Indian Communism

[Faust]

Alrighty, I'm just curious as to what people think about the current unrest in Bengal, India between Maoist revolutionaries and the Marxists.
I think it's ridiculous that we have to communist parties fighting against one another... but I don't really know much about the situation. Help me out!

:hammersickle:

[amandevsingh]

I would like to point out that Naxalites have 'liberated zones' in many states, e.g. Jharkand, not only West Bengal. There is also a fledgling development in Punjab.

I don't think that socialist is a Naxal sympathizer, though I can't speak for him. It seemed that he agrees with their tactics more then CPI(M)'s. I must contest this one. Although the Maoists are arming their peasants, their revolution is hardly making any decisions that are harmonius with a true protracted people's war; the LTTE and Khalistani movements should have shown that this cops and robbers movement (or Naxal and Salwa Judum movement :tt2:) won't work. The CPI(M) have built such workers organisations like All India Kisan Sabha, sub-par but effective when compared with the Maoist 'revolution'.

[scarletghoul]

short summary-
The CPI(Marxist) completely suck and are not proper communists. The naxalites/maoists are awesome and trying to overthrow the bourgeois indian state

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

I don't know much about the situation in India in particular, but I have to say Maoists have proven to be more men of action, while "Marxist" is a vague name and can mean almost any kind of Communism.

[himalayanspirit]

The CPI(M) of India is worst than the nationalist parties of India. What they are doing in West Bengal is that they are snatching away the lands of the peasants (who are mostly the indigeneous people of India who are discriminated by the dominant Aryan majority) and giving them to Multinational Firms for setting up industries under the guise of SEZs (Special economic Zones). In other words, the people who were already in the lower strata of Indian society with their only way of subsistence as agriculture, were being made slaves of some random non-Indian bosses in the west.

Communism is against exploitation of labor. But here the CPI(M) was converting the already oppressed people into slaves of MNCs. CPI(M) is not a communist party - make no mistake - it is a fascist party. After all, fascism means the government dictatorship and control over labor.


I whole heartedly support the struggle of the Maoists/Naxalites who are the true revolutionaries. CPI(M) and others allied to it are just simply hypocrites. The only thing I fear is for the lives of these poor people who, although have nothing to lose now, will only end up losing their lives against the fully armed and weaponized Indian police.


As a concluding point I want to mention about the development and satisfaction of people in the 'liberated zones' through real hardwork and labor, which the CPI(M) led state government couldn't achieve in 25 years. These Maoists had implemented schemes for radical development in their liberated zones in a period of a year or lesser. Thats really commendable.

[Revy]

short summary-
The CPI(Marxist) completely suck and are not proper communists. The naxalites/maoists are awesome and trying to overthrow the bourgeois indian state

Is it right to put so much faith in them? We have seen the failures of the Maoists in Nepal.
How are these Maoists different? It wasn't so long ago that a lot of people were hailing Prachanda, but now they are subject to much cynicism and for good reason.

[scarletghoul]

First, they are very differant groups. just because theyre maoists doesnt mean theyre the same.
second, maybe you should try and understand the situation in Nepal more. the maoists have been tied down by bourgeois democracy and unable to press ahead with the revolution once they got in power. the situation in nepal is far from over

[Matty_UK]

Red Sun: Travels In Naxalite Country (http://www.penguinbooksindia.com/Bookdetail.aspx?bookId=2962#) By Sudeep Chakravarti (http://www.penguinbooksindia.com/AuthorDetail.aspx?AuthID=1772)

‘The Maoists are patriots, by their own admission . . . India’s Maoists do not want a separate country. They already have one. It’s just not the way they would like it—yet.’
In 1967, Naxalbari, a village in West Bengal, became the centre of a Mao-inspired militant peasant uprising guided by firebrand intellectuals. Today, Naxalism is no longer the Che Guevara-style revolution that it was. Spread across 15 of India’s 28 states, it is one of the world’s biggest, most sophisticated extreme-Left movements, and feeds off the misery and anger of the dispossessed. Since the late 1990s, hardly a week has passed without people dying in strikes and counter-strikes by the Maoists—interchangeably known as the Naxalites—and police and paramilitary forces.
In this brilliant and disturbing examination of the ‘Other India’, Sudeep Chakravarti combines political history, extensive interviews and individual case histories as he travels to the heart of Maoist zones in the country: Chhattisgarh (home to the controversial state-sponsored Salwa Judum programme to contain Naxalism), Jharkhand, West Bengal, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh (where a serving chief minister was nearly killed in a landmine explosion triggered by the Naxalites). He meets Maoist leaders and sympathizers, policemen, bureaucrats, politicians, security analysts, development workers, farmers and tribals—people, big and small, who comprise the actors and the audience in this war being fought in jungles and impoverished villages across India. What emerges is a sobering picture of a deeply divided society, and the dangers that lie ahead for India.

Looks an interesting book. The new "Red Star Over China"? I've just ordered it to find out more about the Naxalites, I recommend other sympathetic comrades do the same.

[scarletghoul]

Hmm, looks really cool. I might get that

[himalayanspirit]

How can one generalize most peasants on that basis? The peasantry are a class (albeit most manual laborers are from the discriminated castes), whereas what you're talking about is more of caste discrimination, which in itself is another huge problem.


No, I am not talking about caste discrimination. I only emphasizing that the people who are already discriminated in India on the basis of caste or racial origin, are being oppressed more to the point that they have no other choice but to wield weapons for their rights. Not for nothing are women and children and old men coming to the streets, armed only with nothing more than bows and arrows, and yet cherishing hope of their victory. They are not terrorists or religious fanatics who are fighting for some irrational reasons or just for the sake of their sadism. They are simple peasants, landless laborers, unemployed people, who have their lands as their only hope of survival.



I don't see how non-Indian bosses are any worse than Indian bosses.


Both are just exploiters of labor and laborers. However, the non-Indian ones, especially from the capitalist west, are far more dangerous. And this is evident from what the western capitalists have done to various other countries and peoples, out of their sheer greed, although this is irrelevant to the discussion.


Leave aside the Maoists, can you justify how any 'communist' party can do the exact opposite of what the communism stands for?

Those people have no or little electricity, no roads, no development, no or little education and no other jobs except small scale farming. The CPM state government couldn't provide them education, electricity, roads and development; they how is it justified for them to even snatch away their last hope of subsistence? They would be forced to either submit to the orders of their capitalist bosses, or eat rats for survival.

[amandevsingh]

The CPI(Marxist) completely suck and are not proper communists. The naxalites/maoists are awesome and trying to overthrow the bourgeois indian stateNot completely true, your over-simplification is mis-leading: The CPI(M) has setup the Kisan Sabha, which has done great things for the Indian proletariat, but there are limits to a Communists power in a democratic situation.


CPI(M) is not a communist party - make no mistake - it is a fascist party.
Well... No. Social-Democrats, yes. Fascist, no.


I whole heartedly support the struggle of the Maoists/Naxalites who are the true revolutionaries.I would also, but the conditions are dissimilar to any other People's War. This is by the admittance of a Naxal himself, who had met with Chairman Mao.


Red Sun: Travels In Naxalite Country By Sudeep Chakravarti
One of the most objective books I have read in a very long time.


Indeed, one has to question whether the "official" Communist Parties of all countries are remotely opposed to the bourgeois order at all. Most of them got integrated into the bourgeois order since Stalin and especially after the fall of the Soviet Union. I don't think there is any sense in "reconstructing" such parties as CPI(M) to get into actual working class politics of achieving communism.This is true, there is no possibility of these reformist parties to correct themselves, or it would be a waste of energy. But there are some good comrades in the SFI, DYFI and older Comrades (E.g. Jyoti Basu, etc.). People like Prakash Karat are the true problem, the 'new breed' of CPI(M) comrades.

[Faust]

It's rather annoying that there are so many "communist" parties that have drifted towards the right (Not saying that the CPI(M) has, e'en though they might have. I dont know that much about them). Infighting and sectarianism is a huge problem also.

[RedHal]

http://monthlyreview.org/mrzine/mitra201107.html

"It is not possible therefore to avoid the unpleasant truth anymore. One can borrow S. D. Burman's song to describe what the Communist Party of India (Marxist) was in this state a few decades ago, "you are not what you were." 90% of its members have joined after 1977, 70% after 1991. They do not know the history of sacrifices of the party. To them ideological commitment to revolution and socialism is simply a fading folktale. As the new ideology is development, many of them are associated with the party in the search for personal development. They have come to take, not to give. They are learning different tricks so as to appropriate various privileges by aligning with the governing party. One efficient way to bag privileges is to flatter the masters. The party has turned into a wide open field of flatterers and court jesters. Moreover, there has been a rising dominance of 'anti-socials'. For different reasons, every political party has to lend patronage to 'anti-socials', they remain in the background and are called into duty at urgent times. In the seventies these anti-socials had reached the top rung of Congress party. I fear same fate is awaiting the communist party.
Many of the old people, long time and still party members, who have been through numerous sacrifices and are idealists, are a disheartened, disillusioned lot today. But any organised protest will face party disciplinary action, what will be their support in the twilight of life if the party throws them out?"


http://monthlyreview.org/mrzine/KolkataDemo_14Nov.jpg


- like many other CPs, the CPI(M) has degerated from a revolutionary party into a ruling party.

[himalayanspirit]

Well... No. Social-Democrats, yes. Fascist, no.

Its a dictatorship of the state based on capitalist economic policies, and therefore, it is fascism. If a state can confiscate the land of the people only to sell it to the international capitalists, then this IS fascism. What else is it?


I would also, but the conditions are dissimilar to any other People's War. This is by the admittance of a Naxal himself, who had met with Chairman Mao.

At this moment, I don't care whether the conditions are ripe for a communist revolution or not. The truth is that the state organ - police - is committing atrocities over people at the command of the fascist state government. The people are being pushed back towards the edge of the cliff and have no other option but to retaliate. If the police, which is supposed to protect the people, itself is committing atrocities on people, then the people have right to defend.

THIS is the reason why I support their struggle. Moreover, it is a duty of every communist to condemn the fascists.



In my opinion, the Maoists of India are the closest to anything 'communist' remaining in India. All other so-called 'Communist' parties are simply bourgeouis parties.

[Saorsa]

Is it right to put so much faith in them? We have seen the failures of the Maoists in Nepal.

Precisely which failures were these?


How are these Maoists different? It wasn't so long ago that a lot of people were hailing Prachanda, but now they are subject to much cynicism and for good reason.

Lol the Nepalese Maoists were always "subject to much cynicism" from radical leftists, check any one of a whole number of Revleft threads over the past year or two and that becomes obvious. Revolutions do not happen overnight, they are rarely exactly how textbook leftists like you would like them to be and your blunt dismissal of the revolutionary process unfolding in Nepal atm serves only to reveal your own ignorance and how uninformed you are about what's taking place there.