Biphobia

[Il Medico]

As a Bisexual, I get a lot of shit. Heterosexual males don't like me because, instead of just competing with them for women, they also think I might be after them. This of course is not true, but it challenges their own view of their sexuality. Most people have homosexual feelings or tendencies (Kinsey Report). However, society has conditioned them such that they never will openly admit to having feeling for the same sex, however minute. So when they see a Bi man, they immediately feel threatened because they can more easily see themselves as that rather than completely homosexual. Now this is kinda to be expected, homophobia is rampant for the same reasons, and people don't in general accept this openness about sexuality. However, what most disturbs me is the hostility from the gay community. Some gays see me and other Bisexuals as "fakes' or 'in denial', about our sexuality, clinging to attraction to women out of homophobia. Their slogan is "Bi now, gay later". Even though I like men, I will never not like women. That's just who I am. Both sides seem to be threatened by Bis not fitting into a nice little category. The Bi phobic feelings in both communities needs to be over come before the LGBT community can really get any real sense of acceptance and equality. I was curious if any other comrades had similar worries or had any solutions to the problem. The only thing I can think of is promoting sexual acceptance with in the slightly Bi majority. If other can come to terms with their own sexuality, then maybe they will be more accepting of others.

Love,
Captain Jack

[Dr Mindbender]

is there really a need to differentiate between 'biphobia' and homophobia?

[Il Medico]

is there really a need to differentiate between 'biphobia' and homophobia?
Yes, because as I said in my post, both heterosexuals and homosexuals have prejudices against Bisexuals. We also get the undeserved reputation of being promiscuous. Which is propagated by both sides. Many homosexuals I have run across seem to think that Bisexuals are just in it for sex, and don't actually have attraction to both sexes. It is demeaning, and I wish less gay men held such beliefs. Heterosexuals also show a similar bias.

[Module]

Both sides seem to be threatened by Bis not fitting into a nice little category.I dont' think that's the source of biphobia at all. This is a bit of a useless post though because I'm not in the mood to actually explain my view on this in great depth.
Biphobia is not seperate from homophobia except on a very superficial level. There is, however, distrust from 'gay' people who probably see a lot of people claiming to be 'bisexual' seemingly just because they can, rather than because it's genuinely an accurate way of describing their sexuality.
I can think of numerous individuals I know who at one point identified as 'bisexual' but are now just 'straight'. Perhaps this is more of an issue for us women, who overwhemlingly get the accusations of being a fake-bisexual to please men - the additional influence of outright misogyny, though of course sexism and homophobia are inextricably linked.
I don't think that people's sexuality can be placed into the 3 boxes of 'gay' 'bisexual' or 'straight'. These labels are not simply the description of a person's sexual preference but also of their particular socio-political situation in regards to sexuality; how they relate to present social norms and structures. If this wasn't the case far fewer non-bisexual people would feel the need to identify as 'bisexual' for no good reason.
So of course there are going to be some people who are sensitive about it; who feel the need to point out those they don't really think are telling the truth!
'Biphobia' from the side of heterosexuals I can't, as I said, separate from homophobia. It comes from the very same place, as far as I can see.

[Module]

I think perhaps this would be better in the 'Queers' group, instead.

[kharacter]

Yes, because as I said in my post, both heterosexuals and homosexuals have prejudices against Bisexuals. We also get the undeserved reputation of being promiscuous. Which is propagated by both sides. Many homosexuals I have run across seem to think that Bisexuals are just in it for sex, and don't actually have attraction to both sexes. It is demeaning, and I wish less gay men held such beliefs. Heterosexuals also show a similar bias.

I'd agree. If you come out as bisexual, the idea that you possess a sexual nature becomes part of your image, while none of the things that indicate you have this sexual orientation suggest a more active sex drive. I'm not a perverted person...in reality, It's hard for me to feel any form of attraction towards men or women. The times I do, however, gender is irrelevant.

I don't know how prevalent 'biphobia' overall is in homosexual people (I'd say it is a fair observation, and considering human nature, it's bound to exist in some cases), but I am familiar with the stereotype you mentioned.

[Il Medico]

I dont' think that's the source of biphobia at all. This is a bit of a useless post though because I'm not in the mood to actually explain my view on this in great depth.
I found your post rather useful, so thank you. However, to say that that has nothing to do with it is a bit dismissive of how the societal want to label 'things' effects personal prejudices. This want is also a reason for prejudices against transsexual and inter sex people. It is because we do not necessarily fit with only one category, so people have a hard time labeling us. Society, as it is right now, does not like things that can't be labeled.


Biphobia is not seperate from homophobia except on a very superficial level. How is the prejudices by gays (some) against bisexuals superficial? Their mistrust and fear is certainly not rooted in homophobia.

There is, however, distrust from 'gay' people who probably see a lot of people claiming to be 'bisexual' seemingly just because they can, rather than because it's genuinely an accurate way of describing their sexuality. I may be repeating myself but.... most people 'DO' have some sexual attraction to both sexes and thus are not strictly homo or heterosexual. (Source: Kinsey Report) Thus anyones attraction to both sexes, however minor, can not be described as 'not genuinely accurate'.


I can think of numerous individuals I know who at one point identified as 'bisexual' but are now just 'straight'. I think this would be expected, most are only have minor attraction to the same sex. They experiment with this (when they consider themselves Bi) and find that they would prefer heterosexual relations (thus consider themselves straight). Just because people don't have sexual relations with both or they stop defining themselves as Bi (like a bi person who hasn't had hetero sex in years would probably consider themselves part of the gay community) doesn't mean the sexual attraction goes away.


Perhaps this is more of an issue for us women, who overwhemlingly get the accusations of being a fake-bisexual to please men - the additional influence of outright misogyny, though of course sexism and homophobia are inextricably linked.They may be accused by gays of being 'fake' because they prefer sex with men. This however, doesn't mean they don't have sexual attraction to women. I think it would be very hard to have sex with some one your not attracted to, even to please someone else. Women also seem on the other hand to get a pass from heterosexual men. This is obviously related to their sex, which as you said ties sexism and homophobia together. Bi men however, suffer more abuse from the hetero side of culture, mainly because of homophobia.


I don't think that people's sexuality can be placed into the 3 boxes of 'gay' 'bisexual' or 'straight'.
I completely agree. As I said in the the LGBT and Homosexuality threads, it is silly to try to put an individual's sexuality in a narrowly defined box. or to sum up my position:
'You people and your categories"- Captain Jack Harkness.


These labels are not simply the description of a person's sexual preference but also of their particular socio-political situation in regards to sexuality; how they relate to present social norms and structures. If this wasn't the case far fewer non-bisexual people would feel the need to identify as 'bisexual' for no good reason. As I said, most people have some attraction to both sexes. So it is really the other way around. Also, even if attraction is minor, accepting your sexuality and condiering your self 'hetero', 'bi', or 'homo' is never for no good reason.


So of course there are going to be some people who are sensitive about it; who feel the need to point out those they don't really think are telling the truth!The point of the homosexuals that don't think Bisexuals have same-sex attraction is that there is *NO* such thing as a Bi person, only gay and straight. Also, I don't see why anyone would pretend to be Bi, it is socially taboo and would be quite detrimental to their standing in heterosexual culture.


'Biphobia' from the side of heterosexuals I can't, as I said, separate from homophobia. It comes from the very same place, as far as I can see.
Well yes, the source of the fear of same-sex relationships is the same, but other biases against Bisexuals are not rooted in homophobia.

[Il Medico]

I think perhaps this would be better in the 'Queers' group, instead.
Why? This is clearly a matter of discrimination against a group of people. And unlike Rosa, I think everyone should be able to give an opinion on this matter.Thank you for yours by the way.;)

[Demogorgon]

is there really a need to differentiate between 'biphobia' and homophobia?
Yes, because there are people who target a lot of bigotry at bisexuals (calling them phonies and the like) quite independently of their attitude to gay people. Regrettably you even get this attitude from some gay people.

[BabylonHoruv]

It is also possible that some of it is due to jealousy. Being Bi greatly increases your options as far as partners are concerned. I think there are a lot of people out there who are open minded about sexuality who wish they were bi, and some of us may resent those who actually are.

[Il Medico]

It is also possible that some of it is due to jealousy. Being Bi greatly increases your options as far as partners are concerned. I think there are a lot of people out there who are open minded about sexuality who wish they were bi, and some of us may resent those who actually are.
Umm....No. Like I said if you have sexual feeling toward the same sex, then you could classify your self as Bi. Bi doesn't mean you have to like both equally. I, for example, have a slight preference for women. I don't think you understand what Bi is so, I'll let you pass on this. However, this is exactly one of the misconceptions about Bisexuals. We don't get anymore sex then anyone else. We have no higher sex drive then hetero or homosexuals. Nor do we have this preference based on the saying "If your Bi, it doubles your chance at getting a date". This is actually quite offensive, and is part of the undeserved reputation of promiscuity. The idea that you state is part of the Biphobia this thread is on. However, even though your conclusion is different from bigots, your reasoning is the same. I hope that my reply has cleared things up for you.

Love,
Captain Jack

[BabylonHoruv]

I didn't say people WERE Bi because they want to be able to have more options. your sexuality is, as far as I can tell, not something you get to decide. I said people WISH they were Bi because they would like to have more options.

Also, sex drive is not the relevent point. I wasn't trying to imply bi people were any sluttier than anyone else. The point is, if you are going to be having the same amount of sex as anyone else, but you have your options increased, you have access to a larger pool of partners to potentially get the really good ones from.

Being Bi doesn't double your chance of getting a date, since the amount of people attracted to the same sex is much smaller thahn the amount attracted to the opposite sex exclusively, however it does increase your chances. I am not saying anyone is bi becuase of that, I am saying some people resent bi people because of that fact.

I also think that to classify someone as bi the preference has to be a little closer to equal. Not purely equal mind you, but if someone will only form romantic relationships with the opposite sex, or with the same sex, but will occasionally engage in senxual behavior with the sex they normally wouldn;t, they aren't really bi, at least not in my mind, they are simply flexible. There has to be the possibility for a romantic relationship with both sexes, even if one is more likely that the other. Otherwise bi becomes a really vast majority, and a kind of meaningless term.

[Il Medico]

I also think that to classify someone as bi the preference has to be a little closer to equal. Not purely equal mind you, but if someone will only form romantic relationships with the opposite sex, or with the same sex, but will occasionally engage in senxual behavior with the sex they normally wouldn;t, they aren't really bi, at least not in my mind, they are simply flexible. There has to be the possibility for a romantic relationship with both sexes, even if one is more likely that the other. Otherwise bi becomes a really vast majority, and a kind of meaningless term.
According to Kinsey, there is 6 levels of sexuality (although I think trying to label people is pointless, it helps people better understand where they fall). 0 & 6 are completely exclusive. People here either have no attraction to the opposite sex, or no attraction to the same sex. 2-5 is considered the Bi spectrum.
1= Mostly heterosexual with only occasional homosexual feelings.
2= You like both sexes but still have a preference for the opposite sex.
3= Means you are equally attracted to both. (this is what most people consider Bi)
4= You like both sexes but still prefer the same sex.
5= You are mostly Homosexual with occasional heterosexual feelings.

I fall in the high 2 range. Most people fall around 1. So in a way, Bisexuality is the vast majority. However, most don't recognize their feelings and people who openly consider themselves Bi or homosexual do. So it is a vast repressed majority.

Here are the numbers:
People that are either a 0 or a 6= 4% of the population.
People who fall in somewhere between 2-5= 96% of the population.

If you want to look up more in-depth stats from the Kinsey report, search on Google, Kinsey scale, or Kinsey report.

Love,
Captain Jack

[RedAnarchist]

Personally, I'm probably a 2. Never having had a sexual relationship, I can only rely on who I seem attracted to. I do agree that most people are in some way bisexual, and that because heterosexuality is seen as the norm, that many people never explore their potential sexuality as much as they could.

[BabylonHoruv]

According to Kinsey, there is 6 levels of sexuality (although I think trying to label people is pointless, it helps people better understand where they fall). 0 & 6 are completely exclusive. People here either have no attraction to the opposite sex, or no attraction to the same sex. 2-5 is considered the Bi spectrum.
1= Mostly heterosexual with only occasional homosexual feelings.
2= You like both sexes but still have a preference for the opposite sex.
3= Means you are equally attracted to both. (this is what most people consider Bi)
4= You like both sexes but still prefer the same sex.
5= You are mostly Homosexual with occasional heterosexual feelings.

I fall in the high 2 range. Most people fall around 1. So in a way, Bisexuality is the vast majority. However, most don't recognize their feelings and people who openly consider themselves Bi or homosexual do. So it is a vast repressed majority.

Here are the numbers:
People that are either a 0 or a 6= 4% of the population.
People who fall in somewhere between 2-5= 96% of the population.

If you want to look up more in-depth stats from the Kinsey report, search on Google, Kinsey scale, or Kinsey report.

I've seen this before, and I'd roughly agree with Kinsey's conclusions here. I myself am basically a 1. However I think that both 0's and 1's should be considered straight, and both 5's and 6's considered gay.

[RedAnarchist]

I've seen this before, and I'd roughly agree with Kinsey's conclusions here. I myself am basically a 1. However I think that both 0's and 1's should be considered straight, and both 5's and 6's considered gay.

If 1's have occasional seuxal thoughts/fantasies/dreams about the same sex, then how can they be considered "straight"? At the very least, shouldn't 1 and 5 be bicurious?

[Il Medico]

I've seen this before, and I'd roughly agree with Kinsey's conclusions here. I myself am basically a 1. However I think that both 0's and 1's should be considered straight, and both 5's and 6's considered gay.
Most 1s consider themselves straight and most 5s consider themselves gay. It is not up to others to decide what someone's sexual identity is. However, 1s&5s are liked of like mixed race people. They usually consider themselves one or the other, however, the reality is that they are both. This is because of the societal influence that you have to be this or that. The more this is broken down, the more accepted Bisexuals will become. Also, more people will probably describe themselves as Bisexual.

[Demogorgon]

If 1's have occasional seuxal thoughts/fantasies/dreams about the same sex, then how can they be considered "straight"? At the very least, shouldn't 1 and 5 be bicurious?
I'm not sure. I would probably be around 5 but I just class myself as "gay" because I don't think my attraction to women is enough for a credible relationship and moreover my emotional attraction is clearly to men.

[BabylonHoruv]

If 1's have occasional seuxal thoughts/fantasies/dreams about the same sex, then how can they be considered "straight"? At the very least, shouldn't 1 and 5 be bicurious?

bicurious is a statement of experience, not of preference. I've always liked the term hetero(or homo)flexible. However if we are going to go with 3 groups, straight, gay, and bi, I think 1's are pretty clearly straight and 5's pretty clearly gay, otherwise bi becomes too broad a term and loses it's useful meaning.

[Il Medico]

bicurious is a statement of experience, not of preference. I've always liked the term hetero(or homo)flexible. However if we are going to go with 3 groups, straight, gay, and bi, I think 1's are pretty clearly straight and 5's pretty clearly gay, otherwise bi becomes too broad a term and loses it's useful meaning.
None of these terms really have useful meanings. The fact is every one is different. People don't fit into 'types' and categories. I think trying to define people as 'gay', 'straight', 'bi', 'bi curious', or whatever is rather silly.

[Il Medico]

This thread is getting a bit off track, so...back to the original topic. What in your opinion are some of the causes for Biphobia in both the hetero and homosexual communities and how can we combat these prejudices?

[Sean]

I think fauxmosexuality has a lot to answer for in making bisexual into nothing more than a chance to tick off "threesome" on whatever scavanger hunt list of experiences people seem to be told have. Pop culture runs as close to pornography as possible and impressionable people are told that acting bi makes you edgy and sexy see Madonna/Britney Katie Perry et al. So I'd say commercial hijacking for the purposes of titilation makes people associate it with fad whorishness and actual bisexuals get caught up in the crossfire of either being perceived as a poser or slutty.

I'm guessing people who adopt kids from other countries feel the same way now that celebrity has given it the kiss of death too.

[The Feral Underclass]

As a gay man, I'm totally into bisexual men. It's a real turn on for some reason.

[Il Medico]

As a gay man, I'm totally into bisexual men. It's a real turn on for some reason.
Thank you, I'm flattered. But, does this mean that for you (and undoubtedly other gay men and maybe straight women) bi sexual men, are for lack of a better term a "fetish'?

[The Feral Underclass]

I don't know whether it can be characterised as a fetish, but even if it were I don't think that means I think your sexuality is any less legitimate.

[Il Medico]

Nor do I. My Sociology class took over there. I was just curious because this type of 'fetish', could be a result of the characterizations of Bisexuals in popular culture. I am just curious to know if your attracted to the image of Bisexuals or the idea that we are Bi?

[Hyacinth]

However, what most disturbs me is the hostility from the gay community. Some gays see me and other Bisexuals as "fakes' or 'in denial', about our sexuality, clinging to attraction to women out of homophobia.
Just to throw this hypothesis out there: part of the hostility might be a consequence of resentment and envy, in that bisexuals might be perceived as threading on the turf, so to speak, of homosexuals, while at the same time being able to integrate themselves into the dominant heterosexual society. As well, there is a tendency for people who form their identities on the basis of group-membership to be hostile toward anything which is not part of, and does not conform to the norms of, their group. Hence, bisexuals, insofar as they do not completely conform to either homonormativity nor heteronormativity, are regarded as outsiders in both groups.

[The Feral Underclass]

Nor do I. My Sociology class took over there. I was just curious because this type of 'fetish', could be a result of the characterizations of Bisexuals in popular culture. I am just curious to know if your attracted to the image of Bisexuals or the idea that we are Bi?

I really don't want to attempt to articulate the recesses of my sexual preferences and fantasies. I think this discussion, indeed any discussion could do without that. :)

[Il Medico]

I really don't want to attempt to articulate the recesses of my sexual preferences and fantasies. I think this discussion, indeed any discussion could do without that. :)
Ha ha. Yeah, it was kinda off topic anyways. I was just thinking that the way culture currently presents Bisexuals could be not only a contributing factor to Biphobia, but also to the sexual mystique and appeal surrounding us.

[Il Medico]

Just to throw this hypothesis out there: part of the hostility might be a consequence of resentment and envy, in that bisexuals might be perceived as threading on the turf, so to speak, of homosexuals, while at the same time being able to integrate themselves into the dominant heterosexual society. As well, there is a tendency for people who form their identities on the basis of group-membership to be hostile toward anything which is not part of, and does not conform to the norms of, their group. Hence, bisexuals, insofar as they do not completely conform to either homonormativity nor heteronormativity, are regarded as outsiders in both groups.
This is a very good point. However, envy might not be the only reason. Many gay men may have feelings for women, they fear these feelings like straight men fear their feelings for men. Bisexuals link the two groups, groups that in many ways want to be separate. To acknowledge Bisexuality as a legitimate form of sexuality, would force people who have feelings not completely in line with their declared sexuality to consider their own feelings and challenge their perceived notions about their own sexuality.

[Hyacinth]

This is a very good point. However, envy might not be the only reason. Many gay men may have feelings for women, they fear these feelings like straight men fear their feelings for men. Bisexuals link the two groups, groups that in many ways want to be separate. To acknowledge Bisexuality as a legitimate form of sexuality, would force people who have feelings not completely in line with their declared sexuality to consider their own feelings and challenge their perceived notions about their own sexuality.
I'm not so sure about this. As was pointed out earlier most people are somewhat bisexual, including many who identity themselves either as homosexual or heterosexual, and who identify as such not because they lack any attraction toward, respectively, members of the opposite or same sex, but rather because that attraction is negligible. One would think that those who identify as homosexual, having already gone against social norms in doing so, would be much more open about, and receptive toward, non-heteronormative expressions of sexuality.

Then again, on reflection, you might be right. Just as those who identify as homosexual face social repercussions from the dominant heternormative society (and hence have something to lose, and fear), so too someone who is part of the homosexual community might face similar repercussions for failing to conform to said community's norms. Which is ironic, one would think that, as an oppressed group vis-a-vis their sexuality, those who identify as homosexual would know better than to discriminate against someone on the basis of sexuality.

[RedAthena1919]

I think most of this all comes down to the way people think about morality, on both sides. I classify myself as "Red-Nieztschean" (a term the old bastard probably wouldn't have liked, but hey, fuck him, he's dead and can't do anything about it) and consider Nietzsche's critique of morality to be quite correct. Old moral-systems need to be swept aside with the State and Capitalism, and dealt with as as much an enemy as the traditional enemies of Revolutionaries.

That full homosexuals discriminate against bisexuals is just a symptom of being caught in an out-dated moral system. Heterosexuals are not a suprise, and can be expected under current systems to behave that way, but I'm mildly disapointed with the gays on this one- surely they, of all people, should recognise the stupidity of sexual discrimination?

[hammer and sickle]

Im not a "biphobe" but I have to admit I am the overly jealous type and my girlfriend is bisexual I have to admit when I hear her talking about women and such I do get jealous. :blushing: (for the record the same happens when I hear her talking about men)

[progressive_lefty]

As a Bisexual, I get a lot of shit. Heterosexual males don't like me because, instead of just competing with them for women, they also think I might be after them. This of course is not true, but it challenges their own view of their sexuality. Most people have homosexual feelings or tendencies (Kinsey Report). However, society has conditioned them such that they never will openly admit to having feeling for the same sex, however minute. So when they see a Bi man, they immediately feel threatened because they can more easily see themselves as that rather than completely homosexual. Now this is kinda to be expected, homophobia is rampant for the same reasons, and people don't in general accept this openness about sexuality. However, what most disturbs me is the hostility from the gay community. Some gays see me and other Bisexuals as "fakes' or 'in denial', about our sexuality, clinging to attraction to women out of homophobia. Their slogan is "Bi now, gay later". Even though I like men, I will never not like women. That's just who I am. Both sides seem to be threatened by Bis not fitting into a nice little category. The Bi phobic feelings in both communities needs to be over come before the LGBT community can really get any real sense of acceptance and equality. I was curious if any other comrades had similar worries or had any solutions to the problem. The only thing I can think of is promoting sexual acceptance with in the slightly Bi majority. If other can come to terms with their own sexuality, then maybe they will be more accepting of others.

Love,
Captain Jack

I remember a comedian making a joke about homophobia. It was like this 'oh my god those gay guys are looking at me, oh my god those gay gays are talking to me, oh my god those gay guys are flirting with me, oh my god maybe i'm gay!'

Homophobia seems to be the first step towards homosexuality, in my mind.

[Il Medico]

I remember a comedian making a joke about homophobia. It was like this 'oh my god those gay guys are looking at me, oh my god those gay gays are talking to me, oh my god those gay guys are flirting with me, oh my god maybe i'm gay!'

Homophobia seems to be the first step towards homosexuality, in my mind.
Homophobia and Biphobia are not the same. Some of the prejudices against Bisexuals are shared with the homosexual community. However, others are not, especially the ones that are from the gay community.

[Aeval]

In my experience bisexuals tend to be tolerated, though not entirely trusted, by some members of the gay community only whilst they are single, 'messing about' or in a same sex relationship. It's once they get into a relationship with a member of the opposite sex that they start getting called a whore and what not. However, also in my experience, those who do this tend to be the more 'scene' people, the types who start *****ing about anyone who doesn't tick all the boxes they feel they should, and these people just enjoy being nasty about others. It's not about fear or jealousy, it's about creating a clique and being a knob to people who aren't fully part of it.

Amongst heterosexuals it seems to just be homophobia, but amplified a bit 'cause I guess it's seen as being an easier thing to 'catch' :lol:

I think the best thing to do is promote the idea that most people barely understand their own sexuality, never mind anyone else's, however, I object to the idea that everyone is on some sort of scale; what about people for whom it genuinely doesn't matter if the other person has a penis or not? 'Cause I'd say there's a difference between liking men and liking women, and liking a person regardless of whether they happen to be a man or a woman. Also, if someone is attracted to either only men, only women or both, then doesn't that mean noone is able to be attracted to people who aren't either? In which case, do those people have their own special sexuality scale? Sorry if that's a bit off topic, but sexuality is too complicated for scales.

[elux]

As a Bisexual, I get a lot of shit. Heterosexual males don't like me because, instead of just competing with them for women, they also think I might be after them. This of course is not true, but it challenges their own view of their sexuality. Most people have homosexual feelings or tendencies (Kinsey Report). However, society has conditioned them such that they never will openly admit to having feeling for the same sex, however minute. So when they see a Bi man, they immediately feel threatened because they can more easily see themselves as that rather than completely homosexual. Now this is kinda to be expected, homophobia is rampant for the same reasons, and people don't in general accept this openness about sexuality. However, what most disturbs me is the hostility from the gay community. Some gays see me and other Bisexuals as "fakes' or 'in denial', about our sexuality, clinging to attraction to women out of homophobia. Their slogan is "Bi now, gay later". Even though I like men, I will never not like women. That's just who I am. Both sides seem to be threatened by Bis not fitting into a nice little category. The Bi phobic feelings in both communities needs to be over come before the LGBT community can really get any real sense of acceptance and equality. I was curious if any other comrades had similar worries or had any solutions to the problem. The only thing I can think of is promoting sexual acceptance with in the slightly Bi majority. If other can come to terms with their own sexuality, then maybe they will be more accepting of others.

Love,
Captain Jack
The same thing happens to me all the time.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

As a gay man, I'm totally into bisexual men. It's a real turn on for some reason.
I've heard that bi men tend to be accepted, and even sought after, within the gay male community, whereas bi women are much more likely to experience biphobia from lesbians. Does anyone have much experience of this?

Just to throw this hypothesis out there: part of the hostility might be a consequence of resentment and envy, in that bisexuals might be perceived as threading on the turf, so to speak, of homosexuals, while at the same time being able to integrate themselves into the dominant heterosexual society.
I think that's a big part of it. If you look at societies with really sharp racial divisions, then mixed-race people who can "pass" for the dominant race probably experience a certain amount of prejudice from both sides as well.

'Cause I'd say there's a difference between liking men and liking women, and liking a person regardless of whether they happen to be a man or a woman.
Yeah, but there's a difference between liking someone as a person, and liking that person's physical characteristics, which are likely to be of the kind associated with a certain gender or sex. You can like anyone regardless of gender, but liking someone isn't necessarily the same thing as wanting to have sex with them.

Also, if someone is attracted to either only men, only women or both, then doesn't that mean noone is able to be attracted to people who aren't either?
Wiki does call andromimetophilia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromimetophilia) a paraphilia. And one of the references for the article is a book called "How to work with sex offenders", which seems a tad harsh.

[Aeval]

Yeah, but there's a difference between liking someone as a person, and liking that person's physical characteristics, which are likely to be of the kind associated with a certain gender or sex. You can like anyone regardless of gender, but liking someone isn't necessarily the same thing as wanting to have sex with them.


by 'liking' i meant physically speaking, I was just being coy :lol:

I meant that some people are actively, sexually attracted to both typically male characteristics and typically female ones, whereas for other people it really doesn't matter if a person looks/is male/female and I think that those are really two different 'types' of bi.

edit: I really should click links before replying - I didn't really mean men/women imitating men/women, rather if someone is literally hermaphrodite or in their head considers themselves to be both then is their girlfriend/boyfriend technically gay/straight/bi? Good old wiki says Pansexual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansexual) is a word, I meant that kind of thing.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

by 'liking' i meant physically speaking, I was just being coy :lol:

I meant that some people are actively, sexually attracted to both typically male characteristics and typically female ones, whereas for other people it really doesn't matter if a person looks/is male/female and I think that those are really two different 'types' of bi.

Fair enough, I kind of find it hard to imagine the mindset you give in your second example so I can't really comment. Surely all physical attraction is based on how someone looks, I don't really get how you could be attracted to someone that way without it mattering how they look.

[Aeval]

Fair enough, I kind of find it hard to imagine the mindset you give in your second example so I can't really comment. Surely all physical attraction is based on how someone looks, I don't really get how you could be attracted to someone that way without it mattering how they look.

All physical attraction? Hardly. I'm not saying it doesn't matter how they look, but seriously, if all physical, that is, sexual attraction was based on looks then I think they'd be a lot more lonely 'fat'/'ugly' people about.
It's the whole thing of, if your girlfriend (now you're going to mess up my analogy with your gender queer polyamory so be hypothetical for a moment :lol:) were to turn around to you before you'd seen them naked and gone, 'hey, you should probably know, I actually have a penis', now, lot's of straight men would, obviously, be a little upset by this, despite the fact that up until that point they thought their girlfriend was awesome, however, if you did happened to be bi then it wouldn't automatically follow that you'd be happy with this situation, because some are attracted to 'men' and 'women' and these attractions are two separate things, whereas for others it's the case that whether or not that person is technically male or female or whatever really doesn't doesn't come into it. 'Bi' implies there are two genders and you are actively attracted to both, what I'm saying is that there are people who will be attracted to someone regardless of their gender, male/female/intersexed/trans/whatever. Of course the attraction is (partially) based on how they look, maybe they have pretty eyes or a nice arse or whatever, but that is not based on gender whereas 'bi' is. If that makes sense :)

[The Ungovernable Farce]

All physical attraction? Hardly. I'm not saying it doesn't matter how they look, but seriously, if all physical, that is, sexual attraction was based on looks then I think they'd be a lot more lonely 'fat'/'ugly' people about.
I dunno. How do you explain the fact that there's not more lonely fat ugly people about? I'd think it's got to be either cos there are people out there who are aesthetically into fat/ugly (which is not implausible, considering how subjective they both are), or cos other unrelated factors take priority over the lack of physical attraction. Or maybe I did just massively overstate that.

It's the whole thing of, if your girlfriend (now you're going to mess up my analogy with your gender queer polyamory so be hypothetical for a moment :lol:) were to turn around to you before you'd seen them naked and gone, 'hey, you should probably know, I actually have a penis', now, lot's of straight men would, obviously, be a little upset by this, despite the fact that up until that point they thought their girlfriend was awesome, however, if you did happened to be bi then it wouldn't automatically follow that you'd be happy with this situation, because some are attracted to 'men' and 'women' and these attractions are two separate things, whereas for others it's the case that whether or not that person is technically male or female or whatever really doesn't doesn't come into it. 'Bi' implies there are two genders and you are actively attracted to both, what I'm saying is that there are people who will be attracted to someone regardless of their gender, male/female/intersexed/trans/whatever. Of course the attraction is (partially) based on how they look, maybe they have pretty eyes or a nice arse or whatever, but that is not based on gender whereas 'bi' is. If that makes sense :)
Hmmm. I think I get that. To an extent. But why can't everyone just be nice and normal like me?
Also, interesting bit of info from a friend of a friend who used to work in a porn shop: apparently the biggest customers of trans/chicks with dicks porn were people who were otherwise just buying completely straight stuff, not people who were buying gay stuff. I'm not quite sure how that relates to biphobia, tho.

[BabylonHoruv]

I know that I am personally straight, primarially, however I have found myself attracted to men, usually ones with feminine characteristics. I was also in a relationship that got fairly serious with a transexual, female to male. A friend of mine is bi, right in the middle equally attracted to both sexes. She said that she could not be attracted to someone who is trans. She is attracted to men and women, but not to both at the same time, in the same person.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Honestly, I believe that we are alll born with the ability to be attracted to males or females, and that because we are raised a certain way/the media tells us/ "it's normal" , we choose to be hetero/homo/bi. Being attracted to someone is based on preference, not ability, because we all have the ability. I wouldn't consider myself bi, but I wouldn't consider myself completely straight either. Kind of like that south park episode where stan's dad has sex with that guy in the hot tub at the party. :lol:

[Manifesto]

Honestly, I believe that we are alll born with the ability to be attracted to males or females, and that because we are raised a certain way/the media tells us/ "it's normal" , we choose to be hetero/homo/bi. Being attracted to someone is based on preference, not ability, because we all have the ability. I wouldn't consider myself bi, but I wouldn't consider myself completely straight either. Kind of like that south park episode where stan's dad has sex with that guy in the hot tub at the party. :lol:
Stan's dad does not have sex with Kyle's dad they were just in the hot tub together and watched each other masturbate.

[-marx-]

As a Bisexual, I get a lot of shit. Heterosexual males don't like me because, instead of just competing with them for women, they also think I might be after them. This of course is not true, but it challenges their own view of their sexuality. Most people have homosexual feelings or tendencies (Kinsey Report). However, society has conditioned them such that they never will openly admit to having feeling for the same sex, however minute. So when they see a Bi man, they immediately feel threatened because they can more easily see themselves as that rather than completely homosexual. Now this is kinda to be expected, homophobia is rampant for the same reasons, and people don't in general accept this openness about sexuality. However, what most disturbs me is the hostility from the gay community. Some gays see me and other Bisexuals as "fakes' or 'in denial', about our sexuality, clinging to attraction to women out of homophobia. Their slogan is "Bi now, gay later". Even though I like men, I will never not like women. That's just who I am. Both sides seem to be threatened by Bis not fitting into a nice little category. The Bi phobic feelings in both communities needs to be over come before the LGBT community can really get any real sense of acceptance and equality. I was curious if any other comrades had similar worries or had any solutions to the problem. The only thing I can think of is promoting sexual acceptance with in the slightly Bi majority. If other can come to terms with their own sexuality, then maybe they will be more accepting of others.

Love,
Captain Jack

I have heard of bisexuals being discriminated against by homosexuals but I have never experienced it myself.
When I meat new guys the question always comes up "are you gay or bi?" and I always reply "well, technically I am bi (because I still find women attractive in a sexual way) but its been so long since I've been with a woman and I mostly prefer guys I'd rather just identify as being gay" and they accept this just fine.
In my personal experience with people in general I have found gay guys the most warm and welcoming human beings I have ever encountered, which is almost the complete opposite to heterosexual guys I've encountered who know I am bi.

I know bi discrimination does exist because I've heard about it quite a bit but I don't think its the norm, or how most gay guys behave towards bisexual guys as I have never encountered it once in my life (31years).
:)

[The Ungovernable Farce]

I have heard of bisexuals being discriminated against by homosexuals but I have never experienced it myself.
When I meat new guys the question always comes up "are you gay or bi?" and I always reply "well, technically I am bi (because I still find women attractive in a sexual way) but its been so long since I've been with a woman and I mostly prefer guys I'd rather just identify as being gay" and they accept this just fine.
In my personal experience with people in general I have found gay guys the most warm and welcoming human beings I have ever encountered, which is almost the complete opposite to heterosexual guys I've encountered who know I am bi.

I know bi discrimination does exist because I've heard about it quite a bit but I don't think its the norm, or how most gay guys behave towards bisexual guys as I have never encountered it once in my life (31years).
:)
Like I said, I've heard that biphobia is much more common among lesbians than gay men...but then I've never been a bisexual woman, so I don't have much first-hand experience of that.

[fiddlesticks]

Biphobia..it makes sense to me that it would exist, though I've never experienced it myself. I found this (http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/bisexualwomen/f/BiphobiaFAQ.htm) , which states nothing but the obvious. People are afraid of us because we are "promiscuous" and will bring stds to the gay community, hahaha.

[Salabra]

I've heard that bi men tend to be accepted, and even sought after, within the gay male community, whereas bi women are much more likely to experience biphobia from lesbians. Does anyone have much experience of this?

Lesbians are usually prejudiced against bi-women because of the LUG (Lesbian-Until-Graduation) phenomenon, where a woman will identify as gay as an experiment, or as a political statement, or, like the detestable Ms Perry and her faumosexual sisters, because it's like :cool: "the newest thing" and makes them money, but, once out (or back) in the "real world," will be scrabbling after "Mr Right" with the best of 'em.

This has caused many a broken heart for gay girls - including yours truly in her younger days - and leaves a sour taste.

[h0m0revolutionary]

Lesbians are usually prejudiced against bi-women because of the LUG (Lesbian-Until-Graduation) phenomenon, where a woman will identify as gay as an experiment, or as a political statement, or, like the detestable Ms Perry and her faumosexual sisters, because it's like :cool: "the newest thing" and makes them money, but, once out (or back) in the "real world," will be scrabbling after "Mr Right" with the best of 'em.

This has caused many a broken heart for gay girls - including yours truly in her younger days - and leaves a sour taste.

Absolutly, i also think this is because of the sexualisation of heterosexuality within the gay community. Bisexuality is a more accepted phenomina, not because gays are particually liberal and accepting more than exclusive heterosexuals, but because how fetishised masculinity and heterosexuality have become.

I think this stems from repressed sexualities - wanting to be accepted as norm, so desireing a normal (reaD: heterosexual_ partner. Or perhaps it's the thrill of wanting someone you can't have.

Either way it's very notable in the gay community, not so much within the lesbian community.

[-marx-]

I never realized it was more common among lesbians/bi girls.....
Could explain why as a bi male I've never experienced it. But it could also be because I prefer guys more than girls that I'm accepted with ease into the gay community.

[Jazzratt]

Lesbians are usually prejudiced against bi-women because of the LUG (Lesbian-Until-Graduation) phenomenon, where a woman will identify as gay as an experiment, or as a political statement, or, like the detestable Ms Perry and her faumosexual sisters, because it's like :cool: "the newest thing" and makes them money, but, once out (or back) in the "real world," will be scrabbling after "Mr Right" with the best of 'em.

This has caused many a broken heart for gay girls - including yours truly in her younger days - and leaves a sour taste.

It's because of things like this and the male reverse (which is pretty damn common) that I feel, at least, sympathy for gay suspicion of bisexuals. I certainly don't mind being criticised by a homosexual nearly as much as I would a heterosexual. Maybe it's just me though.

[marxistcritic]

My sister is bi, but everyone loves her.

[Salabra]

My sister is bi, but everyone loves her.

:rolleyes:

[PetalPinkPeace]

Yeah, I hear those prejudices all the time. At my school, for instance, they're like: "I would never date a bisexual, he/she would be promiscuous and chase the other sex!" I don't mind, though. If I meet a nice guy who turns out to be bisexual, it's OK with me. Even if he leaves me for a man.

[Il Medico]

My sister is bi, but everyone loves her.
I don't follow. How does being a likable person have to do with discrimination against a group of people?:confused:

[Lynx]

Salabra left a rolleyes smiley which suggests marxistcritic was being sarcastic?

[Salabra]

Salabra left a rolleyes smiley which suggests marxistcritic was being sarcastic?

That's the way I took it - blame my strange Aussie sense of humour.

Many apologies if I misread the intent :blushing:

/me removes her great antipodean hoof from her mouth and retreats from the fray.

[zerozerozerominusone]

As a Bisexual, I get a lot of shit. Heterosexual males don't like me because, instead of just competing with them for women, they also think I might be after them. This of course is not true, but it challenges their own view of their sexuality. Most people have homosexual feelings or tendencies (Kinsey Report). However, society has conditioned them such that they never will openly admit to having feeling for the same sex, however minute. So when they see a Bi man, they immediately feel threatened because they can more easily see themselves as that rather than completely homosexual. Now this is kinda to be expected, homophobia is rampant for the same reasons, and people don't in general accept this openness about sexuality. However, what most disturbs me is the hostility from the gay community. Some gays see me and other Bisexuals as "fakes' or 'in denial', about our sexuality, clinging to attraction to women out of homophobia. Their slogan is "Bi now, gay later". Even though I like men, I will never not like women. That's just who I am. Both sides seem to be threatened by Bis not fitting into a nice little category. The Bi phobic feelings in both communities needs to be over come before the LGBT community can really get any real sense of acceptance and equality. I was curious if any other comrades had similar worries or had any solutions to the problem. The only thing I can think of is promoting sexual acceptance with in the slightly Bi majority. If other can come to terms with their own sexuality, then maybe they will be more accepting of others.

Love,
Captain Jack

Well stated. I, for one, don't give damn whom one pokes with as long as the other party/ies are consenting and capable of making the decision for themselves. It is nobody's business but the willing participants' who is doing whom. I like the girls, myself - I've had many queer friends and acquaintances who have accused me of the same denial thing. It may be so in some cases, but certainly not in all, myself being an example. I suspect that much of the accusation stems from buried feelings of people who themselves feel they are doing soemthing "wrong" or otherwise unacceptable and want as many others to "join them" so they feel validated. It is all very neurotic, IMO. I find it far more profitable to just go with the flow and let people be what they choose to be as long as they damage nobody else's autonomy/liberty.

OTOH all people hold the right to their opinions on such matters and if someone dislikes hets or queers or bis, that is their right, no matter what the basis. Live and let live cuts all ways.

[marxistcritic]

Salabra left a rolleyes smiley which suggests marxistcritic was being sarcastic?
No, I wasn't.

[marxistcritic]

I don't follow. How does being a likable person have to do with discrimination against a group of people?:confused:
Well, I was saying that people still like my sister and are open-minded enough to put aside the fact that she is bi.

[Bex]

Well, I was saying that people still like my sister and are open-minded enough to put aside the fact that she is bi.

I have qualms about the term "put aside" the fact that she's bi, as if it is a negative they set aside and everyone loves her anyway.

[marxistcritic]

I have qualms about the term "put aside" the fact that she's bi, as if it is a negative they set aside and everyone loves her anyway.

I always get misunderstood when I post here. My terminology sucks. It would get the message thru if I got rid of the words"but,still,anyway"Sorry.

[Mujer Libre]

Well... we know what you mean- "not judge her negatively" for being bi.

I understand why Bex pointed it out- but yeah, we knew what you meant. :)

[zerozerozerominusone]

I think fauxmosexuality has a lot to answer for in making bisexual into nothing more than a chance to tick off "threesome" on whatever scavanger hunt list of experiences people seem to be told have. Pop culture runs as close to pornography as possible and impressionable people are told that acting bi makes you edgy and sexy see Madonna/Britney Katie Perry et al. So I'd say commercial hijacking for the purposes of titilation makes people associate it with fad whorishness and actual bisexuals get caught up in the crossfire of either being perceived as a poser or slutty.

I'm guessing people who adopt kids from other countries feel the same way now that celebrity has given it the kiss of death too.

Good points. Kind of reminds me of the apparent reasons many people get tattoos. Faddish stupidity.