What the hell is post-left anarchism?

[9]

I've been hearing the term "post-left anarchism" a lot lately. I was given a pamphlet the other day, I can't recall the title, which was covered with quotes by someone named "Bob Black". Unfortunately, I left it on the bus before I got the chance to read it. So I looked him up online to find he is an advocate of "post-left anarchism". In attempting to understand what the hell post-left anarchism means, I've been looking it up online, and I have yet to find any concrete ideology behind it - just blanket criticism of left-anarchism without offering any alternative. So does anyone on here understand the theory behind it, assuming there is any theory behind it at all?

[Bright Banana Beard]

Short word: Reformist Anarchist. They think revolution will not help the cause.

[The Feral Underclass]

Short word: Reformist Anarchist. They think revolution will not help the cause.

Not necessarily.

Post-left anarchyism is more characterised as a contemporary form of anarchism that rejects class as an integral or pivotal aspect of its belief system. Post-left anarchy is often associated with lifestyle anarchist politics and to some extent can have evolutionary ideas of change.

[h0m0revolutionary]

Yeah as above. Except i'd add that post-left comes outside of typical anarchism in that it rejects what it views as Marxist infiltration into libertarianiam. They view all leftist ideologies as archaic and in need of revitalisation - they believe they have the remedy.

They reject traditional leftist tactics which attempt to engage in class struggle such as workplace and community agitation, demonstrations and direct action.

Instead these self-proclaimed radicals see setting up facebook groups, eating quorn and talking about how great it would be if there wasn't a government as their preferred form of, ahem, activism.

Crimethinc (US) is about as close as you get to this form of lifestylist, elitist and pseudo libertarian ideology.

[9]

Yeah as above. Except i'd add that post-left comes outside of typical anarchism in that it rejects what it views as Marxist infiltration into libertarianiam. They view all leftist ideologies as archaic and in need of revitalisation - they believe they have the remedy.

They reject traditional leftist tactics which attempt to engage in class struggle such as workplace and community agitation, demonstrations and direct action.

Haha, yeah this is about what I've gotten out of it, which still tells me nothing. But I'm realizing that it tells me nothing because there is nothing to tell, which is hilarious... an ideology based on criticizing other ideologies while offering nothing as an alternative - that's got to take the cake for futility. I can literally find nothing in terms of the "post-left anarchist" economic position, again (and perhaps I am wrong), because it seems there is no economic position.. yeeeah, that's some remedy, economic nihilism.

[9]

Instead these self-proclaimed radicals see setting up facebook groups, eating quorn and talking about how great it would be if there wasn't a government as their preferred form of, ahem, activism.
P.S.
Irrelevant as it is, I have to ask... what is quorn?

[The Feral Underclass]

It's a meat substitute: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn

[9]

It's a meat substitute: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn
I see.

[Bud Struggle]

They reject traditional leftist tactics which attempt to engage in class struggle such as workplace and community agitation, demonstrations and direct action.


From what I see of the Crimethinc website--these people seem to be Anarchist without Communism. It kind of makes them a bit hollow inside. More hippie than anything else.

[Jack]

Bob Black is a snitch and an idiot, the only good thing to ever have come out of him is his essay, The Libertarian As Conservative: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5065/libcon.html

Basically a criticism of the US based pseudo-libertarians. Essentially post lefties have come to dominate Infoshop.org, to the point where I have abandonded the site entirely due to the idiocy.

This is Black's most famous "work", The Abolition of Work: http://www.primitivism.com/abolition.htm

All I can say is it's worth reading to understand their position, but there's only about 2 sentences of value in the entire thing. I can garuntee all post lefties are middle class, petit bourgeois, or bourgeois teenagers.

[trivas7]

[...] an ideology based on criticizing other ideologies while offering nothing as an alternative - that's got to take the cake for futility.
This frankly summarizes all anarchist ideology.

[9]

Bob Black is a snitch and an idiot, the only good thing to ever have come out of him is his essay, The Libertarian As Conservative: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5065/libcon.html

Basically a criticism of the US based pseudo-libertarians. Essentially post lefties have come to dominate Infoshop.org, to the point where I have abandonded the site entirely due to the idiocy.

This is Black's most famous "work", The Abolition of Work: http://www.primitivism.com/abolition.htm

All I can say is it's worth reading to understand their position, but there's only about 2 sentences of value in the entire thing. I can garuntee all post lefties are middle class, petit bourgeois, or bourgeois teenagers.

I still don't get it. I just read his whole essay or speech or whatever it was on right-Libertarians, which is all fine and good and I'm inclined to agree with most of his points there (just as, I'm sure, Paul-tards are inclined to agree with most of his criticisms of left-libertarians), but the closest thing to an ideology I can squeeze from it is some sort of anarcho-primitivism. I give up.

[Jack]

I still don't get it. I just read his whole essay or speech or whatever it was on right-Libertarians, which is all fine and good and I'm inclined to agree with most of his points there (just as, I'm sure, Paul-tards are inclined to agree with most of his criticisms of left-libertarians), but the closest thing to an ideology I can squeeze from it is some sort of anarcho-primitivism. I give up.

It's easy to sum up:

If it's contructive, it's bad.

Work sucks

"Would you hate your best friend if they won the lottery because they would be rich"? (total disregard for class)

Organization isn't anarchist.

[The Feral Underclass]

This frankly summarizes all anarchist ideology.

I'm quite happy to offer you an alternative and indeed point you in the direction of the countless books written on the subject.

Either that or you could employ the google search engine and type in the word "anarchism", that will probably do the trick.

[More Fire for the People]

Post-left anarchists are post-modern anarchists. From post-modernism, they take the idea that all ideologies are oppressive and/or obsolete. They are anarchists in the sense that they reject hierarchies. They don't have a set group of ideas. Instead, they are an association of people who loosely adhere to the above ideas.

[9]

It's easy to sum up:

If it's contructive, it's bad.

Work sucks

"Would you hate your best friend if they won the lottery because they would be rich"? (total disregard for class)

Organization isn't anarchist.

Oy vey iz mir.

[trivas7]

I'm quite happy to offer you an alternative and indeed point you in the direction of the countless books written on the subject.

Either that or you could employ the google search engine and type in the word "anarchism", that will probably do the trick.
The major difficulty in any analysis of anarchism is that the term covers extremely conflicting doctrines. The root of the word comes from the term anarche, meaning opposition to authority or commands. My point is that this is broad enough to cover a host of different political doctrines.

[nerditarian]

From what I see of the Crimethinc website--these people seem to be Anarchist without Communism. It kind of makes them a bit hollow inside. More hippie than anything else.

Why is anarchism hollow without communism? Plenty of anarchists would not fit the the word communist as commonly used. There's Thoreau, Proudhon, Warren, Tucker, Spooner, Voltairyne de Cleyre, and legions of their followers. Who are you to ship them off the proverbial ideological gulag? :p (excuse the pun my red friends)

[Nwoye]

Why is anarchism hollow without communism? Plenty of anarchists would not fit the the word communist as commonly used. There's Thoreau, Proudhon, Warren, Tucker, Spooner, Voltairyne de Cleyre, and legions of their followers. Who are you to ship them off the proverbial ideological gulag? :p (excuse the pun my red friends)
moar invasion form austrians.

[nerditarian]

I still don't get it. I just read his whole essay or speech or whatever it was on right-Libertarians, which is all fine and good and I'm inclined to agree with most of his points there (just as, I'm sure, Paul-tards are inclined to agree with most of his criticisms of left-libertarians), but the closest thing to an ideology I can squeeze from it is some sort of anarcho-primitivism. I give up.
Dear Dirty Rotten Pinko Commie,

Out of sheer intellectual curiosity, would you apply the term "Paul-tard" to (right-)libertarians who strictly follow Ron Paul alone or also to Anarcho-Capitalists who supported his campaign out of a wish to propagandize the cause?

I'll be much obliged to hear your response,

Nerditarian

[DIzzIE]

Haha, yeah this is about what I've gotten out of it, which still tells me nothing. But I'm realizing that it tells me nothing because there is nothing to tell, which is hilarious... an ideology based on criticizing other ideologies while offering nothing as an alternative - that's got to take the cake for futility. I can literally find nothing in terms of the "post-left anarchist" economic position, again (and perhaps I am wrong), because it seems there is no economic position.. yeeeah, that's some remedy, economic nihilism.

Gotten out of what, exactly?

You don't appear to have actually read anything other than that irrelevant link (to the topic at hand) the idiot Jack posted, but are sure lapping up the ad-hominem attacks the idiots here are throwing (hai2u Jack, see how you're not the only one who can play the ad-hom game, idiot).

I'm not about to start spoon-feeding you excerpts from shit if you're incapable of reading them on your own, ("What I really want to see is work turned into play...", "Develop american samizdat network, replace outdated publishing/propaganda tactics", but my bad I said I wouldn't do that)

Here are a couple more (http://deoxy.org/meme/Post-Anarchism_Anarchy) fun links that you will never read (http://infoshop.org/page/Anarchy-After-Leftism), awesome!

And lol, if words are too hard to read, here's a perty comic book for you:

https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4956402/Bob.Black.-.The.Abolition.of.Work.Comic.Book.Version

[9]

Hah, and the post-left anarchists starts slithering out of the woodwork.

[9]

Dear Dirty Rotten Pinko Commie,

Out of sheer intellectual curiosity, would you apply the term "Paul-tard" to (right-)libertarians who strictly follow Ron Paul alone or also to Anarcho-Capitalists who supported his campaign out of a wish to propagandize the cause?

I'll be much obliged to hear your response,

Nerditarian

I tend to apply the term "Paul-tard" to all right-"Libertarians" (or, more aptly, private authoritarians).

[The Feral Underclass]

The major difficulty in any analysis of anarchism is that the term covers extremely conflicting doctrines.

No more conflicting that the term Marxism. People have various interpretations of anarchism, that can be problematic, but it doesn't prove that anarchism does not offer alternatives...


The root of the word comes from the term anarche, meaning opposition to authority or commands.

No it doesn't. The Greek word anarchía actually means "without ruler".


My point is that this is broad enough to cover a host of different political doctrines.

That wasn't your point at all! Your point was the anarchism doesn't offer alternatives.

[Jack]

Why is anarchism hollow without communism? Plenty of anarchists would not fit the the word communist as commonly used. There's Thoreau, Proudhon, Warren, Tucker, Spooner, Voltairyne de Cleyre, and legions of their followers. Who are you to ship them off the proverbial ideological gulag? :p (excuse the pun my red friends)

What followers and where are they? From what I've seen they tend to be just found on the internet, and completely irrelavent.

Meanwhile we communist anarchists have organizations, newspapers, and history as more than just a philisophical movement. The only thing non communist anarchism has ever been is an individual's ideology and philosophy, not a movement and never important.

[Jack]

Dear Dirty Rotten Pinko Commie,

Out of sheer intellectual curiosity, would you apply the term "Paul-tard" to (right-)libertarians who strictly follow Ron Paul alone or also to Anarcho-Capitalists who supported his campaign out of a wish to propagandize the cause?

I'll be much obliged to hear your response,

Nerditarian

Self proclaimed anarchists supporting politicians? No wonder we don't take you seriously, this is another reason why you are not anarchists.

Paultard refers to all you pseudo-libertarians.

[Jack]

Gotten out of what, exactly?

You don't appear to have actually read anything other than that irrelevant link (to the topic at hand) the idiot Jack posted, but are sure lapping up the ad-hominem attacks the idiots here are throwing (hai2u Jack, see how you're not the only one who can play the ad-hom game, idiot).

I'm not about to start spoon-feeding you excerpts from shit if you're incapable of reading them on your own, ("What I really want to see is work turned into play...", "Develop american samizdat network, replace outdated publishing/propaganda tactics", but my bad I said I wouldn't do that)

Here are a couple more (http://deoxy.org/meme/Post-Anarchism_Anarchy) fun links that you will never read (http://infoshop.org/page/Anarchy-After-Leftism), awesome!

And lol, if words are too hard to read, here's a perty comic book for you:

https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4956402/Bob.Black.-.The.Abolition.of.Work.Comic.Book.Version

When did I use an ad-hominem, I didn't attack anyone specifically, I said your "ideology" is bullshit and you are probably under the age of 21, as are most of your buddies.

[nerditarian]

What followers and where are they? From what I've seen they tend to be just found on the internet, and completely irrelavent.

Meanwhile we communist anarchists have organizations, newspapers, and history as more than just a philisophical movement. The only thing non communist anarchism has ever been is an individual's ideology and philosophy, not a movement and never important.

Because it was smaller than communist anarchism it's wrong?

The same argument could be used against communist anarchists by State communists: because it has much less followers and much less historical influence it doesn't count.

Let's belittle it and launch our hate at it.

[Jack]

Because it was smaller than communist anarchism it's wrong?

The same argument could be used against communist anarchists by State communists: because it has much less followers and much less historical influence it doesn't count.

Let's belittle it and launch our hate at it.

No, my point was that it has never had any support from anyone but a few scattered petite bourgeoise and middle class people, most modern ones discovering that crap from the internet.

It doesn't count, because nobody cares about it. The Church of The SubGenious is more influencial than non-communist anarchism ever was or ever will be.

[nerditarian]

No, my point was that it has never had any support from anyone but a few scattered petite bourgeoise and middle class people, most modern ones discovering that crap from the internet.

It doesn't count, because nobody cares about it. The Church of The SubGenious is more influencial than non-communist anarchism ever was or ever will be.

Buddy, stop with the bourgeoise crap. How do you know that I'm not less middle class than you?

First of all, some of those were non-communist socialist anarchists.

Of course individualist anarchism has not been consistently expounded till recently. As a complete belief system it's new. Thoreau never went into what kind of system would result if everyone practiced disobedience. Give it time. More people than either of us can imagine will be reading Rothbard long after anyone knows who the hell any of your crummy communist idols were.

[Jack]

Buddy, stop with the bourgeoise crap. How do you know that I'm not less middle class than you?

First of all, some of those were non-communist socialist anarchists.

Of course individualist anarchism has not been consistently expounded till recently. As a complete belief system it's new. Thoreau never went into what kind of system would result if everyone practiced disobedience. Give it time. More people than either of us can imagine will be reading Rothbard long after anyone knows who the hell any of your crummy communist idols were.

HA!

Oh shit cappie, that's a good one. So tell me, what did Rothbard do that was remarkable besides sit on his fat petite bourgeois ass and write? Maybe do a few speeches in front of 15 of your buddies? Well, he's rotting in the ground now and noone outside the Mises cult cares.

Except, you forget yourself, we have a movement you have bullshit. Lets see where there's anarchist organizations:

USA, Canada, UK, Mexico, Guatemala, Niguragua, Honduras, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Belize, Peru, Columbia, Brazil, Uruguay, Paruruguay, Argentina, Chile, Suriname, Guiana, French Guiana, Spain, France, Portugal, Germany, Italy, San Marino, Ireland, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Russia, Poland, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herizgovina, Macedonia, Greece, Albania, Turkey, Ukraine, Romania, Moldolva, Switzerland, Denmark, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Georgia, Armenia, Cyprus, Iceland, South Africa, Zamibia, Ghana, Syria, Lebanon, Israel/Palestine, Indonesia, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, India, and even more.

Non communist anarchist groups are found in:

Oh shit.....

[DIzzIE]

When did I use an ad-hominem, I didn't attack anyone specifically, I said your "ideology" is bullshit and you are probably under the age of 21, as are most of your buddies.

Oh really? Then what's this (http://www.revleft.com/vb/hell-post-left-t110846/index.html?p=1464835#post1464835):


Bob Black is a snitch and an idiot

No seriously; how do you reconcile these two quotes of yours?

And what's this about my ideology or my age? Do quote where I've revealed either.

So let's recap: you went from spewing vitriolic ad-hominem attacks, to outright lying, to making speculative assumptions, and finally to ageist remarks. Can't wait to see what you have in store next, keep up the tip top work idiot!

[Jack]

Yeah, I didn't attack you specifically, and fuck Bob Black, I don't really care what you have to say about it. Don't you have to go *****, moan and not do anything for a while, champ?

[DIzzIE]

You seem confused, so I'll keep quoting you again:

Your statement was (http://www.revleft.com/vb/hell-post-left-t110846/index.html?p=1468750#post1468750):


When did I use an ad-hominem, I didn't attack anyone specifically

I then pointed out that you said (http://www.revleft.com/vb/hell-post-left-t110846/index.html?p=1464835#post1464835):


Bob Black is a snitch and an idiot

So I will now ask again: how do you reconcile these two statements?

And now you reply with a seeming non-sequitor (http://www.revleft.com/vb/hell-post-left-t110846/index.html?p=1468981#post1468981):


Yeah, I didn't attack you specifically

...which seems to suggest that you're implying that I said you attacked me specifically, or what the fuck? Why did you write just write that? Do you not understand what the basic words you use like "anyone" versus "you" mean? Do you then not comprehend that the statement you made "I didn't attack anyone specifically" has nothing to do with "I didn't attack you specifically"?

What the fuck is going on here man?

[Rosa Provokateur]

From what I see of the Crimethinc website--these people seem to be Anarchist without Communism. It kind of makes them a bit hollow inside. More hippie than anything else.

Bollocks! Crimethinc has gotta be one of the most creative groups on the anarchist scene today. They're straight-forwars, thought-provoking, and sometimes even funny. If this is the product of post-Left anarchism then I support it :tt2:

[9]

Bollocks! Crimethinc has gotta be one of the most creative groups on the anarchist scene today. They're straight-forwars, thought-provoking, and sometimes even funny. If this is the product of post-Left anarchism then I support it :tt2:

But what is their economic philosophy? It is fine and good to be creative, but if they are espousing a brand of "anarchism" that is detached from any economic theory, I don't see the point...

[nerditarian]

But what is their economic philosophy? It is fine and good to be creative, but if they are espousing a brand of "anarchism" that is detached from any economic theory, I don't see the point...

Why can't there be anarchy without objectives?

[Jack]

Why can't there be anarchy without objectives?

Because there can't be a movement without objectives.


Forward comrades to glorious.......eh fuck it.

[Rosa Provokateur]

Why can't there be anarchy without objectives?

I think you mean anarchy without adjectives.

[Rosa Provokateur]

But what is their economic philosophy? It is fine and good to be creative, but if they are espousing a brand of "anarchism" that is detached from any economic theory, I don't see the point...

"Crimethought is not any ideology or value system or lifestyle, but rather a way of challenging all ideologies and value systems and lifestyles—and, for the advanced agent, a way of making all ideologies, value systems, and lifestyles challenging."

http://www.crimethinc.com/texts/pastfeatures/purged.php (http://www.crimethinc.com/texts/pastfeatures/purged.php)