Can a socialist party get to power in 2012 in USA?

[TrueLeninist]

HELLO ALL: I am new in this forum. I would like to ask if it is possible for a US Socialist Workers Party to rise to power electorally in the 2012 elections, since Republicans and Democrats couldn't prevent the US economy from collapsing, since the Democrats and Republicans don't know how to save the US economy, how to fix it and how to prevent USA from going bankrupt ???

Or do americans have to wait for 2016 elections for a socialist party to govern the USA? Or do we have to overthrow the US government in order for USA to become socialist?

Another thing, i don't understand why US citizens are so capitalists, when capitalism increases poverty and destroys the economies of nations. All i see is poverty, homelesses and hunger in USA. i don't really know why people say that USA is so "well" economically, that's the Hollywood Movies worldview that portrays and describes USA as a wealthy paradise with lots of dollars for all americans.

Take care all !!


TrueLeninist

[#FF0000]

No. And even if it could, so what? There's no strong working-class movement in the U.S. right now.

[Revy]

We cannot rationally come out with predictions of the future - some socialist groups in the past have all thought they were about to enter a revolutionary period.

It is possible, however, many would say it is not likely, but I think it is still possible. While some will inevitably have a silly anti-electoralism which causes them to be opposed to even the idea of possibly getting elected to power, there are others who take the opposite view, emphasizing elections only. And there are a third camp who will just say "Don't vote" regardless (some overlap might exist between the first and third). We should take a fourth view, to take whatever of these tactics we deem necessary temporarily.

[mel]

No. And even if it could, so what? There's no strong working-class movement in the U.S. right now.

This.

A socialist worker's party couldn't gain power in the US, and even if they did, they wouldn't have the power to actually do much. A lot of the things that we, as leftists, would want to accomplish would be completely unconstitutional. Major, lasting reforms would be nice, but if there were enough socialists in this country for a socialist party to take governmental power, it might be about time for a proper revolution.

All that said, we're not anywhere near there. There is no workers movement in the united states with any revolutionary ideas with any kind of power at all.

[TrueLeninist]

Man, how frustrating and depressive is our reality in USA. This means that either we have to wait for 2012 or 2016 or 2020 elections for socialist party to rise electorally. Or the US oppressed classes will have to be less lazy, less apathetic, and more politically active, more leftist, more united and overthrow the US capitalist system with a social revolution





No. And even if it could, so what? There's no strong working-class movement in the U.S. right now.

[gorillafuck]

Or do americans have to wait for 2016 elections for a socialist party to govern the USA? Or do we have to overthrow the US government in order for USA to become socialist?
The government will definitely need to be overthrown by a revolution. But that's not likely to happen in 2012 or 2016 in my opinion.

[TrueLeninist]

Eco Marxist: hi, your level of sociological education about USA is real good, and i agree 100% with you. Indeed, we can't predict the future. Although i question the extreme apathy and lack of emotions of most american citizens, of most average joes out there. I think that americans emotional systems have been tampered with so that they will never feel any natural passions and emotions like happiness, anger, vengeance, revenge (which is necessary passion for anti-capitalist revenge), even sexual drive is repressed in this culture. So what we have in USA is a nation of "Philosophical Zombies" and Brave New World citizens like in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World who don't care if their own living standards are going down as a result of concentration of wealth in a few.

Thanks


TrueLeninist



We cannot rationally come out with predictions of the future - some socialist groups in the past have all thought they were about to enter a revolutionary period.

It is possible, however, many would say it is not likely, but I think it is still possible. While some will inevitably have a silly anti-electoralism which causes them to be opposed to even the idea of possibly getting elected to power, there are others who take the opposite view, emphasizing elections only. And there are a third camp who will just say "Don't vote" regardless (some overlap might exist between the first and third). We should take a fourth view, to take whatever of these tactics we deem necessary temporarily.

[Revy]

I think we should push for a revolution.

Elections are a great spectacle to behold (this is sarcasm) - and we should continue to run candidates, but we should focus our energy on building a party, organizing, educating, and building revolutionary consciousness.

I just don't think we should give up on running candidates because elections do play a huge part in American politics.

So no, we don't have to wait until 2020, that's if we view our only option as incrementally increasing our votes in elections. We have to adopt a revolutionary mindset.

[teenagebricks]

Sure they could, coup d'état.

[Dimentio]

Of course its possible. But it is extremely unlikely.

If the Democrats fail, I guess the extreme right instead will gain a momentum.

[mel]

Of course its possible. But it is extremely unlikely.

If the Democrats fail, I guess the extreme right instead will gain a momentum.

Exactly. Obama was a lot of people's "Last hope". If he fails, then the extreme right were "right" that he was full of shit, and they'll see a resurgence. It's unfortunate so many people put all their faith in some scumbag politician, since inevitably, since he is a capitalist, he will ultimately fall short of all their expectations.

[TrueLeninist]

Hi my friend: What i fear in USA is not The Democrat Party nor the Republican Party. What i fear is the rise of a NAZI FASCIST messianic leader in America with the following combo of ideologies and doctrines:

Libertarianism + free market fundamentalism + evangelical christian zionism + white-nationalism + Adolf Hitler's and Nazi Germany's revisionism (There is a rise in Hitler's revisionism in America. Claiming that Hitler was a "victim of zionist jewish millionaire bankers" and not evil dictator like most History books say !!

These people are found in the Tea Party movement, Alex Jones, Jeff Rense's followers, and most white-nationalist, free market, conspiracy theory websites such as Infowars, Rense, Henry Makow's 'Save The Males' website, Illuminati-news, Educate-yourself.org, Prison Planet, even some of Glenn Beck's followers. Many of them are Republican Party voters, who hate Bush, Mccain and corporate capitalism, but who also hate socialism and communism, because they think that The Bolshevik-Revolution was funded by The Rothschild Dynasty Bankers and The Illuminati Order.

I know that the Rothschild Dynasty, The Morgans, The Rockefellers, and other 50 super-rich families of America and the world have lots of power, are trillionaires, zillionaires and control both political parties in America and in many other countries. However social uprisings and revolutions like FARC, Zaptistas, Bolivarian-Revolution, Cuban-Revolution, Russian-Revolution, American-Revolution in 1776, were just natural human reaction to abusive governments, and not "funded by bankers" like these Tea-Baggers New World Order people say.

TrueLeninist



Exactly. Obama was a lot of people's "Last hope". If he fails, then the extreme right were "right" that he was full of shit, and they'll see a resurgence. It's unfortunate so many people put all their faith in some scumbag politician, since inevitably, since he is a capitalist, he will ultimately fall short of all their expectations.

[Dimentio]

Hi my friend: What i fear in USA is not The Democrat Party nor the Republican Party. What i fear is the rise of a NAZI FASCIST messianic leader in America with the following combo of ideologies and doctrines:

Libertarianism + free market fundamentalism + evangelical christian zionism + white-nationalism + Adolf Hitler's and Nazi Germany's revisionism (There is a rise in Hitler's revisionism in America. Claiming that Hitler was a "victim of zionist jewish millionaire bankers" and not evil dictator like most History books say !!

These people are found in the Tea Party movement, Alex Jones, Jeff Rense's followers, and most white-nationalist, free market, conspiracy theory websites such as Infowars, Rense, Henry Makow's 'Save The Males' website, Illuminati-news, Educate-yourself.org, Prison Planet, even some of Glenn Beck's followers. Many of them are Republican Party voters, who hate Bush, Mccain and corporate capitalism, but who also hate socialism and communism, because they think that The Bolshevik-Revolution was funded by The Rothschild Dynasty Bankers and The Illuminati Order.

I know that the Rothschild Dynasty, The Morgans, The Rockefellers, and other 50 super-rich families of America and the world have lots of power, are trillionaires, zillionaires and control both political parties in America and in many other countries. However social uprisings and revolutions like FARC, Zaptistas, Bolivarian-Revolution, Cuban-Revolution, Russian-Revolution, American-Revolution in 1776, were just natural human reaction to abusive governments, and not "funded by bankers" like these Tea-Baggers New World Order people say.

TrueLeninist

You talk about this guy right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5ZrngCbvX4&feature=PlayList&p=D520035F8C6918A7&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=13

I don't seriously think that nazism is a viable alternative, mostly because the carnage caused by WW2. It has delegitimised nazism for ever.

But I think libertarianism mixtured with fascism is possible as a risk in America.

[TrueLeninist]

I don't hate Alex Jones and libertarians, i think Alex Jones and most libertarian conspiracy theorists and followers are well intentioned, and they want to save USA like most people want.

However i think that the problem is that there is very little socialist information, propaganda and socialist media in America, compared to libertarian, and capitalist information and media. One of the only places where people can get leftist ideology is the internet and even the internet has a lot more capitalist propaganda than socialist propaganda, and that's why many people in USA choose the libertarian conspiracy theory alternative, over the leftist-alternative as a solution for most USA's problems.

TrueLeninist



You talk about this guy right?

L5ZrngCbvX4

I don't seriously think that nazism is a viable alternative, mostly because the carnage caused by WW2. It has delegitimised nazism for ever.

But I think libertarianism mixtured with fascism is possible as a risk in America.

[redSHARP]

the thing to remember is, as long as the middle class can still act like the middle class with their houses, jobs, and 3 meals a day, nothing will ever really change in america.

[TrueLeninist]

Indeed and another thing that prevents a social revolution in the USA is that most people in America are too conformists. Most people in USA, conform to a life of food, but man cannot live by bread alone. Americans need more than just a lot of food, like more access to health services, cheaper utility services (as a result of nationalized utility services), higher wages, less crime, etc, to close all military bases and to stop the Imperial-Wars, to stop donating the zionist Israel state with 3 billions dollars a year, to stop donating 600 millions a year to Colombia (Israel # 2), to Saudi Arabia and other fascist states, to cancel the NAFTA, CAFTA treaties, which would create more jobs in America, and more good things that would benefit American citizens, many more things which would increase the depressive, boring living standards of Americans. Socialism would make USA less painful, americans as a whole would participate in the wealth, and joys produced by USA, instead of just a few Hollywood celebrities, like Tom Cruise, Jennifer Lopez, the Political celebrities (Obama, Dick Cheney, Pelosi etc.) while the majority of good hard working americans are alienated, rejected and banned from enjoying all the good things that USA and the world produces, and socialism can give us that a lot better than Democrat-Republicans governments can.
Socialism would make us richer

Trueleninist


the thing to remember is, as long as the middle class can still act like the middle class with their houses, jobs, and 3 meals a day, nothing will ever really change in america.

[Dimentio]

Indeed and another thing that prevents a social revolution in the USA is that most people in America are too conformists. Most people in USA, conform to a life of food, but man cannot live by bread alone. Americans need more than just a lot of food, like more access to health services, cheaper utility services (as a result of nationalized utility services), higher wages, less crime, etc, to close all military bases and to stop the Imperial-Wars, to stop donating the zionist Israel state with 3 billions dollars a year, to stop donating 600 millions a year to Colombia (Israel # 2), to Saudi Arabia and other fascist states, to cancel the NAFTA, CAFTA treaties, which would create more jobs in America, and more good things that would benefit American citizens, many more things which would increase the depressive, boring living standards of Americans. Socialism would make USA less painful, americans as a whole would participate in the wealth, and joys produced by USA, instead of just a few Hollywood celebrities, like Tom Cruise, Jennifer Lopez, the Political celebrities (Obama, Dick Cheney, Pelosi etc.) while the majority of good hard working americans are alienated, rejected and banned from enjoying all the good things that USA and the world produces, and socialism can give us that a lot better than Democrat-Republicans governments can.
Socialism would make us richer

Trueleninist

Most people in the USA do not have any trust for the federal government. Mitt Romney could institute universal healthcare in Massachusetts, while denying it on the federal level. I think you underestimate that a lot of people maybe are identifying more with their regions.

But in the same time, its a bit strange that people in the poor state are those who are rejecting distributionism. The Heartland and the South are those which would gain most from universal healthcare and education.

[FreeFocus]

The fact is that there is no functioning leftist opposition to Obama. Take his inauguration, for example - there wasn't a single soul, much less an entire organization, protesting. Contrast that with both Bush inaugurations, where thousands (and for the second, many thousands) protested.

It is literally impossible for a socialist party to be elected in 2012, and the likelihood of it ever occurring are slim to none, given sociological realities and election laws.

[thecoffeecake1]

i believe that at some point soon, people will realize the benefits of socialism. the socialist party USA is a great party and isn't too radical for those who aren't looking to radicalize the country like we are. that being said, 2012 is ambitious at best. as is 2016. but the people on this board are an ambitious bunch. i actually read about one guy who was gonna radicalize the whole cpusa and turn them against democracy.

[9]

No. First of all, for a major political party to come out of nowhere and take the highest office in the country between now and 2012 in the absence of a robust leftist movement (the strength and scale of which would necessarily have to be countless times greater than that of any other leftist movement in US history) would require a miracle, quite literally. Especially when considering that, even after eight years of blatant far-right failures (Bush), the present "Socialist" parties still performed so dismally in the 2008 elections (Roger Calero, Socialist Workers Party, received 7,561 votes; Brian Moore, Socialist Party USA, received 7,315 votes; and Gloria La Riva, Party for Socialism and Liberation, received 6,808 votes). In the history of the United States, the closest a Socialist candidate has ever been to winning a presidential election was the 1920 Eugene Debs ticket, and even then, he only received 6% of the vote. So unfortunately, at this point, I think even the Paul-tards (and I don't mean that pejoratively, of course :laugh:) would have a significantly better shot.
I'm not intentionally trying to be cynical here, I just think we need to be realistic. The first step is some sort of at least semi-unified widespread leftist movement, and if we don't have that, we certainly don't have any basis in reason or reality to daydream about the nearest presidential election being snatched up by a Socialist. Our work is most definitely cut out for us.

[Jack]

Meh, I expect the Libertarian Party to gain more momentum than the Left, of course, it will be the Libertarian Party in name and the Constitution Party in practice.

[TrueLeninist]

I think that the real reason of why most Americans are so politically apathetic is conformism. If you realize it, millions of americans today can only live a life of food and that's it, and nothing else.

Can most US citizens get a college degree? no, only middle bourgeoise and rich people can.

Can most US citizens get access to good dental and health services? no !! only rich people.

Can most US citizens have access to social life, social clubs, partying, night clubs, operas, theaters, vacation cruises, fitness centers, spas, plastic surgeries, psychology help, psychiatry help, travelling to other countries, tourism, etc? No, only upper bourgeoise classes in the USA can.

While the majority of exploited americans can only eat. And man cannot live by bread alone. Only those in the upper strata of USA are self realizing themselves, only those who earn above 80,000 a year can have a more or less full live, but for the majority life in USA is based on working, food, TV and that's it.




The fact is that there is no functioning leftist opposition to Obama. Take his inauguration, for example - there wasn't a single soul, much less an entire organization, protesting. Contrast that with both Bush inaugurations, where thousands (and for the second, many thousands) protested.

It is literally impossible for a socialist party to be elected in 2012, and the likelihood of it ever occurring are slim to none, given sociological realities and election laws.

[Dimentio]

Meh, I expect the Libertarian Party to gain more momentum than the Left, of course, it will be the Libertarian Party in name and the Constitution Party in practice.

Yes, I guess that as well. That could actually be beneficial to the democrats.