than metaphysical. Nightly bouts of tequila and mariachi music ought to soothe the pain, at least temporarily. Wild, unprotected sex with multiple strangers in filthy back-alleys can help too but it does not address the dread of being a recently maimed Rwandan. I recommend seeing an analyst, one who you are sure is a repressed German homosexual with sado-masochistic tendencies and who collects severely inbred chihuahuas. Only he can prescribe the right medication. Good luck!

[LOLseph Stalin]

i want to think about these things but it's totally bringing me down. last night i was brought to tears about the thought of "what if i had been born in rwanda and had my arm hacked off and why can i not be happy with my life as it is? i've got it great! but i feel like crap!"
how do others deal with metaphysical turmoil? i've tried drinking every night but that doesn't work.

You know, I have similar thoughts sometimes. I constantly feel like crap because It's nearly impossible for me to get a job under the Capitalist system. I feel like a failure because I'm the only unemployed person out of my group of friends, yet I know there's people out there who are worse off. I have food to eat, I have a roof over my head, I have generally all the basic neccesities while there's many people who don't.

[dogfooddi]

nonono, i'm already over the existential thing, i've already asserted my being on this earth, now i'm trying to discover the mechanics of why. maybe that means i'm evolving? errr.....
the question is, are you trying to find a REAL salary w/ benefits job? because if not, there will always be demand for a pizza boy. and it pays alright from what i've heard.

[LOLseph Stalin]

nonono, i'm already over the existential thing, i've already asserted my being on this earth, now i'm trying to discover the mechanics of why. maybe that means i'm evolving? errr.....
the question is, are you trying to find a REAL salary w/ benefits job? because if not, there will always be demand for a pizza boy. and it pays alright from what i've heard.

I worked at a pizza place once. I actually can't do fast food jobs. I just simply can't keep up. It's too fast paced. My mom said the same thing(she's generally stuck doing minimum wage too). And it seriously tells you something when places like McDonald's won't even hire me. Anyway, back to the stuff about you. I really don't think anybody really knows their reason for being here. I think that each person discovers it with time what they have passions for. They come to feel that's their reason for being here, but oftentimes it could turn out not to be.

[dogfooddi]

the thing that sucks is that the service industry is hard. but i'm really good at it. part of the problem is that i don't want it to be my calling but i'm way better at remembering 8 people's dinner orders and mixing 20 long islands in 3 minutes than i am at writing well-planned essays. i'm chalking it up to cold hard cash as instant gratification. besides i don't like intellectuals all that much. probably because i'm soooort of one. we're all so whiny and miserable all the time. i like simple people whose emotions are easy to read.

[dogfooddi]

and don't worry SWI. you shouldn't feel like a failure at 18. that's when you should be getting drunk and contracting curable STDs. wait til you're out of your teens before you start worrying. i have premature wrinkles that way. in places nobody should have wrinkles.as they say, "yer young, lighten up!"

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Who says you have it great? You could have ten billion dollars and not have it great. You're not satisfied. If anything, you don't have it great. If you have 10 billion dollars and are miserable, you don't have it "great." Great is being satisfied with what you have.

Are you unsatisfied with what you have? It sounds like you aren't. If that's the case, your unhappy, why? I don't know. I'd suggest maybe it isn't the unhappiness of others that upsets you. We dwell on negative things when we're already upset.

When I'm happy, I can talk about the horrible conditions of third world nations without giving a shit (emotionally, not intellectually). It's only when I'm already miserable that it really bothers me.

[fabilius]

You´re just a good person. Don´t feel bad.

What might cure you is helping out with something which might make you feel like you really are a good person. Life is better if you feel like this sometimes.

I at least think so, or hope so, because occasionally I think I feel like you. (Although one can never be sure):)

[fiddlesticks]

i've had to deal with this before...and as a great friend once told me, "do what gets you psyched!"

i know this isn't much of a help. though i do hope you feel better :)

[dogfooddi]

dudes, there's so much pressure on us all the time to be "INDEE--VIJewELs" or whatever that is. i got it great. great boyfriend, make all my money in 8 hr shifts 3 times a week, i'm pretty goodlooking, do well in school, got to see Subhumans and Wiibowl all night long, awesome. know what the problem is?

i probably don't DESERVE it. i'm just a lucky fucker.

[Dean]

dudes, there's so much pressure on us all the time to be "INDEE--VIJewELs" or whatever that is. i got it great. great boyfriend, make all my money in 8 hr shifts 3 times a week, i'm pretty goodlooking, do well in school, got to see Subhumans and Wiibowl all night long, awesome. know what the problem is?

i probably don't DESERVE it. i'm just a lucky fucker.

You deserve better. A vast majority of our productive existence is subsumed into meaningless, destructive activies by the will of the capitalist system. In addition to this, human labour is not compensated accurately - most of the fruits of your labor are enjoyed by capitalists, not you.

The debtor system keeps you wanting while you have provided more than your share of labor. Rest assured that, while we have a moral obligation to destroy the systems of oppression that hurt Rwandans, you do not deserve less yourself.

[dogfooddi]

are deserving and earning two different things? ultimately, i really believe we all deserve a happy healthy life. in terms of earning it--and by this i mean paying your own dues to society--i think that people need to understand it. obviously different lives entail different experiences and different interpretations. when does it level off?
like, i just got off work now. i made about 25% in tips of what my business took in tonight. i'm lucky as shit, i get paid hourly under the table, charge what i want if i don't like someone's face, blah blah blah. i can get away with being unprofessional to a certain extent. i earned the money but did i deserve it? this is all in knots.
.....actually, it sounds here like i'm looking for some kind of validation but really that's not what i'm trying to get here.
how does one reconcile their means of existence with their bigger plans for themselves? most of those end up being pipe dreams, anyway. say i want to be the next angelina jolie? what's the rwandan's dream? to be adopted by angelina jolie? to not have to fear for their life anymore? but once you have that WHAT'S NEXT? what do you want once you've had that? does the personal evolution ever stop? can you live in the same house for 20 years without coming to resent it? can you be with the same person, hearing the same stories over and over and over again at dinner parties and not groan with contempt each time you hear the words "when we went skiing at massanutten this one winter"? why is it--no matter how old you get--family gatherings drive you out of your mind crazy? once you've hit the milestone, you say "is that all there is?" and wait for what's next. and even then, you can never look back because there's someone right around the corner who you used to know and while you're all like--oh, not this fucking beatles song again--they're still grooving and pregnant or something. and seem so excited about it. obviously you can't be happy if you don't want to be happy or you have managed to convince yourself somehow that there is some part of you yearning for something more. or something to justify your great success. like getting beat up all the time as a kid or having diabetes and then being able to pump your fist and yell "HAH! i showed YOU!"i guess that's the part that seems like it should make you DESERVING. the lower you are the higher you deserve to be. not like statuswise but in general terms of elation. earning it? just doesn't seem as karmic.

[RedRise]

Thinking about all the poverty and war and famine in the world makes me realize how truly lucky I am just to have a roof over my head, food and to be getting education (as a girl). Then I stop and wonder, how did it come to be me - as in me in this fantastic life - thinking how lucky I am and then I wonder how did it come to be me wondering how did it come to be me thinking how lucky I am...
...and at this point it becomes like the 'Hole in the Bucket' song. I think it's too hard to work out exactly why we are so lucky, we should just make the most of it and help other people! :)

[Nils T.]

Act I
Caligula, the new emperor, has left Roma after the death of his sister three days ago and is nowhere to be found. He has been sighted near the palace.


SCENE III
The stage remain deserted for a few seconds. Caligula furtively enters from the left. He seems astray, dirty, his hair is soaking wet and his legs muddied. He rubs his mouth with his hands. He steps towards the mirror in the back and stops at the first glimpse of his own image. He mutters a few unintelligible sentences, then go sit on the right of the stage, letting his arms hang between his parted legs. Helicon enters on the left, and then stops when he notices Caligula. He observes him silently. Caligula turns and sees him. A short time passes.


SCENE IV

HELICON, from across the stage.
Good morning, Gaius.

CALIGULA, appearing natural.
Cood morning, Helicon.
A silence.

HELICON
You seem exhausted.

CALIGULA
I walked a lot.

HELICON
Yes, your absence lasted a long time.
Silence.

CALIGULA
It was difficult to find.

HELICON.
What was ?

CALIGULA
What I wanted.

HELICON
And what did you want ?

CALICULA, still natural.
The moon.

HELICON.
What ?

CALIGULA
Yes, I wanted the moon.

HELICON
Oh.
Silence. Helicon walks closer.
What for ?

CALIGULA
Well ! That's one of the things I don't have.

HELICON
Certainly. And now, all is settled ?

CALIGULA
No, I couldn't get it.

HELICON
It is troublesome.

CALIGULA
Yes, that's why I am tired.
Pause.

CALIGULA
Helicon !

HELICON
Yes, Gaius.

CALIGULA
You think I am mad.

HELICON
You know that I never think. I am too intelligent for that.

CALIGULA
Yes. Anyway ! But I'm not and I really never been as reasonnable. Simply put, I suddenly felt the need for something impossible. (Pause.) Things, as they are, don't seem satisfying to me.

HELICON
That's a quite common opinion.

CALIGULA
That's true. But I did not know before. Now, I know. (Still natural.) This world as it is made is not supportable. I have therefore a need for the moon, or happiness, or maybe immortality, for something mad perhaps, but something that does not belong to this world.

HELICON
That's a sound reasoning. But, usually, one can't follow trough with it.

CALIGULA, now standing, but with the same simplicity.
You don't know that. It's because we never follow trough that nothing is obtained. But it may suffice to stay logical until the end.
He glances at Helicon.
I know what you're thinking, too. So much trouble for the death of a woman ! No, that's not it. True, I believe I remember that, some days ago, the woman I loved died. But what is love ? Not much. This death is nothing, I swear to you; it is only the sign of a truth that makes the moon a necessity for me. It's a very simple, very clear truth; somewhat inane, but hard to discover and a heavy weight to wear.

HELICON
And what is that truth, Gaius ?

CALIGULA, turning away, and with a neutral tone.
Men die and are not happy.

HELICON, after a silence.
Come now, Gaius, it's a truth with which one make do very well. Look around you. That's not something to keep them from having lunch.

CALIGULA, with a sudden craze.
Then it's that all around me is lies, and me, I want everyone to live with the truth ! And actually, I have the means to make them live among truths. Because I know what they're lacking, Helicon. They are deprived of knowledge, and they lack a professor who knows of what he is talking.

HELICON
Don't be offended, Gaius, of what I'm about to say. But you should rest first.

CALIGULA, sitting down, with a soft voice.
That's not possible, Helicon, that will never be possible again.

HELICON
And why is that not ?

CALIGULA
If I sleep, who will get me the moon ?

HELICON, after a silence.
That is true.
Caligula stands up with a visible effort.

CALIGULA
Listen, Helicon. I hear steps and the sound of voices. Keep silent and forget that you just saw me.

HELICON
Understood.
Caligula heads to the exit. He turns back.

CALIGULA
And, please, help me from now on.

HELICON
I've got no reason not to, Gaius. But I know many things and few things interest me. To what then can I help you ?

CALIGULA
To something impossible.

HELICON
I'll do for the best.
Caligula exits the stage. Scipio and Cæsonia enter quickly.


SCENE V

SCIPIO
No one is here. Didn't you see him, Helicon ?

HELICON
No.

CÆSONIA
Helicon, didn't he say anything to you before escaping ?

HELICON
I am not his confident, I am his spectator. It's wiser.

CÆSONIA
I beg you.

HELICON
Dear Cæsonia, Gaius is an idealist, everyone knows that. I might as well say that he didn't understood yet. I did, and that's why I don't care for anything. But if Gaius begins to understand, he's capable, on the contrary, with his good little heart, to care for everything. And God knows what that will cost us. But, if you'll excuse me, lunch !
He walks out.``

[Nils T.]

I don't think I made too much errors while translating this. Albert Camus - Caligula.

What I meant is that you don't deserve nothing. You're worth nothing. Your existence has no meaning, it will end soon and what you got in it won't make you happy.

It's simple and a little silly. You were lied to about the pursuit of happiness, about justice of all sorts, about the equal oppotunities stuff - and not just about the equal part, but also about the opportunity part, it is really no luck being succesful in this unbearable world.

Try to be logic and realistic. Claim the impossible.

You're not alone anyway. Consciousness is not always avoidable. Read about it, but not too much. Fuck happiness, live on.

[Il Medico]

i want to think about these things but it's totally bringing me down. last night i was brought to tears about the thought of "what if i had been born in rwanda and had my arm hacked off and why can i not be happy with my life as it is? i've got it great! but i feel like crap!"
how do others deal with metaphysical turmoil? i've tried drinking every night but that doesn't work.
I don't know. I have these feelings some times, but I know that both my misery and that of those who are worse off than me are caused by the same source. I would recommend heavy drinking and pot smoking if your feel really bad. That always makes me feel better. But you could also take a laid back approach to life and just say whatever when shit happens, that usually is the best way to handle these things. Don't get stressed over things.

[dogfooddi]

What I meant is that you don't deserve nothing. You're worth nothing. Your existence has no meaning, it will end soon and what you got in it won't make you happy.

It's simple and a little silly. You were lied to about the pursuit of happiness, about justice of all sorts, about the equal oppotunities stuff - and not just about the equal part, but also about the opportunity part, it is really no luck being succesful in this unbearable world.

that's what i'm getting at in my roundabout way. but nobody wants to live a life truly believing that they are insignificant and completely and utterly replaceable though who would really care anyway?

[Hit The North]

that's what i'm getting at in my roundabout way. but nobody wants to live a life truly believing that they are insignificant and completely and utterly replaceable though who would really care anyway?

No one is. Most of us might not make it into the history books but we affect the people around us. Watch the movie, It's A Wonderful Life. That's the best cure for your current malady. :)

[Zurdito]

I thought this was inspiring and revolutionary:



Gaius is an idealist, everyone knows that. I might as well say that he didn't understood yet. I did, and that's why I don't care for anything. But if Gaius begins to understand, he's capable, on the contrary, with his good little heart, to care for everything. And God knows what that will cost us.

[bcbm]

that's what i'm getting at in my roundabout way. but nobody wants to live a life truly believing that they are insignificant and completely and utterly replaceable though who would really care anyway?

Life is what you make of it. Quit being a downer and have fun.

[Nils T.]

The whole play is inspiring. Even for people like me who don't agree entirely with what Camus tried to express trough it.


but nobody wants to live a life truly believing that they are insignificant and completely and utterly replaceable though who would really care anyway?Wanting to live shouldn't be a duty...
But I think that no one truly wants to live until they get aware that life has no meaning nor value. Wanting to marry happily and get a house, have three kids and a dog, two cars a a good job ? Be a good soldier or a hardworking militant or a responsible citizen ? that's only surviving. Art, religion and the love of those who care for us ? That's just waiting for death.
Your existence is insignificant. But there's pleasures, desires, fantasies, excitement... love is not much, but falling in love is nice. Enough to make some revolutions - and those are fun too, if they are not stopped by people who don't get that they are mortals and that therefore all sacrifices are vain, lost and harmful.
These slogans from may 68 I quoted say the same, and prove that although we are not emperors of the roma, we might just be able to care about everything equally, or not care at all which is the same, and thus be free and alive. Too bad that I can't really translate "Vivre sans temps mort - jouir sans entrave".

[Nils T.]

All this reminded me that there is a movie called Caligula that i didn't watch yet. Not as clear than camus' writing, but featuring enough sex and violence according to wikipedia to be interesting. It opens with a quote from some ancient wanker "what shall it profit a man if he should gain the whole world and lose his own soul ?". The incredible power of dialectics then allowed me to find a better way to tell the same thing again :
1 profit
2 you have no soul
3 ????
4 gain the whole world

[Bilan]

I don't think I made too much errors while translating this. Albert Camus - Caligula.

What I meant is that you don't deserve nothing. You're worth nothing. Your existence has no meaning, it will end soon and what you got in it won't make you happy.

It's simple and a little silly. You were lied to about the pursuit of happiness, about justice of all sorts, about the equal oppotunities stuff - and not just about the equal part, but also about the opportunity part, it is really no luck being succesful in this unbearable world.

Try to be logic and realistic. Claim the impossible.

You're not alone anyway. Consciousness is not always avoidable. Read about it, but not too much. Fuck happiness, live on.

Don't be so dreary. Why " fuck" happiness? This isn't about happiness!

As for the original poster, if you shape your life according to the existence of others, of which you can scarcely fathom the depths, you're wasting your one, and probably only, life.
To realise the seriousness of the situation is positive, to help (in whatever way possible, big or small) is positive; to let it destroy you is beyond negative. The same applies for the struggle generally.
They put it best in 68, "Take the revolution seriously, but don't take yourself seriously" and "Before you can call society into question, you must call yourself into question".
It is not your fault. Where you're born, and to whom, is out of your control completely.
To feel guilt for that which you had no involvment in is silly.

[bcbm]

This isn't about happiness!

Everything is about happiness.

[Nils T.]

They put it best in 68, "Take the revolution seriously, but don't take yourself seriously" and "Before you can call society into question, you must call yourself into question".Parisians were not short of walls at that time and wrote on them some things less revolutionnary than others.
We need more than calling society into question, we need to knock it over.
I think it is definitely about happiness. About what op and everyone else expect of their existences.
Because what is out of control happen anyway. He's guilty even if not responsible. Or more exactly, he's not responsible even if guilty.
Fuck happiness because it is boring and crippling to be satisfied, because it is ideology, and because it's all the same. Because of life.


Everything is about happiness. That's why. Everything ? That should be about life. Fuck happiness.

[bcbm]

Fuck happiness because it is boring and crippling to be satisfied, because it is ideology, and because it's all the same. Because of life.


You can be happy and still want things to be different. :rolleyes: I mean don't let me stop you from being a miserable bastard but I've done that and it isn't very exciting.


That's why. Everything should be about life. Fuck happiness.

What does that even mean?

[Nils T.]

You can be happy and still want things to be different. Sure. My mother is happy and votes for a trotskyst party...
And you can be a miserable bastard and still do exciting things.
Actually, I think in both cases that's even easier.


What does that even mean? You're asking what life means ?

[bcbm]

What?

[black magick hustla]

Everything is about happiness.
Perhaps to you. However that pretty shallow hedonistic dictum is not all that concerns me nor many great men who did great deeds. I am not calling for the sad ascetic, but I dont think many communists rotting in prison cells went underground and abandoned their families out of happiness.


You cant simplify ethical concerns like that. That is psychiatrist talk

[black magick hustla]

To elaborate, I think that even the situ folks who try to base everything on some sort of stirnerite egoism find even themselves on a dead end. just read vaneigem - he goes to ridiculous extents to try to fit revolutionary sacrifice into stirnerite categories of self-interest. It is silly to say that durruti chose a life of running away and hiding because that made him "happier" than living a quite life with his friends and loved ones.

At the same time, building all those ridiculous systems of ethics, which are based on nothing but hot air is a waste of time and nonsensical. Ethics are outside the empirical world and as such they cannot be argued. You either take an ethical proposition as self evident or not. To hell with "ethicists".

[bcbm]

Perhaps to you. However that pretty shallow hedonistic dictum is not all that concerns me nor many great men who did great deeds. I am not calling for the sad ascetic, but I dont think many communists rotting in prison cells went underground and abandoned their families out of happiness.


You cant simplify ethical concerns like that. That is psychiatrist talk

I think you're reading a bit too much into an off the cuff remark.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

To elaborate, I think that even the situ folks who try to base everything on some sort of stirnerite egoism find even themselves on a dead end. just read vaneigem - he goes to ridiculous extents to try to fit revolutionary sacrifice into stirnerite categories of self-interest. It is silly to say that durruti chose a life of running away and hiding because that made him "happier" than living a quite life with his friends and loved ones.

At the same time, building all those ridiculous systems of ethics, which are based on nothing but hot air is a waste of time and nonsensical. Ethics are outside the empirical world and as such they cannot be argued. You either take an ethical proposition as self evident or not. To hell with "ethicists".

How are you going to solve ethical problems without ethics? Some ethical theorists claim to be empirical. Utilitarianism seems to be somewhat pragmatic in its ability to resolve disputes. So does Kantianism.

Ethics seems like one of the most fertile areas of human discovery. It seems like there is a lot to be learned to resolve ethical disputes and the field is just waiting for people to engage it. I don't know why you would suggest it is simply unarguable. It seems to be arguable once someone accepts a particular theory. The theories seem to be evolving as well.

[Bilan]

Parisians were not short of walls at that time and wrote on them some things less revolutionnary than others.

And that changes what, exactly?



We need more than calling society into question, we need to knock it over.

Evidently, but there is no point in calling it in knocking it over without knowing why. That is as pointless as thinking about it and doing nothing about it.



I think it is definitely about happiness. About what op and everyone else expect of their existences.

To enjoy it? Happiness is not central, but it's part of it. All emotions are. One shouldn't be held higher than the others, but none should be just ignored or despised.



Because what is out of control happen anyway. He's guilty even if not responsible. Or more exactly, he's not responsible even if guilty.

He's not guilty. He has done nothing. You don't choose who you are, where you're born, who gives birth to you. That is simply absurd.
This is exactly why I said what I did before.
It is certain that we must call society into question, but not force ourselves into depression.



Fuck happiness because it is boring and crippling to be satisfied, because it is ideology, and because it's all the same. Because of life.

Happiness is not ideological. To be content with existence as it is isn't either. To be totally content requires you to be ignorant of, or isolated from, reality.
Life both undermines and creates happiness. It cannot do otherwise.

[black magick hustla]

How are you going to solve ethical problems without ethics? Some ethical theorists claim to be empirical. Utilitarianism seems to be somewhat pragmatic in its ability to resolve disputes. So does Kantianism.

Ethics seems like one of the most fertile areas of human discovery. It seems like there is a lot to be learned to resolve ethical disputes and the field is just waiting for people to engage it. I don't know why you would suggest it is simply unarguable. It seems to be arguable once someone accepts a particular theory. The theories seem to be evolving as well.

You "cant" discover ethics. You cannot learn to resolve ethical disputes. Every biig ethical system, whether benthamite utilitarianism or kantian categorical imperative, can only seem to work if you hold its premise as self evident.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

You "cant" discover ethics. You cannot learn to resolve ethical disputes. Every biig ethical system, whether benthamite utilitarianism or kantian categorical imperative, can only seem to work if you hold its premise as self evident.

One of the premises may be self-evident. Also, we learn to associate new things as unethical by experience. Making sense of that experience is what ethics tries to accomplish in some cases.

[Nils T.]

And that changes what, exactly?Nothing. That has only a rhetorical value. I suppose.

Evidently, but there is no point in calling it in knocking it over without knowing why.Talk about self evident. We want to knock it over because it is not satisfying as it is and because overthrowing and recomposing society is a positive activity in itself. That's what all this stuff about "the society of the slaveless masters" or "the order without the power" is about. Total democracy, as in the eponymous war.

One shouldn't be held higher than the others, but none should be just ignored or despised. Oh yes it should. Happiness can be tolerated, but it must be ignored. Happiness is at the simultanously the more trying and the least demanding of the main categories of emotions. Even a housewife can be happy, but then what ? The next step after happiness is either aging or death. Much like some reactions to drugs - but everyone is aware of the autodestructive element among the pleasures of these. Most people don't want to die high on heroin. Most people want to die happy. That's still a waste.

He's not guilty. He has done nothing. You don't choose who you are, where you're born, who gives birth to you. That is simply absurd.You can be guilty of an accident or by accident, or of your inaction. You are, as everyone else. And of course it is absurd. That's why he shouldn't care about guilt, that's why he should feel irresponsible. Or that's why we shouldn't try to judge, but to create and destroy.

Life both undermines and creates happiness. It cannot do otherwise. Happiness is the center of all ideologies. Every other feeling tends more or less efficiently to develop consciousness, to subvert what produced it, pleasure and pain, love and hate, and even comfort breeds boredom.

[Bilan]

Talk about self evident. We want to knock it over because it is not satisfying as it is and because overthrowing and recomposing society is a positive activity in itself. That's what all this stuff about "the society of the slaveless masters" or "the order without the power" is about. Total democracy, as in the eponymous war.

I'm aware of the reasons for knocking it down. It explains why I am here, does it not?
I am stating that pointless destruction is futile. Poorly thought out Bakunian nonsense about "destruction being creative" is as useless and stupid as it's polar opposite, that being, ignoring the creativity of destruction.
We have to know why we want to take this down, not merely do it for the sake of it.



Oh yes it should. Happiness can be tolerated, but it must be ignored.

I refuse.



Happiness is at the simultanously the more trying and the least demanding of the main categories of emotions. Even a housewife can be happy, but then what ? The next step after happiness is either aging or death. Much like some reactions to drugs - but everyone is aware of the autodestructive element among the pleasures of these. Most people don't want to die high on heroin. Most people want to die happy. That's still a waste.

You're ignoring the dichotomy between 'content' and 'happiness'; blissful ignorance and informed joy. Further, even if you ignore happiness - which is bordering on the absurd - aging and death will still occur. To be emotionally stale doesn't mean you wont die. You will die, but nothing will change, as you're already dead.



You can be guilty of an accident or by accident, or of your inaction. You are, as everyone else. And of course it is absurd. That's why he shouldn't care about guilt, that's why he should feel irresponsible. Or that's why we shouldn't try to judge, but to create and destroy.

You can be guilty of the above, but this case is quite different. We are born into a world of which we did not shape; we live in it, in ways which we do not necessarily desire to; we can not accept responsibility for it occurring, but we must accept responsibility for undermining it, and over throwing it. It is our role to change it, though we did not create it, because by ignoring it, we perpetuate it.



Happiness is the center of all ideologies. Every other feeling tends more or less efficiently to develop consciousness, to subvert what produced it, pleasure and pain, love and hate, and even comfort breeds boredom.

Oh, they will die of comfort. :lol:
Emotions are central. I can't fathom why you'd want to undermine one which encompasses, broadly, feelings of joy, hope, love, passion.

[NoMore]

now i'm trying to discover the mechanics of why.
I don't think anyone will ever know why or even if there is a reason why we're here. What I do is just accept that I exist (in some way) and try make the quality of my existance better(. So you can wallow in pity and waste your life asking why or trying to explain if there is a reason why we exist but I promise you, you wont be happy when your on your death bed and you realize that you've wasted your life.

[Red Economist]

I've done this. I did it badly. I decided to read Nietzsche. gave me a nervous breakdown... not good!

first peice of advice. don't read Nietzsche, don't even touch Existentialism. it's a philosophy thing, turns subject into object and vice versa. very complicated, but essentially rather than ask: "what is the meaning of life?" (which is a kind of big, idealistic, universal appeal to reason in the universe), ask: "what makes life meaningful [for you]?" (which is alot more personal, realistic and concrete).

essentially life is a creative/productive process. we create things, we move, we change, we develop. there is no 'meaning', 'purpose' or 'reason' for what we do. we are products of reality, and in turn we produce parts of reality. if you want something meaningful- think about what you can do with your life, what you can leave behind. write a symphony, paint a masterpiece, travel the world, or just keep it simple and have a couple of good relationships (which is what I aim for).

seriously, you'll feel better for it. just relax, laugh a bit and take your time and find something you like doing and know that the world is just a little bit different because you were there. it doesn't solve your problems, but it makes life alot easier to handle (I've managed to survive nine months unemployment in the middle of no-where with this attitude...TRUST ME ON THIS!!!!!!!!)

[Bilan]

I don't see why you should avoid existentialism. The Myth of Sisyphus seems like it would be good in this sort of situation.

[Manifesto]

This happens to me A LOT! But alcohol always makes it better.:)