New Democratic Party of Canada

[Seodanrot]

Seeing this is a Democratic socialism party in Canada I think it's a party worth supporting seeing how they are back by the Communist party of Canada and The Green party it looks like a win win situation seeing how they are on the rise of popularity. If anyone has any insight please share your thoughts.

[Seodanrot]

New Democrats today advocate, among other things:

* Sweeping environmental protection
* National water safety standards
* Increasing corporate taxes[1]
* Reducing poverty in Canada[2]
* Human rights protection
* Expanded high-quality public transportation
* Public health care including expanded dental and prescription drug coverage,
* Social assistance policies that reflects citizens' needs and assists their re-entry to the work force
* Gender equality and equal rights for gays, lesbians, and minorities
* Abolish the un-elected Senate and ensure more proportional representation[3]
* Workers' rights including raising the minimum wage to at least keep up with the cost of living
* Aboriginal treaty, land, and constitutional rights
* A foreign policy that emphasizes diplomacy, peacekeeping and humanitarian aid instead of offensive military action
* Renegotiating the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)
* One wing is focused on ending the Canadian War on Drugs and legalizing recreational drugs[4]

The NDP has never formed the federal government, but has at times wielded influence during federal minority governments, such as in the current 40th Parliament as well as the preceding 39th and (particularly) the 38th Parliaments of 2004-2008. The NDP also enjoyed considerable influence during the earlier minority Liberal governments of Lester B. Pearson and Pierre Trudeau, due to being a large enough group to decide outcomes when the others are split. Provincial New Democratic Parties, technically sections of the federal party, have governed in half the provinces and a territory. They currently govern the provinces of Manitoba and Nova Scotia, form the Official Opposition in British Columbia and Saskatchewan, and have sitting members in every provincial legislature except those of Quebec (where there is no provincial NDP), New Brunswick (although the New Brunswick NDP had an elected member until 2006) and Prince Edward Island. They have previously formed governments in the provinces of Ontario, Saskatchewan and British Columbia, and in the Yukon Territory. The NDP also formed the official opposition in Alberta during the 1980s.

The New Democrats are also active municipally, and have been elected mayors, councilors, and school and service board members — Toronto mayor David Miller is a leading example, although he did not renew his membership in 2007. Most municipal office-holders in Canada are usually elected as independents

[Revy]

Seeing this is a Democratic socialism party in Canada I think it's a party worth supporting seeing how they are back by the Communist party of Canada and The Green party it looks like a win win situation seeing how they are on the rise of popularity. If anyone has any insight please share your thoughts.

They are not a socialist party.

"Democratic socialism" should not be interchangeable with "social democracy" - to concede this label to them concedes the whole idea of a democratic form of socialism to a bunch of liberal cappies.

If the Communist Party of Canada supports the NDP well that really underscores the crisis in the Canadian left. If I lived in Canada I guess I would be a member of the New Socialist Group....

[Die Neue Zeit]

Except that the NSG isn't even bothering to form a political party. :(

The sooner the demise of both the "Socialist Caucus" and the "Socialist Party of Canada," the better.

[Revy]

Except that the NSG isn't even bothering to form a political party. :(

The sooner the demise of both the "Socialist Caucus" and the "Socialist Party of Canada," the better.

I was about to comment that the SPC might as well be dead - but apparently it still is active, because they have a Winter 2009 issue of their party journal.

I suppose the Socialist Party of Canada can be entered into and turned (or rather, re-oriented, if anyone knows the history of the SPC) into a party like the one both of us would like to see.

[Seodanrot]

I am pretty sure tho that the NDP can be molded tho once it's in office. Plus Considering the the other two choices I rather vote the NDP then the Canadian Liberal part and I would never look in the direction of the Progressive Conservatives. Given the options and what many of those parties reppresent I'd sooner pick the NDP and fuck the right-wing dumb dumbs.

[Revy]

I am pretty sure tho that the NDP can be molded tho once it's in office. Plus Considering the the other two choices I rather vote the NDP then the Canadian Liberal part and I would never look in the direction of the Progressive Conservatives. Given the options and what many of those parties reppresent I'd sooner pick the NDP and fuck the right-wing dumb dumbs.

Voting for the lesser evil of all options in the absence of a socialist alternative is a lot different than declaring your support for that party.

When we build a party, it has to be a socialist one. Trying to move a bourgeois party in a socialist direction will always fail because the capitalist faction will always be more powerful. It is better to create/join a socialist party and build it from the ground up.

[Seodanrot]

You have a point so who do I vote for then?

[Q]

The IMT is active in the NDP, using their universal remedy of entryism. I don't know why they bother though as, as far I know, the NDP doesn't have an activist layer, isn't a mass party and isn't much of a progressive force at all outside parliament.

[Seodanrot]

Perhaps the Communist party of Canada even tho I don't hear much shit coming from them these days.

[jake williams]

The IMT is active in the NDP, using their universal remedy of entryism. I don't know why they bother though as, as far I know, the NDP doesn't have an activist layer, isn't a mass party and isn't much of a progressive force at all outside parliament.
Because they're delusional.

And the CPC doesn't support the NDP. But yes, it's better to have a social democrat than a considerably more right wing party in power.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The NDP are basically Blairites, though, and not "social-democrats" in the sense of Die Linke.

[Demogorgon]

The NDP are basically Blairites, though, and not "social-democrats" in the sense of Die Linke.
Nah, they are nothing like as bad as that. The Liberal party of Canada is to the left of Blair (and they aren't exactly left are they?) and the NDP is more left than them. Blair would politically fit at the moderate side of the Conservative Party in Canadian terms.

Anyway the party is better than the other two main all-Canada parties (and better than the bloc). I wouldn't all it good in of itself of course, though there is plenty of room for entryism. The trouble is of course that whenever it gets into office at the Provincial level it is scarcely any different from the Liberal Party.

[Dimentio]

Parties are usually as radical as the conditions allow them to be.

If the people of Canada had wanted a marxist-leninist party, they would most likely have elected one into power.

In most developed nations, hardcore leftist parties generally have a maximum of 10% potential voters during current conditions.

[LOLseph Stalin]

The IMT is active in the NDP, using their universal remedy of entryism. I don't know why they bother though as, as far I know, the NDP doesn't have an activist layer, isn't a mass party and isn't much of a progressive force at all outside parliament.

The IMT is working within The NDP to at least try to radicalize some of the members. To go back to the original point, Another problem is that many of the workers who would vote NDP don't bother voting. They feel their votes won't count for anything, considering none of the parties seem to care about the masses. If more working people voted then maybe The NDP would consider changing its platform slightly to better reflect the needs of the workers. Damn, I'm sounding way too optimistic... Anyway, my point is that the workers need to act first before any change will occur.

[Hyacinth]

You have a point so who do I vote for then?
If all the choices are bad, you don't. It only legitimizes the system. Which isn't to say that not voting implies inaction and disengagement from politics, far from it, one can become more meaningfully involved by, for instance, protesting the sham 'democracy' that we have instead.

[Hyacinth]

The IMT is working within The NDP to at least try to radicalize some of the members. To go back to the original point, Another problem is that many of the workers who would vote NDP don't bother voting. They feel their votes won't count for anything, considering none of the parties seem to care about the masses. If more working people voted then maybe The NDP would consider changing its platform slightly to better reflect the needs of the workers. Damn, I'm sounding way too optimistic... Anyway, my point is that the workers need to act first before any change will occur.
And they're right, their votes won't change anything, telling workers otherwise would simply be lying to them. In bourgeois democracy it is, as the name suggests, the bourgeois that make all the important decisions, the rest of us are, as Marx said, given the privileged of choosing which members of the ruling class will oppress and exploit until the next electoral period. It is better to devote our efforts to educating and organizing workers, rather than campaigning on behalf of some bourgeois party. For all their pretty sounding slogans social-democracy and reformism have proven themselves, time and time again, completely bankrupt, because once in power all the rhetoric gets abandoned and the social-democrats get on with the business of ruling on behalf of business.

[Charles Xavier]

As one of the Forum's few members of the Communist Party of Canada, I would like to make it clear we do not back the NDP. We do however support progressive pro-worker politicians getting into power, we support left wing social democrats not all of the NDP. We are not enemies of the NDP they are the party of the trade union movement. However the leadership of the NDP is has consistently alienated its base everytime it has gone into power.

[Die Neue Zeit]

If all the choices are bad, you don't. It only legitimizes the system. Which isn't to say that not voting implies inaction and disengagement from politics, far from it, one can become more meaningfully involved by, for instance, protesting the sham 'democracy' that we have instead.

FYI for other posters: "not voting" also includes spoilages and spoilage campaigns. :)

[Salyut]

As one of the Forum's few members of the Communist Party of Canada, I would like to make it clear we do not back the NDP. We do however support progressive pro-worker politicians getting into power, we support left wing social democrats not all of the NDP. We are not enemies of the NDP they are the party of the trade union movement. However the leadership of the NDP is has consistently alienated its base everytime it has gone into power.

^ Thisx1000.

For example, the new head of the Saskatchewan NDP served on the board of some large petrochemical company in Alberta before he came back and got elected (over the younger and more radical candidates).

While I'm interested in seeing what the IMT can accomplish - I don't think they'll have much luck. The modern NDP is pretty much divorced from the socialist ideals of the CCF. If we could just have a united leftist front (ala Unite the Right) in Canada we might be able to get things done. But we're just too damn factional and we're suffering for it. ;_;

[Lynx]

The NDP are opportunists. This was certainly the case in Nova Scotia, where they successfully painted themselves as centrists.
Federally, the NDP would be the party of choice for any movement towards the left. It would be quite a task to convince workers to place their support elsewhere.

[Faust]

I read somewhere that the NDP blends aspects of socialism and capitalism.. which seems to me as slightly contradictory.

The Communist Party of Canada is still active, they ran a few candidates in the last provincial election. Zach Krispin out in Kootenay got around seventeen percent of the student vote... I think. (I'm pulling all these facts from my memory, correct me if I'm wrong, or message me if you doubt them, I'll verify the facts.)

I'm not sure how Miguel Figueroa did, the party leader, I think he ran in Vancouver.
Communist and Socialist parties in Canada are sparse, we haven't had a communist MP since the thirties. The left have had some victories, like Quebec-Solidaire, who is the "most left" party to have been elected .. since the thirties.

[Charles Xavier]

Actually the last communist MP was fred rose and he was convicted by a phony court of being a soviet spy and sentences to prison for his entire term in office. But the reason we don't have MPs is more on the media saturation by the big parties and funding they have rather than the quality of our program. Our party is a revolutionary party, not a bourgeiosie democratic party while we do not say there should be no parliamentary struggle we do think mass democratic and extra-parliamentry struggle is key especially in connection with the trade union movement.

The masters will never give us anything we haven't fought for. Our job as communists is to fight for the workers to be their own masters.