the problem with punk these days

[dopediana]

it's popular. that's what's wrong with it. because when something becomes a trend, it loses its essence. punk used to be about rebelling and being different and politically active. now, it's a bunch of high schoolers who go mosh at shows (which is fun) and coordinate punkish wardrobes with shirts and socks from gadzooks and shoelaces from hot topic (which is also fun).
yet the punks (and notice i'm not speaking of all punks) that I know think they're so different... never mind that mtv plays up "punk" culture. never mind that they don't even know who one is referring to when they say "dubya".
sorry, i tend to ***** about posers alot, in case you've read my other posts. i'll try to mention it with less frequence.

and so many punk bands blow the big one, too. but the dead kennedys are ok. "a holiday in cambodia"

[Politrickian]

Most of my friends are "punks", however there are only 2 I have every talked with about politics and there are even people who have absolutely no interest in politics, calling books by Karl Marx dumb, etc, etc.

Punks are dead.

[ComradeJunichi]

It's popular to be different, if you get what I mean. When something becomes a trend, it does not lose it's essence - not always. When you say it's become popular to become I suppose you're talkin about "pop punk", the label titled for a reason. I don't think the real punk has become the fad of the day, it's the assumptions. The guy with Converse high-tops, pulled up colored socks, long shorts, a tucked in t-shirt, and spiked hair is not punk. You don't see DIY apparel everywhere and etc.

"So many punk bands blow"? So you don't like punk? Sure, Dead Kennedy's were alright but there are hundreds of thousands of good punk bands. What is "A Holiday In Cambodia" supposed to mean? Yeah, I know it's one of their most popular songs but why'd you throw that in there?

-
And saying Punks are dead is just ridiculous.

[MiNdGaMe]

"Punks Not Dead" - The Exploited. Punk has been recycled and sold to young kids wishing to express their rebelish behaviour. These are known as pop-punks with their Queen Avril Lavigne and King(s) Good Charlotte. They have no knowledge of bands prior to Blink 182.

Genuine punks like myself and I'm sure others on the board, listen to decent punk bands before it became commercialised.

Anarchy has become the tool of pop-punks graffiting (-A-) with every possible chance without any Knowledge of Anarchism, except "its Anti-Government".

What the Fuck went Wrong?

(Edited by MiNdGaMe at 3:40 pm on April 26, 2003)

[dopediana]

the standards for being punk have changed, that sure is right. i tend to be more of a hippie but if i wanted to be "today's punk" these are the standards i'd have to meet:

-shop at gadzooks and hot topic
-wear tons of band t-shirts, colorful striped socks, and dye my hair pink
-idolize avril
-claim i'm an anarchist, but since my dad is in the army, be pro-war
-wear ties with absolutely everyfuckingthing
-listen to the all-american rejects and claim that it's JUST about the music (come on, we know they're foxy guys and for christ's sake, they're emo/pop crap/shit)
-wear rainbows and act surprised and hurt when people ask if you're gay and say "no, since when does wearing rainbows mean i'm gay?"
-wear converse all-stars, therefore more than doubling the price of one of my favorite kinds of sneakers in the short time of one year.

(references courtesy of my friend's little sister and her friends)

[exploding toast]

i agree punks not dead but there are a lot of posers who give it a bad name... half of the poser punks in my town dont even know who operation ivy is or other bands like that... they are just like yea rock on A New Found Glory etc.

[Politrickian]

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 1:19 pm on April 26, 2003

And saying Punks are dead is just ridiculous.


I know.

But I was in the mood to say something stupid.

Sorry :)

[mentalbunny]

The thing is, don't let appearences decieve you. So somone looks punk, even listens to some punk, it doesn't mean they are punk. I'm not punk but I'm not punk, if you get me. There are elements of punk in me but I sure as hell don't look like it. I went into a music shop once, looking for some guitar music and I was wearing this red zip-up top, and looking at all this Tab on the rack, flicking through, and this woman who worked there automatically assumed I wouldn't want any of the metal, like i'd be interestied in Indie cos I wasn't wearing a tonne of eyeliner and a balck hoody1 That got me and my mate, we just couldn't sotp laughing when we left, cos most days I don't look at all alternative, like right now I look like I'd happily listen to Justin Timberlake and Shakira, but little do thet know that a second ago I was listening to this little known metalcore badn called Eden Maine, who rock like nothing in hell, man even better than anything satan could come up with, it's so funny!

Anyway, that was all random, and my fingers are freezing so sorry if my typing's shit. Essentially I'm saying, look deeper. I knwo it's sickening when you see someone and you think "cool, this person looks like they'd be into the same stuff as me" but you've gotta go in prepared.

By the way, what anti-flag stuff would you recommend, I'm thinking of buying some but I don't know what to get, I haven't started looking yet so sorry if I've said something incredibly stupid that betrays my ignorance.

[Jaceau]

Punk? I don't understand. I like Operation Ivy, The Unseen, etc etc. So why do I have to dress all different now? Dress in what's comfortable and responsible (ie avoid Nike), and don't buy into cliches and trends.

People need to stop complaining about poser kids pushing up on their style and realize that their style, in it's core, is poser.

[Guerrillache69]

i think punk is a bunch of people complaining about things theyre never going to and arnt even trying to change. *****ing doesnt effect bush.. making a car that runs on methane,saving the ozone layer, warning countries hes a facist imperialistic fuck who just wants to americanize there society that makes a difference,not *****ing like punk rock does.. owellim sure all of you disagree with me,this is my opnion.. say what you think..
-!`~peace~`!-

[Jaceau]

I'd disagree, but I barely understand what you said, the grammar was something else! =p

But yeah, are you saying all good intentions are in vain? What if punk rock influences ONE person who goes into politics and changes the entire world? Wouldn't it all be worth it then? I don't think you've thought out what you just said.

[MiNdGaMe]

I'd also like to state this, Punk is an Attitude, Not a look.

[mentalbunny]

Mindgame, that is so true!!

I see where you're coming from everyone. Everyone *****es from time to time, you'd be unhuman if you didn't.

Jaceau, that's a really good point.

[Urban Rubble]

First off, GuerillaChe69, once again let me point out your hypocrisy, you ***** about punk bands complaining and not changing anything, yet all you're doing is complaining and not changing anything.

The amaryllis, your second post has shown me that you know nothing of punk, The things you described are modern day pop punk fashion.

If you're going to start up a topic and ***** about something, at least know what the fuck you're talking about.

[dopediana]

Quote: from Urban Rubble on 10:38 pm on April 28, 2003


The amaryllis, your second post has shown me that you know nothing of punk, The things you described are modern day pop punk fashion.

If you're going to start up a topic and ***** about something, at least know what the fuck you're talking about.

whoa, ok, relax, inhale, exhale.
i am aware i was talking about pop punk fashions. and i'm *****ing about these people claiming they're hardcore but merely being clotheshorses and buying into pop punk culture. does that comfort your anguished soul?

[Jaceau]

There is no help for his anguished soul, I'm afraid. ==p

[ComradeJunichi]

Certain rules for punk? The hell?

The way someone looks is also apart of punk subculture, many people may disagree with me here. I think punk has a certain look, punk is an attitude, punk is the music, punk is the punk - if you get me.

I really don't give a shit about pop punkers, people can listen to them if they want. There's nothing wrong with it, I'm not going to go out and kill Avril and Blink182.

If you know what punk is, then that's that.

Oh and about the fashion, I don't mean buyin shit from Hot Topic and...the other one which I've never heard of. I meant DIY, because DIY has always been apart of punk. Plus, it's good fun!

[Rebelde para Siempre]

I'd also like to state this, Punk is an Attitude, Not a look.

This pretty much sums it up.

The whole definition of punk is strange. I guess punk doesn't really have a definition because the essence of punk was to be individualistic, different, unique. You could say punk died as soon as it became a subculture, meaning you had to dress a certain way and have certain beliefs.

Maybe punk died as soon as it became the punk 'movement'. Or maybe I'm just talking shit and there's no such thing as true 'punk'.

[sin miedo]

I'd have too say a lot of the people criticising different music styles sure do worry a lot about something that's entertainment. Sure it can wake up social awareness if the bands care about trying and making a difference, but ultimately it's not up to them. They are there to entertain us plebiates, it is up to us to really change things. So quit *****ing so much about music so much, try *****ing more about social and political issues.

[Jaceau]

We can ***** about whatever we like! ==p

[Dirty Commie]

Junichi and amaryllis have the best points. 'punks' are just rich snobs trying to fit into the skateboard trend. And some of them dare to call tehmselves anarchist's. I hate that. They spoiled a great idea. They took the idea from 80's rock fans and ruined good music. If you talk to 90% of them, they can't even spell 'anarchy' They buy 200$ skate boards (with their rich daddies money) and roll on the street trying to be 'cool' The one anarchist I know in person HATES those idiots.

I pride myself in being different from every one, but when the punk trend began, I was embarassed to go in public in Doc Martens or even say anything against the government because so many people assumed teens who do that are punks who don't know shit about anything.

Go ahaid and ***** about whatever, but don't dress like a wanna be punk unless you believe in what they claim to stand for.

[ComradeJunichi]

All you fucking people need to realize what the fuck punks are. Punks and skateboards? What the fuck are you talking about? Yes, usually punks do dress a certain way. DIY jackets and vests, DIY pretty much everything. Bondage pants, plaid pants, kilts, bleached jeans (skins), creepers/boots, whatever. Sure, you can dress preppy and still be a punk with attitude but I'm just saying usually punks do dress a certain way. It's similar but different at the same time, if you get what I mean - DIY.

Before you make fun of punks, maybe you should understand who punks are. LOL, for one they're definitely not skaters.

[truthaddict11]

well im not a punk but Joon you make valid points. Thanks Joon :). I know some punks who do the DYI thing. How come PoliticalSuicide hasnt replied yet? I was sure he would.

[MiNdGaMe]

As I stated before, Punk is an Attitude, Not a Look. The attitude will accompany a conscious look, (anti-capitalistic, sweatshop-free etc..)

[onepunchmachinegun]

Punks aren't dead. Certainly not all, certainly not in Denmark!
The punks in Copenhagen are stronger now than they have ever been before. That's why the goverment is trying very hard to clear the squatted houses. Many of them have been squatted for over ten years...

A year ago, a house was cleared called The Childrens House. The squatters from that house did a lot of humanitary work and helped children who had drinking parents...

[ComradeJunichi]

When people say punk is dead, I just ignore it.

Punk is a bunch of things, not just an attitude. The attitude doesn't mold everything. It's everything that molds punk. Punk is a look also, it's a fashion - i.e. DIY fashion. Punk is also an attitude, for example, anti-authority. Punk is also music, and I don't think too many of you understand this. Many of you are mixing punk music and punks with skaters and the guys who look different on MTV.

[MiNdGaMe]

Think that's a bit of a generalisation their, I hate the MTV brain marganalizing crap. 80's Punk :)
The attitude will accompany the look, its part of the attitudes influence.

[ComradeJunichi]

It's not a generalization, it's an observation. If you've been reading the thread it's obvious that that's what some people are thinking.

The look and attitude are merged together, one does not solely affect the other.

[Dirty Commie]

What I try to point out is that most amerikkkan self proclaimed punks are stuck up snobs who don't know the first thing about the real attitude real punks have. I don't have a problem with the real ones, only the ones who don't know what a punk is that are the vast majority of the people who call them selves punks.

I

[ComradeJunichi]

Americans are the only ones like that? You can be a self proclaimed punk, but people usually just fall into it. Stuck up snobs? Does that piss you off? Then they must be punk.

[Dirty Commie]

The ones who 'fall into it' are spinless geeks. I don't have a problem with real punks, but I despise the fake ones who are in it to be 'cool'.

[ComradeJunichi]

You misunderstood when I said fall into it. You don't just say oh I'm going to be a punk now. You start listening to the music, you start DIY'ing your shit, you start skanking at shows.

What is a "real punk" to you. There are no punks who are in it to be cool, unless you misunderstand the concept of what is a punk.

[Dirty Commie]

Those who fall into it see real punks and start trying to be like them to fit in. Many people start calling themselves punks by dressing like it and listening to the music, but only for a popularity stunt.

what is a punk? anti authoritarian, anti establishment, listens to punk rock, buy most of their stuff at DIY, Hot Topic, understand the mindset of what a punk is, (I am not one at all, but have to put up with them on a daily basis.) and like you said, it's a mold of these sort of things.

My point was that many people who call them selves punks don't have the slightest clue about what a punk is, and only dress like it because it's so popular in middle and high school age students, and amongst many adults (but most of them have been punks since the 80's

[mentalbunny]

Well I don't know what's worse, "false" punks or rich boy wiggers. We have no punks here, only fucking wiggers who live in sussex (a pretty posh very countryfied county in england). it's pathetic when you hear some of em trying to talk like they've lived in a ghetto all their lives!!!!! and you get totally ostracised if your a "goth" (ie you listen to metal a bit and wear a bit of black, you're a bit depressed and you're not "cool").

[ComradeJunichi]

Quote: from Dirty Commie on 8:38 pm on May 1, 2003
Those who fall into it see real punks and start trying to be like them to fit in. Many people start calling themselves punks by dressing like it and listening to the music, but only for a popularity stunt.

what is a punk? anti authoritarian, anti establishment, listens to punk rock, buy most of their stuff at DIY, Hot Topic, understand the mindset of what a punk is, (I am not one at all, but have to put up with them on a daily basis.) and like you said, it's a mold of these sort of things.

My point was that many people who call them selves punks don't have the slightest clue about what a punk is, and only dress like it because it's so popular in middle and high school age students, and amongst many adults (but most of them have been punks since the 80's


Those who fall into it see real punks and start trying to be like them to fit in. Many people start calling themselves punks by dressing like it and listening to the music, but only for a popularity stunt.

That's not what I was talking about, and there are not too many people like that. People don't really fall into real punk, it's usually mainstream shit.

what is a punk? anti authoritarian, anti establishment, listens to punk rock

Anti establishment? What's that? Do you know what "punk rock" is?

buy most of their stuff at DIY, Hot Topic

LOL!!! Dude, you've just lost serious points there. I don't know how much I can take from you on anything about punk. First of all, the whole things about poser punks and whatever you've been talking about are the ones who [i]BUY SHIT FROM HOT TOPIC[i]. And again, for your information, DIY is not a store.

understand the mindset of what a punk is, (I am not one at all, but have to put up with them on a daily basis.)

Not understand, but are punk. What do you mean "put up with"?

My point was that many people who call them selves punks don't have the slightest clue about what a punk is

It seems like you don't know too much about what punk is either.

and only dress like it because it's so popular in middle and high school age students

I don't think it's too popular in my highschool.


If you have to "put up with punks" who "buy from Hot Topic", then you are not "putting up with punks". Sounds like you haven't met a punk yet.

[dopediana]

ok, all this punk talk is making my head spin. i'll move onto another rant.

thanks, mentalbunny, for mentioning wiggers. these are pathetic forms of human beings. i mean, people living in bumsville, idaho talk about how tuff it is living in da 'hood. they buy into black culture. and they're very diverse. they go from white trash to middle class losers to rich kids who have discovered the wonders of pot and black ass.

as i did with today's punk, the essentials of today's wigger:

-gotta have the timbs
-cornrows even if you're white
-when you're in a lighter mood where shoes are concerned, you wear those white old-class reeboks
-it's fubu all the way
-baby blue sweats every day
-gotta have your big blingin' cross on a chain hanging from your neck
-you take your cues from other wiggers like eminem
-if you're REALLY REALLY REALLY fat you wear the TIGHTEST clothes you can find.
-even if you're not fat and wearing tight clothes, you can still be "phat" and wear "tight" clothes

i hope you liked the last one.
bedtime for bonzo.
g'night

[FabFabian]

Ah, the subject of Punk. Well in my opinion, which I regard highly :P, punk music is punk if made from 1975 to 1989. The stuff that is marketed as punk is JUNK. Junk as in Sum 41, Ms. Lavigne, Green Day etc. You can also refer to it as puke. The very worst of this stuff is a marketing ploy and the best is merely nostalgia. Black eyeliner, spikey hair and an obsession with all things juvenile does not a punk make.

Punk is not a fashion statement or a loud racket, it is an attitude and way of life. If you are interested in being a sexist pig, materialist, obnoxious bore or sell-out, fuck off already. If you are pissed at the system, injustice, stagnant hierarchies, superficial social stratas and not afraid to voice it, that to me is Punk.

"I want nothing this society's got, I'm going underground"
The Jam

[Rastafari]

this is true. what is this "love" punk shit?
Punk is politics, and rarely anything else

[dopediana]

call me superficial, but one of the most disturbing issues is that of the chuck taylors. punks used to wear them because they were all they could afford. now they come in barbie pink and baby blue and kimber and jackie like to put happy pretty carebears laces on them and shit like that. and now they're 3 times as much? what of the real punks who are busy fighting fascist america and can't afford their shoes now? what are they supposed to do? walk around in herring boxes without topses?





harumph
well, gee, i can't wait till grunge comes into style! what will the posers make of that?

(Edited by the amaryllis at 8:30 pm on May 5, 2003)

[mentalbunny]

Goth was in style last winter, which got right up my nose cos winter is when the black velvet comes out with me.

By the way, can we less knwledgeable people have a list of good punk bands. I discovered Anti-Flag the other day and previously I'd never really been interested in Punk but now it seems a lot different, I guess cos it's real as opposed to the shit that gets marketed as "punk" and before I jsut never had the chance to get to know the real stuff.

[Rastafari]

the best punk band is the Clash. Hands down.
the second best is Sublime, thats debatable.
Don't listen to the Sex Pistols, they suck

[FabFabian]

I'm with you on the account Rastafari. We lost a great guy when Joe died far too soon. He was another one of those salt of the earth people, who are way too rare these days. He was there supporting the fire brigade union b4 he died.

Another one I like is Paul Weller (Jam, Style Council). Some may think he has gone a bit soft as he has aged, but the man can write powerful lyrics and be a romantic. Saw him live this winter and wow!!! The man rocks the house. A legend!!!

[mentalbunny]

I know enough to avoid Sex Pistols thanks!

I like what I#ve heard of the Clash, I reall shoudl get some, what's the best?

[Rebelde para Siempre]

The Clash were the defining band of the punk movement. They changed people's lives. Any other 'punk' band doesn't come close to what the Clash were. If there was anything that was truly 'punk', the Clash were it.

The Clash - White Riot
- London's Burning
- Career Opportunities
- Complete Control
- I Fought the Law
- Police and Thieves
- Rock the Casbah ****

[Urban Rubble]

Hey MentalBunny, Anti Flag is a good start, but those guys are basically a gimmick.

True, it's better than listening to shit like Blink-182 but for some real political savy punk try Crass (shitty music but great lyrics) the Dead Kennedys, Propagandhi (Great band) or Youth Brigade.

Sublime is not a punk band, the Clash is great, and the Sex Pistols were supposed to suck, that's why I love them.

[truthaddict11]

i think many people are jaded in thier opinions on how people dress i was called a goth by some people all because i wear black clothes and band shirts, besides Nine Inch Nails I really dont listen to "goth"

[Jaceau]

Trent Reznor isn't anything. He is Reznor, he is a fucking genius.

Anti-Flag isn't a gimmick =[ A good amount of their lyrics are a bit overdone (ie: Seattle was a riot), but they are a solid band that are great to listen to, and their lyrics are politically conscious, which is a hugh bonus. That was a lof of commas, sorry.

Propagandhi rock too. They're from Winnipeg!

[truthaddict11]

i know thats why i put goth in parentheses

[Jaceau]

YOU DONT KNOW!!! =p

But seriously, Trent Reznor sold his soul or something, like Lennon.

[atlanticche]

Punk has changed its just "cool" these days the real punk of the Clash and the Sex Pistols is dead

[Rastafari]

I say sublime is punk and ska melded into one.

[ComradeJunichi]

@ atlanticche: No, obviously you haven't been paying attention to the music. Punk is alive, and real punk is still there.

@Rastafari: Sublime isn't punk.

[Urban Rubble]

I know ComradeJunchi already commented on it, but AtlanticChe, saying punk is dead and that its just "cool" is pure bullshit. You obviously haven't ventured beyond you local rock radio station because if you had you would realize there are still real punks and punk bands out there.

[RedJaX]

some of the comments about the state of punk were pretty good, but i dont think that punk is dead at all, toptally the opposite. it's true that today's society is drenched in posers and pop-punk kiddies, but at the core of the whole scene, there is still that spirit of fucking the system, you know? cheers