GLBT Culture and the Mainstream

[Rosa Provokateur]

I recently started seeing this guy and I can honestly say that it feels like the first actual relationship I've ever had. He's really sweet and we're kinda on Cloud 9 so to speak but the euphoria of it has made me consider whay the future of the GLBT sub-culture in America is becoming. All of a sudden it seems that we've become a market to capitalize on what with the LOGO channel and SIRIUS OutQ, etc. One part of me is glad to see the world opening up to us and another part of me feels that we're losing what makes us independent; I hold nothing against straight people except that since coming out I've gotten alot of crap and the local GLBT community has been my escape and now straight/capitalist businesses are coming in and mining it for all it's got.

Is there a way to keep the GLBT community from assimilating to straight culture without seeming heterophobic?

[Trystan]

What are "GLBT culture" and "straight culture"? I don't think that sexual orientation comes with any "culture".

[Kronos]

Is there a way to keep the GLBT community from assimilating to straight culture without seeming heterophobic?

All members should be encouraged to roller skate down Santa Monica boulevard while wearing sequin jumpsuits.

This is my advice.

Homosexuals must reach out to the heterosexual community in an attempt to share their culture.

[trivas7]

We homosexuals have always been assimilated by mainstream culture. Only now we affect mainstream culture more than ever in turn. Be glad we are (hopefully) past the historical norm of pre-Stonewall police raids, blatant discrimination and casual criminalization.

[Bud Struggle]

From outcasts to being cool to just normal people. That's the way it goes.

[Rosa Provokateur]

What are "GLBT culture" and "straight culture"? I don't think that sexual orientation comes with any "culture".

It doesnt inherintly but in reaction to straight alienation, the GLBT community has built up it's own culture as an alternative to straight society.

[Rosa Provokateur]

We homosexuals have always been assimilated by mainstream culture. Only now we affect mainstream culture more than ever in turn. Be glad we are (hopefully) past the historical norm of pre-Stonewall police raids, blatant discrimination and casual criminalization.

I guess; I've only been out since last October and now that I find out we have something of our own, someone bigger comes in and sells it to guilty liberals so they wont feel like bigots. I hate to come off all whiney and crap but it's almost like... I dont know how to describe it. I need a hug:crying:

[Rosa Provokateur]

From outcasts to being cool to just normal people. That's the way it goes.

"History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce." --Marx

[Jimmie Higgins]

I recently started seeing this guy and I can honestly say that it feels like the first actual relationship I've ever had. He's really sweet and we're kinda on Cloud 9 so to speak but the euphoria of it has made me consider whay the future of the GLBT sub-culture in America is becoming. All of a sudden it seems that we've become a market to capitalize on what with the LOGO channel and SIRIUS OutQ, etc. One part of me is glad to see the world opening up to us and another part of me feels that we're losing what makes us independent; I hold nothing against straight people except that since coming out I've gotten alot of crap and the local GLBT community has been my escape and now straight/capitalist businesses are coming in and mining it for all it's got.

Is there a way to keep the GLBT community from assimilating to straight culture without seeming heterophobic?

Straight culture is capitalist? There's no gay bourgeois within the LGBT community - no Advocate magazine?

Is the problem really being "assimilated into straight culture"? It sounds your real beef is with gay culture being comodified and resold.

[Rosa Provokateur]

Straight culture is capitalist? There's no gay bourgeois within the LGBT community - no Advocate magazine?

Is the problem really being "assimilated into straight culture"? It sounds your real beef is with gay culture being comodified and resold.

I dont doubt that there are but atleast it's a magazine some-what adressing GLBT issues.

Assimilation is the best word I can think of for it; I just dont want something that means so much to be price-tagged. Example: the rainbow flag. It actually has meaning yet walk into any Hot Topic and they've got "pride" this and "pride" that adorned with the flag pattern for and hipster or emo to just pickup and accessorize with.

I love fashion as much as anybody else but if something isnt done, we'll get hollowed out the same way Che's portrait did.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think maybe you are fetishizing your own chains. Gay culture in the US is largely due to a reaction to bigorty - is it better to have underground gay bars and a underground gay culture if that means that you can't hold hands with someone because bigots might attack you?

I totally understand your hatred of the commercialization of LGBT culture, but straight people identifying with LGBT people is a victory that should be celebrated. Gay Marriage is a blow against right-wing bigotry, even if you don't ever want to get married yourself.

It's too bad that culture and things people are passionate about get assimilated and commercialized in capitalism: hip-hop/punk culture, urban black culture, and so on. But this is a problem with capitalism, not a problem with winning more equality.

[Rosa Provokateur]

I think maybe you are fetishizing your own chains. Gay culture in the US is largely due to a reaction to bigorty - is it better to have underground gay bars and a underground gay culture if that means that you can't hold hands with someone because bigots might attack you?

I totally understand your hatred of the commercialization of LGBT culture, but straight people identifying with LGBT people is a victory that should be celebrated. Gay Marriage is a blow against right-wing bigotry, even if you don't ever want to get married yourself.

It's too bad that culture and things people are passionate about get assimilated and commercialized in capitalism: hip-hop/punk culture, urban black culture, and so on. But this is a problem with capitalism, not a problem with winning more equality.

I'm glad that people are taking an interest in our plight but if there's a way to resist assimilation without attacking straight culture then I wanna know how.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Maybe you should just stop worrying about all this 'assimliation' and 'culture' and just be who you want to be.

Stop worrying about this stuff, it's really a waste of time and energy. If you want to be labeled as a part of some kind of 'culture' then I think you've lost the point of what culture really means. I always viewed your 'culture' as whatever the fuck you wanted it to be, as "culture" really only exists in people's heads. It's an ideal, so make your own.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Well first of all, is there is real homogeneous LGBT culture to begin with? What is the offical LGBT culture - is it club culture, middle class professional culture as represented stereotypically on TV? Some people in the marrigae equality movement want to exculde trans and other folks who might "scare mainstream liberals".

Some queer-studies post-modernists believe marriage is "assimilation" to heteronormative culture and so they are against gay marriage. So it's unclear to me what would constitute assimilation and where the boundairies of LGBT culture are.


I'm glad that people are taking an interest in our plight but if there's a way to resist assimilation without attacking straight culture then I wanna know how.

To prevent commercialization of the LGBT community, here's how I think it can be done:

1. Build a radical movement for full sexual liberation, fight against all bigotry against LGBT people.

2. Argue for a radical understanding of gay opression and where it comes from in capitalist society. Connect LGBT opression to the pression of women in capitalism; show how LGBT people are blamed for "destroying the family unit" as a scapegoat for the real problems in capitalism. Reject liberal bourgeois attempts to sterr the movement.

As long as such a movement stays strong, you will be able to still attract allies among pro-liberation straights while commercial culture will not be able to assimilate an ongoing movement for fundamental radical change and LGBT liberation.

3. Help lead a worker's revolution.

[Revy]

I recently started seeing this guy and I can honestly say that it feels like the first actual relationship I've ever had. He's really sweet and we're kinda on Cloud 9 so to speak but the euphoria of it has made me consider whay the future of the GLBT sub-culture in America is becoming. All of a sudden it seems that we've become a market to capitalize on what with the LOGO channel and SIRIUS OutQ, etc. One part of me is glad to see the world opening up to us and another part of me feels that we're losing what makes us independent; I hold nothing against straight people except that since coming out I've gotten alot of crap and the local GLBT community has been my escape and now straight/capitalist businesses are coming in and mining it for all it's got.

Is there a way to keep the GLBT community from assimilating to straight culture without seeming heterophobic?

I'm gay, but I think this whole "assimilation" business doesn't make much sense.
Yes, gay people have culture. But this culture evolved because gay people were forced to bond together as a community.

Maybe this is controversial to some, but I just want a future where sexual orientation does not matter, where you can be gay without oppression, and open about it. Yes, gay clubs would still exist, because that's a way for gay people to meet. Would gay people still associate with each other ? Of course.

I do not view *culture* as something sacred. If all the cultures of the world somehow merged into one, it would not bother me. I am all about humanity.

There are some people, who under the veneer of "radicalism", suggest that gay marriage is somehow "assimilation". Well, I don't know how equal rights can be a bad thing :confused:. Do I want to be like straight people? No. Am I all that different? No.

[Rosa Provokateur]

Hmmm, I think Eco-Marxist hit the nail on the head. I think my problem is that I'm sick of "pride" becoming a fad instead of an attitude. Like I know other people my age who're gay and when someone says "homo", "queer", or "gay" as a way to describe something as negative I'm like the only person who says anything about it.

I'm not saying we should be given special treatment or some kind of 21-gun salute just because we happen to be attracted to the same gender, we should just be allowed a kind of space to call our own. I remember how great punk rock used to be before the whole Hot Topic thing took it over, I dont want the GLBT community to fall into the same kind of trap.

[Demogorgon]

Hmmm, I think Eco-Marxist hit the nail on the head. I think my problem is that I'm sick of "pride" becoming a fad instead of an attitude. Like I know other people my age who're gay and when someone says "homo", "queer", or "gay" as a way to describe something as negative I'm like the only person who says anything about it.

I'm not saying we should be given special treatment or some kind of 21-gun salute just because we happen to be attracted to the same gender, we should just be allowed a kind of space to call our own. I remember how great punk rock used to be before the whole Hot Topic thing took it over, I dont want the GLBT community to fall into the same kind of trap.
Punk rock was commercialised over a decade before you were born mate. The "cool" notion of being outside the mainstream is a big seller, always has been.

As for your complaints about gay culture, I am not sure what you want to be separated. The need for separate gay bars and nightclubs is pretty obvious, people use them to meet potential partners. But other aspects of gay culture ought not to be kept separate. What is seen as "gay" music, literature, cinema and so on is greatly enjoyed by many heterosexuals and I see that as a good thing. Culture at its best is drawn from the diversity of human experience. As there are gay people in society, aspects of culture must reflect gay experiences, lest it be missing out on an important part of human life. Why this should be boxed off eludes me though.

[RGacky3]

Is there a way to keep the GLBT community from assimilating to straight culture without seeming heterophobic?

No you live in a Capitalist society.


What are "GLBT culture" and "straight culture"? I don't think that sexual orientation comes with any "culture".

I second that, the only reason that there was a GLBT culture to begin with was because they were perseculted and it was extremely taboo. So they had to kind of make their own culture.

In societies where homosexuality or transgender is'nt taboo and is'nt persecuted there is'nt much of a seperate GLBT culture, why would there be.


I've only been out since last October and now that I find out we have something of our own, someone bigger comes in and sells it to guilty liberals so they wont feel like bigots.

key word there.


I remember how great punk rock used to be before the whole Hot Topic thing took it over, I dont want the GLBT community to fall into the same kind of trap.

As Marxists would say your Fetishizing culture. Punk Rock is still Punk Rock, its a type of music. Did Hot topic scratch all your punk rock CDs?

If your bothered that your not unique anymore, because what your doing is now culturally acceptable and mainstream then chances are you wern't unique to begin with, just a fascionable unconformist.

As far as gay pride is concerned there should'nt be any need for it. The reason there is a need for it is because of bigotry. The less bigotry there is, the less bigots there are, the less gay pride would be an issue, and the less people will care about someone calling them a "homo".

[Rosa Provokateur]

and the less people will care about someone calling them a "homo".

It's alot worse than it sounds. Being singled out just because of one thing, not so much the word as the meaning and animosity behind it.

[RGacky3]

It's alot worse than it sounds. Being singled out just because of one thing, not so much the word as the meaning and animosity behind it.

If actual institutionalized oppression of gays stops and it stops being taboo and seen as something bizzzare and decedant, it would be no worse than being called fatty?

[Jack]

So you're a gay, Christian, primitivist who uses a computer?

The contradictions are killing me.

[Rosa Provokateur]

So you're a gay, Christian, primitivist who uses a computer?

The contradictions are killing me.

Who ever said I was primitivist?

Their ideas and literature interests me and I support their projects but I dont think it could work on a large scale just because it would mean forcing people into a way of life they might not want.

I think communal expirimentation or solo expirimentation should be encouraged and re-wilding projects should be actively supported by the anarchist community.

[gorillafuck]

So you're a gay, Christian, primitivist who uses a computer?

The contradictions are killing me.
Was that called for at all? You shouldn't just antagonize someone out of the blue like that.

As for the thread...

The reason LGBT culture is being commercialized is BECAUSE of the gains it is making. When a culture that people find interesting becomes more mainstream it will always be commercialized upon. It would only remain independent and underground if it made no gains.

[Rosa Provokateur]

Speaking of making gains, theres this new group in Dallas called Queer Liberaction. I'm gonna check out a few meetings in July but thought you guys might wanna look into them.

http://queerliberaction.org/

Enjoy:)

[ArdentCapitalist]

Unless their is some sort of coercion involved (Be it state or otherwise) forcing gays or straight people to watch Logo and partake in other things considered part of the "gay community" or "gay culture" I don't really see why you have a problem with things. If a businessman makes a large profit off of gay culture, it's because he/she provided a product or service that gay people enjoyed.

[fiddlesticks]

I can't think of any ways to stop this from happening. I can see why it's irritating, I think it is just becoming trendy much like being nerdy managed to become a good thing during the 90s and this past decade, it's a weird and unstoppable force, but if it makes for more acceptance it is a good thing.