Is the Word **** sexist?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HC:


I also do not consider the word **** to be sexist, and am not aware that CC policy says otherwise, so please keep that debate out of this forum, if you want it, go do it in discrimination.

As Rachel Green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Green) said:

http://rlv.zcache.com/no_uterus_no_opinion_tshirt-p235757696626405252q5sc_210.jpg

[Il Medico]

HC:



As Rachel Green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Green) said:

http://rlv.zcache.com/no_uterus_no_opinion_tshirt-p235757696626405252q5sc_210.jpg
So men can't have an opinion on issues related to gender equality?
I think the word '****' is clearly sexist. But so is that.

[ls]

By that astounding logic, having a prostate I should believe that the word prick is sexist, funnily enough it doesn't matter to me.

[gorillafuck]

I consider it sexist, yes.

[Madvillainy]

No, it's awesome. It's easily the most flexible and fun word ever. Referring to the word '****' as sexist isn't progressive or politically correct it's just plain wrong.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

CJ:


So men can't have an opinion on issues related to gender equality?
I think the word '****' is clearly sexist. But so is that.

The phrase is slightly more subtle than this (which is probably why you missed the point)
-- sure, you can have an opinion, but when it comes to this abusive word, your opinion does not count.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

IS:


By that astounding logic, having a prostate I should believe that the word prick is sexist, funnily enough it doesn't matter to me.

The point isn't; "NN has a uterus therefore the C word is sexist"; it is, you are man, so your opinion on this issue does not count.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Oliver:


No, it's awesome. It's easily the most flexible and fun word ever. Referring to the word '****' as sexist isn't progressive or politically correct it's just plain wrong.

Once more: no uterus, no opinion.

[ls]

Your argument makes no sense, unless you're being what you consider ironic in a very stupid way.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

IS:


What the fuck are you talking about?

Ah, in your case, no brain no opinion, eh?

[Holden Caulfield]

Oliver:



Once more: no uterus, no opinion.

you're white, you cannot have an opinion on racism.

[Pogue]

It's in no way sexist and only someone who was over analysing it with the sole desire to paint themselves personally as the sole brave defender of women's rights amongst a sea of chauvinists would suggest so. I really think you need to get a grip.

[Il Medico]

CJ:



The phrase is slightly more subtle than this (which is probably why you missed the point)
-- sure, you can have an opinion, but when it comes to this abusive word, your opinion does not count.
So my vote for it being a sexist term that shouldn't be used doesn't matter because I am a man? I am not black either, but it doesn't mean that my opinion that the word 'nigger' is racist doesn't count. Also, '****' while a clearly linked to sexist opinion of women is used in the same way as '*****' (also clearly sexist) is, it applies to and is used against both sexes.

[Pogue]

I still don't see how its sexist to call someone a ****. No one has explained this thus far. Would the same go for calling someone a prick?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HC:


your white, you cannot have an opinion on racism.

As I said:


The phrase is slightly more subtle than this (which is probably why you missed the point)
-- sure, you can have an opinion, but when it comes to this abusive word, your opinion does not count.

So, if my opinion goes against the views of those who are suffering racist abuse, then, no, my opinion would not count.

[F9]

Once more: no uterus, no opinion.

Even that i could agree in the case you of the words, i cant see the "logic" behind this, i basically find it stupid!You cant decide who has opinion or not!Everyone has an opinion on everything, and cutting their opinion its just like a 4 year old kid, not wanting to accept that santa claus dont exist and closes his/her ears not to hear about it!
So stop that, you have no uterus, so your opinion dont counts.This just seems that you avoid argument about something!If you have an opinion thats its strong fine, stand up for it and fight, quit the your opinion dont matters etc meaningless thing.

Fuserg9:star:

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HLVS:


It's in no way sexist and only someone who was over analysing it with the sole desire to paint themselves personally as the sole brave defender of women's rights amongst a sea of chauvinists would suggest so. I really think you need to get a grip

Once more, no uterus, no opinion.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

CJ:


So my vote for it being a sexist term that shouldn't be used doesn't matter because I am a man? I am not black either, but it doesn't mean that my opinion that the word 'nigger' is racist doesn't count. Also, '****' while a clearly linked to sexist opinion of women is used in the same way as '*****' (also clearly sexist) is, it applies to and is used against both sexes.

Already dealt with in my reply to HC.

[Panda Tse Tung]

PS. dick is sexist.

I'm sorry. No dick, no opinion.

[ls]

So what is the magical hidden meaning in this word Rosa, why don't you enlighten us oh mighty elite intellectual vanguard.

[F9]

HLVS:



Once more, no uterus, no opinion.

Thats getting ridiculous, stop quoting the same shit again and again, just dont respond if you dont like it!

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HLVS:

I
still don't see how its sexist to call someone a ****. No one has explained this thus far. Would the same go for calling someone a prick?

If men suffrered from sexist discrimination in society, then the word you mention would be sexist; as they don't, it isn't.

[Pogue]

HLVS:



Once more, no uterus, no opinion.

Great argument there, I think I'm now convinced of your side of the argument.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Mao Chi:


PS. dick is sexist.

I'm sorry. No dick, no opinion

Dealt with in my reply to HLVS.

[Pogue]

HLVS:

I

If men suffrered from sexist discrimination in society, then the word you mention would be sexist; as they don't, it isn't.

Nah, sorry but that argument simply doesn't follow through. You'd still be saying that one should feel bad for having a penis, which is sexist, and so its the same.

[Pogue]

And Rosa, clearly we have opinions, so rather than just completely ignore us because you've realised what an idiot this thread has made you look, try and actually put up a fight. Or should I get my sister on to argue on my behalf?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

F:


Thats getting ridiculous, stop quoting the same shit again and again, just dont respond if you dont like it!

The sexist pigs here keep making the same point; I note however you pick on the one female here, though!

Is it any wonder so few women join RevLeft, or stay for long?

[Panda Tse Tung]

Ok, besides the supposed 'fact' that my opinion doesn't count. I still wonder why ****, used in a context completely unrelated to genders. For example 'your being a ****'. Similarly used words are 'bastard' or 'dick'.
How is it sexist?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

IS:


So what is the magical hidden meaning in this word Rosa, why don't you enlighten us oh mighty intellectual vanguard.

"Rosa" isn't magical; however, I can see in your neronally-challenged state that you might think it was.

[Pogue]

F:



The sexist pigs here keep making the same point; I note however you pick on the one female here, though!

Is it any wonder so few women join RevLeft, or stay for long?

They probably see what your like and decide they don't want to end up like that so leave. Your one of those attention seekers who cries sexism at every turn to try and get a one up on us dam chauvinist males.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Mao etc:


Ok, besides the supposed 'fact' that my opinion doesn't count. I still wonder why ****, used in a context completely unrelated to genders. For example 'your being a ****'. Similarly used words are 'bastard' or 'dick'.
How is it sexist?

Using a word for female genitallia as a term of abuse is sexist. End of story.

[Il Medico]

HLVS:



Once more, no uterus, no opinion.
Rosa, your giving a non argument. Instead of just saying men don't get an opinion, why don't you explain why the term is sexist. And what if a women disagrees with you? Does her opinion not count either? Remember I agree with you, but you can't open a thread to debate whether something is sexist and then just say men don't get an opinion, assuming no women would disagree with you. That is sexist. I really want to know why your not giving a in-depth argument like you usually do? It seems quite out of character for you.

[gorillafuck]

F:

The sexist pigs here keep making the same point; I note however you pick on the one female here, though!

Is it any wonder so few women join RevLeft, or stay for long?
I agree with you that it is a sexist and abusive word, and the the word "dick" is not sexist because men do not face the discrimination that women face. But you're trying to tell people they don't have the right to an opinion which is a ridiculous stance to take. Can a straight person have an opinion on LGBT rights? Obviously a person is more credible when it comes to LGBT rights if they are an LGBT person, but a heterosexual person still is entitled to be able to form their own opinion.

[GracchusBabeuf]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 14 (13 members and 1 guests) H-L-V-S (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=14843)+, Kevis Escobar (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=10550), Rosa Lichtenstein (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=11128), Mao Chi X (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=14347), Idealism (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=21056), Hammer and Pickle (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=18084), Rise As One (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=17428), Fuserg9 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=14921)+, CaptainJack (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=23396)+, chocoche (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=24477), CornetJoyce (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=14246)Wow. Rosa has stirred a hornets nets here.:D I don't have a uterus, so no opinion, sorry.:(

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HLVS:


Great argument there, I think I'm now convinced of your side of the argument.

Thanks!

[Pogue]

Except its clearly not the end of the story because we're still debating it, moron.

[Panda Tse Tung]

Mao etc:



Using a word for female genitallia as a term of abuse is sexist. End of story.
So why can you use male genitalia? Or terms like 'bastard' or 'asshole' (genderfree)?
If the intend is not at all sexist, then why make the exception just because it's a female genitalia? Is that not in itself sexist?

[Dóchas]

Ok, besides the supposed 'fact' that my opinion doesn't count. I still wonder why ****, used in a context completely unrelated to genders. For example 'your being a ****'. Similarly used words are 'bastard' or 'dick'.
How is it sexist?

ye im really not getting why the word "****" is being put above all the other words that we use to put down each other everyday. what makes the word "****" any worse than "*****" or "hoe"?

EDIT: is it sexist saying that because men have a different sexual organ that they have no opinion in a matter of sexism against women?

[scarletghoul]

**** is a great word. I use it all the time. Anyone who thinks it's sexist is a stupid ****.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HLVS (ah, so you weren't convinced!):


Nah, sorry but that argument simply doesn't follow through. You'd still be saying that one should feel bad for having a penis, which is sexist, and so its the same.

Feel bad about something is not the same a systematic oppression and discrimination.

[ls]

IS:
"Rosa" isn't magical; however, I can see in your neronally-challenged state that you might think it was.

Aw your empathy is as brilliant as your argument oh mighty intellectual vanguard.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HLVS:


They probably see what your like and decide they don't want to end up like that so leave. Your one of those attention seekers who cries sexism at every turn to try and get a one up on us dam chauvinist males.

You can comfort yourself with that fantasy, if you like.

[Pogue]

HLVS:



You can comfort yourself with that fantasy, if you like.

Yeh, while I'm doing that maybe you can comfort yourself on the fantasy that someone other than you actually reads your website, perhaps.

[scarletghoul]

this is true.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Socialist:


I don't have a uterus, so no opinion, sorry

Yes, the sexist pigs around here like to use this word. You can see how emotional and irrational they are getting.

And you do have an opinion, as I indicated above. But, it doesn't count if you disagree that this word is sexist.

[F9]

F:



The sexist pigs here keep making the same point; I note however you pick on the one female here, though!

Is it any wonder so few women join RevLeft, or stay for long?

Lol, i find this offensive tbh, but still it made me laugh!I mean wtf.?
You are accusing me of been sexist because i just tell what you do is meaningless and it serves nothing?And because i say what happened and the one was doing it was you(female) that makes me a sexist?Yeah i find your "accusing" or whatever offensive.I pointed out something and you are getting back to me with almost the stupidest thing i ever heard, and the most pointless accussation!So from now on because you are a female, and anyone who is a female i should just stop talking to them, if i criticise them im a sexist, if i point out something about them im a sexist?What is this logic?
Who i would "pick on" Rosa?You were the one i was dissagreeing and belive me, i didnt dissagree with you because you are a female:rolleyes:.You were keep talking that males cant have an opinion(!) on something!Yeah now call me a sexist..:rolleyes:Thats ridiculous!

Fuserg9:star:

[gorillafuck]

HLVS: Male genitalia as abusive words is not sexist because they do not face the same discrimination in society as women.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Mao etc:


So why can you use male genitalia? Or terms like 'bastard' or 'asshole' (genderfree)?
If the intend is not at all sexist, then why make the exception just because it's a female genitalia? Is that not in itself sexist?

Already covered. Learn to read.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

I'm gonna trash this thread, I'm sure we've [just about] had less puerile debates on the word '****' before... I'm sure there are one or two posts in here worthy of some merit, but they're just overshadowed by one liners and a really poor tshirt...

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

F:


Lol, i find this offensive tbh, but still it made me laugh!I mean wtf.?
You are accusing me of been sexist because i just tell what you do is meaningless and it serves nothing?And because i say what happened and the one was doing it was you(female) that makes me a sexist?Yeah i find your "accusing" or whatever offensive.I pointed out something and you are getting back to me with almost the stupidest thing i ever heard, and the most pointless accussation!So from now on because you are a female, and anyone who is a female i should just stop talking to them, if i criticise them im a sexist, if i point out something about them im a sexist?What is this logic?

All I said was that it was interesting that you were picking on the only female here.

Do the maths yourself -- or stop picking on me.

[I find that offensive.]

[BobKKKindle$]

Un-trashed. As puerile as some people in this thread might be, this is a legitimate topic of discussion, as we can see from the behaviour of most of the male members who have posted in this thread thus far. It would make more sense to trash those posts which add nothing to discussion (even though this might incur the wrath of the CC....) instead of trashing the entire thread.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HLVS:


Yeh, while I'm doing that maybe you can comfort yourself on the fantasy that someone other than you actually reads your website, perhaps

Getting desperate, I see.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Kevis:


I'm gonna trash this thread, I'm sure we've [just about] had less puerile debates on the word '****' before... I'm sure there are one or two posts in here worthy of some merit, but they're just overshadowed by one liners and a really poor tshirt...

Ah, trashed by one of the non-uterus owning members of RevLeft.

[Pogue]

HLVS:



Getting desperate, I see.

Funny, seeing as this is coming from someone who refuses to achknowledge her opinions even have an opinion.

I think somewhere in debating fallacies, denying your opponent can even has an opinion has to rank pretty high.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

IS:


Aw your empathy is as brilliant as your argument oh mighty intellectual vanguard.

And your sarcasm is as weak as your intellect appears to be.

[Pogue]

IS:



And your sarcasm is as weak as your intellect appears to be.

Shit, you just achknowledged he has an opinion. If your going to no platform males, at least do it properly.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HLVS:


Funny, seeing as this is coming from someone who refuses to achknowledge her opinions even have an opinion.

Eh?:blink:


I think somewhere in debating fallacies, denying your opponent can even has an opinion has to rank pretty high.

And you need to learn to read; I have already covered this.


Shit, you just achknowledged he has an opinion. If your going to no platform males, at least do it properly.

I refer the honourable sexist pig to my reply above.

[Pogue]

HLVS:



Eh?:blink:



And you need to learn to read; I have already covered this.

This is ridiculous. No uterus, no opinion, and now this shit. You really are pathetic, grow up.

[Pogue]

I refer the honourable sexist pig to my reply above.


Wow, what a geek you truly are.

[Module]

I generally agree with 'not a part of socially disadvantaged minority therefore cannot say with accuracy how certain potentially discriminatory words or behaviours will truly effect those who are a part of socially disadvantaged minority'.
But only to a certain degree. I think it's good to be sensitive about these things and to take into account that you can't be fully aware of the emotional effects of something unless you are in a position where this something can hypothetically have it's potential emotional effect on you.
And people comparing it to the word 'prick' in that sense are just talking crap. Men aren't undermined as people because of their gender. So obviously the words 'prick' and '****' (if **** did have some discriminatory connotations, which I don't think it does) are not going to have equivilent social implications for men and women.
So, as for 'you're white, therefore you can't have an opinion on racism', well, you can't have an opinion about what it feels like to be called racial slurs, no.

But, back to the actual question, is the word **** sexist, as somebody with a uterus ;) (pity my poor mother wouldn't have an opinion after her recent operation!) I say no, it isn't. It doesn't refer to any gendered qualities, it's not used to either men or women in particular, it's meaning doesn't change between genders. It's not sexist, at least not in Australia it isn't. There are some people, such as Rosa, I believe, who claim that it is used in a sexist way. If it is where she lives then where she lives the word is sexist, but it carries none of those connotations in Australia. I don't know if it does where I'm living at the moment because I have made sure not to use the word here, just in case! ;) If there are places in the world where the word is used in a sexist way then obviously in those places I would never dream of using the word.

And, H-L-V-S, stop polluting the boards with your insolent crap, thanks. It's getting really tiring.

[scarletghoul]

More to the point,

where does dialectics come into this?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HLVS:


Wow, what a geek you truly are.

Unfortunatley for me, I modelled myself on you. But, I can never hope to attain your high stahndards in this field.

I bow to the master.


This is ridiculous. No uterus, no opinion, and now this shit. You really are pathetic, grow up.

As I said: you're getting desperate.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Scarlet:


More to the point,

where does dialectics come into this?

Can't you talk about anything else?

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Kevis:



Ah, trashed by one of the non-uterus owning members of RevLeft.

It was also untrashed by someone without a uterus... so what? A uterus isn't a staple of prestige.

Bob; I agree it's a legitimate topic of debate, I just dont see much substance in this thread. Combing through it would've left it with about as much as a new topic on it all together... I don't see the thread going anyway unless Rosa stops engages with anyone in it beyond her mantra of 'no uterus no opinion'

[Pogue]

HLVS:



Unfortunatley for me, I modelled myself on you. But, I can never hope to attain your high stahndards in this field.

I bow to the master.

You modelled yourself on me even though your like, double my age and have been on this forum for years longer than me?

Try and think before you try to insult please.

[scarletghoul]

I generally agree with 'not a part of socially disadvantaged minority therefore cannot say with accuracy how certain potentially discriminatory words or behaviours will truly effect those who are a part of socially disadvantaged minority'.
But only to a certain degree. I think it's good to be sensitive about these things and to take into account that you can't be fully aware of the emotional effects of something unless you are in a position where this something can hypothetically have it's potential emotional effect on you.
And people comparing it to the word 'prick' in that sense are just talking crap. Men aren't undermined as people because of their gender. So obviously the words 'prick' and '****' (if **** did have some discriminatory connotations, which I don't think it does) are not going to have equivilent social implications for men and women.
So, as for 'you're white, therefore you can't have an opinion on racism', well, you can't have an opinion about what it feels like to be called racial slurs, no.

But, back to the actual question, is the word **** sexist, as somebody with a uterus ;) (pity my poor mother wouldn't have an opinion after her recent operation!) I say no, it isn't. It doesn't refer to any gendered qualities, it's not used to either men or women in particular, it's meaning doesn't change between genders. It's not sexist, at least not in Australia it isn't. There are some people, such as Rosa, I believe, who claim that it is used in a sexist way. If it is where she lives then where she lives the word is sexist, but it carries none of those connotations in Australia. I don't know if it does where I'm living at the moment because I have made sure not to use the word here, just in case! ;) If there are places in the world where the word is used in a sexist way then obviously in those places I would never dream of using the word.

And, H-L-V-S, stop polluting the boards with your insolent crap, thanks. It's getting really tiring.

I agree with most of this post actually

[gorillafuck]

This thread has so many shitty posts that it hurts my eyes.

And Rosa, you said you responded to me but I can't find where you responded to what I said.

Edit: H-L-V-S, you especially stop it.

[Pogue]

And, H-L-V-S, stop polluting the boards with your insolent crap, thanks. It's getting really tiring.


Your opinion means nothing to me.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

DES:


I say no, it isn't. It doesn't refer to any gendered qualities, it's not used to either men or women in particular, it's meaning doesn't change between genders. It's not sexist, at least not in Australia it isn't. There are some people, such as Rosa, I believe, who claim that it is used in a sexist way. If it is where she lives then where she lives the word is sexist, but it carries none of those connotations in Australia. I don't know if it does where I'm living at the moment because I have made sure not to use the word here, just in case! If there are places in the world where the word is used in a sexist way then obviously in those places I would never dream of using the word.

Thanks for those comments; and they say us women can't be rational(!) -- looking at some of the 'males' here, you'd think evolution had gone into reverse.

I am sorry I have to disagree with you. It my be that in Australia,the word has been used so much that it has lost many of its connotations, but it still refers to female genitallia (even in Australia).

Now, if using such a word as one of the worst forms of abuse is not sexist, then it is difficult to see what is.

[Pogue]

Thanks for those comments; and they say us women can't be rational(!) -- looking at some of the 'males' here, you'd think evolution had gone into reverse.


Oh, god, the irony.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Kevis:


It was also untrashed by someone without a uterus... so what? A uterus isn't a staple of prestige.

Who has an opinion that countsd, since he agrees this word is sexist.

[Pogue]

I'm going to use this sure fire tactic for winning arguments in the future now:

'I don't have to adress that view because only opinions the same as mine count'

Anyway, so now you've gone back on the 'No uterus, no opinion' thing? Your such a hypocrit, its pathetic, stick to dialetics.

Nice :thumbup1:

[scarletghoul]

wait, so oppinions only count if they are the same as yours?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Hammer:


And Rosa, you said you responded to me but I can't find where you responded to what I said.

What I said was that I had responded to the things you said, not specifically to you. I did this in reply to others (who made the same point).

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Scarlet:


wait, so oppinions only count if they are the same as yours?

Good to see you have given up your fixation on dialectics.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

HLVS:


I'm going to use this sure fire tactic for winning arguments in the future now:

'I don't have to adress that view because only opinions the same as mine count'

Ok.


You modelled yourself on me even though your like, double my age and have been on this forum for years longer than me?

Try and think before you try to insult please.

As I said, I can't hope to compete with the master.

[ls]

This thread has so many shitty posts that it hurts my eyes.

You're one to talk with your thinking that it's ok white people are racially insulted, fuck off wanker.

And Rosa, you've embarrassed yourself enough already, just give it up.

[Pogue]

HLVS:



Ok.

:lol:

Shocking

[scarletghoul]

Scarlet:



Good to see you have given up your fixation on dialectics.
On the contrary, I think this debate is a great example of the dialectic process

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Kevis:
Who has an opinion that countsd, since he agrees this word is sexist.

...again, having a uterus doesn't give you the moral authority to validate peoples opinions. You and your uterus need to get the fuck off your high horse.

It seems to be a pretty legitimate word if you look at the etymology, it's an old Ango-Saxon term (please dont launch in to a vendetta about Anglo-saxon patriarchy). I suppose cunnilingus is also sexist since it's derivative of the word ****? (cunni = ****, lingus= of the mouth, lingual).

The fact that it 'refers to the female genitalia' is hardly emblematic of rampant sexism. Calling someone a pussy (scared) is also sexist (not that I've said that since I was about 13)... Like Des (who has a uterus, QED) said, it's used interchangably by sexes and the meaning doesn't change.

Even Germaine Greer is happy to relegitimise the word. She wrote it in foot high letters on a wall...

[Module]

I'm going to use this sure fire tactic for winning arguments in the future now:

'I don't have to adress that view because only opinions the same as mine count'

Anyway, so now you've gone back on the 'No uterus, no opinion' thing? Your such a hypocrit, its pathetic, stick to dialetics.

Nice :thumbup1:You think saying that only women can have an opinion worth consideration on this subject is saying that only people who agree with Rosa can? Erm... Do you think before you type?
What, you think all women find the word '****' offensive? If women feel like when the word is used to them it undermines them as women then maybe that's a good reason to stop and think for a moment? I know that might be unfamiliar territory for you, but once you get the hang of it we'll all be better off.
If you think that the entire female gender's opinion on a certain word's impact in undermining them as people is equal to yours then you really have no clue.
But yeah, for the record, believe it or not, women are not a homogenous intellectual entity, they're individuals with their own thoughts and opinions on such matters. Another complex idea to get your head around, perhaps.

[gorillafuck]

You're one to talk with your thinking that it's ok white people are racially insulted, fuck off wanker.
No I don't. I think white people being racially insulted is ridiculous.

When did I say that? (if you're referring to the thing I said earlier in this thread, I deleted it because I thought it might be interpreted the way you apparently did. I was demonstrating why comparing calling someone a **** and calling someone a dick isn't comparable in my opinion because men don't face the discrimination that women do, in the same way that racist jokes and jokes about white people aren't comparable since white people do not face the same discrimination as other races)

Edit: And when I said terrible posts I was referring to the personal insults being thrown around in this thread

[Pogue]

You think saying that only women can have an opinion worth consideration on this subject is saying that only people who agree with Rosa can? Erm... Do you think before you type?
What, you think all women find the word '****' offensive? If women feel like when the word is used to them it undermines them as women then maybe that's a good reason to stop and think for a moment? I know that might be unfamiliar territory for you, but once you get the hang of it we'll all be better off.
If you think that the entire female gender's opinion on a certain word's impact in undermining them as people is equal to yours then you really have no clue.

Having struggled through this incoherent nonsense which suggests you don't know how to take your mouse of off the little b in the top left, I'll conclude by telling you that pretty much everyone I know, male or female, has used the word '****' at some point, and I've never met someone who believes it is sexist in the real world, because its not. So I'll continue to use it.

[ArrowLance]

After a few well placed incisions and some needle work, my opinion on the matter now counts!

[Pogue]

After a few well placed incisions and some needle work, my opinion on the matter now counts!

lmao! you win the thread :lol:

[Module]

Having struggled through this incoherent nonsense which suggests you don't know how to take your mouse of off the little b in the top left, I'll conclude by telling you that pretty much everyone I know, male or female, has used the word '****' at some point, and I've never met someone who believes it is sexist in the real world, because its not. So I'll continue to use it.
Great, so I can certainly see how that what I've said you have struggled with. Funny, most people wouldn't. You can re-read it and struggle through it again, or you can just admit what you said was fucking stupid now, as you're probably already perfectly aware, and make things easier.

Kevis: this thread is, presumably, not about using the word '****' to describe a woman's genitalia, but using the word '****' to call somebody an 'arsehole'.
I rarely, if ever, hear the word '****' being used in it's 'original' sense. I don't think anybody in Sydney would feel at all comfortable doing that. :s It just wouldn't happen. So comparing it to 'cunninglingus' to me isn't making any point.

Rosa: I don't think that the word also meaning 'vagina' makes the word 'sexist'. Where it lacks the sexist connotations it doesn't make up for in any direct definition. It's a slang term. If people had a habit of calling people 'vaginas' it might make more sense to suggest it's a sexist word regardless of how people use it, comparable to calling somebody 'gay'. But when you call somebody a '****' you're not calling them a vagina unless you actually say it in a context where you've made it obvious. If anything, you couldn't call a vagina a **** in Australia because that's not how the word is used. It wouldn't feel or sound right to do it.
There are a few ways in which I can think of words being discriminatory but the word '****' just doesn't fulfill any of the criteria for me. Like I said, it doesn't refer to any gendered qualities, it's not used towards women or men in particular, it's just used to refer to people who are being arseholes or idiots or whatever. It just doesn't have any sexist meaning whatsoever and I'm sure there are many people in Australia (amongst the younger generations, that is) who don't even know that **** can be used to mean vagina.
The arguments for and against I don't think can be looked as being too clear cut. I'm certainly having trouble fully explaining my argument. The way the word is used changes from country to country and it's use has changed throughout history and at different rates. You're probably certain that where you live, at least, it's a sexist word. So I can't prove you wrong there, at the end of the day.
I don't think there's anything more to do except agreeing to disagree.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Kevis: this thread is, presumably, not about using the word '****' to describe a woman's genitalia, but using the word '****' to call somebody an 'arsehole'.
I rarely, if ever, hear the word '****' being used in it's 'original' sense. I don't think anybody in Sydney would feel at all comfortable doing that. :s It just wouldn't happen. So comparing it to 'cunninglingus' to me isn't making any point.

I agree, but Rosa's parameters are that it's sexist because the dictionary definition refers to vagina - regardless that the actual connotations in nearly every which use are nothing to do with that, but as you said, to call someone an asshole.

[Module]

I agree, but Rosa's parameters are that it's sexist because the dictionary definition refers to vagina - regardless that the actual connotations in nearly every which use are nothing to do with that, but as you said, to call someone an asshole.But she is saying that the reason that it's sexist is that it means 'vagina', but is also used to mean 'asshole', which implies that vaginas represent something bad.

[scarletghoul]

well yeah, vaginas are a kinda icky private part thing, like arseholes and dicks. thats why its used, not becuase its feminine

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

But she is saying that the reason that it's sexist is that it means 'vagina', but is also used to mean 'asshole', which implies that vaginas represent something bad.

Could say the same for the word asshole... They're not exactly abhorrent.

Snyonyms for genitalia, particular the more caustic ones, regardless of gender have a way of becoming used as general slights against people. I'm sure I don't have to make the point about dick, prick, cock etc, all being used as general pejoratives. It's just not the case that only female genitalia is used in this way. Granted the word **** is a bit more taboo than dick, cock etc, but it's just the evolution of swearing, decades ago fuck was equally tabboo, but over time the words are ameliorated.

[FreeFocus]

It's not sexist. I agree with Kevis' post above. It's just part of the development of language; Steven Pinker had some interesting things to say about curses originating from sexual terms (from both genders - dick, pussy, ****, etc).

EDIT: Sorry Kevis, I originally had "Kevin's post above," lol.

[Il Medico]

So, if my opinion goes against the views of those who are suffering racist abuse, then, no, my opinion would not count.
Ah, but I agreed with you that it is sexist. You are the one who claims your suffering abuse, so by your own logic, my opinion counts. Which contradicts your previous assertion, No Uterus No opinion. Your un-willingness to apply this principle to your self, in the issue of race, only proves that your argument is you own personal sexism against men.

[BabylonHoruv]

HLVS:



Once more, no uterus, no opinion.

Wow, you have to be the most sexist poster i have seen anywhere in a long time. You've appropriated a slogan dealing with personal freedom (the abortion debate) and turned it into a tool of censorship.

Bravo. My hat is off to to you Madame.

[Verix]

HLVS: Male genitalia as abusive words is not sexist because they do not face the same discrimination in society as women.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1d/BoysAreStupid.jpg
if i made a shirt that said, "girls are stupid throw rocks at them" and tryed to sell it shit would rain down on apon me how ever if it says "Boys are stupid throw rocks at them" it is socially acceptable based apon the sexist belive that women are weaker then men and sould be defended while men are supposed to act tough, this is why men are drafted but women are not this is why you hear the phrase "innocent women and children" like in "many innocent women and children died when hiroshima was bombed" you dont here about the "innocent men" who died as much because men are expected to act tough, i think using the word **** is sexist, but using Male genitalia as insults is just as sexists

[Pia Fidelis]

I do not think it is sexist. It is simply a slang term for the vulva. No more or less offensive than any other taboo part of the body. I am surprised this is being debated so heavily.

The word itself lacks the same offensive calibre in other languages. For instance in Dutch "kut" is one of the most versatile swear words and (please correct me if I am wrong) is not regarded as "sexist". Alles kut enter.

[Jazzratt]

Results from the last poll on the word:

I'm woman; I think the word is sexist and should not be used http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar4-r.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../clear.gif 3 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2298)
I'm a woman; I don't think the word is sexist http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar5-l.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar5.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar5-r.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../clear.gif 13 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2298)
Maybe those 13 women were just voting wrong.

Oh god I just noticed there was this shit:


if i made a shirt that said, "girls are stupid throw rocks at them" and tryed to sell it shit would rain down on apon me how ever if it says "Boys are stupid throw rocks at them" it is socially acceptable based apon the sexist belive that women are weaker then men and sould be defended while men are supposed to act tough,

No. "Girls are stupid throw rocks at them" doesn't fly because girls are genuinely disadvantaged by society - adding rocks just seems to be going a bit overboard. Anybody above the age of, say, 11 who still subscribes to the simplistic view of sexism that you have needs to really rethink their position.


this is why men are drafted but women are notHistorically soldiery was a powerful career and came to be viewed as "men's work". This is why for years only men were sent out to die. There is "progress" in that respect these days...


this is why you hear the phrase "innocent women and children" like in "many innocent women and children died when hiroshima was bombed" you dont here about the "innocent men" who died as much because men are expected to act tough,You're thinking about the right things for the wrong reasons. You are outraged at the omission of men when you should be outraged at the conflation of women with children.


i think using the word **** is sexist, but using Male genitalia as insults is just as sexistsI think you're a dick.

[Il Medico]

Results from the last poll on the word:

I'm woman; I think the word is sexist and should not be used http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar4-r.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../clear.gif 3 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2298)
I'm a woman; I don't think the word is sexist http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar5-l.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar5.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/polls/bar5-r.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../clear.gif 13 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2298)
Maybe those 13 women were just voting wrong.
The link is dead.






I think you're a dick.
:laugh:

[Jazzratt]

The link is dead

The thread is here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/word-****-t80964/index.html?t=80964&highlight=****). One of millions of interchangeable discussions on the topic, all of them more tedious than the last.

[9]

Words are words are words are words. The context and the intention are really what determine whether or not a word is discriminatory, not a hollow grouping of letters alone. That said, I realize certain words have certain histories of use in offensive, oppressive contexts... however, I tend to disagree with what I can only think to describe as the more conservative argument which maintains that such words are and ought to remain taboo. Just as an example, if a (male) friend called me a "****" (I am a female) jokingly/affectionately/whatever, it would not bother me at all. Only if a male were to use it in an abusive/misogynistic context would it be offensive. Similarly, if a non-Jew were to call me a kike (I am Jewish) in the first context, I'd take no offense at all. Only if a non-Jew were to use it in an anti-Semitic context would it be offensive. I also find the self-deprecating style of humor which employs the use of such words to be very amusing - not offensive in the least.

[Module]

This thread is actually something for this board to be ashamed of.
Well, that's assuming that this board could care less about the 10 - 20% of it's non-male membership. The amount of "Poor oppressed men!" posts here, knowingly derailing a topic supposedly about a potentially misogynistic slur, are actually, I would say, unprecedented. Congratulations!

[ZeroNowhere]

Well, what the hell. This thread is a trainwreck.
Though it is somewhat amusing that a thread about the word '****' seems to have been marred by a bunch of people being, ehm, ****s.

[Revy]

What about the word *****?

When applied to a man, it seems to take his manhood down a notch, but when applied to a woman , as it is most commonly used, it describes a woman that is basically an asshole or "prick" in her behavior. Am I right on about this dichotomy here?

"He's a *****"
"She's a *****"

^ these both have different inverse meanings relating to submissiveness and aggression^

There are some that have suggested that the word asshole be applied as a gender neutral alternative to "*****". Well, I decided to use Google for research.

When I searched "she's an asshole" (with quotes), I got 585 results.
However, when I searched "he's an asshole" (with quotes), I got 101,000 results.

A VERY stark depiction of how language is formulated around lines of gender.

However, language is not set in stone. What are some effective alternatives to the word "*****" as applied to a rude or mean person who happens to be female?

note: when I substituted "she's/he's" for "she is/he is" I got 3,360 (she) vs. 71,300 (he). Still reinforces this....

[Module]

What about the word *****?

When applied to a man, it seems to take his manhood down a notch, but when applied to a woman , as it is most commonly used, it describes a woman that is basically an asshole or "prick" in her behavior. Am I right on about this dichotomy here?

"He's a *****"
"She's a *****"

^ these both have different inverse meanings relating to submissiveness and aggression^

There are some that have suggested that the word asshole be applied as a gender neutral alternative to "*****". Well, I decided to use Google for research.

When I searched "she's an asshole" (with quotes), I got 585 results.
However, when I searched "he's an asshole" (with quotes), I got 101,000 results.

A VERY stark depiction of how language is formulated around lines of gender.

However, language is not set in stone. What are some effective alternatives to the word "*****" as applied to a rude or mean person who happens to be female?

note: when I substituted "she's/he's" for "she is/he is" I got 3,360 (she) vs. 71,300 (he). Still reinforces this....
Yes, '*****' is a sexist word. I have always thought that and though unfortunately I am in the habit of using it occasionally, if I consciously considered it I would certainly wish that wasn't the case.
The reason why women get called '*****' more than 'arsehole' is because women are far more likely to be insulted as women rather than just as 'people'.
Insults that are gender neutral more often that not become more directed towards men, just because they're not women, rather than because they're men. That's how I've always seen it, anyway.
Whenever men get called a '*****', it's to call them effeminate, submissive, inferior. Whenever women get called a '*****', it's just calling them an asshole, as women. It means something more than just 'asshole', it's the feminine version of it but no point in expanding on that as everybody's going to know what I mean.

[Invader Zim]

It depends on the context.

[9]

Maybe it is ridiculous for me to try to further the genuine discussion at this point when the thread has evidently been accessed and trashed by Mrs. Johnson's rowdy preschool students, but I will attempt to make the point - similar to the point eco-marxist just made - that the popular usage of the certain "feminine"-based insults is not the same as "dick" or "asshole". We have to consider how the words are generally used and what they mean when applied to each sex. Consider the word "*****" (as eco-marxist noted) or, perhaps even a better illustration, the word "pussy". The word "pussy" is used in modern terms, most often, by men toward other men, to degrade masculinity - to blatantly imply a shameful weakness. The word "*****" is often used in a similar context. Because, in this context, these insults imply weakness by invoking gender (suggesting an absence of masculinity) they carry a distinct misogynistic undertone. However, in spite of this undertone, I do not personally find the words offensive unless they are intentionally used in an expression of misogyny or chauvinism. That said, I understand the reason the author of this thread would request only female opinions - not because the opinion of males doesn't matter but because - in the case of discriminatory slurs - the victims of the discrimination (for instance, a thread asking Mexicans about the word "spick", Muslims about the word "towellhead", Jews about the word "kike") often will have a unique firsthand insight that others who haven't been the victim of said slur will not possess. Clearly it could have been done in a more civil way, but for fuck's sake, is it really necessary for so many here to behave like little children?

[ArrowLance]

Maybe it is ridiculous for me to try to further the genuine discussion at this point when the thread has evidently been accessed and trashed by Mrs. Johnson's rowdy preschool students, but I will attempt to make the point - similar to the point eco-marxist just made - that the popular usage of the certain "feminine"-based insults is not the same as "dick" or "asshole". We have to consider how the words are generally used and what they mean when applied to each sex. Consider the word "*****" (as eco-marxist noted) or, perhaps even a better illustration, the word "pussy". The word "pussy" is used in modern terms, most often, by men toward other men, to degrade masculinity - to blatantly imply a shameful weakness. The word "*****" is often used in a similar context. Because, in this context, these insults imply weakness by invoking gender (suggesting an absence of masculinity) they carry a distinct misogynistic undertone. However, in spite of this undertone, I do not personally find the words offensive unless they are intentionally used in an expression of misogyny or chauvinism. That said, I understand the reason the author of this thread would request only female opinions - not because the opinion of males doesn't matter but because - in the case of discriminatory slurs - the victims of the discrimination (for instance, a thread asking Mexicans about the word "spick", Muslims about the word "towellhead", Jews about the word "kike") often will have a unique firsthand insight that others who haven't been the victim of said slur will not possess. Clearly it could have been done in a more civil way, but for fuck's sake, is it really necessary for so many here to behave like little children?

I dunno, is it really necessary to be a condescending ****?

[9]

I dunno, is it really necessary to be a condescending ****?
Gai tren zich, comrade, you're behaving like an infant.

[Module]

I dunno, is it really necessary to be a condescending ****?Don't act like a pathetic douchebag and then you can expect not to be called one.

[Killfacer]

No.

[Invader Zim]

HC:



As Rachel Green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Green) said:

http://rlv.zcache.com/no_uterus_no_opinion_tshirt-p235757696626405252q5sc_210.jpg

Does this, therefore mean that women who have a hysterectomy cease to have a valid opinion?

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

EDIT: Sorry Kevis, I originally had "Kevin's post above," lol.

Kevin's my real name, to be fair I find it kind of endearing. No beef ;)

[Il Medico]

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is going nowhere? There hasn't really been any discussion on the topic.
For two reasons:
1. Rosa won't let anyone who isn't a women have an opinion on this.
2. The people who disagree that it is sexist just throw insults.
I think this particular thread should be closed. The topic deserves a thread that does not just consist of "I can't hear you" and "Your an ass" arguments.
Would an Admin close it please.

[redguard2009]

Only if dick is sexist, too.

What about the word asshole? That's pretty androgynous isn't it? Everybody's got assholes.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

s a thread that does not just consist of "I can't hear you" and "Your an ass" arguments.
Would an Admin close it please.

I did trash it, but Bob untrashed it...

[BabylonHoruv]

Don't act like a pathetic douchebag and then you can expect not to be called one.

How about douchebag. Is that a sexist term? Considering a douchebag is an implement used exclusively by women.

Interesting that tampon hasn't been adopted as an insult, I may start using that. pad has, as either ****rag or twatwaffle.

[BabylonHoruv]

Does this, therefore mean that women who have a hysterectomy cease to have a valid opinion?

According to Rosa it seems to. I believe she is a Cirinist. Matriarchy FTW

[mel]

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is going nowhere? There hasn't really been any discussion on the topic.
For two reasons:
1. Rosa won't let anyone who isn't a women have an opinion on this.
2. The people who disagree that it is sexist just throw insults.
I think this particular thread should be closed. The topic deserves a thread that does not just consist of "I can't hear you" and "Your an ass" arguments.
Would an Admin close it please.

While I agree that this conversation has gone nowhere, I think it's a topic worthy of discussion and I'd like to try to get past one of the main stumbling blocks to progress in this thread.

Rosa's motto here, "No uterus, no opinion" (which in order to avoid any more pointless diversions as to women who have had theirs removed, etc should be rephrased roughly as "If you are not a woman, your opinion about whether or not something is sexist and hurtful towards women does not count") was at least internally consistent.

However, later in the thread Rosa seemed to add a little addition to this: Your opinion counts as a male if your opinion is in agreement with the opinion of a woman (whose opinion counts). However, this means that either a man's opinion always counts (because women fall on both sides of this issue) or she should go back on this and maintain that a man's opinion never counts.

Her only other alternative would be to say that women's opinions only count (and therefore men's opinions only count) if women believe that the word is sexist, which would be a form of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, where "No true woman" would disagree that the word was sexist.

Something tells me that men's opinions on issues which they can't possibly experience probably don't count, but I don't think that means that they have no place in the discourse. A man can still provide arguments and attempt to argue logically for his position, but ultimately if a woman says that she's offended by the term, that should trump the opinion of any man on the issue, period, because she's in the unique position to feel oppressed by the discourse of her society on the issue of sex. Can we please have a serious discussion now?

[Mujer Libre]

I'm closing this thread, since it's degenerated into a flame-fest and pointless bickering.