che was an evil maoist who wanted to nuke the world

[scarletghoul]

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-should-che-be-an-icon-no-394336.html


The myth of Che Guevara is seductive and lush. It's the story of an Argentinian rich-boy who was so shocked by poverty he became a Robin Hood fighting alongside the poor, until eventually he was murdered by the CIA. But the reality of Che Guevara is very different. The facts show that he was a totalitarian with a messiah streak, who openly wanted to impose Maoist tyranny on the world. He was so fanatical that at the hottest moment in the Cold War, he even begged the Soviet Union to nuke New York or Washington or Los Angeles and bring about the end of the world.


Check it out, discuss

[Manifesto]

I highly doubt any of that is true.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I highly doubt any of that is true.

Yea. I'm not fond of Che myself, but this still sounds like a load of Bourgeois propaganda BS. Sure, he supported people such as Stalin, but that was common at the time. He would have been an obvious target for propaganda too considering he played a big role in liberating Cuba and other places from Capitalist control.

[Communist Theory]

Lol I thought Che was a critic of the USSR.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Lol I thought Che was a critic of the USSR.

Nope, I'm pretty sure he was a Stalinist.

[Pogue]

He was, he was very critical of Stalin in later years.

[OneNamedNameLess]

What a load of tripe. This is from the Independent which tends to be more left leaning too.

[scarletghoul]

That and the USSR wasnt even stalinist in his time so yeah. He wasnt totally anti-USSR, but he leaned more towards China and maoism.

[R_P_A_S]

Nope, I'm pretty sure he was a Stalinist.

For someone with as many post as you I'd think you'd know the Che was dissolution with The Soviet Union, which at the time it was Stalinist.

[Leo]

Guevara was critical of the Soviet regime which was, despite Khruschev denounced Stalin himself carried all the typical characteristics of a Stalinist regime since the term does not mean liking Stalin. It is also true that he was close to the regime in China, although his position was mostly one of reconciliation within the Stalinist camp. Lastly it is true that Guevara as well as Castro indeed declared themselves for nuking the West, this was very clearly manifested during the Cuban missile crisis.

[bellyscratch]

What a load of tripe. This is from the Independent which tends to be more left leaning too.

I was just about to say almost exactly the same thing. I would say 'great minds think alike', but I don't have a great mind :D

[h9socialist]

Whoever wrote the initial quote must be on the payroll of the Republican National Committee. Che was not a Maoist or a Stalinist -- he was influenced by some of their ideas, but for the most part Che was trying to figure out how to be a totally consistent socialist -- thus, his idea of "the new socialist man." As to the Cold War rhetoric -- it's so out of date and contextual as to be irrelevant by today's standards.

[RedRise]

Che an evil maoist? Does scarletghoul know what they're talking about? I highly doubt it.
I can understand why some people may be critical of him, but I agree with SolidarityWithIran. Last time I checked this was a Revolutionary Leftist forum.:mad:

[Hiero]

What proof is there that Che was anti-USSR?

Given the extent of Che's visits to national-liberation governments of Asia, Africa and Middle East, Che Guevara was primarily a third world liberationist.

I have never seen any proof that he was explicitly anti-Soviet.

[khad]

He was, he was very critical of Stalin in later years.
And I think he made a mistake, given the reactionary position the PRC took towards socialist liberation movements around the world since the 70s going into the 80s. Cuba was fighting the Chinese supported pro-Apartheid SA forces in Angola.

[Kukulofori]

Wow, I didn't realise Maoism involved nuking the world. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

[Radical]

Nope, I'm pretty sure he was a Stalinist.

Anybody that isent Trotskyist is Stalinist to you

[h9socialist]

1. Che did not want to NUKE anybody. He wanted Cuba to keep the Russian nukes as a deterrent against invasion. While I think the whole idea was wreckless, I can say that I see a big difference between this and wanting to blow up the world.
2. Mao called nuclear weapons a "paper tiger." How does that square with the idea of Maoism wanting to nuke the US or any other country? (Let me save you time, IT DOESN'T).
3. Che wanted to start "one, two, many Vietnams," NOT blow up the world.
4. Have you evere seen Oliver Stone's "Comandante" -- three day interview with Fidel Castro? Fidel was adamant that Che did not hate the American people, only American Imperialism!
5. Che criticized the Russians at the Afro-Asia Conference in 1965. It was taken badly by the Soviets, but if you just read the words, it's hardly "scathing," by today's standards.
6. I can't believe we're wasting our time on this kind of unproductive debate in a forum associated with the Che Lives website. If you're going to criticize Che, at least get your facts straight. That's all Comandante Guevara would have asked.

[RedRise]

6. I can't believe we're wasting our time on this kind of unproductive debate in a forum associated with the Che Lives website. If you're going to criticize Che, at least get your facts straight. That's all Comandante Guevara would have asked.

In agreement over here! Che was a hero, and why do you associate Maoists with nuking the world?:confused:

[h9socialist]

I don't but some of the preceding dialogue seemed pretty suggestive of it. For whatever else one wishes to say about Mao, he was not a madman looking to blow up the world, and neither was Che.

[scarletghoul]

This thread was actually a joke, designed to mock the anticommunist propaganda by giving the most ridiculous example I could find. It's alarming that there were so many serious responses...

[h9socialist]

As the Checkered Demon said in Zap Comix 40 years ago: "Fuck with the bull and you get the horns!":D

[RedRise]

Nice experiment!:thumbup1:What gave u the idea?


the most ridiculous example I could find

I think ridiculous would be to put it mildly! It's bloody outrageous!:rolleyes: Glad u don't actually think that!:rolleyes:

[Conquer or Die]

To be fair, it would be better if a concerted effort at diffusing Humberto Fontova's book took place in a scholarly, factual way. Fontova can point to his misrepresented, fake, or even real sources and smash everybody who posted in this thread.

[Montes]

What proof is there that Che was anti-USSR?

Given the extent of Che's visits to national-liberation governments of Asia, Africa and Middle East, Che Guevara was primarily a third world liberationist.

I have never seen any proof that he was explicitly anti-Soviet.

I believe I read a quote attributed to Che saying something along the lines of "I hate Soviet imperialism almost as much as I hate Yanki imperialism!"

But then again, I could be wrong.

[Zolken]

Nope, I'm pretty sure he was a Stalinist.

Che was a Guevarist.




Braun

[pastradamus]

He was, he was very critical of Stalin in later years.

Che was very critical of Stalin all his life.

[pastradamus]

Nope, I'm pretty sure he was a Stalinist.

No he wasn't. Che was very independent minded. Guevara reacted to most of the evils he saw in the world through the scope of both his own readings and from his real life experiences of the cruelties of capitalism. Guevara was above all a realist. He never conformed to a main stream left wing doctrine. He never acted in a manner befitting similarities of the Maoist nor the Bolshevik revolutions. Castro on the other hand was more of a main stream Marxist-Leninist, Guevara was more interested in the Individual assistance of Humans through the medium of third world leftist liberation movements. He thought people to think and criticize for themselves "you learn to read before you learn to shoot".

[F9]

No he wasn't. Che was very independent minded. Guevara reacted to most of the evils he saw in the world through the scope of both his own readings and from his real life experiences of the cruelties of capitalism. Guevara was above all a realist. He never conformed to a main stream left wing doctrine. He never acted in a manner befitting similarities of the Maoist nor the Bolshevik revolutions. Castro on the other hand was more of a main stream Marxist-Leninist, Guevara was more interested in the Individual assistance of Humans through the medium of third world leftist liberation movements. He thought people to think and criticize for themselves "you learn to read before you learn to shoot".

And we shouldnt forget on what age he was living!An age of mystery, and lots of misinformation, twisting lots of facts, and most communists be dedicated to USSR and stalin as a religion, and believe anything the party says as true. Tough times, and if people werent leaving it from inside they were getting a far better look at stalin and ussr.
But still, Che was from the few criticizing, so yeah, he never was a Stalinist, and those arent implications, those are facts from his writes etc.

[The Bear]

Lol I thought Che was a critic of the USSR.
well he was fan of stalin

[Le Libérer]

Seeing you have admitted this thread is a joke I suggest anyone who wants to participate in a thread on the same subject then participate in this thread. (http://www.revleft.com/vb/che-stalinisti-t96858/index.html)

This thread is closed. Please post joke threads in chitchat.