Happy News From Poland

[Holden Caulfield]

Few days ago in Warsaw there was supposed to be a gig of nazi black metal
band from Ukraine called Kroda. Poor Ukrainian nazis didn't expect so much
of Warsaw's famous hospitality but hey, in their own words :

http://www.kronosmortus.hu/node/17777 (http://www.kronosmortus.hu/node/17777)

"Ukrainian Pagan Metal-band Kroda was attacked by Antifa after their gig in Warsaw yesterday!

The attackers demolished the car, destroyed the instruments, and seriously injured members of the band. Subsequently, the band was forced to abort their mini-tour through Poland, Germany, and Austria.

Please contact the local organizers for further information regarding the
respective concerts!

This act of cowardice calls for an appropriate retaliation!

The Pagan Hammer of the Underground will strike, and smash, those who dare
to challenge the Heathen Metal Militia!

For Blood, Soil, and the Gods!"

Smashing up metal gigs seems an appropriate exercise even more so when they are nazi metal gigs...

[rednordman]

I would have been better if it was the locals, who did the damage though.

Dam! How the hell can you have Neo-Nazis from the Ukraine? I was reading a book today, and though alot of them disliked Stalins Oppression, when the Nazis invaded, they where so awfull, the locals where wishing for the red army to 'come back and save them'. And that is saying something aswell.

[K.Bullstreet]

Who says the anti-fascists weren't locals eh?! ;).

Sounds wicked! Productive little shin dig if it made them cancel the tour! :cool:

[Tjis]

The Pagan Hammer of the Underground will strike, and smash, those who dare
to challenge the Heathen Metal Militia!
I'd like to meet the type of person that threatens people with The Pagan Hammer of the Underground. Somehow I suspect that they wouldn't be able to lift the thing.

[Pogue]

fuck, the BNP should learn from this, when they get to put the little tag line next to the party name on ballot papers they should make it

BNP - For Blood, Soil and the Gods!

I think they'd easily return a parliamentary majority :lol:

[OneNamedNameLess]

I would have been better if it was the locals, who did the damage though.

Dam! How the hell can you have Neo-Nazis from the Ukraine? I was reading a book today, and though alot of them disliked Stalins Oppression, when the Nazis invaded, they where so awfull, the locals where wishing for the red army to 'come back and save them'. And that is saying something aswell.


I don't understand why Nazism has as much support as it does in Poland either. There are a few football clubs in Poland whose supporters label as Nazis. Anyway, the Polish Antifa oppose Socialism and Communism as much as Nazism. Take a look at their website which includes a link to the Polish Redwatch lol http://antifa.bzzz.net/site/index.php

[rednordman]

I don't understand why Nazism has as much support as it does in Poland either. There are a few football clubs in Poland whose supporters label as Nazis. Anyway, the Polish Antifa oppose Socialism and Communism as much as Nazism. Take a look at their website which includes a link to the Polish Redwatch lol http://antifa.bzzz.net/site/index.php The polish Antifa opposing socialism and communism as much as nazism, is only going to counter productive to their movements, imo. You couldnt just start up a antifascist state could you (though that would be very nice to be fair).

What hurts me alot is the amounts of polish that are influence by nazism. Where i work (in central England) there has recently been alot of nazi grafiti around the place. Intitially one could accuse the niave populus of doing it, and im sre they are, but the other week, the was a swastika drawn in the toilets with the works 'poland rules' underneah it.

Also, i have seen alot of the polish in the agency, sig heiling too. I dont know whether im seeing things, but unless it is a very very sick joke of thiers ,it is very disturbing.

Its as if the do not realise that the Nazis wanted to virtually eliminate them as a people. (anyone who can prove otherwise is welcome to prove me wrong here). Why are they supporting them now?

[Killfacer]

Maybe they think opposition to communism/socialism is helpful in gaining the support of the population. I can understand it, although linking to a polish redwatch seems worrying.

[redSHARP]

the polish community in Brooklyn has a few shady bars with a few right wingers around, but poland has a history of fascism (or close to fascist) and authoritarian ruling.

[Tjis]

This is very confusing. They have plenty of anarchist symbols on that website. They don't consider anarchists as left wing?

[The Ungovernable Farce]

This is very confusing. They have plenty of anarchist symbols on that website. They don't consider anarchists as left wing?
I think it's more that they're anti-Stalinist, which is pretty understandable given Poland's history. I also can't find the link to Polish redwatch - can anyone find the page with it on?

[Sasha]

people should learn to read before making ridicules statements, from the founding statement of antifa poland (also on the site under rules of engagement): (http://antifa.bzzz.net/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10&Itemid=9)

- Authoritarian left is not an ally: all sorts of Lenin followers, communists and pro-state socialists never were and never will be on our side. For them anti-fascism is a disguise in struggle for power and from the history we can learn how communist's allies end up when they are no longer needed.although a bit cruedly worded (but hey, they are polish, kurwa :p) this
Authoritarian (...); defines the after that folowing
communists wich means they are exclusivly anti-authoritorian, i'm sure that they would have no problem what so ever with syndicalist-, councel-, or leftcommunist if they existed in poland.

this is by the way the redwatch page they link to (http://redwatch.50webs.com/sites/redwatch.htm), although my polish is limited to swearing and ordering beer i think i can still safely say that its an spoof of an nazi created red-watch

[rednordman]

Maybe they think opposition to communism/socialism is helpful in gaining the support of the population. I can understand it, although linking to a polish redwatch seems worrying.Worrying indeed. Quite spellbinding to be fair. Thing that gets me, is from what I see, there isnt any big socialist movements in poland to actually oppose. So why put up a redwatch site link on there? (if this is true). I think in the UK, redwatch is aimed at anarchists just as much as communists.

[Pogue]

They are clearly just being anti-authoritarian socialist, i.e. Leninists, Trots, etc. Thats fair enough.

And the redwatch they link to is clearly a joke, a piss take of how Nazis see communism in everything.

[Sasha]

. So why put up a redwatch site link on there? (if this is true). I think in the UK, redwatch is aimed at anarchists just as much as communists.

people

should

read

the

link

in

question

before

they

make

stupid

claims...

(click here for OMFG! EVIL POLISH ANTIFA LINK TO REDWATCH!! HOW CAN THIS BE!!! page in question (http://redwatch.50webs.com/sites/redwatch.htm))

[rednordman]

HaHa:lol: I thought you where going to respond like that, you have a shorter fuse than I have.

[Tjis]

haha that redwatch site is awesome!
To be fair, I don't think they had that awesome front page article yesterday. I did wonder why they had donald duck in their top banner though. That explains it all :lol:.

[Pia Fidelis]

As discussed on another board, this band is not National Socialist. The attack on them was pretty pathetic - while they were changing into their traditional attire for the show.

I am all for smashing up a Nazi show, but this was misplaced totally. Black Metal is one of those genres that is really hard to decipher who is and is not NS. Of all bands to be targeted, Kroda? Silly in my opinion. Why is it that Antifa never stepped in when Der Strumer or Nokturnal Mortum played their shows in Poland? If anything this just makes the Antifa look like they are targeting Metal, not Nazis.

[Tjis]

As discussed on another board, this band is not National Socialist. The attack on them was pretty pathetic - while they were changing into their traditional attire for the show.

I am all for smashing up a Nazi show, but this was misplaced totally. Black Metal is one of those genres that is really hard to decipher who is and is not NS. Of all bands to be targeted, Kroda? Silly in my opinion. Why is it that Antifa never stepped in when Der Strumer or Nokturnal Mortum played their shows in Poland? If anything this just makes the Antifa look like they are targeting Metal, not Nazis.

Though they have no explicit nazi lyrics apparently, the band is still national socialist.
Have a look at their encyclopedia metallium page (http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=35759).
Eisenslav (one of the two members of Kroda) plays in NSBM band Volhv under the name Ogneslov, and also in Svarka. Though the page of Svarka doesn't mention them being NSBM it does say members of Svarka are in Apartheid (no page available but take a guess what their politics are going to be) and Seitar (NSBM, Rock Against Communism). Together with some other bands, Kroda seems to be a member of some group called "Opposition union". All bands of this group that have a page in the encyclopedia metallium seem to either be NSBM, or have members playing in NSBM bands.

So yes, they are a nazi band.

Edit: also they previously published on this label: http://www.thepaganfront.com/anp/main.htm
Click on propaganda on that site and tell me with a straight face that that is not fascist.

"the pagan front", the site where this label is hosted is clearly affiliated with Kroda because they have a message about the attack on their front page (it's the same message as was posted on that other site, mighty pagan hammer and everything). the pagan front seems to act as a nsbm hosting site according to http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/The_Pagan_Front, hosting for example the pages of the bands Graveland and Absurd (both well known NSBM bands).

[Pia Fidelis]

Oh! Honestly, I do not listen to metal (or really know enough about it) - I was simply going on things I had heard from other boards. Thank you for the clarification.

I still pose the question why Polish Antifa did not do similar when the other overtly nazi bands played.

[teenagebricks]

Yeah, although many of them are violent hooligans (no shame in that), Antifa are not idiots, I highly doubt they would attack a band without doing their homework first. What Tjis posted clearly proves that the victims were members of a NSBM band, they got what they deserved.

[Black Sheep]

Also, i'd rather they protested during the gig too.

Not like hey they are nazis lets- 'DAMN,THEY'RE PLAYING SLAYAH!! SLAYAAAAHHH'

2hrs later

'Ok they're done, lets kick their asses' :D

[Tjis]

Oh! Honestly, I do not listen to metal (or really know enough about it) - I was simply going on things I had heard from other boards. Thank you for the clarification.

I still pose the question why Polish Antifa did not do similar when the other overtly nazi bands played.
All information in my pot was the result of one hour of clicking links.
The reason this seems to be discussed so much in black metal circles too is this myspace post by Kroda:
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=187880345&blogId=497723861

here's how they argue that they're not nazi.

It seems antifa don’t know what is NSBM, if they use this stereotype towards our band. NSBM are bands like DER STURMER or THOR'S HAMMER, for example; i.e. formations where basic themes are political and social aspects, aesthetics of Third Reich etc. But KRODA (even purely stylistics-wise) is Pagan Metal. In difference from NSBM, in Pagan Metal (just look at the name, it’s obvious) there’s no political component. Lyrical side of Pagan Metal is Antiquity, Traditionalism, Ancestral Roots Pride (those able to read – just look at KRODA texts published on our official site). And still we want to say that our group is OUT of modern politics.
Kroda could be singing about daisies and butterflies really, that'd still not make them any less nazi considering their membership of and affiliation with various nsbm bands and labels.

Here's where they call upon the rest of the black metal scene.


Summing up: We call all the listeners, musicians, labels, zines connected with Pagan and Black Metal to answer every antifa boycott of our music and bands with counter boycott. Don’t let them manipulate you! Don’t let them to destroy Pagan Metal subculture and our European traditional culture. Strike them back on psychological and bureaucratic level, as well as by physical action. Gangs of that scum must be recognized as criminal and determined as «outlaw» as they already done it with you for a long time. Guilty will be punished.
I assume this message is being distributed in the black metal scene, reaching people that don't know anything about the band (which is probably 99% of the scene). Of course they're going to be outraged because they don't know the whole story.

[RedStar]

Kroda could be singing about daisies and butterflies really, that'd still not make them any less nazi considering their membership of and affiliation with various nsbm bands and labels.
Well i really don't know this band but as far as i can see they are more into pagan and folk themes, mainly against christianity and not openly NS. But i agree that their affiliation brings them into the same circle although they might themselves not belong really there. But if you go onto Kroda's page on Metal Archives and click there on the band Lut which they are affiliated with in the "Opposition" (and look at that "funny" guy on the right) gives them right away.
And i would certainly say what the f**k has politics to do with black metal??? I mean if they even play black metal.

My main point is that i myself being a Slav and related with all the other Slavic peoples cannot really understand these people whether those in the questioning case were being bands, labels or people in general. It is utmost ironic,stupid and pointless for me that Slavic people accept and adhere to ideologies that find their roots in an ideology that was actually used in the past as a "weapon" directed against their extermination. I just cannot grasp that thinking and get in their picture.:confused:

[Tjis]

My main point is that i myself being a Slav and related with all the other Slavic peoples cannot really understand these people whether those in the questioning case were being bands, labels or people in general. It is utmost ironic,stupid and pointless for me that Slavic people accept and adhere to ideologies that find their roots in an ideology that was actually used in the past as a "weapon" directed against their extermination. I just cannot grasp that thinking and get in their picture.:confused:

The answer to this is not very exciting. Apparently Slavic people were Aryan all along, and the reason Hitler saw the Slavic people as inferior was because of yet another Jewish conspiracy according to these guys :rolleyes:. Other bands merely say that it was a mistake from Hitler to not see the Slavic people as Aryan. Anyway, it seems that the entire NSBM scene considers Slavic people to be Aryan.

[Pogue]

Ancestral Roots Pride



our European traditional culture.


Yeh that doesn't sound at all fascistic to me. ;)

[Ravachol]

I'd like to meet the type of person that threatens people with The Pagan Hammer of the Underground. Somehow I suspect that they wouldn't be able to lift the thing.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p98/yuro91/GravelandPic.jpg?t=1246553221

This kind of loser most likely.
Some inbred hick-gone-metal NSBM loser hiding in mommy's basement while jacking off to his Waffen-SS Posters.

Seriously, NSBM cracks me up, bunch of nutters. :laugh:


All information in my pot was the result of one hour of clicking links.
The reason this seems to be discussed so much in black metal circles too is this myspace post by Kroda:
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=187880345&blogId=497723861

here's how they argue that they're not nazi.

Kroda could be singing about daisies and butterflies really, that'd still not make them any less nazi considering their membership of and affiliation with various nsbm bands and labels.

Here's where they call upon the rest of the black metal scene.

I assume this message is being distributed in the black metal scene, reaching people that don't know anything about the band (which is probably 99% of the scene). Of course they're going to be outraged because they don't know the whole story.

Many NSBM bands call themselves 'pagan metal', black metal's really a labyrinth of symbolism nowadays.
I used to enjoy black metal and NeoFolk, until the sharp rise in NS-influenced crap.

A lot of NSBM bands are pretty open about it, like Absurd, Ad Hominem, Temnozor.
But some other, while seemingly 'innocent' are in fact just as fascist as the openly NSBM bands.
There is a thin line between singing about 'heritage and culture' and outright fascisme, ultraconservatism and nationalism of course, the former being no crime obviously.
The problem lies in the fact that most black metal/pagan metal/neofolk bands that border on NS-thought use highly symbolic lyrics making it pretty hard to decipher their true intentions.
Take Sol Invictus for example, aside from the lead singer being an ex-NF member, the band seems pretty 'clean'.
Take a deeper look and the lyrics and songs are about 'the death of the west' and 'amongst the ruins' all clear references to (neo-)fascists like Julius Evola, Oswald Spengler and Francis Parker Yockey.

As I said, it's hard to determine the true intentions of a lot of these bands.
Nevertheless, Kroda is an NS-affiliated band and those clowns got what they deserved, serves them just right.

[RedStar]

A lot of NSBM bands are pretty open about it, like Absurd, Ad Hominem, Temnozor.
But some other, while seemingly 'innocent' are in fact just as fascist as the openly NSBM bands.
There is a thin line between singing about 'heritage and culture' and outright fascisme, ultraconservatism and nationalism of course, the former being no crime obviously.
The problem lies in the fact that most black metal/pagan metal/neofolk bands that border on NS-thought use highly symbolic lyrics making it pretty hard to decipher their true intentions.
You pretty much summed up what i exactly wanted to say.

[Verix]

the Pagan Hammer of the Underground will strike, and smash, those who dare
to challenge the Heathen Metal Militia!


http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_21/1126701402a9SNmB.jpg

[communard resolution]

Sorry to jump in so late, as a Polish speaker I could have been of some help earlier on.

I confirm that the presumed 'Redwatch' website is a spoof. There is a small print disclaimer on the bottom saying that the site was set up by a few anarchist pals in order to ridicule fascists and the far right.

I heard of one incident in Wroclaw, however, where Polish Antifa physically attacked protesters at an anti-fascist march for carrying red banners. I have only heard this from one (Leninist) source, though. The source presented a photo that showed a couple of Antifa kicking a presumed communist who was already lying down. I have, however, no idea what preceded the confrontation, how it built up, how biased the source was etc... so it might not be true at all. Every tendency has their own resident liars and shitstirrers.

It should come as no surprise that there is no love lost between most Poles and communism. You can't blame a people that has been shat on for so long for detesting anything remotely reminding them of their tyrants. Most of these young anti-fascists, though, have not lived through PRL days, have access to a lot of information, and should know better than to liken communism to the PZPR yoke. I sincerely hope they do.

[ls]

Anti-polonism, the Stalinist's favourite not-so-secret shame. Who are "they"? Did the Poles who were born after the war and were shat on by Moscow and its satellite government in Warsaw for 40 years sign a non-aggression pact with Hitler? Did my parents or I sign a contract with Hitler? Did the Antifa kids in Warsaw sign a contract with Hitler?

Didn't you know? All the people of all 'reactionary countries' are Fascist scum who need some gulag labour right away, especially Polakkklan$men.

[9]

These Antifa kiddies are stoopid for not attacking a band that was MOAR NAZI, so we must discredit this as a failure!


:rolleyes:

[Stand Your Ground]

Nice. Good to see active Antifa.

[The Bear]

is this band acctually nazi band ? :confused:

[Holden Caulfield]

yep, but this thread is way old, let it die people, don't want it to seem like we are gonna dwell on one relatively small act of antifascism when there are much better acts to dwell on