Conspiratology

[Dimentio]

Conspiratology is a growing movement in all of the western world. More and more people are searching themselves to persons like Jones, Icke and similar. The 9/11 movement is quite massive.

I would actually claim that conspiratology is an attempt to create a unified image of the world, an image where the elite stands against the people. The elite, according to conspiratologists, wants to privatise all resources, make America wage war in the Middle East, desecrate American/European traditions and turn USA over to the UN-imposed communist dictatorship under control of Jewish bankers and mega-corporations.

I would claim that conspiratologists got it right that there is a struggle between the people and the elite, but they ignore all class issues and claim that all talk of class struggle only will serve the elite.

What is your opinion about conspiratology? As long as this crisis continues, the pink elephant of conspiratology will continue to grow, so the question is:

A: Are conspiratologists delusional?

B: Are they deceiving the public on purpose?

C: Are they a legitimate resistance movement against policies which happen to have differentiating opinions?

D: Are they reactionaries who most be fought through anti-fascist methods?

Tell me about your thoughts.

Ciao.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

A: Are conspiratologists delusional?

Very definately yes. Go to AboveTopSecret.com and you will see what I mean.


B: Are they deceiving the public on purpose?Maybe some of the ones who are flogging stuff are, but unfortunately it seems that most conspiratologists genuinely believe in the stuff they spout, and so are unwittingly decieving the public.

Having said that though, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if conspiratologists had "mental defence mechanisms" against rational argument, much like religious fundamentalists do. I believe the inherent unfalsifiability of conspiracy theories is a good example of this.


C: Are they a legitimate resistance movement against policies which happen to have differentiating opinions?No. In my experience conspiratologist theory is deeply flawed and their "activism" seems limited to garish websites and the occasional sandwhich board.


D: Are they reactionaries who most be fought through anti-fascist methods?Some of them are. The rest of them simply cannot consciously accept the fact that reality is mundane, so they concoct elaborate stories that appeal to their desires and prejudices.

Conspiratology isn't an attempt to change the world. It's a different "script" for it. Despite the world ticking along nicely with the non-appearance of aliens, the NWO, and all that stuff, the conspiratologist explains it away as part of the conspiracy - "everything is normal, that's what they want you to think!"

Yeah, how convenient. :rolleyes:

[Dimentio]

Conspiratologists cannot change the world, but I think some of them are trying. Why are they then arranging demonstrations, pickets and some kind of activism?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Conspiratologists cannot change the world, but I think some of them are trying. Why are they then arranging demonstrations, pickets and some kind of activism?

They're decieving themselves. If the ruling class was powerful enough and unified enough in purpose to carry out the kind of conspiracies that conspiratologists go on about, what the hell kind of difference would activism make?

[Dimentio]

They're decieving themselves. If the ruling class was powerful enough and unified enough in purpose to carry out the kind of conspiracies that conspiratologists go on about, what the hell kind of difference would activism make?

They think they could accomplish a revolution and tear down the WTO by protesting against 9/11 and "enlighten the people" about "what really happened".

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

They think they could accomplish a revolution and tear down the WTO by protesting against 9/11 and "enlighten the people" about "what really happened".

What has the World Trade Organisation got to do with 9/11?

[Dimentio]

What has the World Trade Organisation got to do with 9/11?

I meant... the NWO, or the Illuminati :D

[Qayin]

Guys if they knew about marxism they would join us in seconds. There politics suck,but they seem willing to make the world a better place...not the anti-semitic ones and reactionarys like Jones/Icke and the jews people. People like the zeitgeisters and the truthers(Which I do believe 9-11 was an inside job but this isnt what this thread is about) would come to us if they knew what we were all about.

Us leftists really do need a big internet documentary. ;)
There in the thought zone which they believe capitalism would work if you jsut take out the bad apples,we need to show them there views on socialism,and communism are wrong and how its capitalism itself is the problem not these bad apples who are a symptom of the disease.

[Dimentio]

Guys if they knew about marxism they would join us in seconds. There politics suck,but they seem willing to make the world a better place...not the anti-semitic ones and reactionarys like Jones/Icke and the jews people. People like the zeitgeisters and the truthers(Which I do believe 9-11 was an inside job but this isnt what this thread is about) would come to us if they knew what we were all about.

Us leftists really do need a big internet documentary. ;)
There in the thought zone which they believe capitalism would work if you jsut take out the bad apples,we need to show them there views on socialism,and communism are wrong and how its capitalism itself is the problem not these bad apples who are a symptom of the disease.

A large segment of the Zeitgeist movement (including Peter Joseph) are adherents to the Venus Project, which could be defined as a neo-utopian communist movement.

[Qayin]

I know that,I watched that movie and it came off as a weird technocracy type communism. I really liked it actually,but how would we get from here to there?

Im saying is that we should show the internet crowed what marxism is all about.

[Dimentio]

I know that,I watched that movie and it came off as a weird technocracy type communism. I really liked it actually,but how would we get from here to there?

Im saying is that we should show the internet crowed what marxism is all about.

That's why I am critical to the Venus Project. They talk a lot of what they want, and what they want is long-term feasible. But what they do not talk about is how to get there. But not all technocratic organisations are like TVP. I could recommend ACT and NET.

[jake williams]

I would claim that conspiratologists got it right that there is a struggle between the people and the elite, but they ignore all class issues and claim that all talk of class struggle only will serve the elite.
I think this is the key point. As far as I can tell, many or most of the people who adopt these views of the world are particularly oppressed by and excluded from the world by capitalism. Their intuition that a large, powerful system is behind their oppression is totally sensible. They deserve our sympathy. The fact that the only conclusions they can come to about whatever system is managing their lives is the fault of capitalist anti-education, and our lack of reaching out to them and trying to give them better information about how the world actually works. As xAMKx pointed out, they don't know Marxism. The "theories" they have are the only ones they have readily available. If you don't know the right people and the right shibboleths, Marxism can be pretty inaccessible. Zeitgeist is accessible in a certain way - you can watch it and pick it all up, and it seems very insightful. If you compare it to something like Capital, it's just a whole lot easier to understand.

It's our responsibility to open discussion with them and try to give them a more rational view of the world.

[Agrippa]

To talk about this so-called "conspiratology" without connecting ourselves to the centuries-old tradition of anti-fascism and anti-Bonapartism is to essentially to accept the capitalist-media fabrication of these "conspiracy theorists'" nature.

The capitalist press uses "conspiracy theorism" as a way to designate certain subjects as being not up for question. A good example of this is the way Leftists have been manipulated into entirely ignoring institutions such as the Federal Reserve, the IRS, the Bilderberger, the Triladeral Commission, etc. while simultaniously carrying vendettas against almost-identical organizations such as the G8, the World Bank, etc.

9/11 is another good example. The troothers are 100% correct. The "MSM" story on 9/11 is bullshit and ignores many of the real culprits. For example, the architects who lied about the durability of the towers when they were built, most likely as a cost-cutting measure. Just because psychotic third positionits like to create schizophrenic delusions revolving around an important historical event (delusions that inlcude "holograph planes", cruise missiles hitting the pentagon, remote-controlled planes, and other garbage) does not mean we shouldn't be allowed to discuss, for example, the very real hand American, Israel, and Saudi intelligence has in manipluating many Islamist extremist groups. Same with any issue, such as flouridation, innoculations, HIV-AIDS etc. If the reactionary right is explained away as a quirk, a strange and unexpected mutation in human society, a set of bizarre, seemingly unrelated pet political causes and delusions about the world, than one can be strong-armed, under the guise of rightly rejecting the absurd conspiracy theorist's explanation, into accepting the equally absurd mainstream position.

The primary problem with "conspiracy theorists" isn't that they merely refuse to discuss class. The problem is that they have basic assumptions about the world that remain unchallenged, assumptions motivated by material conditions.

These people are fascists. They are our opponents. At the same time, many among their ranks are our brothers in spirit. Thus, we should aggressive recruit away from their ranks as a vital tool in our war against them.