What do you all think of Ralph Nader?

[GiantBear91]

What is your view on him? Do you think he would actually be a good leader?

[Il Medico]

Don't be a Hater vote for Nader!:laugh:
No, I would never vote for him. He is a capitalist from what I can tell. Haven't heard much about his polices though.
Vote for Captain Jack! Hugs for everyone!!! :D

[GiantBear91]

XD nice Comrade...

[Revy]

He got 1% of the vote, he still gets in 3rd place every time.

However, he has never questioned capitalism, and has some reactionary anti-immigration views...it's on the record, him saying "we can't have open borders" and other things.

The only reason he was ever in the news was when he called Barack Obama an "Uncle Tom" and said he was "talking white".

I think he continues to get so many votes because of the name recognition, people know who Ralph Nader is more than any person independent of the two parties, he is running without a party now, at least for the time being.

He used to get a lot of support from some "socialist" groups in the US but in 2008 Socialist Alternative (CWI) was the only group that I know of that endorsed him. Others like Solidarity and the Workers' International League (IMT) flocked to the also-capitalist McKinney campaign.

[pierrotlefou]

I voted for him last election. Not that voting means anything or that I even really support him.

[ZeroNowhere]

The only reason he was ever in the news was when he called Barack Obama an "Uncle Tom" and said he was "talking white".I'm hoping that you're not attacking him there, he was making a valid enough point in the face of all of the crap about this being a 'historic day for blacks' and crap: Obama wouldn't improve the lot of black USians any more than McCain, regardless of being the first black President.

That said, I'd put Nader at the same level as Gompers and Brian Moore. That is, above Hitler but below Bush.

[Qayin]

Nader's a cappie. Hes a moderate leftist

[Revy]

I'm hoping that you're not attacking him there, he was making a valid enough point in the face of all of the crap about this being a 'historic day for blacks' and crap: Obama wouldn't improve the lot of black USians any more than McCain, regardless of being the first black President.


Not attacking what he meant, just how he presented it.

[Ismail]

Apparently he has taken rather rightist views on immigration too, but I have no source.

Basically, he's a moderate social democrat whereas his opponents are neo-liberals. They're all capitalists, Nader just happens to be able to present himself as a "man of the people", which in reality is far from the truth. He isn't anti-imperialist, even. A decent "exposé" from a bourgeois politics website has a thing on him: http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm

"Socialists" voted for him in 2000 because they thought he differed from the norm. They voted for him in 2004 because they hated Bush and saw Kerry as a corporate type (for Nader voters "the corporations" are all that matters, no discussion of class struggle), and they voted for him in 2008 because they felt both candidates were phony corporate types. I actually recall a friend noting that those who voted for Nader in 2000 (when he was the Green Party candidate) were almost all from well-to-do petty-bourgeois and even some outright bourgeois backgrounds.

He's irrelevant now and has been since 2000. I liked him better when he was simply a consumer advocate who alerted people to bad products and the lack of proper regulations for cars back in the 1960's, that's all he really deserves to be remembered as and for. The fact that "socialists" were relatively united around voting for him in 2000 rather than for candidates at least claiming to be nominally socialist just makes me roll my eyes.

The last non-socialist worth voting for was Henry A. Wallace in 1948.

All-in-all, socialists trying to "change the system" via reformism is depressing.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

No, he is definitely just a liberal.

[x359594]

Comrade Ismail said it best, but I would add that he does articulate a consistent critique of corporate capitalism's effects on the enviorment, waste, consumer robbery and fraud. I have no doubt that his presidential campaigns are done in the spirit of raising issues that are otherwise ignored rather than serious attempts to capture the White House. He's also opposed the Israel lobby.

[Random Precision]

for Nader voters "the corporations" are all that matters, no discussion of class struggle

This is true, but I think that for many of the people who joined his campaign, his anti-corporate message necessarily translated into an anti-capitalist message at a certain point. It was for these people that socialists were around his campaign, because it became something more significant than just Nader and his crusade against the two-party system. However in 2008 he was mostly undercut by Obama, so his campaign was not worth supporting.

[Revy]

This is true, but I think that for many of the people who joined his campaign, his anti-corporate message necessarily translated into an anti-capitalist message at a certain point. It was for these people that socialists were around his campaign, because it became something more significant than just Nader and his crusade against the two-party system. However in 2008 he was mostly undercut by Obama, so his campaign was not worth supporting.

Well everyone to the left of Obama was undercut by him.

The socialist parties combined (PSL+SPUSA+SWP) got the lowest vote percentage of combined socialist tickets.....since 1888, 120 years ago.

And really, I oppose this rhetoric about how an economic crisis is going to benefit our parties, there is no guarantee of that. The Great Depression did not help socialist parties, if anything socialist parties came out of it worse off in support than before.

I don't think we should blame this left-socialist vacuum entirely or even mostly on the remnants of the "Red Scare" or our electoral system - we have to take some of the blame, no matter how perfect we might think our parties are, they're not.

I do think we have to really push forward, and provide a real alternative to the Green Party and the Nader movement, and the two parties, with anti-capitalism instead of soft-capitalism. I think we have some tactical errors that must be overcome.

That was really the only thing missing from the Green Party. Socialism. I do think voting Green is becoming passé, even as the Green Party still gets hundreds of thousands of votes, its members are shifting to the right, becoming quasi-Democrats or switching to Democrat (Richard Carroll, formerly highest elected Green).

I think one of our goals should be (aside from trying to recruit socialists in general), attract the most radical wing of the Greens/Nader movement, basically socialist, and I'm sure there are many. When it comes to increasing our numbers, we should start where it is easiest and move from there. This does not mean we should let our movement become less revolutionary, less socialist just to get more members.

[Verix]

However, he has never questioned capitalism, and has some reactionary anti-immigration views...it's on the record, him saying "we can't have open borders" and other things.
funny, His parents were immigrants from lebanon

[IcarusAngel]

I think he's great. He's the only one who will talk about real issues, like homelessness and so on:

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If you watch his channel he also has a video where he shows the similarities between McCain and Obama on a whole host of important issues and then shows how he's the only real alternative. He talks about important issues and makes people aware of corporate corruption, fascism, and so on.

In fact, I more often than not have to speak more like a Naderian than a Marxist when it comes to issues like corporate welfare just so I can be understood by your average person.

[Comrade B]

He is progressive by western standards. I think if it were more acceptable, he would adapt further left views, however I would not vote for him. The PSL is a better alternative and has just as terrible of a chance of election.

[teenagebricks]

He's the best capitalist on Earth, that isn't saying much, but still. He does take a very progressive stance on some issues which I feel strongly about, and his heart is in the right place, for the most part at least, if there was a real chance of him ever winning (and if I lived in America) I would seriously consider voting for him, without illusions of course, he is still a capitalist. He is very popular as third party candidates go, I don't see why he doesn't just run for Congress.

[Ismail]

I think he's great. He's the only one who will talk about real issues, like homelessness and so onHe does speak about these things, but he's still a social-democrat.


If you watch his channel he also has a video where he shows the similarities between McCain and Obama on a whole host of important issues and then shows how he's the only real alternative. He talks about important issues and makes people aware of corporate corruption, fascism, and so on.So do many in the US Progressive movement. They still ignore class struggle beyond populism. Saying "McCain and Obama aren't so different" isn't exactly revolutionary, plenty of people say that, even anti-communists, even Alex Jones types.


In fact, I more often than not have to speak more like a Naderian than a Marxist when it comes to issues like corporate welfare just so I can be understood by your average person.While you may speak like that so people can understand you, there's a difference between that and actually being Ralph Nader.