On the Iranian Uprising

[Led Zeppelin]

I wrote this up while being really tired and sleep-deprived, so I apologize for any grammatical errors. Also, sorry for it being a pretty short piece but I can't find the time or energy for something longer at the moment.



Mousavi and Ahmadinejad; Two Sides of the Same Coin

A demonstration was held today at the Iranian embassy in The Hague, the Netherlands. I arrived at the embassy seeing large crowds as I approached. At first I thought they were the ones demonstrating, but I couldn’t spot any familiar faces in the crowds. It also struck me as odd that these people were standing in line…oh that’s right; these were the people who were going to vote.

Up the street from the embassy, about one hundred meters away from the embassy, the demonstrators had set up camp. Well, set up camp sounds a bit odd. Let’s just be honest and call it what it was; an improvised cage set up by the police wherein they were forced to stay. The demonstrators were far fewer in numbers than the voters. It seems that the “refugees” of the Netherlands have forgotten why they became refugees in the first place, or maybe when you have some extra cash in your pocket those ugly memories are easily forgotten…

What struck me as odd was the incredible lengths the police went to defend the voters while intimidating, harassing, and just generally annoying the protestors. When voters walked down the street from the embassy to get to their cars, mostly modern luxury cars I might add, they exchanged friendly chitter chatter with the policemen and women. When we chanted something or held up a sign which they found “shocking”, couldn’t understand (either because it was written in Farsi or because they were too stupid), or didn’t like, they forced us to stop doing whatever we were doing or else we’d be arrested for “disturbing public order”.

Yes! Trust the police to ensure the safety of public order! They, the ones who arrest innocent people for protesting a dictatorial regime (which their own government ironically also considers to be a dictatorship, officially anyway), are the ones who are ensuring the safety of the public order. No, I think it’s the other way around. I think the people who are protesting and demonstrating for freedom, for justice and for democracy are the ones who are ensuring the safety of public order.

All in all 7 protestors of justice, freedom and democracy were hauled away. In a society which claims to be democratic and claims to uphold freedom of speech, they were the ones who adhered to it, while the police, the institution supposedly maintained to ensure these rights, opposed it.
Then comes the Iranian elections. Who will win or who will lose? That is not really the question here, however much the media may say that it is. No, the question is; does it matter who will win or lose? When we analyze the politics of these two “democratic” candidates, we can see the striking similarities. Mousavi, a former prime-minister, has the blood of 4000 people on his hands. He personally ordered their execution. Ahmadinejad has presided over a government which has arrested, tortured and executed many unionists and workers for standing up against him.

In a nation where such a thing is a crime, any type of election is a farce. The people who still buy into it are deluded, but soon their delusion will be brought to light. If Mousavi wins, they’ll see that he’s no better than Ahmadinejad (they seem to have forgotten this before, at least the previous generation has, perhaps this new generation will do something more radical when they have learned this lesson), if Ahmadinejad wins, the hopes of the delusional group, which number in the millions, will be turned into anger and despair. Anger is one requirement for the emergence of a strong movement against the current system. Despair can lead it astray. But the ones who despair at their disposition will find the courage to fight against it, and change it, for it is the only solution to their life-or-death problem.

[Wanted Man]

Right on the money.

By the way, how are the 7 demonstrators who were arrested doing?

[Led Zeppelin]

By the way, how are the 7 demonstrators who were arrested doing?

They were freed at the 6 hour limit, though one was held overnight I believe because he put his hand on the arm of an officer when she was arresting his father for refusing to get in the cage after another comrade had just been arrested for "arguing too loudly" with someone else in the cage, a monarchist.

Apparently the police can also dictate to us what the volume and nature of our conversations must be, all in order to ensure the "safety of public order", of course.

[Led Zeppelin]

I just wrote this piece to put the current events in context, it's the first part of a series I'll write while the events are unfolding:



The Elections in Iran and the Lessons to be Learned


1. The Context of Recent Events

It seems that what we predicted yesterday during the voting process has come true, though one did not have to be an expert in politics to know what would happen if Ahmadinejad won. However they did have to know something about Iranian politics and history to analyze the situation properly. And they do have to know something about Marxism to analyze the situation really properly, that is, in a way that unveils the powers that are behind everything that’s happening on the surface. By powers we are referring to social groups and classes, since Marxism is an analysis of social relations, and these relations are the determining factor in such events.

The most important factor in Iran today is the economy, just as it is the most important factor throughout the world. The unemployment rate in Iran is growing and the number of youths who are entering the labor market is growing as well. The relatively young age of the Iranian population means that there is a great section of society with a bleak future ahead of it. Capitalism is able to sustain itself through a great variety of means, one of which is the promise of a better future. The myth of “the American dream” is not only limited to America, it’s a capitalist phenomenon and it’s essential to the preservation of the system, for it has a numbing effect on class-consciousness. One could say that this dream of a capitalist “classless society”, a society in which you can jump from one class or strata to the other as long as you work hard enough, has replaced the role of religion as the opium of the masses. Sadly in Iran religion is also still a factor of great importance, so we have an especially strong type of opiate to deal with.

Events of recent times however have shown that this is changing, and it is changing rapidly. Even before this whole election game was started (for that is what it essentially is, a game put up for the amusement of the people, to deceive and stifle their democratic aspirations) the workers’ movement in Iran was growing and becoming more active. The rallies on the first of May, the international day of labor, were the clearest sign of this rise. Not only did the workers call for a stance against imperialism, but also for better working conditions, higher wages, for action to be taken against the rising unemployment, etc. Immediate demands, the minimum programme of socialism, is already accepted spontaneously by the most advanced section of the working-class. This is no surprise given the fact that these immediate demands are a natural response to the economic crisis.

One key problem persists. A minimum programme with immediate demands accepted by the workers can lead them to supporting the maximum programme, that is, socialism. But where is the organization or party to lead them this way, many so-called Marxists are asking themselves while scratching their heads. This organization or party does not yet exist, or so it seems to them because they do not know anything about what is happening on the streets of Tehran, Shiraz, Tabriz, Mashhad or Esfahan. There is no doubt that there are class-conscious workers and students who are actively participating in the workers’ movement of Iran. It is true that the bourgeois media has not yet written about them or given them much attention, but we do not believe what is happening based on what the exploiters and their media outlets are telling us, we believe what is happening based on reality.

[Led Zeppelin]

Here is the second part:


2. The Nature of the People’s Movement and why we Support It

Whenever historic changes take place they take place at a tremendous speed. Especially revolutions are known for changing society and the consciousness of people rapidly over the course of days and sometimes even hours. The events in Iran have again proved this to be true. Friday the elections happened and no one imagined a possible uprising no matter what the outcome would be. I knew that there would be anger and despair, but I didn’t think it could grow into an actual movement of opposition of millions. The economy undoubtedly was a major factor in this development.

However several criticisms and issues have been raised of this movement. People from all over the world and all over the political spectrum have given their opinions, and unsurprisingly a lot of reactionary garbage is to be found all over the place. Some self-proclaimed leftists from the west (since no leftist in Iran would even think to proclaim the same kind of nonsense) have called the uprising an “exclusively student movement”, a “movement of neo-liberalism and free-market reformism”, and some have even claimed that the CIA had a hand in it.

One such “leftist” (if these people are left-wing who needs right-wingers?) said:

“The reality is that the social base of Anmadinejad's [sic] voters is overwhelmingly working class, and they mobilized to keep him in his spot because it was in their self-perceived class interest to barricade in and not allow Mousavi to successfully "reform" (carry out a neoliberal attack on jobs, price caps, social programs) the entire country.”

The vast majority of Ahmadinejad voters were overwhelmingly working-class! They were so working-class that millions of them decided to demonstrate against the person they had just voted for overwhelmingly. It is typical of a person who does not know anything about Iran to say such idiotic things, for they imagine that the people in Iran must be happy with the way things are being run there. I mean, they have pretty decent healthcare right? They have all the oil and gas in the world, and apparently the labor market is doing just fine, with the hundreds of thousands of unemployed not being taken into account, that is.

This is the Big Lie going around in the heads of these people about Iran. When they watch the country being slandered and vilified by mainstream media they get a type of reflex to support anything about the Iranian state, from its reactionary political system to its mass arrests and public executions of people, who are so free and happy with the state of their nation that they just couldn’t help risk their lives destroying it.

The facts are different. Events in Iran over the past few days have shown them to be different, though these types of people won’t be convinced by anything. They would rather attack people’s movements from their ivory tower in the west than contribute anything constructive to it. Yes, we do not have any illusions about it, we do not believe that this movement as it currently exists is a revolutionary socialist one, but we do not slander it or repeat the lies about it that are being spread by the official Iranian propaganda machine. And we certainly do not support the suppression of it, thereby putting ourselves on the side of reaction.

“But we are the opposite of that!” These people cry without shame. “We are only believing and repeating these lies because we are anti-imperialists!” Does anti-imperialism excuse this behavior? Does it even have anything to do with it? Yes, anti-imperialism, all of us on the left agree with this, but anti-imperialism does not equal pro-Islamism or pro-Iranian despotism. The reason we oppose imperialism is because we oppose the oppression of people that is caused by it. It is absurd to oppose imperialism on this basis internationally, but not oppose it on the same basis nationally.

A great socialist once said:

“With regard to the more backward states and nations, in which feudal or patriarchal and patriarchal-peasant relations predominate, it is particularly important to bear in mind the need to combat Pan-Islamism and similar trends, which strive to combine the liberation movement against European and American imperialism with an attempt to strengthen the positions of the khans, landowners, mullahs, etc.”

Ironically it is not only the Mullahs who are striving to combine the liberation movement against imperialism with an attempt to strengthen their position (both Mousavi and Ahmadinejad have done this, using it against each other, and Khamenei thrives on it), but some western leftists as well.

As I said before, we should not have any illusions about the people’s movement as it currently exists. The current movement is limited and tied to Mousavi. The current movement is not yet class-conscious. The current movement has not yet drawn towards itself the mass of the entire people. The current movement is not yet lead by the advanced and class-conscious section of the working-class. These are all the real problems with the current movement. These are the problems we should be addressing, and these are the problems that will decide the fate of the movement.

There is no doubt that the movement is progressing and that it is by itself dealing with these problems. Friday, before any such movement existed, there were hardly any chants that were anti-government. Saturday, the first mass demonstrations chanted “Death to the dictator!” but equally they chanted for Mousavi. Sunday the latter sentiment was toned down a bit, while the former increased due to Mousavi’s call for restraint. Monday, the reverse happened due to Mousavi’s renewed calls for a re-election. Tuesday again Mousavi’s side grew given his increasing opposition. What can we deduce from this? Mousavi is clearly being pulled to the opposition side under pressure of the people’s movement. He’s bending but soon enough he will break. There is only so far you can bend as a supporter of the Iranian state when calls are being made for its overthrowing.

It is however important to remember the dynamic of these events. Daily it can change from one side to the other. One day we can be disillusioned while the next we are being overly optimistic. We must not lose our heads by these changes. We must stay firm on our demands, and we must continue to analyze the movement and try to influence it towards independence. Only when the people’s movement has cut off Mousavi and has found strength in its own leadership, then it can proceed to the next step. This pre-revolutionary situation will then become a revolutionary one, which will smash the despotic Iranian state and replace it with a democratic one, for when despotism falls freedom, equality, and liberation from all oppression and exploitation takes its place.

There are now two sections of Iranian society in opposition to one another. One which is essentially fighting for change, and is in a majority (comprised of the most advanced section of the working-class, students and intelligentsia), and the other which is fighting for conservation of the old rotten regime (comprised of the most backward elements of society, clerics, government officials, religious militias, well to do peasants and others who are in direct pay of the dictatorship). In between these two groups is the rest of Iranian society. They must take sides between the two, and their actions will define the nature of this movement as it develops over the next few days and weeks.

The most efficient way of having them on the side of revolution is to be united for revolution ourselves. Our calls for freedom, equality, democracy and justice need to be united in ourselves instead of in a member of the ruling system. They will do nothing but fool us again like they did 30 years ago, and generations upon generations will suffer under it. Throw off the shackles of Mousavi and unite with the call that you have shouted so many times now in the heroic demonstrations of the past few days: “Don’t be afraid, we are united!”

http://riseoftheiranianpeople.wordpress.com/2009/06/17/the-uprising-in-iran-and-the-lessons-to-be-learned-2-the-nature-of-the-peoples-movement-and-why-we-support-it/

[Led Zeppelin]

Here is another one, it will be sent out in Farsi soon:


The People Must be Armed to Defend Themselves!

It is clear now that the government won’t let Iranians demonstrate in peace. We call for freedom, democracy, equality and justice, and what do they do? They shoot at us. They kill our young men and women who have done nothing wrong except stand up for what they believe in. These courageous and heroic people who have given their lives for freedom will never be forgotten. Their families will not forget them, but neither will we! We have vowed to continue our struggle until we have attained a truly democratic and free political system, but whenever we go out to protest for this they beat us and shoot us. There is only one option left for us to do when we go out to fight for our human rights; We must be armed to defend ourselves!

If the dictatorship will not accept our calls for its death, and instead decides to kill us for our struggle, then we will do what is necessary to defend ourselves. We must make sure to be armed and prepared for any attacks they have prepared for us. Thousands of us have been captured by the disgusting secret police forces, the Basij and other state sponsored terrorists. They are now languishing in prisons like Evin all over the country. There they are being tortured and slowly killed. Imagine the pain they must be in! Imagine what they will do to us when they capture us! We must fight against this with all our might.

We have not chosen this path. The enemies of democracy have chosen it for us. They have decided that blood needs to be spilled, and our blood has been spilled for the past few days. This has gone on long enough. If they want blood to spill, then we shall make sure to spill theirs too!

There are undoubtedly people in the army and police who are sympathetic to our cause and who even want to take our side. Them we will respect and work with. We are calling on them to join us in this struggle. We will not shoot first and ask questions later like the Basij and other state-terorrists are doing now. But we will shoot at anyone who shoots at us first.

We must get weapons from wherever we can. If you have some old weapons lying at home, take them with you to a secure place where they can all be gathered. There you can stockpile as many of them as you can find. They can be used to attack armories and other storage places for weapons. We will use those to do the same until we have enough weapons to create our own police, our own militia, and eventually our own army!

But we will not be like the state terrorists. We will use our weapons to make sure that democracy is established, and that no one harms us for wanting to create such a society. When we chant death to the dictator, we mean it. And when we are armed, you will no longer dare stop us or our movement from saying that!

For everyone who has been martyred in the struggle since Friday, let’s arm ourselves!

Note: This message will be written in Farsi soon and sent to as many people in Iran as possible. The people must defend themselves from attacks. You have seen the videos and pictures of our young being killed without reason. This must be stopped, and only we can stop it when we are armed!

http://riseoftheiranianpeople.wordpress.com/2009/06/17/the-people-must-be-armed-to-defend-themselves/

[The Feral Underclass]

I'm not being combative, but can it really be characterised as an uprising?

[Led Zeppelin]

I'm not being combative, but can it really be characterised as an uprising?

Eh, what? How can it not?

Have you not seen the videos or pictures, or read anything about what's been going on?

[The Feral Underclass]

I read the limited and biased British media and as far as I can tell there are mass demonstrations being put down by a belligerent state in panic. I wasn't aware that it was particularly organised or that people were in an open state of revolt against the government and Ayatollah's. In fact, as far as I can see they're wanting a change in President no?

But I'm happy to be wrong.

[Led Zeppelin]

I read the limited and biased British media and as far as I can tell there are mass demonstrations being put down by a belligerent state in panic. I wasn't aware that it was particularly organised or that people were in an open state of revolt against the government and Ayatollah's. In fact, as far as I can see they're wanting a change in President no?

But I'm happy to be wrong.

They are in a open state of revolt against the system. Their leader for the time being is Mousavi, yes, but that does not mean that he will be their leader forever. In fact that position has been slipping away from him in the past days, especially Sunday (he regained a bit of leverage afterwards but that is fading as well).

If you read some of the demands and slogans they are using: http://riseoftheiranianpeople.wordpress.com/demands/

You can see that it is not only aimed at a change of president. There are other elements in there who are calling for a radicalization of this movement, which is an uprising.

I mean, watch the videos here: http://www.youtube.com/riseofiran

Look on youtube for videos of police shooting and beating people en masse. Thousands have been arrested and hundreds killed. If this does not fit the definition of an uprising then I honestly don't know what does.

An uprising isn't the same as a socialist revolution though, and I never said it was. But I have said and will keep saying that that is what it must become. The people must take their future into their own hands.

Also keep in mind that this is the first time in 30 years that something like this has happened in Iran. For 30 years the despotic dictatorship quelled all forms of resistance, now they are all coming out in open opposition to it, defying government bans and risking their lives.

I'm tired now, I have been writing all day and updating stuff, so forgive my hurried reply. Read the articles I wrote above for more clarification.

Oh and stop watching BBC, they are reporting crap. Check youtube for videos and follow this site: http://riseoftheiranianpeople.wordpress.com/

[( R )evolution]

Here is the second part:


This is the Big Lie going around in the heads of these people about Iran. When they watch the country being slandered and vilified by mainstream media they get a type of reflex to support anything about the Iranian state, from its reactionary political system to its mass arrests and public executions of people, who are so free and happy with the state of their nation that they just couldn’t help risk their lives destroying it.




“But we are the opposite of that!” These people cry without shame. “We are only believing and repeating these lies because we are anti-imperialists!” Does anti-imperialism excuse this behavior? Does it even have anything to do with it? Yes, anti-imperialism, all of us on the left agree with this, but anti-imperialism does not equal pro-Islamism or pro-Iranian despotism. The reason we oppose imperialism is because we oppose the oppression of people that is caused by it. It is absurd to oppose imperialism on this basis internationally, but not oppose it on the same basis nationally.

This has been a rampant problem amongst leftist. Just because the West has spoken out against Iran does not mean that we should support Iran's backward oppressive regime. As revolutionary leftists, we should support the Iranian people and their rights as humans not the government that oppress them. No matter who they oppose. This trends needs to be stopped, even in other threads on this forum we have supposed leftist who speak out in favor of the current state simply because it is at odds with the west. That is no justification for the oppression and torture of the people. Fuck all capitalist states.

[( R )evolution]

Also keep in mind that this is the first time in 30 years that something like this has happened in Iran. For 30 years the despotic dictatorship quelled all forms of resistance, now they are all coming out in open opposition to it, defying government bans and risking their lives.



This vital in order to fully understand the situation and the potential of it. Iran's government has kept the people at bay for the past decades through threats of violence and jail but at this moment there are hundreds of thousands of people in the streets openly resisting the state and the police. This is amazing! It shows the power of the masses, in a country which has a horrible record of human rights millions of people are in open struggle. While Mousavi may be the leader now, as LZ said, "There is only so far you can bend as a supporter of the Iranian state when calls are being made for its overthrowing."

Hopefully the moment will come when Mousavi's true position as apart of the system is shown and the people rally behind the message of the destruction of the state!

[Prairie Fire]

To me, the current situation in Iran seems similar to the situation with the elections in Zimbabwe previously.

Ahmadinejad is no friend of the working class, obviously. On the flip side, he is an anti-imperialist leader, and the other candidate Mousavi seems to be supported by the United States in this matter.

Mousavi is in favour of negotiating with Obama in the US (Negotiating what? An end to Irans soviegnty?), and has taken a less defiant stance to Israel as Amadinejad. He also supports pivitaization of Television networks.

Also, Mousavi has already served a term as premier in the past, which oversaw the 1988 execution of several Iranian political prisoners, mostly Islamic socialists and communists.

We must also remember that, in regards to fighting theorcracy in Iran, both candidates for Iranian leadership were running with the approval of the Ayatollah.

So, while I support the Iranian peoples right to determine their own affairs, I can't help but feel that they are being duped. The first revolution to overthrow the Shah was high-jacked by Islamists. This current unrest is being loudly applauded by the United states and it's allies, so that is probably not a good sign.

Again, Ahmadinejad is not a friend to the working class, but like Mugabe in the last elections in Zimbabwe, he is a steadfast anti-imperialist leader, in sharp contrast to the other bourgeois candidate.

Neither one of these candidates are going to bring about revolutionary transformation of Iran, so at least support national self determination against the rise of a new "Shah" and Iranian comprador bourgeoisie.

Now, maybe the election results are legitimate, maybe not, but also remember that most (if not all) recent elections in the foriegn policy adversaries of the United States have been declared illigitimate right from the get-go.

Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Moldova, Belarus.... Even after recounts ( I have viewed the Venezuelan electoral system first-hand. It is more advanced and impenetrable than the one in my country), these countries are declared "dictatorships". In Palestine, where victorious Hamas took the majority of seats in the Palestinian authority in parliamentary elections in 2006, the response of the United States
was to refuse to recognize the government and freeze funds to the Palestinian authority ( Israel, Canada, and the European Union did the same).


On the flipside, in countries with blatantly aknowledged electoral fraud where the US was involved (Haiti, 2006), whos fraud was so crude and primitive that it litrerally included boxes of ballots being found in the trash, there is little coverage, let alone "top story" coverage. In Haiti there was mass unrest due to this move, not unlike Iran, but although the fraud was over-turned, it still became nothing more than a current event foot-note.

When the election was contested in Mexico, against the American leadership candidate Calderon, with hundreds of thousands (high estimates say 3 million) people in the streets, the international news covered the incident, but never hinted that there was any truth to the allegations or clearly supported the hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised Mexican people.

Not to mention the 2000 election fiasco in the US itself.

Countries with straight up military coups during this time period have also been barely mentioned in passing, like Thailand, Fiji and Madegascar, so it is not an issue of democratic or un-democratic. In the last 10 years, the USA has invaded/ launched incursions into at least 6 countries, supported Israeli aggression in Lebanon and Palestine, supported a coup attempt in Venezuela, and undermined democratic processes in many countries.

The legitimacy of Electoral democracy is not an issue to a country built on strike breaking, gunboat diplomacy, financing coups, annexation and setting up puppet governments.

I'm not saying that the Iranian elections are definately legitimate, and I'm not saying that Ahmadinejad is the glorious leader of the Iranian proletariat, but I am saying that the bourgeois mouth-pieces are putting their spin on this event, Mousavi is a boureois candidate as well (and a commie killer), and the US cares only about their own interests in Iran and the world at large.

Take the current coverage with a grain of salt, in the context of the larger history of Iran, the US and the world.

[Led Zeppelin]

So, while I support the Iranian peoples right to determine their own affairs, I can't help but feel that they are being duped. The first revolution to overthrow the Shah was high-jacked by Islamists. This current unrest is being loudly applauded by the United states and it's allies, not to mention all of the Revlib bunch, so that is probably not a good sign.

You're right, it would only be a good sign if Hoxhaists supported it, right?

Actually it's ironic because the only Hoxhaist party in Iran has supported this movement and has called for hunger strikes. But I suppose they are not Hoxhaist enough for you...

EDIT: Here is a link to their site: http://www.toufan.org/


Sorry Praire Fire, but you don't really know anything about the situation nor do you know enough about the history of Iran or Iran itself to analyze it. When you do attempt to do so you'll end up with the disaster like we see above.

It's not a pretty sight.


Take the current coverage with a grain of salt, in the context of the larger history of Iran, the US and the world.

In the context of the larger history of Iran and the world it would be much better to take your analysis with a grain of salt.

EDIT: I realize I come over as a bit abrasive to say the least, but I haven't had much sleep and posts that I know are wrong based on facts I've been getting from Iran annoy me. Your position is actually level-headed compared to others who have posted.

[Prairie Fire]

You're right, it would only be a good sign if Hoxhaists supported it, right?


Oh shit, I left that part in! :lol:

Sorry, I have posted this analysis on a few forums. Awkward.

Anyways, it isn't a matter of "Hoxhaist" or un-Hoxhaist.

Is there a specific part of my analysis that doesn't make sense, or are you going to make me and my specific ideology the issue?

As for the Hoxhaist party in Iran (organization name?) supporting this action, I guarantee that there is more to it. Besides, the "Hoxhaist" party in Venezuela supported Rosales. Do you agree with the actions of all parties that call themselves Trotskyist?

You have asserted that my analysis is wrong and I don't know what I'm talking about, but you haven't really addressed any of my points, other than my jab at the holy sanctity of revleft, and those like yourself who are, it seems,rushing towards the edge without caution.

I'm not supporting Ahmadinejad, and I do think that the Iranian people (including those who are in the streets) have a right to decide their own leadership and government.

I just see the way that this event is being spinned, and I don't think that Mousavi is the lesser of two evils.

In the future, instead of attacking me, maybe be political, defend your line and actually criticize mine in a political way. Telling me that I'm wrong without elaboration isn't criticism.

[Led Zeppelin]

you have asserted that my analysis is wrong and I don't knw what i'm talking about, but you haven't really addressed any of my points, other than a jab at the holy sanctity of revleft, and those like yourself who are, it seems, getting suckered into supporting bourgeois objectives.

See the edits in my post.

I believe you posted the "getting sucked into supporting bourgeois objectives" as a response to my hostility and not as a response to any of my positions, so please retract that or back it up. I also posted a link to that party's site.

I'm not sure why you would say you disagree with them though since you basically have the same position. You don't support Mousavi, you don't support Ahmadinejad. You just have a little of that "anti-imperialism" stuff as baggage.

[redguard2009]

Hmm... interesting position. Very interesting.

On the one hand, what is the bigger threat? Religious totalitarianism, oppression, restriction of basic freedoms? Or capitalism, consumerism and the opening of the floodgates to western-brand despotism?

What can history teach?

The religious backwaterness of the Ayatolah regime in Iran could be compared to fuedalist monarchy; repressive, archaic, dominated by illogical tradition and the ridiculousness of infallable religious decree.

As Marx wrote in the 1800s it is important for communists to realize the way in which societies progress. They do not leap from fuedalist monarchy to socialist paradise; humanity as individuals and as a collective are incapable of maintaining such violent and sudden change. Traditions must be altered and abolished, time-honoured rituals and deep-rooted religious indoctrination can not be swept away overnight (bad Anarchists, bad!). Change takes time; it takes transition.

The "bourgeoisification" of Iran is in my opinion such a transition. It is a step towards progress -- not the giant leap some expect everyone to make, but a step nonetheless towards progressive change.

Though I have my doubts about Marx's and Lenin's analysis of political development, I believe in this case the proper course of action would be to undo the Ayatolah's regime and, if necessary, pull Iran closer to western democracy.

(However, on the other hand, what will be accomplished? It is my belief that a nation's domestic policies reflect the attitude of its people; a rebellious population will lead to a totalitarian system of law and order while a complacent population will lead to a more subtle and "open" system; do not think for a second that if leftist revolutionaries took to the streets in uprising that our nations' security forces would not be riding around in motorcycle gangs beating, shooting and arbitrarily incarcerating us in the tens of thousands as they currently do in Iran.)

[Led Zeppelin]

You don't have two of lesses evils when both evils are the same, i.e., capitalism.

The Bolsheviks didn't ask themselves; "What is the lesser evil, imperialist German domination or Russian despotism?" They opposed both equally and put forth an independent anti-capitalist line.

I don't know why some people are so afraid to do the same here. It must the effect the media is having on a lot of people from the west. Do you really think an armed Iranian working-class, the only force that can destroy this regime, will then simply go over to another capitalist system? That is simply not possible. Armed workers do not overthrow the state and establish capitalism. Armed workers overthrow states and establish socialism.

And the only force that can smash the despotic state is the armed working-class.

Also, Russia in 1917 was also a "fuedalist monarchy; repressive, archaic, dominated by illogical tradition and the ridiculousness of infallable religious decree", that didn't stop October from happening. Perhaps though this is merely the February, while the October will follow it soon after. Maybe it's the 1905.

Whatever it may become, it isn't yet, and we have to make sure that we fight for it and support it towards becoming what our aim is for it to be, that is, the October.