Europe Votes Conservative

[Bud Struggle]

I don't know if anyone really cares about the European Parliament, but I found it interesting that the conservatives have become much stronger in almost all countries:

There seems to be a trend that is going on for a long time now: When the US goes left (politically), Europe goes right and vice versa. Hm...

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL77465320090608

BRUSSELS, June 8 (Reuters) - Europe's voters trust conservatives more than the left to handle the most severe financial and economic crisis since World War Two.
That was the key message of European Parliament elections that produced strong results for incumbent conservatives in Germany, France, Italy and Poland, but heavy defeats for governing socialists in Britain, Spain and Hungary...

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

hardly anyone voted.

[RedAnarchist]

I don't know if anyone really cares about the European Parliament, but I found it interesting that the conservatives have become much stronger in almost all countries:

There seems to be a trend that is going on for a long time now: When the US goes left (politically), Europe goes right and vice versa. Hm...

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL77465320090608

BRUSSELS, June 8 (Reuters) - Europe's voters trust conservatives more than the left to handle the most severe financial and economic crisis since World War Two.
That was the key message of European Parliament elections that produced strong results for incumbent conservatives in Germany, France, Italy and Poland, but heavy defeats for governing socialists in Britain, Spain and Hungary...

Even the most politically naive person knows that Labour aren't socialist.

[Bud Struggle]

Even the most politically naive person knows that Labour aren't socialist.

I guess they are "General Socialists" in the same way that President Obama is a "Socialist."

But it's interesting that in a financial crisis people are more interested in conservative governments running things.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Labour pretty much are conservatives at the mo.

[Dimentio]

It was 43% of the eligible voters who voted in this election. Usual turnouts on the state level usually is about 70-90%. Leftist voters are generally more critical to the EU, and do not understand what the Union is supposed to do for them. I don't blame them.

The EU is a superpower toy project for the European business elite. But its a shame that turnout to the parliament is so low. The European parliament cannot make any laws, but it could veto proposals from the commission or the council.

[RedAnarchist]

I guess they are "General Socialists" in the same way that President Obama is a "Socialist."

But it's interesting that in a financial crisis people are more interested in conservative governments running things.

Obama isn't a socialist, he's a liberal. People don't want conservative governments, they're either not voting or voting for extremist parties suhc as the UKIP and BNP.

[Dimentio]

Obama isn't a socialist, he's a liberal. People don't want conservative governments, they're either not voting or voting for extremist parties suhc as the UKIP and BNP.

Neither do people want, or know about, the socialist parties. People generally have a very low esteem of politicians. Hardly something which they could be questioned on, but still a bit problematic for socialist parties. Mass media has generally a higher status.

The only "socialist" which has been able to reach out is Slovakia's Robert Fico.

And he's an insane populist.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

But it's interesting that in a financial crisis people are more interested in conservative governments running things.
It would be more correct to say that it's interesting how the people who support conservative governments are the only ones bothering to vote.

The actual gains by the right-wing parties are small in absolute terms - they've only gained 23 seats across Europe, which is only 3.1% of the total seats in Parliament. The reason why these elections are considered a victory for the right is because they should have lost (given the economic crisis), but they didn't.

[Demogorgon]

A conservative "win" is pretty disingenuous because people focus on national issues when they vote. Fact is Governing parties lost out across the board apart from in some of the larger countries like France, Italy and Poland where infighting in the centre-left opposition held them back. That makes overall figures more right wing, but it doesn't work. Also there have been complications with re-designation and so on. Fianna Fail have redesignated themselves making their loss to Fine Gael look like a move to the right when that isn't accurate at all. Four years ago Fine Gael's gains were seen as a loss to the right. Also Poland has moved from extreme-right to centre right in its voting which makes the centre-right block look stronger while not reflecting to a rightward movement. Governing conservative parties in Greece, Malta and so forth have lost out terribly as well.

In Britain, results are completely different North and South of the border. In Scotland the SNP heavily defeated Labour which in European Parliament terms is seen as a move from Social Democrat to Green, but actually means a move to another a bit more left wing social democratic party or more broadly a move from centre to centre-left, that can be seen as mildly positive. England is a disaster meanwhile. No two ways about it. I am less concerned by the BNP getting two seats. They haven't actually gained popularity, they just benefitted from low turnout and they will probably fuck it up badly anyway. No, the biggest problem is UKIP, also a fascist party, albeit a more subtle one, managed to come second, ahead of Labour and the Liberal Democrats. Part of that is that they are seen as a good protest against the EU in general, but it is still worrying that such an extreme right wing party can do so well. They actually lost votes in Scotland, reducing themselves to a mighty 5% though (with the BNP getting around 2.5%) so things aren't too bad up here again.

[#FF0000]

Why was the turnout so low? From what I've been hearing, it's usually much higher, yeah?

[ls]

Because people rightfully hate all these shitty parties, the lower the turnout IMO the better, that's the real result.

[Hoggy_RS]

Even the most politically naive person knows that Labour aren't socialist.

i was shocked to recentley learn they sit with the Socialists in the European parliament considering labour now consider themselves centre right. They'd be more at home in the christain democratic group.

[brigadista]

ther would have been a lot of votes for a box on the ballot sheet that said "none of the above"...

[Mindtoaster]

Bear in mind that in eastern Europe, the conservative parties tend to actually be farther left then the socialist parties.

[Bud Struggle]

Because people rightfully hate all these shitty parties, the lower the turnout IMO the better, that's the real result.

I don't think they "hate" anyone. The bottom line is that people these days are generally apolitical. For the most part they are content to let the rulers rule and are happy to go on with their daily lives.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

These days? Most people are always apolitical.

[Dimentio]

I don't think they "hate" anyone. The bottom line is that people these days are generally apolitical. For the most part they are content to let the rulers rule and are happy to go on with their daily lives.

Oh yes. People are not engaging in ideological political movements anymore. They are organising themselves in one-issue groups mostly. We are not in a phase where the issue is how the future should look like right now.

1917-1945 was such a phase, and it culminated in the Second World War.

I guess we will have a big war in the next decade. In Central Asia and the Middle East. China and Russia and proxies vs USA and Europe and proxies. That will give an elbow room for radical movements.

[RGacky3]

1917-1945 was such a phase, and it culminated in the Second World War.

That phase was not the cause of world war 2, it was a symptom of the conditions at the time. Things were bad, empires were collapsing. As of now, the Imperial powers of today are still relatively strong.


I don't think they "hate" anyone. The bottom line is that people these days are generally apolitical. For the most part they are content to let the rulers rule and are happy to go on with their daily lives.

Its not that people are contect, pols and general opinions clearly show this, its because most people, rightly so, feel they have no control over politics and their own conditions.

[Dimentio]

That phase was not the cause of world war 2, it was a symptom of the conditions at the time. Things were bad, empires were collapsing. As of now, the Imperial powers of today are still relatively strong.


I fully agree.

[NecroCommie]

When voting activity is low, conservatist tend to win. It is because conservatist see voting as some kind of semi-sacred thing that you must do. And then there is the fact that few leftists ever take european parliament seriously.

[Dimentio]

In general, I would say that European conservatives are not like their American counterparts. European conservatives would probably deprive the people of all firearms, they want a corporatist economy where the state has a significant role, and they see it as the state's role to "rear the people".

European liberals are generally economically speaking more right-wing than the conservatives, who on economic issues tend to stand in the middle ground. For example, the christian democrats in Germany and Italy has both built their countries welfare states. And the gaullists of France has always prided themselves of the French social model.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Personally I was delighted with the Irish election results but disappointed with the results in general. The Irish European election was a victory for the left and a victory for the pro-Europe camp. Both MEPs who had campaigned against the Lisbon Treaty were chucked out and Libertas, the right-wing Euroskeptic party, were utterly humiliated. Labour tripled their representation and a member of the Socialist Party took a seat in the capital.

http://www.politics.ie/blogs/evercloserunion/305-right-wing-european-parliament.html

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Why was the turnout so low? From what I've been hearing, it's usually much higher, yeah?
Well the average is probably misleading for most states because it was brought down by ludicrously low turnout in the newer states (less than 20% in Slovakia, for example). That might be because the fact of EU membership hasn't really sunk in as much for the electorate in those countries, though that's just my guess.

But still, turnout was lower than usual pretty much everywhere which is strange. I suppose in some countries which are doing badly, England being an example, people have taken to hating all politicians equally which would discourage them from voting. The other obvious answer is a disconnect between voters and the EU.

Again, Ireland bucked the trend. Turnout here remained much higher than the EU average and in fact did not significantly decrease since 2004. Personally, I think declining voter turnout was what allowed the right-wing nutters to grab seats in other countries.

[krazy kaju]

A lot of these so-called "conservative" parties are socially conservative but economically not much different from their left of center opponents. Many of these parties wouldn't attempt to deregulate, lower taxes, eliminate entitlement spending, or lower spending on foreign military "adventures." I remember watching Hannan on some conservative talk show, and he stated that many of these winners are (I'm paraphrasing here) "wishy washy 'Christian Democrat' types."

[Qwerty Dvorak]

A lot of these so-called "conservative" parties are socially conservative but economically not much different from their left of center opponents. Many of these parties wouldn't attempt to deregulate, lower taxes, eliminate entitlement spending, or lower spending on foreign military "adventures." I remember watching Hannan on some conservative talk show, and he stated that many of these winners are (I'm paraphrasing here) "wishy washy 'Christian Democrat' types."
Hannan just hates them all because they're European though.

But yeah, most of them are Christian Democrats. Thankfully even our right-wing isn't as batshit insane as the Austrian school :P j/k.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

A lot of these so-called "conservative" parties are socially conservative but economically not much different from their left of center opponents.
Right, but that's because their left-of-center opponents have moved to the right over the past 20 years. The conservative parties themselves are in the same place they've always been. If anything, they support more deregulation, lower taxes and less social spending now than they did in the past.

The vast, overwhelming majority of right-wing parties in the world do not support your sociopathic, inhuman economic policies, Misesian. That doesn't mean you can restrict the term "conservative" to those who agree with you any more than we can restrict the term "leftist" to revolutionary communists.

Those "so-called" conservative parties are mainstream conservatism. You are the fringe. Live with it. (and yes, we are a fringe too, but we're aware of it, unlike yourself)


Many of these parties wouldn't attempt to deregulate, lower taxes, eliminate entitlement spending, or lower spending on foreign military "adventures."
What planet are you living on? Many of those parties already have deregulated, lowered taxes, and cut welfare programs - on several different occasions.