Does Nazism belong on the far right?

[Rusty Shackleford]

this may be a bit uninformed but its still something worth knowing and asking.

is not nazism an anti-capitalist, but also anti-communist system which is undoubtedly authoritarian? this would place it in the center economically. the left being socialism and the right being capitalism?

political compass sort of inspired this. thats the first time ive seen it represented as a centrist authoritarian system.

where this also comes from is that Pinochet seems to be more right-wing than Hitler due to his use of free-market capitalism.

[GPDP]

I would suggest that you not get so hung up on the degree to which markets are free of government intervention and regulation as a measure of how right-wing or left-wing a particular ideology is, and focus more on who that particular ideology serves. If it serves the bourgeois and attacks the working class, it is right-wing.

In the case of Nazism, it is pretty much the ultimate anti-working class ideology. It proposes to use the power of the state to actively crush left-wing movements, as well as to oppress the enemies of the white race. As such, it classifies as a far-right ideology. Forget about all the supposed "anti-capitalist" posturing and rhetoric, and look at who has benefited from Nazism in the past, and who supported its rise.

Likewise, when it comes to free market fundamentalists such as libertarians and especially ancaps, they can also be classified as far-right, as their proposals essentially seeks to destroy all the gains of the working class in the name of "liberty." This liberty, of course, would only benefit those with wealth and power. It is the liberty to exploit us mercilessly.

[EqualityandFreedom]

Fascist economics are approximately centrist, while extremely authoritarian socially, a more detailed explanation here politicalcompass.org/analysis2 and here politicalcompass.org/extremeright (type http and www first, silly rules won't let me post links yet)

[New Tet]

My friend, at the risk of seeming rude, I offer this: The only place Nazism belongs is six feet or more under the ground, where even our dogs can't sniff 'em [it]out.

Nazism must be expunged, erased, deleted, never to return to the body politic. Society must forever immunize itself to that visciously fatal virus.

No, Nazism, Fascism or whatever it may wish to call itself in its manifold permutations cannot be placed at the "right" or the "left" of anything in our social and political life because no matter what social system may exist now and in the future we will always have a "right" and a "left".

There is no place in the world anymore for Nazism.

[Rusty Shackleford]

i know that major companies still exsited while in nazi germany, including some american ones like Coke (Fanta) and IBM. Mauser, Daimler, focke-wolf, henschel and so on. i was stating it form that rhetorical point of veiw that they were anti-capitalistic.

i know Libertarians and anrarco-cappies are far right, but they are nonauthoritarian which is not part of this question.

i was just curious because i made a post stating it was centrist without thinking much of it. also, it would help t clarify the argument that National Socialism is NOT leftist with anyone who some how thinks it is.

and GPDP: i understand that their(libertarians and ancaps) view of liberty is merely market liberty which is not at all freedom for those who supply that market. it leaves those bourgeois with less restrictions and less regulations to further and mroe efficiently exploit the worker.

in reply to New Tet: I completely agree. but this was just on a basis of understanding where it lies. with all of this spin people are puting on recent fascist movements like Nazbol, and National Anarchists. i just figured it would be best to know in order to counter this rising naming of fascist/nazi movements as left.

[Rusty Shackleford]

:rolleyes: Looks like someone has swallowed some "libertarian" propaganda. Capitalism is always authoritarian.

oh come on haha. i know that libertariansim is ridiculous. what i meant is a non authoritarian Government. Libertarianism would only allow for capital to be used to its most to generate profits regardless of workers feelings or wants. merely to keep them alive would be all they needed. and well, to buy their products.

[zimmerwald1915]

is not nazism an anti-capitalist, but also anti-communist system which is undoubtedly authoritarian? this would place it in the center economically. the left being socialism and the right being capitalism?
I thought that most people who signed up on this site knew that the "third way" was a myth.

Wait, I just realized I have nothing to contribute to this discussion.

*slinks away*

[Rusty Shackleford]

That is if it ever came about.:laugh: Behind all their rhetoric is the fact they are fanatic supporters of wage slavery. How is a state that enforces wage slavery not authoritarian? Do you think "authoritarian states" come only with people goose-stepping? All states have the same nature, that of protecting capitalism against workers. So, this distinction between "libertarian" capitalism and "normal" capitalism is false.

no, i meant like on issues of religion and personal lives. such as a theocracy or something. Thanks for the input though.

[ZeroNowhere]

My friend, at the risk of seeming rude, I offer this: The only place Nazism belongs is six feet or more under the ground, where even our dogs can't sniff 'em out.

Nazism must be expunged, erased, deleted, never to return to the body politic. Society must forever immunize itself to that visciously fatal virus.

No, Nazism, Fascism or whatever it may wish to call itself in its manifold permutations cannot be placed at the "right" or the "left" of anything in our social and political life because no matter what social system may exist now and in the future we will always have a "right" and a "left".

There is no place in the world anymore for Nazism.That's lovely, you should become a populist. ;)


i know that major companies still exsited while in nazi germany, including some american ones like Coke (Fanta) and IBM. Mauser, Daimler, focke-wolf, henschel and so on. i was stating it form that rhetorical point of veiw that they were anti-capitalistic."We stand for maintenance of private property."
Anti-capitalist as fuck.

Anyways, on the capitalist spectrum, I'd say that Nazism would probably fall somewhere left of the center, at least as practiced. Somewhere around Kucinich territory, perhaps. There's no real reason to think of it as far-right on an economic scale, it's no more far-right than mainstream Democrats.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well, i made the disclaimer that this was a rather uneducated question. I guess i was misinformed that Nazism was anti-capitalistic. i always thought that was hypocritical since they had corporations fund the rise of that party.

[New Tet]

[...]
in reply to New Tet: I completely agree. but this was just on a basis of understanding where it lies. with all of this spin people are puting on recent fascist movements like Nazbol, and National Anarchists. i just figured it would be best to know in order to counter this rising naming of fascist/nazi movements as left.

Nazism is the anarchy of capitalism run amok. Let me translate: Fascism is capitalism devoid of its democratic institutions; it is capitalism militarized, regimented and suicidal. Daniel De Leon named it before it was fully formed: Industrial Feudalism.

[New Tet]

Carl Radek called it "the iron hoop that holds the collapsing barrel of capitalism."

[Rusty Shackleford]

That one idea that they were anti-capitalist hung me up on so many things. i was getting really confused. i just realized where i got all of this. My god damn Economics teacher. before i took that class. i was telling my friends that it was just extreme capitalism. then my teacher had said they were anti-capitalist which threw me off by so much. looks like i made the mistake of believing it without verifying it.

Again, thank you all.

[mikelepore]

Carl Radek called it "the iron hoop that holds the collapsing barrel of capitalism."


Drawing by Budd Steinhilber scanned from the 1963 SLP pamphlet: Eric Hass, "The Reactionary Right: Incipient Fascism."
http://deleonism.org/images/barrel1-429x600.jpg

-- EDIT: replaced img tag by a link due to a permission problem in my .htaccess file

[zimmerwald1915]

http://deleonism.org/images/barrel1-429x600.jpg

Drawing by Budd Steinhilber scanned from the 1963 SLP pamphlet: Eric Hass, "The Reactionary Right: Incipient Fascism."
I don't think a red "x" featured very prominently in 1963 SLP propaganda...

[RedAldo]

Not really Nazism wasn't completely anti-capitalist there were ideas of anti-capitalism, for instance in Nazi party's 25 points there was the point of nationalization of all industry. The Nazi hierarchy and Hitler didn't really believe in such ideas they just put ideas such as that in their manifesto because they were fashionable at the time not because they actually ideologically believed them. Buisnessmen actually fitted quite nicely in the Nazi regime and its the same with Fascism in Italy.

[Fireonmyhand]

Well to be fair fascism and Nazism took their bad name by Mussolini and Hitler.Imnot saying that i agree with the views and goals of those but Nazism and fascism started (or were used as a front ok sure but ) as a way for their states to become stronger.I dont think thats so bad as an idea.Again im not saying i agree with them im just saying that by themselves they are ideas.People with no true humanitarian education give them their bad names.As for the always being a left and a right that is by far true simply because people will never all agree on something which is the reason we still live in a capitalist society

[Il Medico]

Left Wing- Communist, Socialist, Marxist, Trotskyist, Maoist, Anarchist, etc.
Center Left- Democratic Party, Independent Liberal Parties.
Center Right- Republican Party
Right Wing- Nationalist, Fascist, Nazis.

Got it?

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well to be fair fascism and Nazism took their bad name by Mussolini and Hitler.Imnot saying that i agree with the views and goals of those but Nazism and fascism started (or were used as a front ok sure but ) as a way for their states to become stronger.I dont think thats so bad as an idea.Again im not saying i agree with them im just saying that by themselves they are ideas.People with no true humanitarian education give them their bad names.

i dont think a Fascist or a Nazi regardless of their humanitarian education can pull off it as being humanitarian, but good is relative. to the state they are good, to the people they are bad. Nazism is racist, so, right away it is non humanitarian. and Fascism is expansive through military means, again, not humanitarian. and as others pointed out, they are anti-worker.

Plus, i think a world war instigated by them is enough reason to give them a bad name.


and i got it. it belongs on the right. and i guess it doesn't really matter where it is, its Nazism...

[Sand Castle]

Nazism is the anarchy of capitalism run amok. Let me translate: Fascism is capitalism devoid of its democratic institutions; it is capitalism militarized, regimented and suicidal. Daniel De Leon named it before it was fully formed: Industrial Feudalism.
I would have to say that industrial feudalism is the best term for it that I've heard. Just check out some stuff on Strasserism*. It supports the idea of a tithe, much like feudalism. And that is just one similarity.

I would put Nazism, both Hitlerist and Strasserist, on the far-right, crammed right between feudalism and capitalism.

* Strasserism is a kind of Nazism pioneered by the Strasser brothers, who were NSDAP members.

[Il Medico]

Socialist, I agree. Left Wing was the only group that rejects capitalism. He asked if it belonged in the far right so i tried to place it according to the position of others.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

i was just curious because i made a post stating it was centrist without thinking much of it. also, it would help t clarify the argument that National Socialism is NOT leftist with anyone who some how thinks it is.
The central issue is equality versus inequality (or hierarchy). Socialism, and the left in general, supports a greater degree of economic and social equality between all people.

Right-wing ideologies, including both Nazism and (right)-libertarianism, support a greater degree of inequality and hierarchy between people. They believe that some people are inherently better than others, that you can tell who is better by the color of their skin (in the case of Nazism) or by their business skills (in the case of libertarianism), and that these superior people deserve to have great wealth and power and to dominate others. Nazis prefer to enforce inequality through the state and right-libertarians prefer to enforce it through the market, but they are all supporters of inequality.

[Forward Union]

Let's knock this one on the head. Left refers to ideas or policies or systems that are uphold public welfare and well being, they also place emphasis on the power and rights of the majority. Right however, refers to those ideas and policies which benefit entrepreneurs, militarists, the strength of the nation and the rulers of that nation and it's industry. This is normally justified by either the trickle down theory, or sometimes an explicit desire to put down and kill the unsuccessful. Based on a belief in the pseudo science of Social Darwinism.

Fascism (and Nazism) benefited big business and industrialists by smashing trade unions, communist groups, residents association and creating Employer friendly employment laws including but not limited to the legalisation of slavery. They strengthened the military and state infrastructure at the expense of the people.

It was also socially right as well as economically as it institutionalised Racism and Sexism, to the point of mass extermination of disliked racial groups.

The fact that it used the term Socialism was simply for popularity, the so called 'socialist policies' that it did have were not very different to the few Social-democratic policies we have in various western countries such as a National health service. These are useful for the ruling class for many reasons.

[Rusty Shackleford]

alright well these have been a great help. this will make it easier when talking to other people.