The Socialist Party of Great Britain

[JammyDodger]

Any members/former members on the site?

I just want to chat, im looking into what party to join in the UK and this Party seems to grab my interest.

Want to join a party soon, just working out who is who.
Any thoughts?.

Im Marxist-Leninist but not anal about it as I reckon most communist ways are better than what we have now so which ever wins the day we will be trading up.

Im keen to be an avid activist, just looking for the right team to bat for.

Any help /insight most welcome and much appreciated.:)

[bellyscratch]

I know there are a couple of sympathisers on here, but not sure about members.

They do generally seem to get a bit of stick from other sections of the left for things like making anyone who wants to join pass a theory test and standing around preaching instead of engaging with people. They also seem relatively small and have the nickname 'Small Party of Good Boys'.

I'm a bit unsure of them but like that they don't have any official 'leaders'.

I don't have a massive knowledge on them and I'm sure other people can elaborate on them for you.

[JammyDodger]

I know there are a couple of sympathisers on here, but not sure about members.

They do generally seem to get a bit of stick from other sections of the left for things like making anyone who wants to join pass a theory test and standing around preaching instead of engaging with people. They also seem relatively small and have the nickname 'Small Party of Good Boys'.

I'm a bit unsure of them but like that they don't have any official 'leaders'.

I don't have a massive knowledge on them and I'm sure other people can elaborate on them for you.


Whats the best options living in the UK in your opinion?
Who has there act together best at the moment?

Cheers for the help so far.

[JammyDodger]

Thy're anti-Leninist.

Ouch!, good catch.
The site dont tell a great deal.:)

[Q]

Whats the best options living in the UK in your opinion?
Who has there act together best at the moment?
While the SPGB might be older, the Socialist Party of England and Wales (http://socialistparty.org.uk/) is larger, more active, have a larger international network and is Trotskyist.

There's probably a branch in your area, you might want to contact them :)

[ZeroNowhere]

Whats the best options living in the UK in your opinion?
Who has there act together best at the moment?The SPGB always has their act together best.
Ehm, anyways, I would probably fall under 'sympathizers', though this guy (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=13232) probably knows a lot more about them than me.


The site dont tell a great deal.Um, generally having an essay called 'Why Russia Was Not Socialist' should make things clear enough.

[The Feral Underclass]

An AF member was once expelled from SPGB for starting a faction. Years ago though.

[JammyDodger]

The SPGB always has their act together best.
Ehm, anyways, I would probably fall under 'sympathizers', though this guy probably knows a lot more about them than me.

Um, generally having an essay called 'Why Russia Was Not Socialist' should make things clear enough.

My poor eyes do bullet points computer wise, paper works brilliant, Ive sent off for there info, a screen kills my eyes too fast, dont know why, thanks for the the link though mate:)

[scarletghoul]

CPB is the largest marxist-leninist party in the UK, and they seem to be the best. Theyve got good links with trade unions, publish the Morning Star (Uk's only daily socialist newspaper), around 1000 members. they also have a youth thing YCL
check em out

[bellyscratch]

Whats the best options living in the UK in your opinion?
Who has there act together best at the moment?

Cheers for the help so far.

If you're a Marxist-Leninist then probably the best bet for you would be Communist Party of Britain, as mentioned by Scarletghoul.

Personally I'm not a fan as I'm not too fond of the Marxist-Leninist ideology, and am not in any party at the moment, although I used to be in SWP. There isn't any particular party that I want to join at the moment, but I work alongside all of the ones in my area.

[JammyDodger]

If you're a Marxist-Leninist then probably the best bet for you would be Communist Party of Britain, as mentioned by Scarletghoul.

Personally I'm not a fan as I'm not too fond of the Marxist-Leninist ideology, and am not in any party at the moment, although I used to be in SWP. There isn't any particular party that I want to join at the moment, but I work alongside all of the ones in my area.

Cheers for the advice, im not strict on ideology i reckon its just a debate that could rage on until the sun is cold, just going to have to take a the plunge I reckon, an extra pair of feet on the ground.
Some voices sing baritone or base etc but the bigger the collective choir the better.

[bellyscratch]

Cheers for the advice, im not strict on ideology i reckon its just a debate that could rage on until the sun is cold, just going to have to take a the plunge I reckon, an extra pair of feet on the ground.
Some voices sing baritone or base etc but the bigger the collective choir the better.

Just get on contact with a few different parties then and see if they have any contacts in your area. If they do then meet up and have a chat with them and see what campaigns you can get involved in. You're most likely to have someone from Socialist Workers Party, Socialist Party of England and Wales or Communist Party of Britain active somewhere near you as I think they're the biggest left wing parties in the country. It might be worth a try for other groups like Socialist Resistance, Alliance for Workers Liberty, Workers Power, Socialist Party of Great Britain, Revolutionary Communist Group and all the other small parties too. I'd try just go to any meetings you can and get find out about any local campaigns you might be able to get involved in.

[teenagebricks]

SPGB are a very good org in my opinion, I've been toying with the idea of joining for quite some time now. They put on some very good (albeit small) events and meetings and despite being small in size they have a good reputation due to their history and consistency. That being said, they are very anti Leninist, but if you agree with SPGB's principles you may like to rethink your position and consider joining. I like the fact that they have their members pass a test, they're only looking for members who can actually contribute to the cause, as opposed to having members for the sake of having members. Of SWP's and CPB's four figure memberships, how many of those members are actually active? Not many that I know of, half of them are probably just students who want to feel like they're a part of something. Pretty much all of SPGB's membership (around 400, I think) is at least fairly active. If you email your local branch I'm sure they would be happy to have you along to a meeting to talk things over.

[Hit The North]

If you want to be an avid activist, I don't think the SPGB will be much use to you as they don't do anything.

As others have pointed out, the most active Marxist groups are the Trotskyist groups such as the SWP and the SPEW.

[Pogue]

The CPB are openly social democrats.

[ZeroNowhere]

In order to be Fair and Balanced, and teach the debate, I shall provide you an alternative viewpoint which may be relevant:
"The Communist Party has NO dealings with murderers, liars, renegades, or assassins. The SPGB, which associates itself with followers of Trotsky, the friend of Hess, has always followed a policy which would mean disaster for the British working class. They have consistently poured vile slanders on Joseph Stalin and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, told filthy lies about the Red Army, the Soviet people and its leaders, gloated over the assassination of Kirov and other Soviet leaders, applauded the wrecking activities of Trotskyist saboteurs in the Soviet Union. They have worked to split the British working class, and are in short agents of Fascism in Great Britain. The CPGB refuses with disgust to deal with such renegades. We treat them as vipers, to be destroyed.”
-Letter from Secretary of the West Ham branch of the Communist Party, 23 February 1943, reproduced in Socialist Standard, May 1943.

At best, it provides a helpful warning about not becoming a fascist agent. At least, it's just plain hilarious. The ICC, valiant opponents of the "rigid sectarianism" of the SPGB, give a similar warning: "In the coming revolutionary confrontations between the working class and the bourgeoisie the role of the SPGB will be indistinguishable from that of any of the other bourgeois parties."


Thy're anti-Leninist.
Attlee “The Russian debacle is rather appalling but quite explicable. Lenin and Trotsky appear to me to be of the SPGB type or the wilder types of the SDP.”
So, um, something.

[JammyDodger]

The minefield thickens

[The Idler]

If you want an organisation which is


extremely democratic
calls for a society of free access
calls for the abolition of money

then most others will be ruled out - only the SPGB will do.

[JammyDodger]

If you want an organisation which is


extremely democratic
calls for a society of free access
calls for the abolition of money
then most others will be ruled out - only the SPGB will do.


Does anyone know what this entry test with regard to SPGB consists of.

Im pretty clued up on Marxist theory but I cant say ive ever done very well with exams of any sort.

I spent the last two days solid looking at everything I can find here in Britain, I reckon its probably going to be CPB, give it a try and see how I can help out.

[Pogue]

I say again, the CPB are social democrats.

[JammyDodger]

I say again, the CPB are social democrats.

Can you expand on that?

[Q]

Why chosing for the CPB? They have strong Stalinist roots, their programme is even called Britains road to socialism, which is a reflection of the "theory" of socialism-in-one-country. Within the No2EU platform they defended nationalist arguments. I see no reason why a genuine communist would want to go near that sad bunch.

[JammyDodger]

Why chosing for the CPB? They have strong Stalinist roots, their programme is even called Britains road to socialism, which is a reflection of the "theory" of socialism-in-one-country. Within the No2EU platform they defended nationalist arguments. I see no reason why a genuine communist would want to go near that sad bunch.

Well im at a loss:confused::)

I wish these parties were more like Ronseal.

[scarletghoul]

wait, theyre stalinist social democrats?

[Q]

wait, theyre stalinist social democrats?
Reformism one way or the other.

[Socialist Scum]

I'm in SPEW. Their most Westward member.

[Pogue]

Can you expand on that?

They say a revolution is not needed in the UK and communism can be brought about through elections.

[JammyDodger]

I'm in SPEW. Their most Westward member.

I know its a small matter but I have to ask it (down trodden mass at the moment) what are the membership fees, I may have missed it but I couldnt see it on the SPEW site.

If its based on ability to pay, I work but am on £6:50 an hour, with a mortgage.
Im not being tight, just have to be sensible is all.

Ball park monthly amount will do nice:)

[The Idler]

Have a look at the Brit Left Series on the Tragic Life Stories blog (http://tragiclifestories.blogspot.com/search/label/brit%20left%20series).

[ZeroNowhere]

Have a look at the Brit Left Series on the Tragic Life Stories blog (http://tragiclifestories.blogspot.com/search/label/brit%20left%20series).While I differ there in that I use 'sectarian' as a compliment more often than an insult, this story, "A great piece of left apocrypha runs thus: at some point in the 70s or something, the SPGB looked at their membership returns and were appalled. They decided that there could not possible be that many good socialists in Britain,and promptly expelled a load of people," was, when I heard it, applied to the SLP(UK) (the De Leonite one). In that, it was that one of their members had gotten too many votes and was expelled for opportunism. So, in all likelihood, it's false, as well as silly.

[Manxboz]

I am a member of the Socialist Party (in the UK) they have been very good to me, even though i am a member not in the UK but on the Isle of Mann
You can check it out yourself by going on the Website but i can't post the link as i haven't got 25 posts, but type in British Socialist party on google and go to the 3rd one down.

Hope this helps Comrade

[Socialist Scum]

I know its a small matter but I have to ask it (down trodden mass at the moment) what are the membership fees, I may have missed it but I couldnt see it on the SPEW site.

If its based on ability to pay, I work but am on £6:50 an hour, with a mortgage.
Im not being tight, just have to be sensible is all.

Ball park monthly amount will do nice:)

When joining a member will contact you. There is no fixed fee, you pay how much for how you earn. You earn lots you pay more, you earn little you pay little. Seems fair.

I earn nothing but I give money when I attend meetings, being under 18.

They also pay all travel costs. (If you paid £40 to get there by train, they will pay you the £40 on arrival)

[JammyDodger]

When joining a member will contact you. There is no fixed fee, you pay how much for how you earn. You earn lots you pay more, you earn little you pay little. Seems fair.

I earn nothing but I give money when I attend meetings, being under 18.

They also pay all travel costs. (If you paid £40 to get there by train, they will pay you the £40 on arrival)


Cheers mate, had to ask as depending from group to group party to party it fluctuates like I dont know what.

I cant say fairer than the above, exactly how it should be imho.
From each according to his ability to each according to his need as they say.

I will flip sites and fill out the form this second come to think of it, in for a penny and all that.

Cheers for all the help and who knows we might be at the same get together some day and I can front you a pint to say thanks properly.
(after you turn 18 ofcourse, making me feel old:laugh:)

[Q]

I am a member of the Socialist Party (in the UK) they have been very good to me, even though i am a member not in the UK but on the Isle of Mann
You can check it out yourself by going on the Website but i can't post the link as i haven't got 25 posts, but type in British Socialist party on google and go to the 3rd one down.

Hope this helps Comrade
Not to be nitpicking but there is a Socialist Party of Great Britain (http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/) and a Socialist Party of England & Wales (http://socialistparty.org.uk/), to which one are you referring? As far as I know neither the "SP (UK)" or a "British SP" (as shown in your organisation tag), exist.

[ZeroNowhere]

Not to be nitpicking but there is a Socialist Party of Great Britain (http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/) and a Socialist Party of England & Wales (http://socialistparty.org.uk/), to which one are you referring? As far as I know neither the "SP (UK)" or a "British SP" (as shown in your organisation tag).Spew, I believe. It fits his description.

[JammyDodger]

Spew, I believe. It fits his description.


Judean peoples popular front or the peoples popular front of Judea.:confused:

Python saw things very clearly.(gods:thumbup:)

I dont want to be judging but there is clearly a problem in the naming of all these groups and parties and to my feeble brain far too many.

I know there are various thought schools on the subject but unity needs to be a priority where possible I reckon.
Ive gone way off topic there, but even with the good council of your good selves and the great collection of links via google its been a real trial working out what each group exactly stands for.

When trying to get popular support of the working classes and other exploited areas of society this has got to be a handicap.

[BobKKKindle$]

Judean peoples popular front or the peoples popular front of Judea.:confused:

Python saw things very clearly.(gods:thumbup:)

I dont want to be judging but there is clearly a problem in the naming of all these groups and parties and to my feeble brain far too many.

I know there are various thought schools on the subject but unity needs to be a priority where possible I reckon.
Ive gone way off topic there, but even with the good council of your good selves and the great collection of links via google its been a real trial working out what each group exactly stands for.

When trying to get popular support of the working classes and other exploited areas of society this has got to be a handicap.

I don't think you can actually tell much about different organizations and how close they are to your own politics just by looking at what the say about themselves on their respective websites. I think it's better if you find out which organizations are active in your area and then gain some experience of what they're doing and what their members are like so you can judge for yourself. Truth be told, the only two organizations that do much in the UK are the Socialist Party of England and Wales (otherwise known as the Socialist Party, or SPEW) and the Socialist Workers Party.

[communard resolution]

Whats the best options living in the UK in your opinion?
Who has there act together best at the moment?

Cheers for the help so far.

The most authentically communist party in Great Britain is currently the CPGB.
They allow factions, are internally much more democratic than certain larger groups, encourage critical and self-critical analysis, and, despite being anti-Stalinist, do not commit the grave error of attributing the degeneration of the USSR into bureaucratic despotism exclusively to Stalin's 'evil' personality. I.e. they are not uncritical of Trotsky either, despite recognising his contribution as a therorist and revolutionary.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Cheers mate, had to ask as depending from group to group party to party it fluctuates like I dont know what.

I cant say fairer than the above, exactly how it should be imho.
From each according to his ability to each according to his need as they say.

I will flip sites and fill out the form this second come to think of it, in for a penny and all that.

Cheers for all the help and who knows we might be at the same get together some day and I can front you a pint to say thanks properly.
(after you turn 18 ofcourse, making me feel old:laugh:)
Basically I'd say you should just be an anarchist, obv. ;) Beyond that...if you're looking for size, SWP and SPEW are probably the biggest and most active groups, but they have severe problems such as a lack of any real internal democracy and a tendency to form really embarrassing alliances. CPB are smaller, less active, more reformist, and supported the Soviet dictatorships. SPGB are quite principled and decent theoretically, but they're really small, don't do much, and have a weird attachment to electoralism. Hope that helps.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The most authentically communist party in Great Britain is currently the CPGB.
They allow factions, are internally much more democratic than certain larger groups, encourage critical and self-critical analysis, and, despite being anti-Stalinist, do not commit the grave error of attributing the degeneration of the USSR into bureaucratic despotism exclusively to Stalin's 'evil' personality. I.e. they are not uncritical of Trotsky either, despite recognising his contribution as a theorist and revolutionary.

"Centrist! Kautskyite!" ;) :D

The CPGB recognizes Trotsky's contribution only on the latter. On the former (re. programme), he was a broad economist like Krichevskii (criticized in WITBD) and a semi-Bakuninite.

[Revy]

The SPGB is part of the World Socialist Movement.
However, it seems to be different in a few ways than its other counterparts in the WSM.


for example, the World Socialist Party of the United States, and the Socialist Party of Canada, are mostly inactive, with probably only a few remaining members at the most, and I have the impression they do not believe in demonstrations or taking part in elections, which they deem as "reformism".

[robbo203]

The SPGB is part of the World Socialist Movement.
However, it seems to be different in a few ways than its other counterparts in the WSM.


for example, the World Socialist Party of the United States, and the Socialist Party of Canada, are mostly inactive, with probably only a few remaining members at the most, and I have the impression they do not believe in demonstrations or taking part in elections, which they deem as "reformism".

Actually my impression is the opposite. The WSPUS used to be virtually moribund but in the past few years has made a bit of a comeback. Here is their website http://wspus.org/about-us/. I think you are wrong about elections. Participating in elections per se is not reformist. Its the programme on offer that makes you a reformist

[robbo203]

While the SPGB might be older, the Socialist Party of England and Wales (http://socialistparty.org.uk/) is larger, more active, have a larger international network and is Trotskyist.

There's probably a branch in your area, you might want to contact them :)


I think the difference is that whereas the Socialist Party of England and Wales is a basically a reformist and pro-state capitalist outfit, the SPGB is a revolutionary organisation in the proper sense of the term in wanting a fundamental change in society and in advocating the abolition of the wages system

[Revy]

Well my comments weren't meant to be sectarian and if the WSPUS has many more members than I imagined I apologize. A few years back, I distinctly remember their position, so it must have changed. Because it seemed like the World Socialist Movement itself rejected not only taking part in elections but demonstrations, protests, and such. But if that's changed, well, you know, then it's not relevant anymore to bring it up, I guess.

[robbo203]

Well my comments weren't meant to be sectarian and if the WSPUS has many more members than I imagined I apologize. A few years back, I distinctly remember their position, so it must have changed. Because it seemed like the World Socialist Movement itself rejected not only taking part in elections but demonstrations, protests, and such. But if that's changed, well, you know, then it's not relevant anymore to bring it up, I guess.


I dont think it has a great many more members. Just that it has undergone a bit of a revival. Thats my impression at any rate. I might be wrong and maybe a comrade in WSPUS can put me right on this.

ON elections, I dont think it was ever the case that the WSM rejected participation in elections per se. Afterall it advocates the democratic capture of the state (and its subsequent dismantling) by the socialist majority. What I suspect you might have heard is that it would be inappropriate to stand for elections at this point given the limited resources and few members. In other words it is not a rejection of electoralism as a matter of principle but a strategic consideration only

[Dave B]

I am a member of the SPGB/WSM and have made several posts mostly under theory.

I think we have been described as ‘virulently’ anti Leninist, which is something I myself would be quite happy with.

We have a web site at below;


http://www.worldsocialism.org/index.php (http://www.worldsocialism.org/index.php)

And an open forum at below;


http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WSM_Forum/ (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WSM_Forum/)

Where most members of the forum are not members of the SPGB and or the WSM which is world ‘umbrella organisation’ or whatever.

[Q]

I think the difference is that whereas the Socialist Party of England and Wales is a basically a reformist and pro-state capitalist outfit, the SPGB is a revolutionary organisation in the proper sense of the term in wanting a fundamental change in society and in advocating the abolition of the wages system
Care to give arguments for the claim of the SPEW being reformist and pro-state capitalist?

[Die Neue Zeit]

To the ultra-propagandist WSM, even the radical yet social-democratic Paris Communards were reformists! :lol:

[robbo203]

Care to give arguments for the claim of the SPEW being reformist and pro-state capitalist?


Yes indeed. Check out the website of SPEW. Here's something chosen at random - there are numerous other examples - which clearly indicate SPEW is a reformist state capitalist outfit.

"A socialist economy would have to be a planned economy. This would involve bringing all of the big corporations, which control around 80% of the British economy, into democratic public ownership, under working-class control.
Of course, it would not mean bringing small businesses, such as the local shops, many of which are forced out of business by the multinationals, into public ownership. Nor would it mean, as opponents of socialism claim, taking away personal ‘private property’. On the contrary, socialists are in favour of everyone having the right to a decent home and the other conveniences of modern life.
A genuine socialist government would not be dictatorial. On the contrary, it would extend and deepen democracy enormously. " Socialism in the 21st century

There is no hint of an understanding here that socialism is a society which does away with commodity produiction, the market , wage labour and the state (there is no such thing as a "socialist government"). What SPEW advocates instead is state run capitalism - so called public ownership. It envisages small business continuing on much the same basis as now but bringing big business under the control of the governent. It talks about there being working class control of industry which of course is a contradiction in terms but the pertinent point here is that it sees socialism as being a class based system which is to completely misunderstand the nature of socialism.

I am sure there are many well meaning members of SPEW. Reformists are often well meaning. But at the end of the day all SPEW wants to do is take on the running of capitalism. Though there is not the remotest possibility of that happening, if it did what would happen is that capitalism would change SPEW to suit is own needs, not the other way round. Look at NU Labour which is now some way to the right of the conservatives. Nuff said

[Die Neue Zeit]

The SPGB is part of the World Socialist Movement.
However, it seems to be different in a few ways than its other counterparts in the WSM.


for example, the World Socialist Party of the United States, and the Socialist Party of Canada, are mostly inactive, with probably only a few remaining members at the most, and I have the impression they do not believe in demonstrations or taking part in elections, which they deem as "reformism".

The sooner the "Socialist Party of Canada" dies out, the better. :mad:

[robbo203]

The sooner the "Socialist Party of Canada" dies out, the better. :mad:

Er ...why? Whatever one's criticisms of the WSM and I have one or two, they are at least indisputably a revolutionary political organisation with a clear conception of socialism. The same could not be said of huge swathes of the Left who have for the most part only the foggiest notion of "socialism" if that and who are more often than not, opportunist weathercocks