BNP gets 2 European seats...

[Revy]

:(

crazy shit....

[KC]

Fuck! Story here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8088133.stm

[rednordman]

As a person from the UK, im furious. And I say that knowing full well that people who believe in the far-fight are probably reading our post pissing themselves with sheer happiness.

Whats wrong with austria and holland ffs!!, is there zero unemployment or are they just too comfortable to realise that they are not born? sorry if anyone from those retrospective countries are offended. I would love to hear your opinions on this.

[Demogorgon]

Hopefully Griffin will fail to win a seat himself in which case this **** will soon think he should lead the party and cause them to tear themselves apart with infighting.

If he does also win a seat then we will just have to hope that they show the same incompetence and laziness there that they show in local Government.

All the same, this has to be put in perspective. One or two seats in the European Parliament is nothing. They can't do anything, I have never been as worried about the BNP as I have by the fact that people can come to hold these views whether they vote BNP or not. A racist voting Conservative or UKIP is no better than a racist voting BNP (or not voting at all for that matter).

What worries me is that the BNP might start being allowed to spread their poison on television more often than before and also other parties, Conservatives in particular, will use this as an excuse to become even more xenophobic claiming they want to "address legitimate concerns".

So we need to keep our heads regarding the BNP and focus our attention on the fact that many people hold such racist views. We can only do that by defending immigrants (and other minorities of course) giving a strong reason to people to see immigration as an unequivocably good thing. Getting too caught up on a minor party like the BNP rather than wider racism will only play into their hands.

[ls]

I just hope they don't win in the NW.

[rednordman]

I just hope they don't win in the NW. Its looking very bad at the moment.

[ls]

So-so, the guardian reckoned that they weren't gonna win the nw thanks to some leaked information.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/jun/07/european-elections-eu


9.05pm: Nick Robinson on the BBC says Lib Dems sources in the North West think Nick Griffin won't get a seat.

[rednordman]

So-so, the guardian reckoned that they weren't gonna win the nw thanks to some leaked information.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/jun/07/european-elections-eu I absolutly hope that you are correct..but the way things are shaping out, its like a nightmare.

Just seen the result of the euro-elections from the Czek rep..Respect!!!they are the only place in europe where the socialist party has done better than the conservatives. For a simple instance i jump for joy despite it not helping us.

[Demogorgon]

I absolutly hope that you are correct..but the way things are shaping out, its like a nightmare.

Just seen the result of the euro-elections from the Czek rep..Respect!!!they are the only place in europe where the socialist party has done better than the conservatives. For a simple instance i jump for joy despite it not helping us.That's not true. Despite what the BBC are saying that is by far the across the board picture. Greece has seen the right in major trouble for instance and you can see similar in Cyprus, Malta, Slovakia and so forth.

Plus other left groups like the hard-left and the Green groups are doing very well.

[ls]

That's not true. Despite what the BBC are saying that is by far the across the board picture. Greece has seen the right in major trouble for instance and you can see similar in Cyprus, Malta, Slovakia and so forth.

If you're talking about people abstaining then yeah, it's up from what I remember, which is good.

In quite a few places and especially in Poland, the picture isn't good though.


Plus other left groups like the hard-left and the Green groups are doing very well.

The fact that the green groups are doing well is not really a good thing...

[Wanted Man]

This came in handy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2009 Since it lists both the EU fractions, but also the names of the domestic parties.

The right are in trouble in some countries, but it's still hardly encouraging.

One particular thing I noticed: In Hungary, the social-democrats lost big time, while the far right won. One of their candidates is known for having said: "I would be glad if the so-called proud Hungarian Jews would go back to playing with their tiny little circumcised tail rather than vilifying me." :blink:

[Spirit of Spartacus]

This is bad news. We need to organize an anti-Fascist alternative, and we need to do it soon.

Anti-fascism itself needs to come out of the lets-go-beat-up-some-Nazis mentality, and join up with the immigrant workers in Britain, who will be the first targets of rising Fascism.

Of course, militant action against Fascists is necessary, but without mass work, it is useless.

In order to be able to work among immigrant workers, the anti-Fascist comrades in Britain will have to change some of their outlook and attitudes. A lot of them are doing it already, a lot more need to do it.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

One thing you must keep in mind about the results in Eastern Europe is that the "left" or "right" description means absolutely nothing. And I'm not talking about a situation like in the UK where parties have changed their old place on the political spectrum. I'm talking about them never having had a place to begin with.

Mainstream political parties in most of Eastern Europe are like rival feudal houses, or rival mafia families. They are not aligned with different class interests - not even with the interests of different sections of a class. And they certainly have no ideological loyalties. The only exception, as far as I know, are the Czech Communists.

A loss for social democrats in Eastern Europe is a loss for a party that is further right than New Labour. The situation in Hungary a few years ago, for example, was downright comical: The conservative opposition was fighting hard to stop a string of big privatizations by the "socialist" government. Outside the Czech Republic, and to a lesser extent Slovakia and parts of former Yugoslavia, there is no Left in Eastern Europe at all.

[ls]

Nick Griffin won the seat he coveted so much in the north-west, this is really really shitty.

[Demogorgon]

This is bad news. We need to organize an anti-Fascist alternative, and we need to do it soon.

Anti-fascism itself needs to come out of the lets-go-beat-up-some-Nazis mentality, and join up with the immigrant workers in Britain, who will be the first targets of rising Fascism.

Of course, militant action against Fascists is necessary, but without mass work, it is useless.

In order to be able to work among immigrant workers, the anti-Fascist comrades in Britain will have to change some of their outlook and attitudes. A lot of them are doing it already, a lot more need to do it.
This is exactly my point. Again the BNP and the two scum they send to Brussels are almost besides the point, but rather the racism that has been allowed to infest Britain. That won't go away through picking pointless street fights that make us look bad in the eyes of ordinary people. Support for the immigrant population is now utterly vital. Only by fighting mainstream anti-immigrant bigotry can we reverse this appalling trend.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Mainstream political parties in most of Eastern Europe are like rival feudal houses, or rival mafia families. They are not aligned with different class interests - not even with the interests of different sections of a class. And they certainly have no ideological loyalties.


Well if there is some political difference between them, it would suggest that they do represent different factions of the ruling-class.
No? :confused:

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Well if there is some political difference between them, it would suggest that they do represent different factions of the ruling-class.
No? :confused:
But that's just it, there isn't any political difference between them. And I mean that in the most literal sense. They don't just have the same policies - they have the same people. It is common, for example, for MPs from the losing party to defect to the winning party after an election. MPs and other elected officials switch between rival parties all the time.

Certainly, the rival parties do represent rival factions of the ruling class to some extent, but these factions are extremely short-lived and change all the time. You will not find, for example, one party representing finance capital and another representing the petty bourgeoisie. Instead you will find three parties representing three different groups within finance capital, and these three parties might merge into one in a few months, then a splinter wing might break off and so on.

[Yazman]

Great, we failed in one of the most absolutely fucking pathetic ways the left can ever fail - we lost to fuckin NAZIS. I've alluded to it before but I think that some of the results in this election reflect very strongly on how the left are doing there.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I must point out that, Europe-wide, the Left did not lose. It failed to advance, but it did not lose. The Left group in the EU Parliament has 35 seats, as compared to 37 seats in the last Parliament - but then this Parliament is smaller, so that's to be expected. We still have more seats than the Nazis, for what it's worth.

[redSHARP]

whats our next move?

[political_animal]

As someone who now finds himself in the unfortunate and unenviable position of being represented by Nick Griffin in the European Parliament, I could focus on how it is a sad day - not just for leftists - but for anyone slightly to the left of Attila The Hun, but before we all proclaim the dawning of a terrible new era, I think it worth pointing out that this ISN'T a ringing endorsement of fascist politics in the North West.

The BNP actually received LESS votes this time than they did 5 years ago, despite Nick Griffin making a concerted push to get a seat. I did my bit by voting Green - the only viable chance we had to attempt to stop him getting in - and quite a few others did as well. The Green vote went up significantly on five years ago and indeed, were only 5,000 votes short of taking the seat instead of the BNP.

Yes it is a terrible day, but lets not go overboard. You would hardly call the North West a hotbed of Green radical activism and yet the BNP only just beat them. The other aspect is that (from what I can gather of the D'Hondt voting system for Euro elections) UKIP were only a couple thousand votes short of claiming an extra seat in the place of the BNP as well.

The main issue at this election, is that Labour are so unpopular nationally - but also in their North West heartland - that they lost 240,000 votes in the region on 5 years ago. The BNP 'only' managed 8.0% of the votes and considering the turnout was just 31.7%, it means that very, very few people voted for Griffin. Incidentally, turnout was down from over 40% last time, so the BNP have actually gained the seat through the massive wave of anger and resentment caused by the MP's expenses scandal and has resulted in voters turning away from voting.

The BNP won through apathy and disenchantment with the political system. It was NOT because people in the North West want or admire them.

Next time, we should hopefully see Griffin chucked back out, unfortunately for me - and the other 97% of people in the North West who didn't vote for the BNP - we are going to see that fascist twat on our TV screens regularly over the next 5 years.

[Das war einmal]

Pro-free market parties won overall. This is diminishing my faith in humanity, for real.

[rednordman]

Pro-free market parties won overall. This is diminishing my faith in humanity, for real.which is absolutly spellbinding, because it is exactly, the 'free'-market policies that got us into this mess in the first place. They even where saying this on the BBCs coverage to the elections, and they very rarely question the market nowadays. In fact it made me laugh at how they where describing anti-capitalist parties as 'reformist' parties who "want to CHANGE capitalism":rolleyes:wtf!..Like there is no other alternatives.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Let's keep this into perspective. The total number of seats of the pro-free market parties increased by 23 as compared with five years ago. Out of 736 seats, that's an increase of only 3.1%. This was a victory for the status quo more than a victory for the right, with all changes being very, very small. No one went up or down more than a few percentage points.

The right isn't advancing so much as the left is failing to take advantage of the economic crisis.

[cheisgreat]

I've been reading some comments on the Daily Mail website which, depending on the individual, may make you laugh or make you angry.

"This result for the British National Party is a fantastic victory and the beginning of the end for the Marxist extremists running this Country.

It shows that the people haven't been taken in by the lies and smears of the left and are able to make up their own minds and do the right thing.

A historic day in the struggle to reclaim our Country from the Nation wreckers.

So well done BNP, and good luck to Andrew Brons!
- GeorgeCross, Portsmouth, England,"

"Yes it was a protest vote. The British public have plenty to protest about. Well done BNP. The look on traitor Brown's face is the look of defeat. The time has come for all the Marxist wreckers who have brought Brtain to it;s knees to consider their future. John Vanbar, Crawley, England, 8/6/2009 "

"I cannot understand the main political parties in the UK; they are in a state of denial. To put the current crisis over M.P's expenses as the reason for the success of the BNP is utter rubbish. The BNP followers were growing in number long before the greed of M.P's was heard of.
The reason for their popularity is that the British people know they are being ignored.
The majority of the indigenous population do not want:
Blair & Brown's wars and British troops losing multiple limbs getting less that a Secretary with repetative strain problems.
The mess we call the European Union with the gravy train there that is worse that the one in Westminster,
Mass immigration.
The stupid political correctness.
The over the top Health and safety Brigade.
Prisoners released from cushy prisons early.
Unless main parties listen this will only be the FIRST seat BNP wins.
- Dave, Cockermouth England, 8/6/2009 0:44"


It doesn't give you much hope, does it? Obviously it's the Daily (hate) Mail. But still...

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I'm actually very glad that the BNP uses the term "Marxists" for everyone they oppose. Being hated by the BNP above all else gives us good publicity among non-racist people. It's a badge of honour to be the no. 1 enemy of Nazis.

[cheisgreat]

I'm actually very glad that the BNP uses the term "Marxists" for everyone they oppose. Being hated by the BNP above all else gives us good publicity among non-racist people. It's a badge of honour to be the no. 1 enemy of Nazis.

I suppose that is one way of looking at it and we're better off having Labour, Lib Dems etc. on 'our side' as such. But these people who left comments are so deluded that they think of Labour as being Marxist, sorry what? It makes me angry that these sorts of people actually exist, I mean how brain washed are these people? It's only when you see opinions in black and white- you realise how f'ed up the public's views are. The amount of people who are anti-immigration and therefore racist seems to be increasing and I think the BNP's wave of publicity will make it even more acceptable to have racist views.

[Sam_b]

Just seen the result of the euro-elections from the Czek rep..Respect!!!they are the only place in europe where the socialist party has done better than the conservatives. For a simple instance i jump for joy despite it not helping us.

No, not at all. The ODS has 9 seats to the CSSD's 7. And unless you're the sort of person that calls the Labour Party 'socialists' there's no way in hell that the CSSD matches this description.

[political_animal]

I just think half the people that vote BNP are deluded about their situation. There was a bloke on the radio this morning saying he voted BNP because there were 'all these laws to protect gays, lesbians, blacks and asians. When are there going to be laws to protect heterosexual white males?' When you're dealing with people that think like that, there just isn't going to be getting through to them. Absolutely delusional.

And the second thing was, there seemed to be two kinds of BNP voters phoning up. Those that disliked the racism of the BNP but felt 'something has to be done' which is basically anyone that uses the phrase 'I'm not racist, but...' and those that just were racist and didn't particularly care about it.

Whilst all the hand-wringing commentators sat through the Nick Griffin election moment and condemned it as disgraceful and how could this have been allowed to happen, the only one that made any sense was Daniel Finkelstein (an ex-Tory candidate) who simply said 'there is a swathe of racist people in Britain'. OK, neither he (or any of the others) proposed any solutions but at least he understood the crux of the matter - that some people are simply racist - than trying to pursue this ridiculous idea that all voters are nice, fluffy, liberal things that somehow only vote BNP to kick the main parties. Unless we acknowledge that there are some people who think the BNP are a good idea, we will never successfully respond to their attacks, or be able to respond to an average member of the public who thinks the best response to the failings of the mainstream political parties, is to vote fascist.

[Hit The North]

I've edited the title to include the head scumbag's election victory.

[NecroCommie]

When the revolution spreads, those scumbags will be the first to face the firing squad.

The finnish extreme nationalists had an alliance with the christian party (this shows how "progressive" religion truly is). They got two seats. The green party and the left-alliance (reformist socialist/ extreme social democrat) both got one.

[NecroCommie]

Pro-free market parties won overall. This is diminishing my faith in humanity, for real.
Most citizens of the western world have a great interest to defend imperialism, since our welfare is based upon it. Now those recreationists cling to the past with their dear lives, especially when the living conditions of some 3rd world countries have started to improve, and the financial crisis is upsetting the public.

With the grip of capitalism squeezing even harder than before, it is but a matter of time before the 3rd world starts revolting. Lets see where we get our labor and raw material then.

[brigadista]

Its important to monitor what they DONT do when they get in. Seems like those BNP councillors that were voted into local seats [see Barking] did nothing and didnt attend many meeting whilst happy to take the expenses money.

i think they will be out of their depth in the Euro Parliament and wont attend meetings or do anything locally in the NW.

It has to be asked , will they refuse to listen to or particpate in any debates that are not in english?

They dont have a viable manifesto even in parliamentary political terms.

this was a new Labour protest vote.

[Pogue]

I think the funniest tinhg about this is that all the hystericals are ranting about how this represents the BNP beginning to influence public opinion to a great deal, when in reality, they got less support in this election than they did in 2004. The voting system allocated them 2 seats however, because of the different electoral system. Their support has, in fact, dropped.

[rednordman]

No, not at all. The ODS has 9 seats to the CSSD's 7. And unless you're the sort of person that calls the Labour Party 'socialists' there's no way in hell that the CSSD matches this description. I know what you mean but I expected them to go even more conservative to due them having the most successfull economy from after the former soviet block.

[Stark]

The BNP did not make any major gains in terms of the popular vote. Jeremy Corbyn explained that their performance was attributable to how Labour voters stayed home. European elections do not have much relevance anyway.

It is misguided to exaggerate the influence of the BNP, for it distracts from the struggle against the class enemy represented by "New Labour" and the Torries.