Taking stock

[REDSOX]

The events in Iran in the past week have generated much interest worldwide especially amongst the Left wing who see the developments in Iran as progressive and potentially revolutionary, but are they, is this a genuine uprising that communists, anachists et al should be supporting or are the events in Iran actually not in the interests of socialists let alone the iranian workers interests.

The events started last week when Iranian electoral authorities had declared Mahmood ahmadinejad current president of the Islamic republic of Iran the victor by 62% of the vote to 33% for Moussavi a former leader under Grand ayatollah khomenei in the 1980's a margin of 11 milion votes. Both men claimed victory moussavi declaring that he had won and ahmadinejad claiming with the backing of the cleric establishment that he had won. Immediately and on queue moussavi's supporters took to the street to protest that the result had been stolen from them although no subsequent evidence as been published to substantiate this. Over the next week Moussavi mobilised his supporters to demonstrate their opposition to the result and ahmadinejad mobilised his supporters to back him with the tacit backing of the Grand Ayatollah. The result is that there is a power struggle going on in Iran between two factions a liberal bourgeois faction and a Conservative faction which is in power. There is also evidence that outside imperialist forces may be intervening covertly to try to either generate more chaos or to influence the mossavi faction to incite protest and rebellion, however whatever is happening these protests are not in the interests of the Iranian working class and poor who quite rightly have overwhelmingly stayed on the sidelines while this power struggle plays out. The working class may intervene independently of these factions to demand its interests taking advantage of the situation which is unfolding or worse still from the socialist point of view could be called on by either faction to take on the other resulting in chaos. I for one see nothing progressive in backing one faction against the other and the working class must not be drawn into supporting one or other of the factions which thankfully they have not. The working class and poor must mobilise according to their own interests not the clerics or the imperialists outside agitators. If this happens and there is then a showdown with the clerics then i will back them all the way.

[Pogue]

Are you thick? No one is supporting one bourgeoisie faction over another - we are supporting the people of Iran in their fight against tyranny.

You fucking dictator lapdog arse lickers side with Ahmadinejad and his cronies against the people based on your fucking ridiculous 'anti-imperialist' tickets or whatever the fuck it is you peddle - because you have atrocious politics which resort to only seeing conflicts from the eyes of great man, being brought into frankly fucking absurd ideas that any bourgeoisie leader is 'anti-imperialist'.

See the Iranian state shooting people on the streets, 150 dead in a day, then come and tell us your stupid shit. I wish you lived in Iran, see how popular your arguments would be there.

You pro-Ahmadinejadites, or anti-popular struggle pricks are scum, you have nothing to offer us, you cannot be trusted and should fuck off, that includes people like Kassad, the stupid prick.

[REDSOX]

My friend are you drunk or what. I do not support any faction in this farce of a faction fight. I support the working class and its interests. I again ask the question which no one has answered to my sastisfaction. Where are the working class and the oppressed in all this, in the footage i have seen they seemed to be well dressed speak good english and are well educated. Where are the heavy duty boys in all this The Oil wokers steel workers gas workers transport workers farmers power workers etc. These workers dont give a fuck about these factions because they are not in the workers interest to back them.

p.s lay off the insults and conduct your conversation in a civilised manner

[#FF0000]

My friend are you drunk or what. I do not support any faction in this farce of a faction fight. I support the working class and its interests. I again ask the question which no one has answered to my sastisfaction. Where are the working class and the oppressed in all this, in the footage i have seen they seemed to be well dressed speak good english and are well educated. Where are the heavy duty boys in all this The Oil wokers steel workers gas workers transport workers farmers power workers etc. These workers dont give a fuck about these factions because they are not in the workers interest to back them.

p.s lay off the insults and conduct your conversation in a civilised manner

I, uh, seem to recall quite a number of workers going on strike. The Autoworkers, I think.

Also, nobody is supporting Mousavi.

[REDSOX]

The workers at the bus factory went on strike for wait for it 30 minutes 30 fucking minutes. Not good enough. Where are the heavy duty boys ie

The Oil workers
The Chemical workers
The Gas workers
The Transport workers
The Cement workers
The Steel workers
The Teachers
The doctors
The food workers
The Farmers
The poor in general

Where are they? On the fucking sidelines showing the factions the bird thats where

[F9]

HLVS, try keeping a more civil manner.

[Pogue]

My language may not be civil, but can you describe the apologists for the regime like Kassad 'civil'? They are scum, and I will freely use such terms against such pathetic filth.

[Niccolò Rossi]

The events started last week when Iranian electoral authorities had declared Mahmood ahmadinejad current president of the Islamic republic of Iran the victor by 62% of the vote to 33% for Moussavi a former leader under Grand ayatollah khomenei in the 1980's a margin of 11 milion votes. Both men claimed victory moussavi declaring that he had won and ahmadinejad claiming with the backing of the cleric establishment that he had won. Immediately and on queue moussavi's supporters took to the street to protest that the result had been stolen from them although no subsequent evidence as been published to substantiate this.

I wonder why you think it relevant to quote the outcome statistics of the poll and note that there has been no evidence of fraud? Yes, this is all true but this is of little relevance. I think what you are doing, even if not intentionally or explicitly is to weigh in against the protesters by implying that they have no right to be on the streets. The outcome of the election is not the concern of communists. As Lenin said in the Theses on Bourgeois Democracy and the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, adopted by the first congress of the CI: "The most democratic bourgeois republic is no more than a machine for the suppression of the working class by the bourgeoisie, for the suppression of the working people by a handful of capitalists".

Who won is not what is important here for revolutionaries, neither candidate represents the interests of the working class and whether or not the vote was rigged does not give either candidate any more legitimacy or 'right' to take to the streets. The fact still stands - people have taken to the streets.

I realise you might not be saying or intending it this way, but this is an important point and I think your post infers it.


There is also evidence that outside imperialist forces may be intervening covertly to try to either generate more chaos or to influence the mossavi faction to incite protest and rebellion

Where is this evidence?


The result is that there is a power struggle going on in Iran between two factions a liberal bourgeois faction and a Conservative faction which is in power. This is absolutely correct and an important point to note...


whatever is happening these protests are not in the interests of the Iranian working class and poor who quite rightly have overwhelmingly stayed on the sidelines while this power struggle plays out.

... This however we need to be more careful with.


The working class may intervene independently of these factions to demand its interests taking advantage of the situation which is unfolding or worse still from the socialist point of view could be called on by either faction to take on the other resulting in chaos. I for one see nothing progressive in backing one faction against the other and the working class must not be drawn into supporting one or other of the factions ... The working class and poor must mobilise according to their own interests not the clerics

You are once again completely correct. However, what you are doing is drawing the wrong conclusions from the right premises. Yes, the current struggle in Iran began over allegations of vote rigging and in support or Mousavi. Yes, the struggle in Iran appears to still be confined to the electoral issue, the struggle is still on the terrain of the ruling class - swapping one boss for another.

However, the protest movement is not merely composed of the bourgeois factions, the petit-bourgeoisie, students and the Iranian middle classes. The movement is very clearly an inter-classist one which not only draws all of these actors into struggle, but also large swathes the working class.

Given this, the working class is still not acting on the scene as a class. It is still acting as an atomised mass of individuals, locked in behind the Mousavi or Ahmadinejad.

So, what conclusions do revolutions draw from all this, what are the perspectives for the movement, what potential exists and how do revolutionaries relate to it all and intervene?

Not by pooh-poohing the movement and turning a blind eye to the events!

What we do have to stress is that the movement can not progress if it continues on the course it began with. The current movement may still be able to draw the Iranian working class into struggle as a class, especially given the militancy of workers struggles in Iran in the past few years which have been the biggest sin 30 years. We have seen in embryo, this potential to move beyond the bounds of the election and the competing bourgeois factions. We've seen the repression against the protestors ramped up, the radicalising of the slogans, the manourveoing of Mousavi to retain control of the discontent, the rejection of all attempts to smother the movement and embryonic attempts to move beyond the electoral terrain and directly challenge the demands of Mousavi, Ayatollah Khamenei and the entire foundation of the Islamic Republic.



The workers at the bus factory went on strike for wait for it 30 minutes 30 fucking minutes. Not good enough. Where are the heavy duty boys

Workers at Iran Khodro car plant also stopped work on Thursday. Back on Tuesday there was talk of a general strike.

Yes, we are still yet to see the working class come into the struggle as a class and assert itself. I don't think it's appropriate or helpful though to make remarks like 'Not good enough'.

[REDSOX]

Thanks for the feedback and i understand your position though i dont agree with it. I also appreciate rational debate and smear free replies which some people on these boards do not adhere to