The BNP threat and how to deal with it

[REDSOX]

The BNP are the most successful fascist party this country has seen ever. The BNP under Nick griffin has remodeled the BNP to such an extent that it now has over 50 councillors in town halls across the country in parish, borough, and county councils. In the recent elections it polled nearly a million votes reaching 6.3% of the national vote up from the 2004 elections. In some areas of the country in white working class areas in particular they polled up to 20% of the vote, hardly surprising since the liberal elites hold them in utter contempt. The parties membership at the last count was around 10,000 although only about a quarter are politically active. These are worrying developments indeed, and the left needs to stop being in denial about this threat and start to analyse how to defeat this neo fascist post modernist party. We must not only fight the bourgeois capitalists and imperialists but the frankenstein monster of fascism as well.

So what are the reasons for the fascist rise.

A tory party move to the centre and a failure to connect with people from the white working class.

New labour's message to the white working class in particular, fuck off and die.

The decline of old political loyalties.

Improved BNP organisation and image especially with the use of jewish people and women in the party.

The left being complacent and in denial.

The media being complacent

Lack of credible fascist rivals

The failure of anti fascist opponents to get their acts together


So what can we do

Dropping the term Nazi as applied to the BNP generally rather than some individuals who incline towards it. The term is technically wrong as the BNP owe little to hitler.

Accepting the BNP are a serious threat and not declaring their inevitable failure and decline

Reject co-operation with Searchlight a magazine with close links with the state and well known for smearing anti fascists

Closing down the BNP political space by engaging with voters legitimate concerns.

Reviving the lost art of street politics,the BNP have started this.

Properly analyse the novel BNP hybrid intermediate between continental neo-populism and classical street oriented fascism. As trevor philips of all people has said we are not dealing with the BNP and NF of the 1970's and 1980's. They dress like new labour and ape the Lib dems community campaigning.

Seize on tensions between the different factions within the party some of whom like the streetists who wish to build a movement in the streets through marching and others who wish to focus on electoralism.

Seize on the political and economic contradictions in fascism. They cannot expect to ride to horses at once indefinately ie appealing to the white working class and the middle class especially tory middle class as well. A difficult balancing act!

Most importantly formulating realistic micro social and micro economic policies for the abandoned northern towns in particular. This would involve peremptory expropriations, debt cancellations, local wealth redistribution, alternative currencies etc. The point is not to just oppose the BNP but provide an alternative. Other comrades should come forward with their ideas as well.

This situation is worrying but no need yet to panic. They are not at critical mass yet and maybe through luck, and state intervention(which is not in our interest) they may never do so but we must not waste time because time if of the essence.

[redarmyfaction38]

The BNP are the most successful fascist party this country has seen ever. The BNP under Nick griffin has remodeled the BNP to such an extent that it now has over 50 councillors in town halls across the country in parish, borough, and county councils. In the recent elections it polled nearly a million votes reaching 6.3% of the national vote up from the 2004 elections. In some areas of the country in white working class areas in particular they polled up to 20% of the vote, hardly surprising since the liberal elites hold them in utter contempt. The parties membership at the last count was around 10,000 although only about a quarter are politically active. These are worrying developments indeed, and the left needs to stop being in denial about this threat and start to analyse how to defeat this neo fascist post modernist party. We must not only fight the bourgeois capitalists and imperialists but the frankenstein monster of fascism as well.

So what are the reasons for the fascist rise.

A tory party move to the centre and a failure to connect with people from the white working class.

New labour's message to the white working class in particular, fuck off and die.

The decline of old political loyalties.

Improved BNP organisation and image especially with the use of jewish people and women in the party.

The left being complacent and in denial.

The media being complacent

Lack of credible fascist rivals

The failure of anti fascist opponents to get their acts together


So what can we do

Dropping the term Nazi as applied to the BNP generally rather than some individuals who incline towards it. The term is technically wrong as the BNP owe little to hitler.

Accepting the BNP are a serious threat and not declaring their inevitable failure and decline

Reject co-operation with Searchlight a magazine with close links with the state and well known for smearing anti fascists

Closing down the BNP political space by engaging with voters legitimate concerns.

Reviving the lost art of street politics,the BNP have started this.

Properly analyse the novel BNP hybrid intermediate between continental neo-populism and classical street oriented fascism. As trevor philips of all people has said we are not dealing with the BNP and NF of the 1970's and 1980's. They dress like new labour and ape the Lib dems community campaigning.

Seize on tensions between the different factions within the party some of whom like the streetists who wish to build a movement in the streets through marching and others who wish to focus on electoralism.

Seize on the political and economic contradictions in fascism. They cannot expect to ride to horses at once indefinately ie appealing to the white working class and the middle class especially tory middle class as well. A difficult balancing act!

Most importantly formulating realistic micro social and micro economic policies for the abandoned northern towns in particular. This would involve peremptory expropriations, debt cancellations, local wealth redistribution, alternative currencies etc. The point is not to just oppose the BNP but provide an alternative. Other comrades should come forward with their ideas as well.

This situation is worrying but no need yet to panic. They are not at critical mass yet and maybe through luck, and state intervention(which is not in our interest) they may never do so but we must not waste time because time if of the essence.
bnp owe little to hitler?
read the bnp website, read their membership rules etc. and compare it to the electoral progamme of the german national socialist party.
if you can't be bothered, join facebook and join 1million people opposed to the bnp, the front page will explain it for you.

[REDSOX]

The BNP are a neo-fascist party not a fucking nazi party. I would hope you could tell the difference. The BNP have jewish people in their party for fucks sake and have a jewish councillor called pat richardson in London i believe. Nick griffin has never been a nazi, has never been photographed in nazi regalia unlike former leader John tyndall. I have read the BNP manifesto and nowhere in that manifesto (repulsive though it is) does it blame the jews for the worlds problems let alone calling for their destruction. The BNP calls for voluntary repatriation not forced evacuation of ethnic minorities. Do you kinda get in yet Mr redarmyfaction! maybe you've been reading the Searchlight comic for too long to be able to form a rational judgement of the BNP. Grow up!!!

[teenagebricks]

The Nazis hated Jews, the BNP hate blacks, what the fuck is the difference? A what is this "voluntary repatriation" you're talking about? If you really think there would be anything voluntary about it you might as well just give them your vote. Party manifestos are not legally binding promises, they are carefully engineered pieces of propaganda.

[REDSOX]

My friend, understand this, fascism mutates, it changes and the postmodern fascist BNP has changed at least as far as their strategy is concerned. This party is not a nazi party, it is a neo fascist party and fighting it with a strategy belonging to a lefty bygone age will not work. We are dealing with a different beast here and the dead left need to adjust its strategy or it will fail. The points i have made in my original post i believe offer a better chance of at least beginning a fightback against the racist BNP. Shouting nazeeeeee scum of our streets and throwing eggs at the scum is not a satisfactory way of fighting them.

[Dr Mindbender]

what solution are you suggesting then, or are you just here to troll?

If you plan to remain on the forum, i would answer quickly because we do not suffer fools gladly here at revleft.

[REDSOX]

Mr ulster socialist i have already explained in my original post what we should do about the fash. Have you not read it yet. If not please read it again and you will see what i think we must do. My criticisms of some sections of the anti fascist left is over tactics, tactics that i believe have failed to prevent the rise of the BNP. My suggestions are constructive and are not about trolling around. Also please do not threaten me on these boards as i regard fascist and stalinist bullying with equal contempt.

[Dr Mindbender]

Mr ulster socialist i have already explained in my original post what we should do about the fash. Have you not read it yet. If not please read it again and you will see what i think we must do. My criticisms of some sections of the anti fascist left is over tactics, tactics that i believe have failed to prevent the rise of the BNP. My suggestions are constructive and are not about trolling around. Also please do not threaten me on these boards as i regard fascist and stalinist bullying with equal contempt.

I'm not threatening you at all, i'm stating a fact. If you post in a confrontational and billigerant manner you'll probably end up with a ban.

FYI i am not a stalinist, nor do i have any time for stalinists so please dont insult me.



Have you not read it yet. If not please read it again and you will see what i think we must do.

Oh, this?



Accepting the BNP are a serious threat and not declaring their inevitable failure and decline

Why would we not accept this when clearly they are the biggest threat, being the largest party in the UK on the extreme right?

The role of anti-fascists, is after all, to oppose fascists?! We won't get very far pursuing fly-by-night parties like the BPP.



Reject co-operation with Searchlight a magazine with close links with the state and well known for smearing anti fascists

As much as many members here loathe searchlight, they have been a thorn in the side of the fascists for many years so they must be doing something right.

On this i am also forced to disagree.




Closing down the BNP political space by engaging with voters legitimate concerns.

What do you think we've been doing?



Reviving the lost art of street politics,the BNP have started this.

What do you mean by 'street' politics?

[Demogorgon]

I think some people on the left are at sea completely when it comes to the BNP and how to deal with them and it can be seen in this thread where people are getting upset at some of their favourite habits being criticised.

It is true that the BNP are not a Nazi party. They are a fascist party more in the style of Oswald Mosley and ultimately owing more to Mussolini or Dolfuss than to Hitler. That isn't saying they are somehow nice people, it is just a historical fact. It troubles me somewhat that people who claim to hate fascism so much know so little about it. How can you fight something you don't understand? Fascism is a multi-headed beast that comes in many forms. The Nazi form is not a significant one in the twenty-first century, so why focus on it?

This lack of understanding leads to huge oversights as well. You have people saying things like the BNP being the largest far-right group in Britain. Well, when last I checked, the BNP won two seats in the Euro-elections, UKIP won thirteen (and of course I would wager that if you were to total up the party that had the most fascists as members it would turn out to be the Conservative Party).

But they are better at looking like nice respectable politicians so people here ignore them.:rolleyes:

[REDSOX]

Who has been posting in a confrontational manner ulster socialist? it certainly has not been me. I have made an analysis of the BNP and have suggested ways of dealing with them and you have come onto these boards implying that i am being threatening. You're tactics are quite reminiscent of the traits of stalinism and fascism in that you seek to intimidate and silence dissent. I have to tell you now that i will not be intimidated by you or anyone else on these boards.

My suggestions about the BNP and not regarding them as a threat is directed at some leftists who are forever predicting their failure.

As for the coments about Searchlight and being a thorn in the fascists side, well i would remind you ulster socialist that Searchlight have ran and fronted a campaign to stop the BNP in these elections and have utterly failed in their attempt to stop them and that is because of their failed strategy of nazi name calling and criminilisation. The BNP ran up a million votes and got 2 wankers elected to the euro parliament. Some thorn in the side eh!!

When i suggested closing down their political space my suggestion was to the unconverted not to those that already know this!!!

Reviving the lost art of street politics means going out and positively connecting with people over issues which concern them such as phone masts, refuse collection, crime and comunity issues in general. Too many(not all i might add) leftists dont do this.

Finally i want to just say this i want to start a debate about the BNP not troll, or threaten or insult anyone on these boards. I hope mr ulster socialist you can accept this and not just lash out at someone who has a contrary position to the orthodox left strategy of dealing with fascism.

[Dr Mindbender]

Who has been posting in a confrontational manner ulster socialist? it certainly has not been me. I have made an analysis of the BNP and have suggested ways of dealing with them and you have come onto these boards implying that i am being threatening.
don't put words in my mouth, i didnt accuse you of being threatening.

I find you mildly annoying if anything, but little else.



You're tactics are quite reminiscent of the traits of stalinism and fascism
in that you seek to intimidate and silence dissent.
What tactics? What fucking planet are you on?

If you get banned, its because you're an idiot. Being banned from a forum isnt equivalent to being frog marched to a gulag. Stop being so dramatic.




I have to tell you now that i will not be intimidated by you or anyone else on these boards.

Wait till i get someone from the planet ''could give a shit'' to speak to you.

I wasnt trying to intimidate you.



My suggestions about the BNP and not regarding them as a threat is directed at some leftists who are forever predicting their failure.
I don't think anyone in the left was saying that.

If the BNP ever succeeds it will be because of the shit conditions imposed by the capitalists. Not because anti fascists failed to take the correct approach, and i genuinely dont belive they are.




As for the coments about Searchlight and being a thorn in the fascists side, well i would remind you ulster socialist that Searchlight have ran and fronted a campaign to stop the BNP in these elections and have utterly failed in their attempt to stop them and that is because of their failed strategy of nazi name calling and criminilisation. The BNP ran up a million votes and got 2 wankers elected to the euro parliament. Some thorn in the side eh!!

Yes, and maybe without the UAF/Antifa/Searchlight, they would've got 3 or 4 elected!

:rolleyes:




Reviving the lost art of street politics means going out and positively connecting with people over issues which concern them such as phone masts, refuse collection, crime and comunity issues in general. Too many(not all i might add) leftists dont do this.

It is opportunism to just go out and talk about isolated bread and butter issues for the sake of it. Without linking the issues together, and educating people how these problems eminate from a single source (ie the instability of capitalism and the price system) our efforts will not be productive.



Finally i want to just say this i want to start a debate about the BNP not troll, or threaten or insult anyone on these boards. I hope mr ulster socialist you can accept this and not just lash out at someone who has a contrary position to the orthodox left strategy of dealing with fascism.

I'm not trying to lash out at you irrationally, the methods of antifascists have been tried and tested over decades and i doubt that serious activists are likely to listen to armchair pundits.

Furthermore, i'm slightly concerned at your want to convince us that we should 'ease off' the BNP, as though this is going to hamper their efforts and keep them out of parliament.

Also, stop trying to smear us all as stalinists- it is the language of the gutter media and highly ignorant. You wont win any converts here by using it.

[robbo203]

what solution are you suggesting then, or are you just here to troll?

If you plan to remain on the forum, i would answer quickly because we do not suffer fools gladly here at revleft.


Hold on here. Why are you adopting this belligerant threatening attitude. eh? (Dont say it is not because how else could you possiblly interpret "if you plan to remain on this forum"...) I dont agree with some of the things the guy says but this is not a very democratic way of doing things is it now? Jeezus what is it with some on the left? The slightest deviation from the party line becomes the pretext for heavy handed clampdowns. As far as I am concerned democracy and socialism go together. If you abandon one you abandon the other

[REDSOX]

Quite frankly Mr ulster socialist i find your attitude quite alarming. I have presented my case regarding the BNP and because it comes into conflict with your orthodox view of the BNP and how to deal with them, you start threatening me with being removed from these boards which i would suggest is indeed a tactic which is stalinistic and fascistic and is intended to stifle debate. I am entitled to present my arguments without such threats thank you as long as i dont make personal threats which i have not.

Now to deal with your main and indeed only real point regarding Searchlight.

The searchlight organisation appear to be saying and this is echoed by Ulster socialist that they were responsible for stoping the BNP advance in these elections restricting them to 2 seats. If so then why did Mr Nick lowles say before the elections that if the BNP got a seat it would be a disaster. In other words they are frantically trying to script another story to cover their failed strategy of dealing with the BNP. No amount of spin and bullshit from Searchlight can cover up their failure.

Finally ulster socialist i do not wish to ease off the BNP I wish to change strategy to defeat them thats all. I am not an armchair pundit on these matters but a commited and active anti fascist who wishes to destroy fascism.