Is tupac a hero for revolution?

[Anarkiwi]

Ok we all no 2pac and understand
his politics but is he a hero for leftist to look up to
was he a leftist?

here is wikis list of his influences.

Shakur's music and philosophy is rooted in many American, African-American, and World entities, including the Black Panther Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party), Black nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_nationalism), egalitarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism), and liberty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty). His debut album, 2Pacalypse Now (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2Pacalypse_Now), revealed the socially conscious side of Shakur. On this album, Shakur attacked social injustice, poverty and police brutality on songs "Brenda's Got a Baby", "Trapped" and "Part Time Mutha". His style on this album was highly influenced by the social consciousness and Afrocentrism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrocentrism) pervading hip hop in the late 1980s and early 1990s. On this initial release, Shakur helped extend the success of such rap groups as Boogie Down Productions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogie_Down_Productions), Public Enemy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Enemy_%28band%29), X-Clan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Clan), and Grandmaster Flash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_Flash), as he became one of the first major socially conscious rappers from the West Coast.
On his second record, Shakur continued to rap about the social ills facing African-Americans, with songs like "The Streetz R Deathrow" and "Last Wordz." He also showed his compassionate side with the inspirational anthem "Keep Ya Head Up", while simultaneously putting his legendary aggressiveness on display with the title track from the album Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strictly_4_My_N.I.G.G.A.Z.) he added a salute to his former group Digital Underground (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Underground) by including them on the playful track "I Get Around (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Get_Around_%282Pac_song%29)". Throughout his career, an increasingly aggressive attitude can be seen pervading Shakur's subsequent albums.
The contradictory themes of social inequality and injustice, unbridled aggression, compassion, playfulness, and hope all continued to shape Shakur's work, as witnessed with the release of his incendiary 1995 album Me Against the World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_Against_the_World). In 1996, Shakur released All Eyez on Me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Eyez_on_Me). Many of these tracks are considered by many critics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic) to be classics, including "Ambitionz Az a Ridah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambitionz_Az_a_Ridah)", "I Ain't Mad at Cha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ain%27t_Mad_at_Cha)", "California Love (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Love)", "Life Goes On (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Goes_On_%28song%29)" and "Picture Me Rollin'".; All Eyez on Me was a change of style from his earlier works. While still containing socially conscious songs and themes, Shakur's album was heavily influenced by party tracks and tended to have a more "feel good" vibe than his first albums. Shakur described it as a celebration of life, and the record was critically and commercially successful.
Shakur was a voracious reader. He was inspired by a wide variety of writers, including Niccolò Machiavelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli), Donald Goines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Goines), Sun Tzu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu), Kurt Vonnegut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut), Mikhail Bakunin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin), Maya Angelou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Angelou), Alice Walker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Walker), and Khalil Gibran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalil_Gibran). In his book, Dyson describes the experience of visiting the home of Shakur's friend and promoter Leila Steinberg to find "the sea of books" once owned by Shakur.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur#cite_note-m_dyson_holler-59)


maybe i should of put this in music?

[the last donut of the night]

Many rappers were active members of the struggle for racial and economic activity. Yet remember that 2pac wasn't some Boots Riley or a member of RATM. Many of his songs can reek of social mobility, in which he praises the luxuries of now being rich. That's common to a lot of rappers. An example is Biggie's song Juicy, which shows how some get up on the capitalist ladder to 'success'. It's mixed. They rapped about inequality, but didn't go as so far to fight for equality in the end.

[Anarkiwi]

Immortal techniques
the best revolutionary rapper
he raps about it and refuse to be signed even though hed be
a millionaire

[bluerev002]

Tupca wasn't a hero of the left. He rapped what he saw and what he lived, thus that made up his politics. He lived the working man's struggles. I wouldn't categorize the man as leftist however there was the side of him that was.

[Nakidana]

Remember that Tupac's mother, Afeni Shakur, was a prominent member of the BPP. There is no doubt that she taught him a thing or two, listen to his early songs and you will find quite a few political songs. "Panther Power" is an example. The fact that he's done a few speeches, some of them up on YouTube, shows that he was somewhat more political than other rappers. Again, probably got in due to his mother.

He was a guy with many flaws, mainly his gangsta attitude. Too bad he died so early, I think he was actually moving in a more political direction near the end.

One of his best songs IMO is "Letter to the President":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6tTAJZ2NIM&feature=related

One of his speeches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhC_s20LUk0

Nothing special, I know, but at least he was out there. More than you can say about most other gangsta rappers.

[Hit The North]

Give me Chuck D over Tupac any day of the week - not to mention KRS1.

Why is this in History, anyway?

[Anarkiwi]

[QUOTE=Bob The Builder;
Why is this in History, anyway?[/QUOTE]

I thort that after i posted it
how would i move it to music?

[heiss93]

Tupac was a card carrying member of the Young Communist League and wrote a song for their convention.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FBgBwDxWCD8C&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=tupac+ycl&source=bl&ots=1KALzkhGaT&sig=c1Q4opYM7nKdGxTJhHew_GRDHe4&hl=en&ei=HHRPSu-lNqOntgeR0bi0BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3

[Invader Zim]

Immortal techniques
the best revolutionary rapper
he raps about it and refuse to be signed even though hed be
a millionaire

What, other than the fact that the man is bigot?

[Nakidana]

Tupac was a card carrying member of the Young Communist League and wrote a song for their convention.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FBgBwDxWCD8C&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=tupac+ycl&source=bl&ots=1KALzkhGaT&sig=c1Q4opYM7nKdGxTJhHew_GRDHe4&hl=en&ei=HHRPSu-lNqOntgeR0bi0BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3

Have you read the book and if so what did you think of it?

[Anarkiwi]

What, other than the fact that the man is bigot?

The fact he has done a lot more for tha cause then you or me.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

The fact he has done a lot more for tha cause then you or me.

I dont know zim but i know of IM and i have a feeling the former is far more use the workers movement then the latter.

[Anarkiwi]

This is the point of no return I could never go back
Life without parol up state shackled and trapped
Living in the hole, lookin' at the world through a crack
But fuck that, I'd rather shoot it out and get clapped
I've gone too far, there ain't no coming back for me
Auschwitz gas chamber full of Zyklon-B
Just like the spanish exterminating Tynos
Raping the black and Indian women, creating Latinos
Mother fuckers made me out of self richeous hatred
And you got yourself a virus, stuck in the Matrix
A suicide bomber strapped and ready to blow
Lethal injection strapped down ready to go
Don't you understand they'll never let me live out in peace
Concrete jungle, guerilla war out in the streets
Nat Turner with the sickle pitch fork and machette
The end of the world, mother fucker you not ready
This is the point of no return and nobody can stop it
Malcolm little running up before Elijah Muhammad
The comet then killed the dinosaurs, changing the earth
They love to criticize they always say I change for the worse
Like prescription pills when you mis-using them nigga
The templar knights when they took Jerusalem nigga
And figured out what was buried under Soloman's temple
Al Aksa the name is no coincidental
I know too much to government is trying to murder me
No coming back like cutting your wrists open vertically
How could the serpent be purposely put in charge of the country
Genetic engineered sickness spread amongst me
My people are so hungry that they attack without reason
Like a fuckin' dog ripping off the hand that feeds him
Immortal Technique is treason to the patriot act
So come and get me mother fucker cause I'm not coming back

[Anarkiwi]

Open your eyes is immortals best song
it aint rap its truth

[Pirate Utopian]

IT is boring. He has no flow whatsoever and his beats are just piano and drums in a continous 5 second loop for 5 minutes straight.

Plus he's a homophobe and a conspiracy loon.

[fiddlesticks]

Immortal techniques
the best revolutionary rapper
he raps about it and refuse to be signed even though hed be
a millionaire

I agree with this.

[Anarkiwi]

I agree with this.

It seems a lot of internet commies dont
maybe there jeoulous of the fact i.t
is out there changeing minds and not here playing
"balance of power"

[the last donut of the night]

This is the point of no return I could never go back
Life without parol up state shackled and trapped
Living in the hole, lookin' at the world through a crack
But fuck that, I'd rather shoot it out and get clapped
I've gone too far, there ain't no coming back for me
Auschwitz gas chamber full of Zyklon-B
Just like the spanish exterminating Tynos
Raping the black and Indian women, creating Latinos
Mother fuckers made me out of self richeous hatred
And you got yourself a virus, stuck in the Matrix
A suicide bomber strapped and ready to blow
Lethal injection strapped down ready to go
Don't you understand they'll never let me live out in peace
Concrete jungle, guerilla war out in the streets
Nat Turner with the sickle pitch fork and machette
The end of the world, mother fucker you not ready
This is the point of no return and nobody can stop it
Malcolm little running up before Elijah Muhammad
The comet then killed the dinosaurs, changing the earth
They love to criticize they always say I change for the worse
Like prescription pills when you mis-using them nigga
The templar knights when they took Jerusalem nigga
And figured out what was buried under Soloman's temple
Al Aksa the name is no coincidental
I know too much to government is trying to murder me
No coming back like cutting your wrists open vertically
How could the serpent be purposely put in charge of the country
Genetic engineered sickness spread amongst me
My people are so hungry that they attack without reason
Like a fuckin' dog ripping off the hand that feeds him
Immortal Technique is treason to the patriot act
So come and get me mother fucker cause I'm not coming back

"The Point of No Return". Great song.:D:D

[Invader Zim]

"why you trying to be hardcore, you fucking homo-thug
and don't be sensitive and angry at the shit that I wrote
cuz if you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke"

No, IT you're the fucking joke.

[Redmau5]

What, other than the fact that the man is bigot?

So I trust you only read, watch and listen to material produced by artists and entertainers who are ideologically pure?

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

So I trust you only read, watch and listen to material produced by artists and entertainers who are ideologically pure?

The point is not that leftists listen to it, but when he is hailed as a hero I get a bit annoyed.

[ls]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/customprofilepics/profilepic17356_2.gif

Yes comrades, Túpac Amaru II (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=17356) is at the very helm of the vanguard of the world proletarian revolution, he is definitely a hero to me and many others. http://www.revleft.com/vb/customavatars/thumbs/avatar17356_4.gif

Let us all leave a revolutionary visitor message for him to let him know this! :wub::cool:

YOURS IN SOLIDARITY!

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I definitely think there were more revolutionary rappers. Public Enemy for sure.

[MilitantAnarchist]

Tupac was a great rapper and a poet...
Dont think he was revolutionary tho...
Plus one good thing im sure he would be pround of, on the song Thats The Way It Is (or whatever it was called) he said 'we'll never see a black president'
And now there is...
Sorry for the obvious statement :p

[Module]

It's ridiculous how complimentary some leftists can be about homophobic, misogynistic, "gangster" hypocritical morons once they start talking their bullshit over some music and selling it on a CD.

[Anarkiwi]

Tupac was a great rapper and a poet...
Dont think he was revolutionary tho...
Plus one good thing im sure he would be pround of, on the song Thats The Way It Is (or whatever it was called) he said 'we'll never see a black president'
And now there is...
Sorry for the obvious statement :p

hes says "we aint ready for a black president"

[fiddlesticks]

It seems a lot of internet commies dont
maybe there jeoulous of the fact i.t
is out there changeing minds and not here playing
"balance of power"

Listening to an Immortal Technique song is like talking to someone who hates everything thats wrong with the world (Cause of Death, good tune)...with rhymes in the background.. whats not the like? Well that sucks for the internet commies, right?!?!? (i kid, to each ones own)

[MilitantAnarchist]

did he? im sure he said somthing like 'its evident we wont ever see a black president'... why would he said we aint ready for a black president when he was a supporter of Black Panthers (well his mam was in it n what not)...
His lyrics werent homophobic and sexist... some were but that was part of the gangster image... if you listen to most of his songs and listen to his friends talking about him, he was against all that shit...

[Anarkiwi]

did he? im sure he said somthing like 'its evident we wont ever see a black president'... why would he said we aint ready for a black president when he was a supporter of Black Panthers (well his mam was in it n what not)...
His lyrics werent homophobic and sexist... some were but that was part of the gangster image... if you listen to most of his songs and listen to his friends talking about him, he was against all that shit...

I think he meant america the nation not himself.
maybe he did say never i just like ready.

[Anarkiwi]

I see no changes all I see is racist faces
misplaced hate makes disgrace to races
We under I wonder what it takes to make this
one better place, let's erase the wasted
Take the evil out the people they'll be acting right
'cause both black and white is smokin' crack tonight
and only time we chill is when we kill each other
it takes skill to be real, time to heal each other
And although it seems heaven sent
We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh
It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact
the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks
But some things will never change
try to show another way but you stayin' in the dope game
Now tell me what's a mother to do
bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you
You gotta operate the easy way
"I made a G today" But you made it in a sleazy way
sellin' crack to the kid. " I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that's the way it is

[Bridge]

[Talking:]
We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.

them the lyrics bro

[FreeFocus]

He was not a "hero for revolution," and on the whole he was an idiot. Still, some of his tracks get me pumped up for a workout. He wasn't entirely bad, but still an idiot, lol.

[Invader Zim]

So I trust you only read, watch and listen to material produced by artists and entertainers who are ideologically pure?

I don't know about that, but I certainly can't think of any bands I listen too that feel the need to spew their bile upon women, homosexuals, etc, for no other reason than existing.

But that isn't of course the point, and you know it. The point is that this guy is a self proclaimed leftist spews reactionary drivel and then other supposed leftists shout his praises from the roof tops while ignoring the fact that while IT waxes on about evils of modern society he reinforces some of its most virulent aspects.

If he had made these same comments regarding an ethnic group he would be treated accordingly, but apparently "homo's" are fair game. He's a complete hypocrite, and so are the members of this board who defend him.

[Anarkiwi]

if he hates homos such as p.u.
thats his own idea,

most communist states put homos in gulags so this view is communist.
as an anarchist i dislike his anti homo stance but his music is awesome

[Jazzratt]

Listening to an Immortal Technique song is like talking to someone who hates everything thats wrong with the world (Cause of Death, good tune)...with rhymes in the background.. whats not the like?

My experience with IT's music has basically been like going up to that one guy at a party who seems to be on your wavelength until he suddenly has a go at gay people or goes off on one about how [conspiracy theory x] is absolutely true. Music is meant to inspire emotions but I'm fairly sure the horrible feeling in your gut when you're worried that some embarassing little pillock might be associated with you in some way probably shouldn't be one.

As for Tupac I'm not really sure he was a "revolutionary". He made some great songs and supported some progressive ideas but nothing to make him particularly noteworthy.

[Jazzratt]

if he hates homos such as p.u.
thats his own idea,

most communist states put homos in gulags so this view is communist

Homophobia is never acceptable. Putting a lick of red paint on the same hateful fucking garbage isn't going to stop it being hateful fucking garbage.

[Anarkiwi]

do you like che guevara?
if so
did che guevara like homos?

[Anarkiwi]

sorry i have no point to this i just like i.t music thats all
homophobia is wrong.

[fiddlesticks]

My experience with IT's music has basically been like going up to that one guy at a party who seems to be on your wavelength until he suddenly has a go at gay people or goes off on one about how [conspiracy theory x] is absolutely true. Music is meant to inspire emotions but I'm fairly sure the horrible feeling in your gut when you're worried that some embarassing little pillock might be associated with you in some way probably shouldn't be one.

As for Tupac I'm not really sure he was a "revolutionary". He made some great songs and supported some progressive ideas but nothing to make him particularly noteworthy.


hahah, what a great analogy!! its true, though I never listen to Immortal Technique long enough to notice it. It's better than most rap these days though, fa 'sho.

[gorillafuck]

if he hates homos such as p.u.
thats his own idea
Don't call Pirate Utopian a "homo"

As for Tupac, he seems like he supports many progressive ideas but calling him a "hero for revolution" seems absurd to me.

[the last donut of the night]

Immortal Technique might be homophobic, like other rappers -- and of course, that should not be approved of in any way -- but I think we strayed off the main point. Which was Tupac. Also, many people listen to Immortal Technique. And it is a lesser evil than listening to mainstream rap. Which is homophobic, sexist, capitalist, controlled by the musical corporate giants, and does not call out for change. However, I wouldn't call Tupac of IT revolutionary leaders. Not even Boots Riley

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

The issue is not that people listen to IT and his bigoted shit its that he is praised as being any kind of asset to the left. Also the cult following by some of the less intelligent members on this forum in regards to him is weird and creepy.

[Anarkiwi]

Cult following?
Who? where?
i think hes makes good music and is somewhat of a asset to the left
as he raises the issues and a lot of people youth in particular have become leftist
because of his music.

but cult following no.

[Pogue]

No rap is revolutionary.

However, all grime is.

This is because grime comes from London.

[the last donut of the night]

Rap can be revolutionary. And Tupac isn't being praised. Neither is IT. We are talking about them.

[Anarkiwi]

Rap can be revolutionary. And Tupac isn't being praised. Neither is IT. We are talking about them.

Its rare a catholic makes sense thats awesome.

[the last donut of the night]

Its rare a catholic makes sense thats awesome.

Well, when so few do on this site, someone will eventually. I don't think you've ever read about liberation theology then

[Anarkiwi]

Well, when so few do on this site, someone will eventually. I don't think you've ever read about liberation theology then

No i havent can you give me a suggestion?
i just cant belive in any leaders human or supernatural.
The revolution is rank and file.

[Skin_HeadBanger]

Give me Chuck D over Tupac any day of the week - not to mention KRS1.

Why is this in History, anyway?

As far as rap goues, Public Enemy and KRS1 are my 2 favorites.

I respect tupac, but I don't consider myself a fan.

I don't know if I would consider him a hero to the left, but a friend to the left at times, rather.

Also, keep in mind, black nationalism is still nationalism.

[GrouchoMarxist]

Not really. I mean power to him for showing an interest but I wouldn't consider his later music especially useful to the left. Compared to say Dead Prez or The Coup, whose entire discographies display a level of social consciousness Tupac only flirted with.

[Radical]

My guess is that if Tupac learnt about Communism, he would probably be a Communist.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

My guess is that if Tupac learnt about Communism, he would probably be a Communist.

That's a very condescending attitude, and pretty unsubstantiated - for a 19 year old white kid to second guess Tupac.

Look at his family, Afeni & Assata Shakur (mother and godmother respectively) both former Black Panthers... So to assert that Pac was ignorant to communism seems itself a fairly ignorant thing to say...

I think Tupac represents the duality of man insofar as that he was a revolutionary but a gangsta

[heiss93]

Have you read the book and if so what did you think of it?

Didn't read the whole book but from its coverage of Tupac's political activism and involvement with the Young Communist League, it seems to cover the political aspects of his life that MTV books would rather ignore. I learned from that book that his father in law was the head of the Baltimore Communist Party.

[mykittyhasaboner]

My guess is that if Tupac learnt about Communism, he would probably be a Communist.

Maybe you should read what hiess93 already posted in this thread.

http://books.google.com/books?id=FBgBwDxWCD8C&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=tupac%20ycl&source=bl&ots=1KALzkhGaT&sig=c1Q4opYM7nKdGxTJhHew_GRDHe4&hl=en&ei=HHRPSu-lNqOntgeR0bi0BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3

[gorillafuck]

Wow, I didn't know his relation to communism, that's really cool.

[StalinFanboy]

To criticize any rap for not being revolutionary enough is fucking stupid. The point of rap is not to be revolutionary.

That being said, 2pac is probably my favorite rapper. Along with Ice Cube.

[RoniCommunist]

Yeah. he was a singer for revolution
His songs were with revolution content like the song Changes..
i wanna changes and.. something like that.
:)

[RoniCommunist]

Yeah. he was a singer for revolution
His songs were with revolution content like the song Changes..
i wanna changes and.. something like that.
:)
i post this like an example.
watch the movie ... :D

[RoniCommunist]

To criticize any rap for not being revolutionary enough is fucking stupid. The point of rap is not to be revolutionary.

That being said, 2pac is probably my favorite rapper. Along with Ice Cube.

is depend.. :)
not for revolutionary but about revolution y..
do you alight upon

[RoniCommunist]

I have to say that 80 % of the rapers are communists... I think for the hardcore underground rap :):)

[LeninKobaMao]

Tupac sucked ass what was so good about him anyways he rapped about luxuries all he cared about was his "hood" and his "hoes". Sorry Tupac fans but he was not a hero in any respect.

[Hampton]

All he ever rapped about was hoes and hood? Never mind "Letter to the President", "Keep Ya Head Up", or "Brenda's Got A Baby", your analysis is amazing.

[kalu]

Tupac had a lot of contradictions, ie. referring to "*****es" in one song and then producing tracks like "Baby Don't Cry." That said, there is no doubt that Tupac was socially conscious and introduced those elements into his music, ie. "Me Against the World":


When will I finally get to rest? Through this suppression
they punish the people that's askin questions
And those that possess, steal from the ones without possessions

A musician doesn't need to make all their songs explicitly about revolution in order to be (politically) revolutionary..

[Radical]

Tupac was a gift to mankind. He was an interlectual that spoke of struggle. He resisted oppression and poverty, he fought for the oppressed and was a voice for the unheard. He was murdered before his time and I do truly believe that if Tupac studied Communism he would be a Communist. Tupac has positively affected the lives of millions and was killed at only 25 years old.

Tupac did desire to get into politics. He spoke of wanting to be Governor of California. He promiced that if he lived to see 2000, he would run for President on the side of the democratcs. Sadly, he was murdered in 1996.

Tupac diden't study Communism. As he lived in USA he probably just assumed what everybody said about it(Right-Wing Propaganda ect..). I hold Tupac in my heart as one of the greatest Revolutionaries up there with Che Guevara, Malcom X, Fidel Castro and Martin Luther King. He gave his life to the oppressed and forgotten.

For those Comrades that dont know of Tupac, I strongly recommend you study the life of this great Revolutionary leader.

He will be truly missed and never forgotten. Thug in Peace Tupac!

Life goes on - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69SSLfRJho

Edit: If anybody wants to ask me anything about Tupac or his views, I will happily answer them.



I think Tupac represents the duality of man insofar as that he was a revolutionary but a gangsta

Tupac wasen't a gangster, he was a brother fighting back.
Gangsters are people that rob, steal and kill people just to get money. Tupac did the complete opposite. Tupac was a thug that cared about the oppressed.(As it shows in his music)

Tupac diagnosed a Philosophy called "Thug Life". It means "The Hate U Gave Little Infants Fucks Everybody". It means, what you feed us as seeds, grows and then explodes in your face. When Tupac said he was a Thug, he dident mean he wanted to rob and rape people. He meant that he was a thug because he came from the gutter and survived. Thats Thug Life.


Tupac sucked ass what was so good about him anyways he rapped about luxuries all he cared about was his "hood" and his "hoes". Sorry Tupac fans but he was not a hero in any respect.

When Tupac spoke of "hoes". He meant women that sleep around with anybody for money. He believed they disrespected themselves. Tupac dident mean "Hoe" as in to say that women that sleep around a lot are hoes. "Hoe" is just another word for a Prostitute. He used it in this way because he dident like the way women disrespect themself for money. Tupac was a young man, I'm not saying everything what he said was always right. However he's just human and made mistakes as we all do.

When Tupac called females "*****es". He believed a ***** was somebody that was "stuck-up", that thought they could sleep with anybody and use them for money. Tupac had nothing against people that had sex a lot(which is what people refer to as hoes/*****es nowadays)

As for Luxeries. As I said above, Tupac was unaware of the idealogy and principles of Communism. I ask anybody here to show me a source as to where Tupac EVER refers to Communism. He never showed any evidence of knowing anything about Communism. Tupac grew up in complete poverty. When he started Performing Arts School, He owned one t-shirt and one pair of trousers. Tupac was never educated about Collectivism. All he ever knew was to fight for what he desired. The Government gave him nothing. He had to strive for his life. You cannot expect a man that came from the gutter to not want luxeries. Blame the education of USA, but do not blame Tupac. When Tupac died, he had just over $100.000 in his bank account. Everything he had was loaned to him by the Record Label he was signed under. Tupac was exploited just as much as we are today. Tupac deserves our respect and yet so much more.

[ls]

When Tupac spoke of "hoes". He meant women that sleep around with anybody for money. He believed they disrespected themselves. Tupac dident mean "Hoe" as in to say that women that sleep around a lot are hoes. "Hoe" is just another word for a Prostitute. He used it in this way because he dident like the way women disrespect themself for money.

And Marx was homophobic, you approve of Tupac's stance on this however don't you?

Didn't you get suspended for a while because of this shit before?

It's nice to see you've opened your mind. :rolleyes:

[Radical]

And Marx was homophobic, you approve of Tupac's stance on this however don't you?

Didn't you get suspended for a while because of this shit before?

It's nice to see you've opened your mind. :rolleyes:

Speaking factually about somebodys views is not homophobic. How about you get off my dick for a while and stop posting in my threads.

I took the time to post some infomation about Tupac, so that Comrades could understand who the man was and what his views were. I do not want to listen to a retard that purposly spouts something unrelated everytime I post.

[The Bear]

2pac like many rappers is big time capitalist and somewhat racist

i mean look at rap songs , its all about "getting rich over night" , "drinking expensive champaigns" , "limos , rides" and similar

and he was also a bit asshole

fact that he died doesnt make him big 'un

hitler died also..

[Radical]

2pac like many rappers is big time capitalist and somewhat racist

i mean look at rap songs , its all about "getting rich over night" , "drinking expensive champaigns" , "limos , rides" and similar

and he was also a bit asshole

fact that he died doesnt make him big 'un

hitler died also..

Read my post above. Tupac never made songs about getting rich over-night and drinking expensive champagne. (Although could you blame him after making it out of total poverty?)

Instead of randomly shouting out accusations, why dont you back it up with sources and evidence.

Oh, Also please source where he was a racist. The Tupac I know was strongly against racism. He wrote about it in a lot of his songs.

[Radical]

Tupac talking about the hardships of poverty and "the system".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvjkpPtK7NM

If you think Tupac was a gangster, you lose all credibility from me.

[StalinFanboy]

2pac like many rappers is big time capitalist and somewhat racist

i mean look at rap songs , its all about "getting rich over night" , "drinking expensive champaigns" , "limos , rides" and similar

and he was also a bit asshole

fact that he died doesnt make him big 'un

hitler died also..
Have you ever listened to 2pac?

[The Bear]

yes i did , he raps nice , but from philosophical point of view , its rubbish

for evidence , read his lyrics

and one more thing

i stick you evidence in your ass , you CSI nerds

[StalinFanboy]

yes i did , he raps nice , but from philosophical point of view , its rubbish

for evidence , read his lyrics

and one more thing

i stick you evidence in your ass , you CSI nerds


http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Soon-As-I-Get-Home-lyrics-2Pac/4243D1B2CE85576948256F4B00036441

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Keep-Ya-Head-Up-lyrics-2Pac/C4EC4762B806B8824825686A000CD809

Yeah man, the shit he says is total rubbish.

[ls]

Speaking factually about somebodys views is not homophobic.

Can't you read? Again?


I took the time to post some infomation about Tupac, so that Comrades could understand who the man was and what his views were. I do not want to listen to a retard that purposly spouts something unrelated everytime I post.

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!

[The Bear]

some rapper have some values , talking about white racism and misery of a working class black community in usa and similar , but remind you of all that gangsta-egoist-bullshit and songs about praising people who dealed drugs to kids for making a living

like "o yeah , i dealed few stashes , made some money , got rich , bought everything i couldnt before , o its all good baby ba-by huh , oh.."

[Radical]

some rapper have some values , talking about white racism and misery of a working class black community in usa and similar , but remind you of all that gangsta-egoist-bullshit and songs about praising people who dealed drugs to kids for making a living

like "o yeah , i dealed few stashes , made some money , got rich , bought everything i couldnt before , o its all good baby ba-by huh , oh.."

Again please just source me one song where it shows Tupac praising people that sold drugs to kids.

[The Bear]

yes , i generalised rap , true , i dont know about 2pac but rap generaly is mostly that

but i dont like 2pac personaly, he was born on east coast , gone to west coast and started thrashing eastern blokes... kinda betraying :D...i prefer brooklyn :D

[RHIZOMES]

It's ridiculous how complimentary some leftists can be about homophobic, misogynistic, "gangster" hypocritical morons once they start talking their bullshit over some music and selling it on a CD.

You've won the "Revleft User Who Knows the Least About Hip-Hop Music" award, congrats! According to sheltered middle-class people (mostly white), singing is the only valid vocal music style. And rap beats (read: music made by black people) aren't as valid a music style as music "with instruments" (read: instruments invented and/or popularized by white people). It's just some basic drum beat they're mumbling over with no thought given to melody at all rite?


To criticize any rap for not being revolutionary enough is fucking stupid. The point of rap is not to be revolutionary.

I think every genre of popular music isn't revolutionary, because it's produced through capitalist means so there are gonna be strong reactionary elements, especially when the popular artists get shitloads of money and fame. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy it and go FUCK YEAH with some of the more progressive things that are said in rap albums. I prefer hip-hop and punk over other genres, as even though there can be reactionary tendencies in both, they tend to be more down-to-earth rather than mostly middle-class radio rock or hipster electro and indie.

I really don't get why people complain about rap specifically when talking about mysogyny, have many of them even taken as much of a critical eye to rock? Most of the so-called "legendary" artists in the rock'n'roll canon are men and with female rock stars being mostly seen as a gimmick with a few exceptions. A girl's role in the rock scene just seems to be as "the girlfriend" or "the groupie" most of the time.

[Radical]

Can I also say this to you people saying Tupac wasen't a Revolutionary.

Tupac shot two cops because they were harrassing a black motorist with a gun. The two cops were later found to be drunk and had taken the gun out of an illegal evidence locker.

I'd like to see any of you so-called Revolutionaries do that for a Comrade.

Study Tupac before you speak about one of the greatest Revolutionaries history has ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbaf_OzA5pc

Revolution:. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgVBY72KlB4
Tupac also speaks about Revolution near the end of the song
I'm not saying Tupac was a Communist because he wasen't. However, he was a REVOLUTIONARY

[StalinFanboy]

yes , i generalised rap , true , i dont know about 2pac but rap generaly is mostly that

but i dont like 2pac personaly, he was born on east coast , gone to west coast and started thrashing eastern blokes... kinda betraying :D...i prefer brooklyn :D
Shhh, you're making yourself look like a middle class tool.

[RHIZOMES]

Can I also say this to you people saying Tupac wasen't a Revolutionary.

Tupac shot two cops because they were harrassing a black motorist with a gun. The two cops were later found to be drunk and had taken the gun out of an illegal evidence locker.

I'd like to see any of you so-called Revolutionaries do that for a Comrade.

Study Tupac before you speak about one of the greatest Revolutionaries history has ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbaf_OzA5pc

Revolution:. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgVBY72KlB4
Tupac also speaks about Revolution near the end of the song
I'm not saying Tupac was a Communist because he wasen't. However, he was a REVOLUTIONARY

Also I think that 2Pac has had a positive impact on the political perceptions of a lot of young people. I think artists like 2Pac and RatM were the artists that started my radical political consciousness even if they weren't 100% ideologically pure or consistent.

[mel]

I'm not saying Tupac was a Communist because he wasen't. However, he was a REVOLUTIONARY

A revolutionary what. You're not a revolutionary because you shoot somebody, or because you want to see the world change. You'd be surprised at how many people want that. You can't have a revolutionary without a revolution, while Tupac might have been an activist,he wasn't a revolutionary.

[The Bear]

Shhh, you're making yourself look like a middle class tool.

said imba omfg internet revoltionary which i personaly dont give shit for :ass smiley:

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Tupac shot two cops because they were harrassing a black motorist with a gun. The two cops were later found to be drunk and had taken the gun out of an illegal evidence locker.

I'd like to see any of you so-called Revolutionaries do that for a Comrade.

People in glass houses?

I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore...

[willdw79]

The fact he has done a lot more for tha cause then you or me.
Tupac did not do much for "the cause" in my opinion. Tupac to me responded strongly against police, the system in general, and against white ethnocentrism in his music and the interviews I have seen of him, and Eric Dyson's biography of Pac.

But Pac did not stand for anything. Everyone doesn't have to have solutions but he can only have done something for "the cause" if he had a cause. Most of his rhetoric was against stuff and not for anything. So, in a sense, I can understand him being for the cause of destroying the system, but he left what to do after up in the air.

His social impact was terrible. It is not entirely his fault. But the way he was portrayed (by Death Row especially) was especially harmful. His anti-women stuff, pro-thug thing, his paperchasin, his drug using/dealing sentiments etc. have gotten a lot of people who believed in him sent to prison and graves (including himself).

I've lived in the so-called hood for most of my life and I think that the "money-murder-pimp" culture was a mostly media driven phenomena, but it has taken root. It is the most destructive force that capitalism has created for the working class that we have to directly struggle with every day.

It front loads lumpenproletariat/capitalist minded young (and sometimes old) people with delusions of success. It is a reactionary countercoulture that should never be accepted. Although the cops are the official state apperatus of control, the lumpenproletariat/capitalist minded people who live the thug life destroy their families and the people around them (neighborhoods) and they should not be embraced.

The win at all costs, get rich or die trying attitude is decidedly individualistic and deadly to revolutionary struggle. The Algerians noticed this during their revolution and they wiped the neighborhoods' unprincipled, pushers, sex-peddlars, etc out! Although they did not have a very successful revolution in my opinion, the erradication of the working class people who prey on their neighbors through unpricipled pursuit of money was a highlight.

Tupac unfortunately did more for that cause than he did for any other cause quantitavely.

[willdw79]

Can I also say this to you people saying Tupac wasen't a Revolutionary.

Tupac shot two cops because they were harrassing a black motorist with a gun. The two cops were later found to be drunk and had taken the gun out of an illegal evidence locker.

I'd like to see any of you so-called Revolutionaries do that for a Comrade.

Study Tupac before you speak about one of the greatest Revolutionaries history has ever seen.
REVOLUTIONARY

Shooting cops does not make you a revolutionary. The guys at Ruby Ridge shot cops, the Waco locos shot cops, La Costra Nostra shot cops, not nearly revolutionary. What makes you a revolutionary is your motivation. If Pac was a revolutionary he was upstaged by his counter-revolutionary treatment of women in the working working class and his misleading message of "thug Life", drug fetishism etc.

My family tree consists of drug dealers, thugs, and killers, struggling,
known to hustle screaming "fuck they feelings". Got advice from my father
all he told me was this, nigga get off your ass if you plan to be rich.
There's 10 rules to the game and I'll share with you 2. Know, nigga's
gonna hate you for whatever you do. Now rule 1, get your cash on MOB,
that's money over *****es cause they bread envy. Now rule 2 it's a
hard one, watch for phonies, keep your enemies close nigga watch your homies.
It seemed a little unimportant, when he told me I smiled,
picture jewels being handed to an innocent child. I never knew in my
lifetime I'd live be these rules, initiated as an outlaw studying rules.
Now papa ain't around so I gotta recall or come to grips with being
written on my enemies walls. Promise if I have a seed, I'm gonna guide him
right, dear Lord don't let me die tonight. I got words for my comrades,
listen and learn, ain't nothing free take back what you earned. Gettin'
high than a muthafucka, bless me please, this thug life be the death of
me

I like his music in a way, but it is reactionary. WTF, money over *****es, fuck that, that is not revolutionary at all, its divisive bullshit that keeps working class men and women apart. Just because he notices some of the downsides of capitalism and says "comrade" does not make him a revolutionary.

Anyhow, Pac the public figure and Pac you can find in interviews are different and should not be analyzed together unless your analysis can demonstrate somehow that the public figure has not overshadowed the so called revolutionary. Anyway nobody put words in his mouth, he was politically aware and Pac chose to sellout women and the rest of the working class, and revolutions for money (which in his words is over *****es).

[Radical]

A revolutionary what. You're not a revolutionary because you shoot somebody, or because you want to see the world change. You'd be surprised at how many people want that. You can't have a revolutionary without a revolution, while Tupac might have been an activist,he wasn't a revolutionary.

Definition of Revolutionary = Somebody that advocates Revolution, which Tupac did and wanted. Tupac was ALOT more Revolutionary than YOU

[willdw79]

Definition of Revolutionary = Somebody that advocates Revolution, which Tupac did and wanted. Tupac was ALOT more Revolutionary than YOU
In what way? Because he said "revolution"?

[Radical]

In what way? Because he said "revolution"?

If you watch the video in my above post, you will hear Tupac proposing Revolution. If you knew anything about Tupac, you would already know Tupac was a Revolutionary and a great messenger.

What I find most annoying about the left on this chat site is; They try to attack Revolutionaries that have done so much more for the Revolution than they have. It's fucking pathetic.

Learn the person before you judge the man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhC_s20LUk0

[willdw79]

Did Eldridge Cleaver do a lot for the revolution? How about Timothy Leary? I grew up in the Bay, I'm aware of Pac. But like I said before, his underdeveloped revolutionary jingos do not constitute anything more than singular events that he should have pursued but didn't. Instead of saying "money over *****es" he should have said more constructive things in his capacity as a public figure.

If it was a politician who spoke out of both sides of his mouth you probably would not support her/him, you would see the contradictions and hipocracy. But Pac has achieved some agrandized status and I think it demonstrates the need for real, lasting revolutionary advancement of our collective consciousness. Maybe when I was a teenager, but as a grown adult, you will never convince me that a parasistic pro-drug dealer is revolutionary. A revolutionary who does not respect women/working class can never be more than a reactionary who we can learn from.

Anyway if Pac did so much, where are the results. You caled him one of the greatest revolutionaries in history, why? What did he do to deserve that title besides make music that you like?

[Radical]

Did Eldridge Cleaver do a lot for the revolution? How about Timothy Leary? I grew up in the Bay, I'm aware of Pac. But like I said before, his underdeveloped revolutionary jingos do not constitute anything more than singular events that he should have pursued but didn't. Instead of saying "money over *****es" he should have said more constructive things in his capacity as a public figure.

If it was a politician who spoke out of both sides of his mouth you probably would not support her/him, you would see the contradictions and hipocracy. But Pac has achieved some agrandized status and I think it demonstrates the need for real, lasting revolutionary advancement of our collective consciousness. Maybe when I was a teenager, but as a grown adult, you will never convince me that a parasistic pro-drug dealer is revolutionary. A revolutionary who does not respect women/working class can never be more than a reactionary who we can learn from.

Anyway if Pac did so much, where are the results. You caled him one of the greatest revolutionaries in history, why? What did he do to deserve that title besides make music that you like?

He influeced millions of people to resist oppression and fight struggle. That's Revolutionary. You have absolutly no evidence or souces to suggest Tupac wasent a Revolutionary. To me, Tupac being one of the key figures that triggered my Revolutionary thinking, its insulting to me for you to ever suggest Tupac wasen't a Revolutionary.

Tupac did respect women. How can you say Tupac dident respect women after the countless songs he made praising women? Just because somebody uses the word "*****" does not neccessarly mean they dont respect women.

I sometimes use the word ***** in my lyrics, and so does Immortal Technique. Does that make both of us "Un-Revolutionary"? No it doesn't.

I never said Tupac was perfect. But just because he doesn't fit within your views does NOT make him not a Revolutionary. Tupac was only human. His pro's far outreach his faults.

To say Tupac wasen't a Revolutionary is just insane. He was a Revolutionary in the same league with Malcom X and Martin Luther King. He fought for the revolution through music. He was a voice for the voiceless. He spoke of struggle, oppression, racism and injustice. Tupac was a Revolutionary that is loved and admired by millions.

[willdw79]

You can call him a revolutionary all you want but it doesn't make it so. Using the same logic you can call any number of people revolutionaries.

I do agree that there is a kernal of resistance in Pac's music. However, in the wake of Thug Life, flossin, death cult, hypermachoism, etc it is like pointing out that GW Bush speaks Spanish and therefore he is less ethnocentric than someone else, it just doesn't hold water.

I used to like Pac a lot more, but now when I listen to his music I feel innundated with reactionary ideology.

BTW MLK was not a revolutionary at all. MLK was a revisionist with no goal of revolution either implied or stated. He did work with some communist organizations, but he didn't want to replace the govenment.

Malcolm X was a nationalist successionist before he went to Mecca and modified his ideas a bit. All-in-all I think your idea of revolutionary is like cultural revolutionary or revolutionary idealism, I apologize and I can accept your definition totally in the context of this conversation. I typically consider only material revolutionaries who advocate leftist overthrow of a government or seizure of land to be revolutionaries.

Honestly man, and I say this with all the respect that I can express in a forum, Pac is not a hero. And I know, I used to love Pac, but after developing my ideas more, he doesn't really fit in. That thing you said about he only says ***** sometimes etc, thats bold man. More than half the people in the world are women and the whole "*****" thing divides us. The drug dealer, menacing, "fuck the world" culture divides us in ways that I think you have not seen yet. But to people who dont really dig hip-hop/rap whatever, they can see it right away.

But, I know at the core of rap, resistance is there. But resistance just falls short man.

Again, I apologize, I am not trying to ruffle you in any way. You in the Bay?

[Pirate Utopian]

I sometimes use the word ***** in my lyrics, and so does Immortal Technique. Does that make both of us "Un-Revolutionary"? No it doesn't.
IT's a homophobic conspiracy shithead, who's bland, boring and overrated songs just fill people's heads with more NWO bullshit instead of shit that actually makes sense.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

I sometimes use the word ***** in my lyrics, and so does Immortal Technique. Does that make both of us "Un-Revolutionary"? No it doesn't.

Immortal Tecnique also uses the word nigga, do you? The fact that Tech uses the word '*****' doesn't exhonerate sexist language. The point is that none of these guys from 'pac and to tech are infalliable; they're hella progressive, which we should emrbace, but have their flaws, which we should critique.

At the end of the day, these guys make good music.