Beware: false Marx quote

[Lamanov]

This quote is falsely attributed to Marx; it circling the internet for some time now; you've probably seen it:

"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalised, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism." (allegedly Karl Marx, Das Kapital, 1867)

This quote doesn't belong to Marx nor he would ever write something so shallow and stupid.

[Some Red Guy]

The kind of thing you see floating on Ron Paulist forums. Nobody bothers checking out marxist books themselves, and blindly accept what they are told. We should do a better job clearing up these fake quotes.

[ZeroNowhere]

Yeah, I recall that. I mean, seriously, it doesn't even sound like Marx. Unfortunately, some people debunking it also come up with bullshit, such as this:

Sounds prescient, no? One problem: McMegan investigated the quote and discovered that Marx didn't actually write it. Not only that, but he didn't say anything remotely like it. He predicted just about the exact opposite: the working classes would be forced to live in immiserated slums (not McMansions in the suburbs) until they finally rose up and overthrew their capitalist oppressors. Obviously, this is not the state of things.
Marx did initially (for example, in the 1844 manuscripts) believe that absolute poverty of the working class would increase, but he abandoned this view in around the time of 'Value, Price and Profit', and replaced it with rising relative impoverishment (compared to capital). He didn't say that this would lead to the working class being pushed into overthrowing capitalism. 'Capital' was after VPP, so yeah.

[GPDP]

I'd like to see the forums where this "quote" is circulating. Any links?

[Andrei Kuznetsov]

hahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ohgodi'mlaughing sohardican'tbreatheahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[GPDP]

Holy shit. A google search reveals around 10,600 instances of the quote.

This thing's getting out of control.

[gorillafuck]

Oh dear.....

[Pawn Power]

That's ridiculous. It is obviously not Marx (but I guess the people who it is being circulated to wouldn't know that) it is too predictive for Marx to say.

[mikelepore]

I'd like to see the forums where this "quote" is circulating. Any links?

google.com and type this into the search box, including the quotes: "the State will have to take the road"

23,200 web sites found

the exact phrase affects page count because a carriage return character on a web site will sometimes cause a non-match.

[mikelepore]

The rumor-debunking site snopes.com discusses this attribution:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/consumerdebt.asp

[JimmyJazz]

I'll see your fake Marx quote and raise you. On Stormfront they circulate this crap, even putting it in their sigs:

"The Jewish people as a whole will be its own Messiah. It will attain world domination by the dissolution of other races... and by the establishment of a world republic in which everywhere the Jews will exercise the privilege of citizenship. In this New World Order the Children of Israel... will furnish all the leaders without encountering opposition..."
--Karl Marx in a letter to Baruch Levy, quoted in Review de Paris, June 1, 1928, p. 574

:lol::lol:


Re: the nationalized banks quote, though, it is interesting that people apparently think Marx has Nostradamus-league abilities to predict the future, even if they are scared of the "predictions". I've seen many of the more simple-minded libertarian types use a real Marx quote from the Manifesto ("2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax ... 5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly ... 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form") to show that we are already at communism.

[ZeroNowhere]

Re: the nationalized banks quote, though, it is interesting that people apparently think Marx has Nostradamus-league abilities to predict the future, even if they are scared of the "predictions". I've seen many of the more simple-minded libertarian types use a real Marx quote from the Manifesto ("2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax ... 5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly ... 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form") to show that we are already at communism.Yeah, some have tried this on me, I generally just quote Engels saying that even with the implementation of the 10 planks, there would still be capitalism (from his critique of Heinzen). Generally, it works.

[#FF0000]

Yeah, some have tried this on me, I generally just quote Engels saying that even with the implementation of the 10 planks, there would still be capitalism (from his critique of Heinzen). Generally, it works.

The fact that people even talk about the 10 planks like that just proves that nobody ever, ever reads the Forewords.

[ZeroNowhere]

The fact that people even talk about the 10 planks like that just proves that nobody ever, ever reads the Forewords.Well, to be fair, there are quite a few of them. These people could just be reading one or two, or perhaps all but the two (I think?) that mention that the planks are antiquated.

[NecroCommie]

Hey guys! Look what quote I found in the bible!

"capitalism is shit, and we should kill capitalists in vast numbers" - God

Honestly, how low can someone get? That must be the cheapest shot in internet history.

[Revy]

Looks like there's another quote making the rounds as well. (http://www.google.com/search?q=The+American+people+will+never+knowingly+ adopt+socialism.+But%2C+under+the+name+of+%22Liber alism%22.........they+will+adopt+every+fragment+of +the+socialist+program%2C+until+one+day+America+wi ll+be+a+socialist+nation%2C+without+knowing+how+it +happened....+I+no+longer+need+to+run+as+a+Preside ntial+Candidate+for+the+Socialist+Party%3B+The+Dem ocratic+Party+has+adopted+our+platform)"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "Liberalism".........they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.... I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party; The Democratic Party has adopted our platform." - which is being attributed to Norman Thomas

This one is obviously fake....

Nevertheless, I do recall reading a quote by Upton Sinclair which said something similar:

"The American People will take Socialism, but they won't take the label. I certainly proved it in the case of EPIC. Running on the Socialist ticket I got 60,000 votes, and running on the slogan to 'End Poverty in California' I got 879,000. I think we simply have to recognize the fact that our enemies have succeeded in spreading the Big Lie. There is no use attacking it by a front attack, it is much better to out-flank them."

comments?

[NecroCommie]

Abandoning the word communism or socialism will risk the movement and makes it vulnerable to perversions. "ending poverty" has no documented history and no theory. Thus it is more vulnerable to abuse, albeit still theoretically capable of achieving the same. Besides the name is a matter of pride. Abandonig, or "outflanking", makes it seem as if we have something to be ashamed of, while in reality it is the word "capitalism" we should disgrace.

These moves clearly show how panicked the far right is. If they would have some real evidence to prove their point they would do it. Clearly they have nothing like it.

http://ozatheist.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/being-oppressed.jpg

This picture could quite as well demonstrate the ridiculous whining of the conservatists of modern western countries.

[Revy]

Abandoning the word communism or socialism will risk the movement and makes it vulnerable to perversions. "ending poverty" has no documented history and no theory. Thus it is more vulnerable to abuse, albeit still theoretically capable of achieving the same. Besides the name is a matter of pride. Abandonig, or "outflanking", makes it seem as if we have something to be ashamed of, while in reality it is the word "capitalism" we should disgrace.

These moves clearly show how panicked the far right is. If they would have some real evidence to prove their point they would do it. Clearly they have nothing like it.

http://ozatheist.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/being-oppressed.jpg

This picture could quite as well demonstrate the ridiculous whining of the conservatists of modern western countries.


I agree with what you've said here. The best thing to do is overcome the stigma around socialism, rather than try and run around it and become something else.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

This 'quote' was doing the rounds months ago:

http://discussion.newyouth.com/index.php/topic,2781.0.html

http://www.clockbackward.com/2009/02/04/did-karl-marx-predict-financial-collapse/

[Lamanov]

Marx did initially (for example, in the 1844 manuscripts) believe that absolute poverty of the working class would increase, but he abandoned this view in around the time of 'Value, Price and Profit', and replaced it with rising relative impoverishment (compared to capital). He didn't say that this would lead to the working class being pushed into overthrowing capitalism. 'Capital' was after VPP, so yeah.

Actually, he said the same thing in the Manuscripts. He wrote that when absolute poverty decreases, relative poverty will thus increase.

[hammer and sickle]

This isnt the only one either Ive seen lots of fake quotes on the internet not just for him but Ive seen made up ones for Stalin and Trotsky to. "Death solves all problems - no man, no problem -Stalin" This quote comes from a book by Anatoly Rybakov! If you google that quote you can find craploads of sites saying its a Stalin quote to! Alot of the quotes you can find by famous Communist leaders on sites like "Brainyquote" or "Thinkexist" are altered or just plain made up!