N. Korea Convicts 2 U.S. Journalists

[GracchusBabeuf]

.

[NecroCommie]

Well... My stance is neutral: "they got what was coming to them..."

[pierrotlefou]

If things start up with them I wonder if we'll hear talk in the US of a draft. The Man is already spread everywhere across the middle east, I don't know if he's got enough resources currently to possibly fight North Korea.

[Dimentio]

Obvious attempt to test the Obama administration is obvious.

[Agrippa]

Well... My stance is neutral: "they got what was coming to them..."

For practicing their right to freely move across the globe without care for capitalist geopolitical borders? (Borders that are defined by capitalist politicians, and enforced by capitalist militaries) Or for wanting to use their positions as journalists to expose the sex-trafficking industry? (The project they were working on when they were arrested)

Nothing says communism like "labor camps" and "reform through labor"

[Blackscare]

Nothing says communism like "labor camps" and "reform through labor"


Are you joking here? Anyone else I would assume it was sarcasm, but IIRC I've seen you on the boards before demonstrating a total lack of understanding of what communism is. Stop making up bizarre definitions of the word "communism" in every goddamn thread you post in, please.


PS: the PRK is not even "communist" anyway.


Also, even if those borders are just capitalist constructs, if the PRK doesn't defend those capitalist constructs during the current age of world capitalism/imperialism, it'll be dominated by outside powers.


I'm not a defender of the PRK, but you're acting like they have the option of just pretending there are no such things as borders or national sovereignty. Incredibly naive.

[Rjevan]

Oh my... I've read some articles in which several "experts" claim, that our Dear Leader (not Malte/Edelweiss, the other one ;)) just acts the way he did in the last weeks, because he wants attention and acceptance from the USA and diplomatic relations with Obama... great plan, hell, if this doesn't work, I don't know what will do the trick then! :rolleyes:

[Revy]

Their report was on North Korean refugees. North Korean refugees, those who manage to escape the Orwellian nightmare, are routinely rounded up by the Chinese government and sent back to North Korea. So they decided to get close to the border. It's doubtful they knew they were in North Korea or that they were even in North Korea, because the border is not clearly defined.

If you can get 12 years in a labor camp for crossing the border, imagine what you get for daring to question the regime itself.

[Guerrilla22]

They were probaly there to do a smear piece on the DPRK and they ended up getting arrested. I'm sure the US would leave a couple of North Korean reporters alone if they had managed to get into the US though.

[Jack]

Is this the DRK "resisting imperialism" again?

[khad]

If you can get 12 years in a labor camp for crossing the border, imagine what you get for daring to question the regime itself.
They admitted their guilt.

(Just a bit of Stalinist humor)

[R_P_A_S]

I personally think journalist should focus more on the people who live in the DPRK trying to understand them better. Than the few refugees. Those stories will come up either way. Regardless 12 years? FUCK!

[Guerrilla22]

They sneeked across the border from China and got caught. I'm sure the US would have been understanding and sent two North Koreans back if they had crossed into the US illegally from Canada or Mexico.

[Revy]

Oh, I guess our values no longer apply just because a dictatorship uses the word "communist" and "socialist" here and there. We're just supposed to approve when they throw people in labor camps for 12 years for crossing a border. Ridiculous.

I don't care whether North Korea has nuclear weapons as a political deterrent to imperialist aggression. However, shit like this just pisses me off. And not because they're Americans. But because they're innocent of wrongdoing - and the whole thing is pointless.

[NecroCommie]

Innocent of wrongdoing? Perhaps. But well aware of the possible consequenses of going so near? definately.

Thusly: Neutral "they got what was coming to them."

Besides, its not likely the reporters were in N-Korea to preach about true communism. They are propably as recreationist as N-Korea itself, if not more so.

[BIG BROTHER]

Well that North Korea has done to those reporters is just brutal, even if they were just trying to do a smear piece....

...although we unfortunately know that this case will be used to demonize the term communism, socialist, etc

[rednordman]

What where they thinking in the first place?? Did they not understand the nature the regime? I somehow think they did, so out of desperation for fame and recognition, they went anyway to blatantly smear the country in the same way that any other American media would. Heck if they went and saw heaven, they would still say it was hell.

Honestly, what did they expect?- and to think that they admitted their guilt. They would have done better to have lied to the court and said they just got lost.

This is what pisses me of about people who absolutly insist on going to very dangerous areas in the world simply to make money. Please do not partronise yourselves with all this 'trying to expose a brutal regime' rubbish. They knew very well that the North Koreans do not mess around when it comes to these sort of things.

Though I think that NK does alot of things very wrong, I can understand a little bit over things like this. Sure the sentace is barbaric, but when it come to countries like Burma and NK that is just the way it is. When people try and expose the crimes of the USA goverment, they are made to look like loony mad conspiracy theorists, and that is very bad aswell, its what happens when you mess with governments. And North Koreas are as touchy as they have been for a long time right now-and everyone knows this.

I somehow think that these girls are very much regreting there decisions now, and this makes me upset.

I know for certain that these girls went there thinking themselves as 'smart' and 'heroes of the free-world' etc, but look where they are now.

I also know for certain that if they could have seen the future, they would have instantly turned back and not persude their project. If only they had not have been SO SO naive...Just think what it must be like for their families:(.

[rednordman]

They sneeked across the border from China and got caught. I'm sure the US would have been understanding and sent two North Koreans back if they had crossed into the US illegally from Canada or Mexico.To be honest, I dont think so somehow. They would milk them for all the information they could get.

[NecroCommie]

No, I dont think the U.S. would detain any N-Koreans. For two reasons. U.S. has a totally different propaganda value when it comes to such actions. Secondly, with all propability such N-Korean citizens just wanted to leap away from N-Korea, and thusly hold little if any important information.

But I agree with your basic message, that the U.S. would do anything if it were to smite competing imperialists. No matter how dirty it may be.

[Femme_Fatale]

What where they thinking in the first place?? Did they not understand the nature the regime?
They knew what they went for, its their job to go to places where no one has ever been before. And the fact that they are American doesnt come into play here because they did a job a journalist from any country would do.
What a barbarian government though, this shows that they try to conceal the reality as much as possible. Even if one goes there as a tourist its only the certain parts of pyongyang and villages tht are designated for tourists... if someone really thinks that its all propaganda...well have fun living there and building north korean "communism" :p

[Bandito]

Journalists are very very very rarely arrested or killed if they are in their positions, agreed with their stations and media. If you break the rules, you get what's yours.

[Wanted Man]

if someone really thinks that its all propaganda...well have fun living there and building north korean "communism" :p
Indeed. If it's so good, why don't you live there and leave us to our freedom? And go back to Russia. Hmm, where did we hear that one before?

[KC]

They were probaly there to do a smear piece on the DPRK and they ended up getting arrested. I'm sure the US would leave a couple of North Korean reporters alone if they had managed to get into the US though.They were doing a report on sex trafficking across the Korea/China border, which is a very real and concerning issue.

Your assumption that they were doing a "smear piece" shows your blatant ignorance of the entire situation. They work for Current TV, which regularly puts out quality reports. If you want to see some work from one of the reporters that was arrested (Laura Ling) then I would suggest that you watch this documentary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFTZ3flsipE) on how hard hit Las Vegas has been by the crisis. Next time you shouldn't make ridiculous assumptions before you post such an ignorant position.

I fully support the these reporters' fight against the North Korean state; it is a political act and nothing more.


They sneeked across the border from China and got caught. I'm sure the US would have been understanding and sent two North Koreans back if they had crossed into the US illegally from Canada or Mexico.Nobody has been imprisoned for 12 years for crossing the US/Mexico border. What a ridiculous comparison.

[rednordman]

They were doing a report on sex trafficking across the Korea/China border, which is a very real and concerning issue.Yes it is, but thats a little besides the point. We all agree that North Korea does not represent communism or socialism in a very good way. These reporters may claim that they are out to highlight the dreadfull sex trafficing that occurs between the china/nk border, which is obviously unacceptable. The truth is in my opinion, is that they are simply using this kind of thing to tar authoritarian governments that they associate with socialism.

Thus in a nutshell, They are stating that sex trafficing is a synomonous with socialist theory. Sounds mad to us, but people in the west actually believe this.

[KC]

Yes it is, but thats a little besides the point. We all agree that North Korea does not represent communism or socialism in a very good way. These reporters may claim that they are out to highlight the dreadfull sex trafficing that occurs between the china/nk border, which is obviously unacceptable. The truth is in my opinion, is that they are simply using this kind of thing to tar authoritarian governments that they associate with socialism.

Well then your claim is entirely speculative and unsupportable, and based on the integrity of the journalists in question, I highly doubt that anything you are saying is correct. You seem to simply have a desire to stick to your agenda regardless of whether or not it fits reality.


Thus in a nutshell, They are stating that sex trafficing is a synomonous with socialist theory.

Really? Could you please show me where they stated this? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

[rednordman]

Well then your claim is entirely speculative and unsupportable, and based on the integrity of the journalists in question, I highly doubt that anything you are saying is correct. You seem to simply have a desire to stick to your agenda regardless of whether or not it fits reality.



Really? Could you please show me where they stated this? Or are you just talking out of your ass?:rolleyes:I was half expecting a respose like this. I have no real support for North Korea, and have stated in other points the harshness of the regime. Im not trying to defend them, but it just comes across as a stupid thing that the journalist have done to get themselves in this position in the first place. Was it really worth it? What if they end up dead? Is life worth less than some assignment that isnt going to change anything in North Korea (make it worse if anything), and probably not going to get seen by many people anyway?

Its like what i said about people seeing it and thinking that this is something that is 'part' of the socialist ideal. WE ALL KNOW ITS RUBBISH, but people generally do not see it that way as they are not experts on North Korea, and do not understand the obvious hardline-vulgerisation of marxism that goes on in the country. The amount of times I seen people read and view stuff like this and turn and say 'evil communists'. As if such an idea is addicted to human suffering and everything that is bad in the world has something to do with socialism.

May sound like rubbish to you, but if it is true that children in the west are now getting taught that communism and fascism are virtally the same ideology, and communist polical movements are getting censored for being considered racist (?). People are being bred to assume stupidist things about our ideology. I mean people are even taking this stupid notion of 'liberal fascism' seriously now. That is so incorrect on many different levels.

[KC]

I was half expecting a respose like this. I have no real support for North Korea, and have stated in other points the harshness of the regime. Im not trying to defend them, but it just comes across as a stupid thing that the journalist have done to get themselves in this position in the first place. Was it really worth it? What if they end up dead? Is life worth less than some assignment that isnt going to change anything in North Korea (make it worse if anything), and probably not going to get seen by many people anyway?

This seems to be an argument against reporting in dangerous situations in general, which in my opinion doesn't even deserve a response.


Its like what i said about people seeing it and thinking that this is something that is 'part' of the socialist ideal. WE ALL KNOW ITS RUBBISH, but people generally do not see it that way as they are not experts on North Korea, and do not understand the obvious hardline-vulgerisation of marxism that goes on in the country. The amount of times I seen people read and view stuff like this and turn and say 'evil communists'. As if such an idea is addicted to human suffering and everything that is bad in the world has something to do with socialism.

May sound like rubbish to you, but if it is true that children in the west are now getting taught that communism and fascism are virtally the same ideology, and communist polical movements are getting censored for being considered racist (?). People are being bred to assume stupidist things about our ideology. I mean people are even taking this stupid notion of 'liberal fascism' seriously now. That is so incorrect on many different levels.

You can't defend your statements that these reporters were merely doing a "smear piece" on socialism ("They are stating that sex trafficing is a synomonous with socialist theory") so now you are simply ranting. If you don't have anything worthy to add to the discussion then just don't post.

[rednordman]

This seems to be an argument against reporting in dangerous situations in general, which in my opinion doesn't even deserve a response.



You can't defend your statements that these reporters were merely doing a "smear piece" on socialism ("They are stating that sex trafficing is a synomonous with socialist theory") so now you are simply ranting. If you don't have anything worthy to add to the discussion then just don't post.Blimey. I wasnt even arguing with you, just putting my opinion across. You dont need to talk back as if im a piece of dirt ffs.

What I should have said was that by doing reports like this they are simply just damaging the name of socialism and not directly North Korea like they are aiming for. Heck they could even be socialists for all i know. I respect them in a way for trying to highlight the nature of NKs regime, but I stand by what i said in that most people will not even have seen their report anyway. Was it worth it? - its not like the general opinion of NK is anywhere a nice place anyway, everyone knows it crap. By focusing on the sex trafficing between china, is in little comparison to the starvation that their people have to face at the expense of silly 'missle plans' (its only a by product of that).

Like it or not most people where i'm from will straight away think of North Korea when they think of Communism and socialism. I would even say they were not as bad as America either. Just a sad fact of life (at the moment).

[More Fire for the People]

I don't think they should be imprisoned but... they crossed the North Korean border illegally. It's very hypocritical for middle America to be appalled by North Korea's imprisoning of the two journalist but at the same time want to arrest and deport illegal immigrants in the United States.

[KC]

I don't think they should be imprisoned but... they crossed the North Korean border illegally. It's very hypocritical for middle America to be appalled by North Korea's imprisoning of the two journalist but at the same time want to arrest and deport illegal immigrants in the United States.


Nobody has been imprisoned for 12 years for crossing the US/Mexico border. What a ridiculous comparison.

.

[Jack]

Yes it is, but thats a little besides the point. We all agree that North Korea does not represent communism or socialism in a very good way. These reporters may claim that they are out to highlight the dreadfull sex trafficing that occurs between the china/nk border, which is obviously unacceptable. The truth is in my opinion, is that they are simply using this kind of thing to tar authoritarian governments that they associate with socialism.

Thus in a nutshell, They are stating that sex trafficing is a synomonous with socialist theory. Sounds mad to us, but people in the west actually believe this.

If you've ever watched the reporters, they usually do stories for Current on the state of laborers in China. They're pro worker in their reports, so stop your slander.

[khad]

Well then your claim is entirely speculative and unsupportable, and based on the integrity of the journalists in question, I highly doubt that anything you are saying is correct. You seem to simply have a desire to stick to your agenda regardless of whether or not it fits reality.

Really? Could you please show me where they stated this? Or are you just talking out of your ass?
This may be irrelevant to the current argument, but I've already had one cappie on another forum accuse me of condoning the North Korean state's trafficking of women to lonely Chinese farmers.

[Communist Theory]

Fuck 'em.

[KC]

This may be irrelevant to the current argument, but I've already had one cappie on another forum accuse me of condoning the North Korean state's trafficking of women to lonely Chinese farmers.

So what? One shouldn't report on the illegal trafficking of women as sex slaves across the Korea-China border because you're afraid of being called names? God forbid some start organizing against it; I can't even imagine the names you'd be called, then!

:rolleyes:


Fuck 'em.

Fuck you.

[khad]

So what? One shouldn't report on the illegal trafficking of women as sex slaves across the Korea-China border because you're afraid of being called names? God forbid some start organizing against it; I can't even imagine the names you'd be called, then!
ACROSS the Korea-China border? It's obvious you don't know a damn thing about the issue, so the asinine accusations you're so keen to spout off are half-baked at best.

The trafficking that occurs is carried out by Chinese organized crime groups who prey on camps of refugees on the Chinese side of the border because these people have no legal status and have no refuge in the authorities, who are likely to deport them back to North Korea.

The North Korean government is obviously not in charge of this trafficking since their vested interests lie in retaining their population. There may be some gangs in North Korea slipping under the radar, but the ones who control this trade are the Chinese (and South Korean in the ROK). None of these parties are affiliated with their respective national governments.

I was pointing this fact out merely to indicate that it's a common thing for Americans to automatically attribute anything negative to the administration of North Korea. Even flying in the face of common sense. I believe this was what rednordman was trying to get at in a rather ham-fisted way.

Thank you for personally lending further credence to this theory.

Now educate yourself to prevent future embarrassment:
http://www.nationalreview.com/hughes/hughes200507190734.asp

[Stark]

There must be an end in the interference in DPRK's internal affairs. The legal system chosen by the Korean people found these two people guilty of committing crimes against the socialist state.

These two journalists were despatched by the class enemy in order to slander and denigrate the Korean people with this attempt to portray the country in the worst possible light. The imperialist hypocrites promoting the cause of these two enemies of DPRK have been remarkably silent on the fact that Cuban citizens known as the Cuban Five have been illegally held in the United States for several years. This incident was provoked in order to escalate tension with the DPRK at a time when militarist circles in Washington and Japan have engaged in an unprecedented drive to war.

[KC]

There must be an end in the interference in DPRK's internal affairs. The legal system chosen by the Korean people found these two people guilty of committing crimes against the socialist state.

These two journalists were despatched by the class enemy in order to slander and denigrate the Korean people with this attempt to portray the country in the worst possible light. The imperialist hypocrites promoting the cause of these two enemies of DPRK have been remarkably silent on the fact that Cuban citizens known as the Cuban Five have been illegally held in the United States for several years. This incident was provoked in order to escalate tension with the DPRK at a time when militarist circles in Washington and Japan have engaged in an unprecedented drive to war.


Lulz.

[Stark]

Lulz.


If you don't have anything worthy to add to the discussion then just don't post. .

[Communist Theory]

Fuck you.
Heh, such the innocent damsel in distress KC.

[KC]

Then why did you post, Stark?

[rednordman]

I was pointing this fact out merely to indicate that it's a common thing for Americans to automatically attribute anything negative to the administration of North Korea. Even flying in the face of common sense. I believe this was what rednordman was trying to get at in a rather ham-fisted way. Indeed, But Im not a explicably versed revolutionary like KC..So my points are obviously inferior no matter what:rolleyes:.