Blaming America and/or "the corporations" for the world's problems

[GPDP]

Am I the only one that gets bugged out by this?

I usually hear it from left-liberals and greens, as well as some anti-corporation libertarians. Basically, instead of identifying capitalism as the culprit, they go after its main propagators.

Yes, American imperialism runs rampant and is responsible for much of the warring and oppression going on. Yes, corporations are overly powerful and have the ability to sway governments and international institutions in their favors in order to maximize profit at everyone else's expense. But they still operate within a wider framework of which they are both not only a part of, but under which they co-operate and collude for mutual benefit.

When one rails solely against the American government and American corporations, one tends to miss what's really wrong. Without powerful multinationals, we'd still have a class system and governments that protect that system, eventually leading to their re-consolidation in the end. Without the American empire, another nation will simply take its place and the whole thing will just repeat itself. Such will be the case as long as the disease itself is left untreated, no matter how much we alleviate the symptoms.

That is why we must be very careful when we criticize government and corporations for their misdeeds. Our analysis and criticism must be rooted primarily in a primarily anti-capitalist framework beyond simple slogans such as "Fuck Amerikkka/the corporations!" Otherwise, what is our message but simple populist posturing?

To these people, I suggest they aim their anger not merely at the US or giant corporations, but to the greater capitalist system under which they operate. Only by its abolition can the atrocities and the exploitation cease.

/rant

[ZeroNowhere]

Am I the only one that gets bugged out by this?Well, yes. But then again, I tend to dislike populists more than conservatives, and that is pretty much a common populist tactic. Also the whole fetishism over small business by pretty much the entire right side of the spectrum, when really the only difference between small businesses and large corporations is that one has more power than the other.
Another common variation is attacking 'greedy bankers'.

[Die Neue Zeit]

To both the OP and Zero: I am of a mixed opinion regarding the rhetoric behind "them multinational corporations," "them corporate executives," "them greedy bankers/financiers," and "them greedy landlords/rentiers" - not to mention "them lobbyists." On the one hand, should class-strugglists use such rhetoric, they should know that whatever program they're advancing next is merely some sort of minimum program (no matter how radical).

On the other hand, most workers tend to be, in the words of comrade MarxSchmarx, more "left-social-democratic" than many class-strugglists think. So, combine all this left-populist rhetoric (not just one or two or three or even four of the above) with a solid but not laundry-list-sized platform of radical reform demands (not the PSL type in the other thread ;) ), and you might just kill two or three birds with one stone in terms of educating, agitating, and organizing workers.

[9]

Of course its annoying, but considering where its coming from, I'd be surprised to hear anything but. After all, liberals and right-libertarians are capitalists and - particularly in the case of politicians - will go to great lengths to prove that they're capitalists should some ill-informed establishment mouthpiece paint them otherwise. So framing the problems as the result of "greedy bankers" or what have you is perfectly logical from the perspective of an individual who seeks to maintain the system of capitalism. The day that I hear liberals and right-libertarians decrying the fundamental capitalist system is the day I meet the Messiah.

[Revy]

There's an opposite view which is taken by some people who support protectionism/ fair trade, who think that the US is the victim of free trade rather than its main perpetrator.

I personally find that annoying because of how out of touch with reality it is. It just blames countries like China for everything.

[Prairie Fire]

You are correct that blaming the US and "the corporations" is oversimplifying.

Obviously there are other imperialist states other than the US, and almost every country has their own national bourgeoisie to contend with.

Also, "mom and pop" capitalism is not an alternative to "corporate" capitalism. Exploitation is exploitation.

Still, while it is oversimplification, these entities are the biggest culprits of crimes of capitalism. The USA is the premier world imperialist power by far, and the trend of our capitalism in this age is towards big monopoly capitalism, so even other capitalists (especially petty-bourgeoisie) get squeezed out in the inevitable struggle for markets.

America and "the corporations" are not the problem of capitalism in it's entirety, but they certainly are the poster children for it, in all of it's blood soaked glory.

[MarxSchmarx]

On the other hand, most workers tend to be, in the words of comrade MarxSchmarx, more "left-social-democratic" than many class-strugglists think. So, combine all this left-populist rhetoric (not just one or two or even three of the above) with a solid but not laundry-list-sized platform of radical reform demands (not the PSL type in the other thread http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/wink.gif ), and you might just kill two or three birds with one stone in terms of educating, agitating, and organizing workers.

Thanks comrade. In fact, I think the view the OP discusses about "anti-Americanism" or even anti-corporatism takes the guise of "anti-Anglo-Saxon" in most of continental Europe. As such it is just another guise for nationalism in those areas. The same is true to an only slightly lesser extent in the Far East. The unease is more with the "foreign" part of it than anything else.

It is at its heart a xenophobic reaction. Like reactions against immigrants, it takes the form of a nominally populist perspective, but is really quite provincial in its aims. It is no accident that it's biggest proponents, until at least recently, were generally from the far right.

Gramsci got it right.

Anti Americanism isn't so much stupid as it is silly.

[GPDP]

I still remember a particular person who used to go on and on about how much America sucked, but with no clear idea of what to do about it. I remember I got in contact with her, and told her about socialism and all the different ideologies, so that she may develop her ideas further.

She joined this website not too long ago, actually. I'm kinda proud to say I helped her turn to the socialist left, away from whatever nebulous liberal anti-Americanism she used to spout. :)

[Dimentio]

Am I the only one that gets bugged out by this?

I usually hear it from left-liberals and greens, as well as some anti-corporation libertarians. Basically, instead of identifying capitalism as the culprit, they go after its main propagators.

Yes, American imperialism runs rampant and is responsible for much of the warring and oppression going on. Yes, corporations are overly powerful and have the ability to sway governments and international institutions in their favors in order to maximize profit at everyone else's expense. But they still operate within a wider framework of which they are both not only a part of, but under which they co-operate and collude for mutual benefit.

When one rails solely against the American government and American corporations, one tends to miss what's really wrong. Without powerful multinationals, we'd still have a class system and governments that protect that system, eventually leading to their re-consolidation in the end. Without the American empire, another nation will simply take its place and the whole thing will just repeat itself. Such will be the case as long as the disease itself is left untreated, no matter how much we alleviate the symptoms.

That is why we must be very careful when we criticize government and corporations for their misdeeds. Our analysis and criticism must be rooted primarily in a primarily anti-capitalist framework beyond simple slogans such as "Fuck Amerikkka/the corporations!" Otherwise, what is our message but simple populist posturing?

To these people, I suggest they aim their anger not merely at the US or giant corporations, but to the greater capitalist system under which they operate. Only by its abolition can the atrocities and the exploitation cease.

/rant

I am also a bit irritated by anti-americanists. They seriously believe that the world would become cozier if only Sweden ran it. What they do not think about is that the USA do not behave like it does because its evil, but because it needs to behave that way in order to keep its position.

[NecroCommie]

Would you all stop! This whole thread is here only because U.S. denies its war crimes! If McDonalds would pay more to workers we would not have need for communism and this thread. I suggest you all move to Sweden and talk then if you want to...

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Yes, it is very annoying, but at least they're (somewhat) on the right track. My standard answer to populist anti-Americanism or anti-corporatism goes something like this:

So, you're saying that the solution to the world's problems is for everyone to be nice and not use their power to oppress people? And you call us communists utopian? Look, any other government would behave just like the US if it could. Any small business would behave just like a giant corporation if it could. Anyone would become oppressive and exploit workers if they had the power to do so. The only solution is to ensure that no one ever gets that power in the first place.

[Dimentio]

Around 2002-2004, myhigh school was divided into four factions.

1: Those who claimed that America in general and George W Bush in particular was something akin to Mordor, and was responsible for all wars, impoverishment and fatigue in the entire planet. "Bush is like Hitler" was the most typical rant. Most often left-wingers and idiots who held this belief.

2: Those who claimed that America was the defender of the world's democracy, and that Bush was a white knight who was going to beat up Afghan islamists, Saddam and Swedish feminists. Right-wingers and idiots.

3: Those who did not have the interest in politics. 90% of the high school.

4: Those who were insane. Goths, people with mental problems and fascist convictions.

(5): Everyone should be nice towards another. We should sit in a big circle and clap our hands. (My English teacher)

[Die Neue Zeit]

Thanks comrade. In fact, I think the view the OP discusses about "anti-Americanism" or even anti-corporatism takes the guise of "anti-Anglo-Saxon" in most of continental Europe. As such it is just another guise for nationalism in those areas. The same is true to an only slightly lesser extent in the Far East. The unease is more with the "foreign" part of it than anything else.

Oh, then the railing against American corporations, American execs, American bankers, American rentiers, etc. is indeed nationalist BS... Funny you bring up "anti-Anglo-Saxon" musings in regards to the UK: more nationalist BS.

[NecroCommie]

4: Those who were insane. Goths...
I resent that :glare:

[BIG BROTHER]

To be honest I think that blaming the corporations can be good. Especially for those who are barely starting to questions why the world is as fucked up as it is. One can use the directed anger towards corporations and use it to explain the nature of the class society were we live in, and how its all rooted under the capitalist system.

[Dimentio]

To be honest I think that blaming the corporations can be good. Especially for those who are barely starting to questions why the world is as fucked up as it is. One can use the directed anger towards corporations and use it to explain the nature of the class society were we live in, and how its all rooted under the capitalist system.

Yes, but its never progressive to have a country as a hate object. Especially when you are living in a country with similar characteristics.

[BIG BROTHER]

Yes, but its never progressive to have a country as a hate object. Especially when you are living in a country with similar characteristics.

I was just referring to the corporations. As for blaming a country, well for those of us living in imperialist countries we can always make a difference between the people and the government that represents the interests of capital.

Were as in a neo-colonial country people have a better sense of what Imperialism is.