g20 Pittsburgh

[Ele'ill]

Dubbed the steel city revolt - Anyone from Pittsburgh? Anyone from Philadelphia?

What are your thoughts on this event?

[Jack]

Big build up, then a big fizzle, nothing important is going to happen. Just a bunch of kids wearing black with no decent plans.

[Bud Struggle]

Big build up, then a big fizzle, nothing important is going to happen. Just a bunch of kids wearing black with no decent plans.

Reminds you a little of RevLeft. :D

[Ele'ill]

Big build up, then a big fizzle, nothing important is going to happen. Just a bunch of kids wearing black with no decent plans.


Why have we not seen significant demonstrations since the global justice era?

[Kronos]

Weapons technology, that's why not. The days of uprisings are over. They are contained in a matter of minutes.

It woudn't matter that a thousand revolutionaries who couldn't agree on anything but the color red might accidentally take control if they were persistent. You could organize ten times that force, consisting of exact revolutionary duplicates (like terminators with berets), and still they wouldn't get the upper hand.

If you want revolution, the most you can do is go to one of those clubs where you can mosh to that horrible punk/thrash crap to get your rocks off. Real revolution will never happen. Take what you can get- fantasy. You may never live the Paris Commune....but you can wear the t-shirt.

[Bud Struggle]

You may never live the Paris Commune....but you can wear the t-shirt.

At times Kronos you border on brilliant.

[Ele'ill]

Weapons technology, that's why not. The days of uprisings are over. They are contained in a matter of minutes.

Every revolutionary movement has faced a more technologically advanced adversary. Until said adversary's supply lines are thieved.


It woudn't matter that a thousand revolutionaries who couldn't agree on anything but the color red might accidentally take control if they were persistent. You could organize ten times that force, consisting of exact revolutionary duplicates (like terminators with berets), and still they wouldn't get the upper hand.

I agree to the first point that there is no movement in the United States right now. Its confused rabble. Of course terminators wouldn't succeed mainly because they aren't real and even if they were real John Connor would stop them with his revolutionary band of refugees - NOT the government and its technology.


If you want revolution, the most you can do is go to one of those clubs where you can mosh to that horrible punk/thrash crap to get your rocks off.

Or march in the street, organize, go to school, try to reform some aspects of the system.





Real revolution will never happen.

Except for the revolutions that already have.



Take what you can get- fantasy.

And I do! I played half-life 2 and loved it! But what if I see change as attainable? What if I dedicate my life to this? Cut all the bad ideas out at the start and just keep pushing forward. I know I'll make some difference.

[Jack]

Because protest changes nothing, and reform changes nothing important.

[Ele'ill]

Because protest changes nothing, and reform changes nothing important.


Historically speaking of course :laugh:

Why are you vegan? Without any hope of change - why are you not a capitalist?

[Jack]

Historically speaking of course :laugh:

Why are you vegan? Without any hope of change - why are you not a capitalist?

I'm vegan for the chicks, there's also more direct actions for animal rights we will not divulge into.

Do you mean someone who believes in capitalism? That would be stupid, I know that revolution changes things, not reformism.

[Ele'ill]

Hey! Yeah!

More updates at http://resistg20.org/

Let's start to network and head out in Sept. to see what's going on.

[danyboy27]

Weapons technology, that's why not. The days of uprisings are over. They are contained in a matter of minutes.

It woudn't matter that a thousand revolutionaries who couldn't agree on anything but the color red might accidentally take control if they were persistent. You could organize ten times that force, consisting of exact revolutionary duplicates (like terminators with berets), and still they wouldn't get the upper hand.

If you want revolution, the most you can do is go to one of those clubs where you can mosh to that horrible punk/thrash crap to get your rocks off. Real revolution will never happen. Take what you can get- fantasy. You may never live the Paris Commune....but you can wear the t-shirt.

you got a point, but in theory this is possible to have a revolution, but it would require a sheer amount of organization and it would take time, i think even tomk would agree on this one:D

infiltration of the whole us governement, it would take a decade, million dollars of fund, but it would be possible to completely control the us from the inside and if you can do it, you can make a big difference of what happen worldwide.

hoo well, i guess publishing newspaper people dont read is far more important :D

[IcarusAngel]

What Kronos is saying is true of course, but not for every third world country out there. Many of these regimes can still easily be toppled. Remember the reforms in East Timor? Sure, the United States and Indonesia wrecked the country, but the US has been losing its ability to maintain its "area next door that has never hurt anybody."

However, even in the third world, it's gotten harder to revolt, so you see that they are also trying to reform things.

[Ele'ill]

you got a point, but in theory this is possible to have a revolution, but it would require a sheer amount of organization and it would take time, i think even tomk would agree on this one:D

infiltration of the whole us governement, it would take a decade, million dollars of fund, but it would be possible to completely control the us from the inside and if you can do it, you can make a big difference of what happen worldwide.

hoo well, i guess publishing newspaper people dont read is far more important :D

Every revolutionary movement has had to go up against a much larger much more experienced and better trained adversary.

If all you had to do was go out into the street with a megaphone and yell there'd be a revolution and counter revolution daily.


You didn't think it would be easy and without sacrifice did you?

[IcarusAngel]

What if its a libertarian/Ron Paul revolution or a fascist revolution? Then you wouldn't want to be a part of it.

[danyboy27]

Every revolutionary movement has had to go up against a much larger much more experienced and better trained adversary.

If all you had to do was go out into the street with a megaphone and yell there'd be a revolution and counter revolution daily.


You didn't think it would be easy and without sacrifice did you?

the technologic gap to fill in order to bring down a regime like the us is impossible to fill with megaphone or small protest.

we are not talking of forks vs gunpowder rifle, we are talking about something way more bigger, mass surveillance, a well trained and loyal military, and a structure so complex and well structured, its would require more subtility than brutal forces.

this verry system is alive and well beccause it is expecting brutal force against it, its designed that way, if you want to break it, you have to do it from the inside has i said earlier.

military training and organization greatly changed since the good old day of 1917, if you control the military, you control the country, and you wont control the military by cofronting it.

[Ele'ill]

the technologic gap to fill in order to bring down a regime like the us is impossible to fill with megaphone or small protest.

I agree.

But the megaphone and protest are not there to directly topple the regime.


we are not talking of forks vs gunpowder rifle, we are talking about something way more bigger, mass surveillance, a well trained and loyal military, and a structure so complex and well structured, its would require more subtility than brutal forces.

Its overly complex and entirely too large.





this verry system is alive and well beccause it is expecting brutal force against it, its designed that way, if you want to break it, you have to do it from the inside has i said earlier.

It's citizens are on the inside.



military training and organization greatly changed since the good old day of 1917, if you control the military, you control the country, and you wont control the military by cofronting it.

The US is getting throttled in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[RGacky3]

Real revolution will never happen. Take what you can get- fantasy. You may never live the Paris Commune....but you can wear the t-shirt.

How many times in history has that been said. Speaking of fantasy get back to your reading nietzche, you'll achieve your will to power soon enough buddy.


At times Kronos you border on brilliant.

Sure ... To you


Because protest changes nothing, and reform changes nothing important.

It forces people (in power) to pay attention.

[Ele'ill]

Never mind. I am not going anymore.

http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20090701223718450




:laugh::lol::laugh::lol::blink::blink::blink::laug h::lol::blink:

[ls]

Because protest changes nothing, and reform changes nothing important.

?

Granted 90% of protests aren't that progressive and many are in fact reactionary, but there have been some which have definitely been progressive.

If we work by your definition of what constitutes reform, everything is reformist.

[Jack]

?

Granted 90% of protests aren't that progressive and many are in fact reactionary, but there have been some which have definitely been progressive.

If we work by your definition of what constitutes reform, everything is reformist.

I just think that because we don't have the numbers nor the dedication (well, not all of us) that the protest is going to be kind of useless. That's not saying we shouldn't insert ourselves into other struggles such as this as a way of raising awareness and increasing class conciousness, but to do such a thing in this instance is useless.

[dogfooddi]

i live in pittsburgh. the only ones happy about the G20 are hotels and service industry. they are going to make mad loot from that.
i think it's super ironic to have pittsburgh as the location for the summit given its labor history dating all the way back to the whiskey rebellion.

but WHY pittsburgh?

1. cheap cheap cheap and out of the way of majorly pissed off places.

2. affected by the economy but much less so than other places. the cost of living is mindblowingly low.

3. pittsburgh is almost like a town of "hicks" (i use the term loosely). many working class locals are all about workers' rights but hate black people. there's a lot of self-righteousness and apathy floating around. the rest of the population is college students or health care professionals. the only industries pittsburgh has now are universities and university affiliated medical centers. (in fact, all but one of the hospitals are owned by the university of pittsburgh. that one is broke but it has to stay open because of anti-monopoly legislation.)

[Ele'ill]

but WHY pittsburgh?


http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/05/28/g20-why-pittsburgh/