Zionism

[Die Rote Fahne]

I am an adamant supporter of a two state solution (pre 1967 borders), with the complete withdrawal of Israeli forces, the end of the blockade on Gaza, and the end of anti-Arab sentiment from hardliners, such as Avigdor Lieberman in Israel, as well as the dismantling of all illegal settlements in the West bank and Gaza. I believe that both the people of Israel and Palestine should, and can, have democratic states in which they can finally get along like Canada and the USA can.

However, so long as Israel continues to bombard Gaza with attacks such as that in late 2008 early 2009, we cannot expect to see that any time soon. With the election of, what are essentially, proto-fascists in Israel it is increasingly hard to deal.

Now. Does Israel have the right to defend itself against Hamas rocket attacks? Yes. Does it have the right to make the response disproportionate essentially killing 100 Gazans for every Israeli killed? No.

Both Israel and Hamas have committed war crimes (Hamas to a lesser extent). However, it is increasingly hard to say that Israel is in the wrong, because of the Zionist movement. Anytime you mention anything negative about Israel, you are labelled as an anti-Semite. Even Jews who speak out are labelled as self haters.

Zionism in it's present for is a proto fascist movement. It supports the displacement of Arabs for the settlement of Jews. It supports violence as a means of doing so, and it scapegoats the Palestinians as the reason why we cannot have peace.

I have no problem with any religion or race. Issues such as peace should never have anything to do with it. I don't care if both Israel and Palestine were both made up of black Hindus. It is a silly conflict, and Israel needs to make the steps toward ending it's support of Zionism.

Peace can be achieved only through Israel.

"Not Arabs the problem, not Jews the problem, not Judaism, not Muslim. Only Zionism." - Orthodox Jew in Israel protesting the illegal occupation of Palestine.

[gorillafuck]

Now. Does Israel have the right to defend itself against Hamas rocket attacks? Yes. Does it have the right to make the response disproportionate essentially killing 100 Gazans for every Israeli killed? No.Israel has no right to respond to the attacks because the attacks were out of defense and anger against an imperialist monster that has been massacring them since the very start.


I have no problem with any religion or race. Issues such as peace should never have anything to do with it. I don't care if both Israel and Palestine were both made up of black Hindus. It is a silly conflict, and Israel needs to make the steps toward ending it's support of Zionism.
Israel was founded on Zionism, it will not just "stop supporting Zionism".

Edit: Zionism isn't a proto-fascist movement, in my opinion. It's a religious fundamentalist movement that serves as a dandy tool for imperialism. It may be racist, but racist and fascist are not necessarily the same thing.

[FreeFocus]

There's no such thing as a two-state "solution." It does not remedy the ethnic cleansing and murder that took place to found the Israeli state. As long as Israel exists, you have Zionism.

The closest thing to a "solution" is a one state solution, although states are never a solution ultimately.

[9]

Zionism isn't a proto-fascist movement, in my opinion. It's a religious fundamentalist movement that serves as a dandy tool for imperialism. It may be racist, but racist and fascist are not necessarily the same thing.
I think this is fundamentally inaccurate. Most, if not all, Israeli PMs have been secular and many of Israel's most extreme right-wing nationalist factions - this includes Avigdor Lieberman and his Yisrael Beiteinu - are essentially irreligious.
Furthermore, Israel's religious parties have generally commanded no more than 15% of the Knesset, and ultra-Orthodox Jews - even those living in Israel - tend to reject Zionism.

[FreeFocus]

Nonetheless, rock, many aspects of the rationalization for the existence of the Israeli state lie in religious fundamentalism (e.g., God promised the land to the Jews).

[9]

Nonetheless, rock, many aspects of the rationalization for the existence of the Israeli state lie in religious fundamentalism (e.g., God promised the land to the Jews).

This is true to a certain extent, but generally, there aren't many more examples of this besides the one you've given. But colonialism almost always justifies itself with some similar notion of divine entitlement (the US being a very relevant example). Though I'd argue that, in the case of Israel, more of the rationalization comes from fear-mongering and the sense of entitlement comes more from the exploitation of the history of persecution of the Jews then from religious conviction.

[Il Medico]

Zionist Logic: We have been oppressed! Lets get together and go oppress someone else!


Zionism is nationalism for a group without a nationality. It is absurd, and even a lot of Jews disagree with it.

[Qayin]

Take a look at your promised land.
Your deed is that gun in your hand.
Mt. zions a minefield, the west bank, the gaza strip.
Soon to be parking lots for american tourists and fascist cops yeahhh

the original poster will get this.:thumbup1: