Rap Music - promoting capitalism?

[commie kg]

From what I've heard of today's rap music, it's all about getting as much money as you can, no matter what the cost.
You know, "hustlin', drug dealin', pimpin', etc."
As a high school student in the USA, I see the influence it has on people. My school has TONS of kids running around with their "crew" hassling rival gangs and taking part in other activities that I despise. They label people as well. If you aren't a "gangsta" then you're a "hick" (these are suburban white kids, BTW).
I think that (new) rap is just widening the gap between whites and minorities that people have been trying to bridge for decades.
Yet I still see "Socialists" that live by this new rap, seemingly oblivious to it's message. Is this type of rap really compatible with Socialism?
Of course, not ALL rap is bad, I've heard some good stuff, but it seems the majority just supports rape, pimping, drug dealing, and murder.

What does everyone else think?

[canikickit]

Of course. It has become pop music now, the majority of it. All the popular culture of the US propagates a capitalist mind set. Maybe not quite all, but a good 90%+, I'd bet.

Is hip hop any worse? Quite possibly, it is more adept at putting out it's message - the lyrics say exactly what they mean, for the most part, so there's often not that much room for interpretation.

[truthaddict11]

The Coup (http://www.thecoup.net)

I think canikickit puts it well, this should be moved to music

[Iepilei]

gangsta-thug is the bane on our society. the oppressed advocating the same system that hinders them, day in-day out.

[Hodgo]

I can understand your point, and its definately worth bringing up, but to be honest I think while its great that someones actualy questioning the materialism and obsession with money that alot of rappers embrace, you're kind of missing the point.

Rap, real rap, was conceived by struggling classes, specifically, poor black Americans. When todays rappers sing about hustling and getting money, its not so much a shout-out to materialism and capitalism, but if anything a reflection of the evils of capitalism: they're rapping about how they're forced to resort to shady measures (e.g dealing, pimping, involvement in gang life) so as to get money, so as to eat and to get out of the ghetto, where the bouergeois-ruled system has placed them.

A good example of this mentality would be this excerpt from "Cant Hustle For Ever" by Krayzie Bone, from his album "Thug On Da Line":

"Gotta go out and get the rent pay
So I'ma be out here on this block with these rocks and this glock
Until I profit could you stop it?
Mama used to say "but until I see it better, it got to be this way"
And it don't look like I be going nowhere, nowhere...."

"If I don't hustle I can't eat
So in these streets it's you and me
Takin these fair penitentiary chances...."

Okay, so thats two excerpts, but hey, shit happens :).

I know you said all rappers are different, but I think this is the attitude most rappers take when they're talking about profts and material gain, basically they feel they're being forced to do this shit in order to survive. Thats just my interpretation of it though, there's no right or wrong view.

Of course, there's always going to be the posers who talk about it just to fit the cli'ches, at the moment its Ja Rule and some others. This pisses me off, but every genre of music has them.

(Edited by Hodgo at 1:06 pm on April 1, 2003)

[Dhul Fiqar]

I find it interesting how people assume the link is causal, from rap to behaviour.

Wouldn't it make more sense if you think about it in terms of people that have an interest in the sort of things the music talks about would go out and buy that very music? Why on earth would one assume that people are behaving like they do BECAUSE of the music they choose?

I find it rather obvious that you would choose music that fits with your lifestyle, and not the other way around.

--- G.

[mentalbunny]

Good point Dhul, I reckon it works both ways.

But here you could easily be talking about rock or metal instead of rap, look at Metallica (ok, so they don't necessarily sing aobut it all the time, but look at their bank accounts) and Kiss (all that merchandise).

I get really annoyed when songs are all about money and stuff, but there's nothing I can do. At the moment, the big one is 50 Cents "Get rich or die trying", what knid of a message is that? The problem is, not everyone can be rich in that sense, that's what no one sees because they're not looking at anyone else.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Well, it's part of the "get out of the ghetto" mentality. That is to say, to make it in the White Man's World ™ you need to have the 'green', ehh... ya'll.... ;)

In any case, it's a sad state of affairs where it's popular to glorify capitalism. It's especially sad when it's done by the very victims of that capitalism, or rather the few lucky ones out of the hood that escaped being it's victims.

--- G.

[chamo]

Why on earth would one assume that people are behaving like they do BECAUSE of the music they choose?

I find it rather obvious that you would choose music that fits with your lifestyle, and not the other way around.

That's the point right there, goths do not listen to Kylie Minogue, I do not listen to Marilyn Manson. However, who is to say the music does not hold some influence over what people do because alot of people want to behave like their idols.

The fact is that rap emulates the mentality of money burners, pimps, shing gold medallion fucked up shit and drug dealing. Either the music epitomises the behaviour or the music influences the behaviour. I find it is more likely to be the former and not the latter, yet it is still a sad thing to see people wanting to live it up like crazy *****es with their flash cars and pimp gear.

[praxis1966]

First of all, I highly doubt that the rappers you guys are on about actually live the lives they describe in their music. Mostly IMO popular rap is nothing more than the glam rock of today: primarily showmanship. In other words, people like eminem, Ja-Rule, JayZ, and the like are nothing but a bunch of posers.

There are some very good politically conscious rappers out there however. Ded Prez, J-live, Last Emporer, and The Roots are just a few.

[chamo]

heh-heh, wait till Lardlad gets here;)

Plus Praxis, I think you're probably right about most rappers being posers, and more politically minded such as Dead Prez are the real deal. However, most rap, as well as most music has the culture that comes with it.

[Umoja]

The problem with most mainstream rap, is it isn't about making it in the White mans world. There exist a distinct Black Bourgeious (SP?) that is quite different from it's white counter part. Rappers in big in this class, probubly close to the top. The thing is though, they don't want to get out of the ghetto. They want a nice car, but still want to live like trash, even though they don't. They only advocate this stuff, because the record labels don't care, they are generally made up of whites who don't care if the message to black people is negative. It helps to keep the slave mentality stronger in the black community. For example, the notorious "n-word" has almost lost meaning because of rappers (and Paul Mooney), despite the fact that it still holds influence among other races. Confusing issue, don't want to tie it into rap, but I guess I'd sum up by saying that the hip-hop culture is now mainly dominated by rappers who care more about money then they do about the community. Which ironically makes them the real "Uncle Toms" despite the fact that "Skinny black guys with Glasses" (Like me!) get painted as the Uncle Toms instead.

[Political Suicide]

#Moderation Mode

Music people. Music. If its Music-related, put it in Music. If its about cheese, but it in chit chat, unless of course you think that the cheese in the fridge is trying to dominate the free market world and you bring forth substantial evidence, then you put it somewhere else.

Moved here (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=16&topic=909)

[Dirty Jersey]

what do you mean rappers dont want out of the ghetto? why the hell do you think they got famous in the first place? its just that if they dont keep that mentality people will think theyve gone soft and not buy the next album. and dont generalize rap music as a whole. you also have conscious rap which is very positive. hip hop is mostly about women and money.

[Umoja]

I'm a hard-core listener of Dead Prez mind you. I just don't like most mainstream rap.

[Palmares]

I feel sorry for the true rap MCs.

Sometimes... it truly seems rap... is crap.

I still like Nas though.

[Umoja]

That new Nas sound, I heard it on the radio, I was so happy. I was like "Yes! Positive Mainstream black music!" If only Dead Prez could be played on the radio...