Nazis win 2 seats in UK local elections...

[Cheung Mo]

Two women...Sharon Wilkinson and some Nazi-sympathizing asshole named Deidre Gates. If I were a religious man, I would be praying that neither of them makes it to the next election, by which I mean that they are forced to resign from more than just their seats.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/05/local-elections-bnp-ukip-green-party

Let's hope Nick Griffin suffers an "unfortunate" accident should he be elected to Brussels.

[h0m0revolutionary]

Not long won their 3rd seat in Oxley :/.

Averaging 11% of the vote, but no guarantee they'll replicate such in the Euro elections due to be counted on Sunday evening.

[Cheung Mo]

Not long won their 3rd seat in Oxley :/.

Averaging 11% of the vote, but no guarantee they'll replicate such in the Euro elections due to be counted on Sunday evening.

Hopefully the 10 or Scots and Welsh who voted are all in the tank for the Greens or the SSP.

[Dimentio]

They are not nazi. They are fascist. There is'nt really so much differences. Only that fascists has replaced "ZOG" with "Eurabia".

[Radical]

Their Nationalist, Racist, Fascists, they may aswel be Nazis.

[ls]

They won a seat in south Oxhey on herts county council. Most of Hertfordsire is pretty conservative from my experience of it, they have previously had councillors in many wards there - especially over south herts which incidentally holds the BNP headquarters in Waltham Cross, previously the national front had a lot of ground in this county and recently a national front parish councillor was in in Markyate in herts (he soon switched to the BNP). There definitely isn't enough grassroots opposition in herts unfortunately.

The extremely worrying one though is Burnley west, an area renowned for its massive problems with racism, no doubt the BNP will be celebrating this win very much.

[Sam_b]

Hopefully the 10 or Scots and Welsh who voted are all in the tank for the Greens or the SSP.

No Scottish councils are up for vote in the election. Thankfully right now in Scotland the BNP have no chance of winning in any election - local or otherwise. The main problem is the North West of England where the Nazis might be picking up a seat or two. On that point i'm not too sure what Dimentio is on about - a group which apparently has C18 members in its ranks and a leader which is notorious for denying the Holocaust (and not the modern day 'light' revisionism he has been showing - i'm talking about the Cook Report circa 1997 et al where Griffin himself said that 'this nonsense about gas chambers needs exposed as a total lie' - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvd7s-t47o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvd7s-t47o) - sounds pretty Nazi to me.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Averaging 11% of the vote, but no guarantee they'll replicate such in the Euro elections due to be counted on Sunday evening.
11%!? That's enormous! What happened? :(

[bellyscratch]

11%!? That's enormous! What happened? :(

No doubt its too big, but thats only in the places they're standing. They're not a big enough party to have someone standing in every ward like the big 3 parties. The overall proportional vote would be less than this I think. But even so, it's too big like I said before...

[redSHARP]

so for us USA boys across the pond, could you guys give me a list of all BNP elected officials by county?

[Bright Banana Beard]

I suggested we do what BPSocialist told us when BNP are elected. If anyone know what I mean.

[h0m0revolutionary]

11%!? That's enormous! What happened? :(

It is a high percentage, but it's important to rationalise them first. I mean they're scary taken at face value because if they were to replicate these percentages in the Euro Elections (due to be counted tomorrow night) then we'd certainly be in dire straights.

I'm ever the optimist, but I tinhk there are some important considerations to be taken form these that can to some degree, lessen our fears of a BNP victory (in that they gain seats in the European Parliament)

1) That in many of these local election contests there were two, three or four candidates. Mnay voters therefore will have voted BNP for a whole range of reasons, many of them not ideological and many more not in line with their voting in the Euro elections. The BNP may have done particually well in local elections for example as often in such contests where the candidates were so small in number, they would have been the only non-mainstream political Party. Given the huge election scandels and dissatisfaction with the main political Parties then it's not unfothomable that BNP gained from that just as any fringe party would have done. Simple protesting voting.

2) In the Euro elections the BNP will not be faced with a few mainstream political orginisaitons, but 8, 9, 10 other political orginisations. Moreover they will not be the only orginisaion formly on the far right competing for that section of the vote. There will be the Christian Peoples Party, the English Democrats, UKIP and a variety of other centre-right, pro-immigration controls, Euro-sceptic orginisations to compete with. This will very much diminish their share of the vote

3) UKIP and BNP did not contest approximatly 80% of one anothers seats in the local election contests. This is not the same for the European Elections where UKIP and BNP will be the main contenders for the racist, euro-sceptic and anti-mainstream Party protest votes. And all indications are UKIP are to do very well. Simple logistics then would say that to maximise impact voters would chose UKIP over BNP.

4) This 11% isn't especially high, it's remained more or less consistent (slight increase) since the last local elections. Where they have increased their share of the vote, i's has not been isolated, it is something that other fringe parties (Greens, England First etc.) have also enjoyed. This can be seen in the fact that the share of the vote fell from 44% in 2008 to 38% in these local elections for the tories, but they have so far managed to gain over 200 councillors.

[political_animal]

The trouble with being on the left of politics and looking on in horror as the BNP get elected in the odd place, is that it is impossible for us to understand why people could possibly vote for them. WE, would think that BNP voters would either be rabid racists, or just doing it as a protest vote. Unfortunately, it simply isn't that easy.

I know a number of people who are normal, every day folk, who for some inexplicable (to me) reason, are happy to vote BNP. The fact of the matter is, no matter how much we shout about the BNP being racists, it doesn't matter one iota to the casual BNP voter for two reasons 1) they don't believe they are a racist party, or 2) they don't care that they are a racist party.

The most common thing I hear is, "there are too many immigrants". Like I said, these are normal, average, every day people, who don't have skinheads or wear jack boots, who in any other light, you would consider to be rational. You simply can't get through to them that either immigration is good or beneficial to the economy, or that no matter how much they believe the country is 'being swamped' the population is still over 90% white, or that we have a moral responsibility to people from either the old Empire/Commonwealth or to dispossessed people or refugees from around the world. They simply see one or two non-white faces and for them, that's enough.

The other part of this of course, is that with the expansion of the EU, there are more white immigrants entering the UK, from other parts of the EU. Despite the fact that we have open borders with every other EU country, BNP voters don't think it right that non-Brits be allowed in to Britain and this informs their wish to leave the EU.

As for Burnley, quite why they should so readily vote for the BNP is curious. There has been a recent history of trouble with racially motivated attacks and violence but the percentage of the population that is non-white, isn't that much greater than a number of other towns where such things don't haapen in such large amounts. It is a very deprived and economically depressed area, which of course is always going to be a factor for the 'they're taking our jobs brigade' and Burnley always gives off the aura of being a very insular town, but quite why they should regularly vote BNP when just 15 miles down the road in Preston, they regularly vote for a Socialist at local elections, despite have a similar ethnic minority population is bemusing.

But let's not forget that the BNP targetted the North West as being their top priority at these elections and the leader Nick Griffin was the number 1 pick on the list for the Euro election. As the Euro/council elections were held on the same day, it is likely that the BNP were able to get more of their voters out, given such a high-profile presence.

As lefties (of what ever flavour) it is of course our duty to oppose the fascists but lets not get lost in our own hyperbole. Whilst we know why people shouldn't vote BNP, there are average every day voters out there, who simply have no problem in voting for them. They are not delusional. They are not wrong. They are not misguided. They are doing what is perfectly reasonable under a parliamentary democracy and voting for the party of their choice. If the BNP get elected despite our arguments, it is US that are at fault for their gains, not the voters. We need to meet the voters on THEIR level and deal with the issues and gain some understanding of why they are happy to vote BNP. To claim that it is a mere protest vote misses the reality of the situation. A lot of voters vote for them because they think the BNP are right.

THIS is the challenge we face. We must show that we are stonger working together and present facts as to why the BNP and their policies would make things worse. To simply throw about the argument that they are racist and therefore don't vote for them, doesn't work. We need to address the real issues and provide real solutions to the problems. Only then will we be able to drag support away from them. Unil then, and whilst politicians refuse to share a platform and fail to debate with the fascists, the BNP are going to make gains.

[ls]

Apparently the BNP feel they would like to setup their main headquarters in Lancashire http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/news/prestoncitizen/4359672.BNP_leader_could_set_up_office_in_Lancashi re/ relocated from Hertfordshire.

This win for them is basically pretty bad for us.

[political_animal]

Apparently the BNP feel they would like to setup their main headquarters in Lancashire http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/news/prestoncitizen/4359672.BNP_leader_could_set_up_office_in_Lancashi re/ relocated from Hertfordshire.

This win for them is basically pretty bad for us.

The article doesn't actually say that. It says they want to set up a NORTH-WEST headquarters between Colne and Preston (so that will be Burnley then!). As well as having an office in Manchester or Liverpool.

Don't overplay their influence, they won the same amount of seats on Lancashire County Council as the Idle Toad party...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_Council_election,_2009

[ls]

The article doesn't actually say that.

Ok fair enough, it says if elected - even then it isn't a certainty by any means.


It says they want to set up a NORTH-WEST headquarters between Colne and Preston (so that will be Burnley then!). As well as having an office in Manchester or Liverpool.

Yeah they want to set up, I never said they will.


Don't overplay their influence, they won the same amount of seats on Lancashire County Council as the Idle Toad party...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_Council_election,_2009

True, but the fact it happened in Burnley is definitely not good.

[political_animal]

Ok fair enough, it says if elected - even then it isn't a certainty by any means.
True, but the fact it happened in Burnley is definitely not good.

No, what I meant was, it merely says they wanted to open an office in the NW, not move their main HQ there.

I agree it's not good, but the BNP do have a history of being elected on Burnley Council. They have managed to expand that on to the County Council but of course, tht seat came from Burnley. There isn't much evidence so far that they are making such increases in their popularity elsewhere in Lancashire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnley_Council_election,_2008

[ls]

No, what I meant was, it merely says they wanted to open an office in the NW, not move their main HQ there.

True and my bad, but it said "LANCASHIRE could become the North West headquarters". The word headquarters stuck out in my mind, if it is a north-western hq as opposed to just an office that's still pretty shit in my book and should be stopped with grassroots opposition.


I agree it's not good, but the BNP do have a history of being elected on Burnley Council. They have managed to expand that on to the County Council but of course, tht seat came from Burnley. There isn't much evidence so far that they are making such increases in their popularity elsewhere in Lancashire

Yeah that's a good point and something to bear in mind. I definitely think more grassroots opposition needs to come out in Burnley (btw did you notice that even in the comments section on that news article I linked, most people are attacking the BNP viciously).

[JimmyJazz]

If the BNP get elected despite our arguments, it is US that are at fault for their gains, not the voters.

To blame any group of people for the success of the BNP is a pretty shallow explanation.

I think a materialist analysis of the anti-immigrant impulse is sorely needed.

[political_animal]

The word headquarters stuck out in my mind, if it is a north-western hq as opposed to just an office that's still pretty shit in my book and should be stopped with grassroots opposition.

Very true. Interesting the BNP mentioned they were looking to have it 'between Preston and Colne' though. Preston actually has a higher percentage of non-white ethnicity than Burnley and far from having similar issues with the BNP, the RESPECT party has stood for election in a number of wards and even had one councillor voted on to Preston Council (Michael Lavelette, who is ostensibly from the SWP), as opposed to the BNP, who haven't even bothered to stand in any wards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Council_election_2007

Preston isn't as economically downtrodden as Burnley and although there is a thriving university, it is far from a huge metropolis and certainly has a number of problem areas (Incidentally, another fascist party - the England First Party are based in Preston, their leader a former NF and BNP member who was also in the White Nationalist Party with a former key figure of Combat 18).

The BNP have just preyed on a certain part of Burnley that is significantly problematic in terms of economic issues, allied to a high ethnic minority population (a favourite ploy of the BNP) and with the rising distrust of all mainstream politicians, have used this to their advantage to get on to the county council.


did you notice that even in the comments section on that news article I linked, most people are attacking the BNP viciously

Yes indeed. Good to see that even when some of their townsfolk have voted that way, there are others willing to stand up and be counted.