Cpgb (m-l)

[teenagebricks]

Does anyone know anything about them? I've tried Google, Wikipedia, and the party's website, all of which yielded very little information. I know they are a fairly new party, anti revisionist, and that their support base consists largely of hardline Stalinists. Any members or non members here who can tell me a bit more? Thanks.

[h0m0revolutionary]

Not a member (thankfully!) but i've ran into both of them (haha)

nah to be serious. They consist of about 6 people, two of whom sometimes attend Manchester events, such as MayDay. They are very well funded for such a small group, they have very large banners and expensive looking flags and such for example. rumour has it they're funded by both North Korea and China, of whom they are very much supporters.

Not a bad website
(http://www.cpgb-ml.org/)
but i guess you can afford such things when funded by China.

[h0m0revolutionary]

I should also mention it is run by Harpal Brar who you might of heard of via the Assosciation of Indian Communists or the Stalin Society. Either way his leadership of the CPGB -ML means they're more well knwon than their politics should allow. His Stalinism is so devout it induces nausea in me :P

[JimmyJazz]

I subscribe to their youtube channel, which has some good videos (and some pointless ones):

http://www.youtube.com/user/ProletarianCPGBML

And they're affiliated (in what exact way I'm not sure) with the anti-imperialist newspaper LALKAR, which I've occasionally found useful articles from:

http://www.lalkar.org/index.php

[mykittyhasaboner]

^They do have good videos. I particularly like their videos on the celebration of the October Revolution.

[Black Sheep]

Communist Parties with the 'm-l' added to their name seem to be a common thing worldwide.Does anyone know the circumstances under which they emerged?

For example in greece, we have the Communist Party of Greece, M-L Communist Party of Greece, AND the Communist Party of Greece (m-l).

The m-ls are Maoist here.

[Wanted Man]

I hadn't read this stuff before: http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=statements&subName=display&statementId=16

I guess it shows where they stand in relation with the rest of the communist movement.

There is nothing wrong with being anti-revisionist, but there is a problem with the myriad of "(M-L)" splinters, and this exchange shows that quite well.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Communist Parties with the 'm-l' added to their name seem to be a common thing worldwide.Does anyone know the circumstances under which they emerged?

For example in greece, we have the Communist Party of Greece, M-L Communist Party of Greece, AND the Communist Party of Greece (m-l).

The m-ls are Maoist here.
M-Ls everywhere are Maoist. I dunno why, cause Leninists of the Stalinist and Trotskyist stripe are obviously also Marxist (arguably more so, cos M-Ls have a weird obsession with the peasantry that definitely doesn't come from Marx), but that's the name they call themselves. Most Trots, despite being Marxists and Leninists, won't use the phrase M-L cos of its Maoist associations. Dunno about mainstream Stalinists, tho. But yeah, I'm guessing they emerged out of the Russia-China split - those who backed the Russian state got to keep the official Communist Parties, so those who preferred the Chinese brand of state capitalism had to start Communist Parties (M-L). I think the CP M-Ls generally tend to be a bit more militant than the official CPs, but still pretty useless.

[Q]

I hadn't read this stuff before: http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=statements&subName=display&statementId=16

I guess it shows where they stand in relation with the rest of the communist movement.

There is nothing wrong with being anti-revisionist, but there is a problem with the myriad of "(M-L)" splinters, and this exchange shows that quite well.
Wow, what an incredible long wall of text :mellow:

I chuckled a bit at this line though:

In the circumstances, we have no option but to go public and expose the arbitrary and unjust modus operandi of both the working group and the CPB.
I just find this conception of debate and democracy odd: discussion should remain internal unless there is no other option? That is a rather odd way to educate the masses in revolutionary ideas.

[teenagebricks]

Sounds like a front for the Stalin Society, nasty business. Nice website though.

[Sam_b]

I do believe that the Stalin Society in some ways is the CPGB-ML's united front - or so i've heard.

[rednordman]

They are in my opinion an overtly stalinist party. This may seem like a bad thing to alot of you, but in my opinion, it isnt that bad at all. To be fair this could be the sort of thing that we are looking for to take the votes away from the likes of the BNP. Alot of people with the UK (my example) obviously want a 'hardline' approach to the issues within the EU. This is proven by the results from the Euroelections. Lets move the 'hardline' away from the BNPs immigration and white nationalist stance that is disturbably troucing us a the moment, to the truthfull 'hardline' one against capitalism.

If the CPB (M-L) can help take the emphasis away from the racist politics of the BNP to the class politics of the CPB (M-L) than good on them (No matter if they support Stalin socitey or not). Trust me, now is not the time for a bitter split within the far-left.

[Q]

They are in my opinion an overtly stalinist party. This may seem like a bad thing to alot of you, but in my opinion, it isnt that bad at all. To be fair this could be the sort of thing that we are looking for to take the votes away from the likes of the BNP. Alot of people with the UK (my example) obviously want a 'hardline' approach to the issues within the EU. This is proven by the results from the Euroelections. Lets move the 'hardline' away from the BNPs immigration and white nationalist stance that is disturbably troucing us a the moment, to the truthfull 'hardline' one against capitalism.

If the CPB (M-L) can help take the emphasis away from the racist politics of the BNP to the class politics of the CPB (M-L) than good on them (No matter if they support Stalin socitey or not). Trust me, now is not the time for a bitter split within the far-left.
You're mixed up on the parties. The CPB (http://www.communist-party.org.uk/) and the CPGB-ML (http://www.cpgb-ml.org/) are two different parties. The first supported the No2EU platform, the second is an insignificant sectlet.

Besides, on the street not the CPB but the Socialist Party (http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/main/Home) was the main force advocating the No2EU alternative.

[rednordman]

You're mixed up on the parties. The CPB (http://www.communist-party.org.uk/) and the CPGB-ML (http://www.cpgb-ml.org/) are two different parties. The first supported the No2EU platform, the second is an insignificant sectlet.

Besides, on the street not the CPB but the Socialist Party (http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/main/Home) was the main force advocating the No2EU alternative. I was refering to the CPGB-ML not the CPB.

Sure I do not agree with all that they say, but things seem so bad at the moment, i cannot see anything to bad with it. I'm just a bit gutted that at a time that the whole world has witnesed capitalism going tits up, people CHOOSE to vote for the right-wing parties!!? Like that will make things better:rolleyes:

What else can i say?

[Billy Bunter]

I dont think it is either accurate or fair to say that the CPGB-ML consists of two people, or that it has 'fronts', or even that it is a sect.

Anyone who goes on anti-war demo's or PSC ones etc can see the CPGB-ML quite visibly, they have decent contingents, way in excess of two people.

If you read their magazine or website they have meetings and actions across the country.

The wikipedia says that they came out of the SLP and were the most active part of it.

Anyone can email them so they cant be a secret sect or society.

The Stalin Society website says nothing about them, so they're either seperate, or they merely support the Stalin Society.

At the recent Stop the War AGM they had a motion passed by the AGM.

They are active in PSC.

Don't matter whether you like them, they are on the 'scene'.

Viacheslav

[The Ungovernable Farce]

If you read their magazine or website they have meetings and actions across the country.

Yeah, just look at the amazing range of events they have coming up (http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=events): a Stalin society meeting in London, another Stalin society meeting in London, and a Stalin society meeting in London slagging off George Orwell. That is definitely an active, worthwhile party doing things across the country that are completely relevant to the needs and interests of the working class. :laugh:

[scarletghoul]

I think parties just add M-L to their name when all other names are taken. Its the mark of a sectarian and divided communist movement

[Robespierre2.0]

I really like these guys and their videos, and I'd gladly join them if I lived in the UK.
Other Hoxhaists may take issue with their 'pan-Stalinist' stand, but I kind of agree with critically supporting all movements that weaken imperialism and empower the workers, a little revisionism be damned. After all, to me, it seems imperialism is far too powerful these days to be squabbling and further dividing ourselves over 'ideological purity'.

[Andrei Kuznetsov]

Did the CPGB(M-L) come out of the whole Hardial Banes trend that the Communist Party of Canada (M-L) and all them came out of?

I'm pro-Stalin (albeit critically) and I'm not living in Britain but I've always found Hoxhaite sects like the CPGB(M-L) to be rather unimpressive and dedicated to just uncritically replicate the past. Even if the USSR was a genuinely socialist society during the Stalin administration (which I believe it was, albeit one with serious problems that must never be repeated), such a line will never bring us a "New October" (should we even want one?) but will just turn us into a tiny historical society like the Stalin Society.

[Robespierre2.0]

I'm pro Stalin (albeit critically) and I'm not living in Britain but I've always found Hoxhaite sects like the CPGB(M-L) to be rather unimpressive and dedicated to just uncritically replicate the past. Even if the USSR was a genuinely socialist society during the Stalin administration (which I believe it was, albeit one with serious problems that must never be repeated), such a line will never bring us a "New October" (should we even want one?) but will just turn us into a tiny historical society like the Stalin Society.

I don't think they're Hoxhaist, nor do I get the impression that they want to slavishly recreate an exact replica of the early USSR.
I guess I don't really have a problem with the historical focus of some of their articles and videos, because there is so much bullshit slander about Stalin and the USSR that needs to be debunked. I don't think trying to counter that automatically means that they want to 'uncritically replicate the past'.

[Prairie Fire]

The CPGB (ML)...

I will say this about them: they are work horses.

I went to school with a persyn from london, generally not political, let alone involved in socialist politics, and even he has met/heard of them (they sell issues of their paper at Soccer games).

On the other hand, as a comrade from the RCPB (ML) (a different organization than CPGB-ML) said to me, yes they technically often take the correct stance on issues (and should be applauded for this), but their political tactics and method still leave a lot to be desired (not to mention large parts of their theoretical content).

Carrying large portraits of Stalin in the streets of England to a Mayday demonstration, while it does force a grin out of me, is an incorrect, and kind of apolitical way to proceed.

Not only are they making Stalin the issue (for the purpose of "pissing off the Trots", as a CPGB-ML member told me,), but the act of carrying a poster of Stalin, while it certainly advertises your political allegiance, is devoid of any sort of political content.

It reminds me of the Anarchists here in my province, who consistently every year hand out handbills on Mayday concerning the "Anarchist origins of Mayday", and the Haymarket affair, with an obligatory contact e-mail to their "organization" on the back.

Upon reading it, my Comrade kind laughed a bit, and remarked "this could have been written a hundred years ago".

The working class needs to not only take up politics for themselves, but they need a party that is capable of raising the political level of the workers movement in general, and dissimenating politics that are relavent to the contemporary struggles to orient the workers.

Jimmy Jazz:

And they're affiliated (in what exact way I'm not sure) with the anti-imperialist newspaper LALKAR, which I've occasionally found useful articles from

Brar writes for LALKAR as well (and may have founded it).

Bulk sheep:


Communist Parties with the 'm-l' added to their name seem to be a common thing worldwide.Does anyone know the circumstances under which they emerged?


Sure. They emerged in the struggle against revisionism around the world.

The first parties of this type started to spring up during the Sino-Soviet split, many in absence of a revolutionary party in their own country to turn to, and several more emerged during the Sino-Albanian split.

Initially, the orientation of these parties was Maoist, and some remained that way after the Sino-Albanian split.

This may seem like ridiculous sectarian splitting, but considering the politics of many of these new organizations, in stark contrast to the parent parties or established "communist" parties and organizations in the area, these splits were generally guided by necesity rather than frivolity.

Also, take into account the number of new "parties" that emerged as a part of covert operation CHAOS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS

Wanted Man:

There is nothing wrong with being anti-revisionist, but there is a problem with the myriad of "(M-L)" splinters, and this exchange shows that quite well.

Red Nord Man:

Trust me, now is not the time for a bitter split within the far-left.

Scarlet ghoul:


Its the mark of a sectarian and divided communist movement

In theory, yes, all of us are in favour of communist parties joining forces against the common enemy, but in practice as I said, these splits are usually motivated by political necesity.

It is generally better to have political quality than numerical quantity in your party. While Lenin did stress mobilizing a broad section of forces, a mass membership can be achieved afterwards, and others are more likely to take up the politics of your party if your politics and organizations work have been consolidated.

"Better fewer, but better" comrades.

Ungovernable farce

M-Ls everywhere are Maoist.

No. While "ML" is often the suffix used by Maoist parties, Maoism is not a Marxist-Leninist ideology. Mao himself, while a revolutionary figure, was an ecclectic not a Marxist.

I will concede that many contemporary Maoists are Marxist-Leninists, however.

For further reading, check out the second part (if not the whole boook) of Imperialism and the Revolution by Enver Hoxha;

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hoxha/works/imp_rev/imp_ch4.htm
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hoxha/works/imp_rev/imp_ch5.htm
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hoxha/works/imp_rev/imp_ch6.htm


I think the CP M-Ls generally tend to be a bit more militant than the official CPs, but still pretty useless.

Yeah, too bad all of these parties (many of which have actually lead armed revolutions and made tangible gains for the workers around the world) couldn't be like the mighty Anarchist Federation. :rolleyes:

Sam B:


I do believe that the Stalin Society in some ways is the CPGB-ML's united front - or so i've heard.


Yeah, I believe that perhaps some RCPB (ML) members might attend their stuff as well. I can't back that up though.

The society puts out some decent research material which I often reference and quote, but that is the extent of their usefulness though.

Andrei Kuznetsov:

but I've always found Hoxhaite sects like the CPGB(M-L)

Whoa, whoa, whoa! CPGB (M-L) is not a so called "Hoxhaite" party.

They have written praise of Enver on one occasion in The proletarian, although as a CPBG(M-L) member told me, they reject Hoxha's analysis of Soviet Social-imperialism.

That, coupled with their support for various questionable political entities... I mean, we all generally support the DPRK and countries like Zimbabwe against agression, but defending present day Chinese revisionism (another dead give away that they have explicitly rejected/ignored Enver Hoxha's body of work) and inviting the representatives of this "communist" party to their various events, is distastefully revisionist at best.



to be rather unimpressive and dedicated to just uncritically replicate the past.


Read the "Necesity for Change" pamphlet by Hardial Bains. In the 1998 preface, Bains has this to say:

" The internationalists (Predecesor organization of CPC-ML) waged the struggle in the sixties against "idealist" anti-revisionists who's most characteristic feature was that they merely took the position of anti-revisionism and did nothing to change the situation".

A brief overview of the works of Bains shows that these parties and movements were not simply "replicating the past", and reading the works of Bill Bland shows that the analysis of the Marxist-Leninist left is anything but un-critical.


Even if the USSR was a genuinely socialist society during the Stalin administration (which I believe it was, albeit one with serious problems that must never be repeated), such a line will never bring us a "New October" (should we even want one?) but will just turn us into a tiny historical society like the Stalin Society.

Yes, but not every organization who upholds this historical outlook restricts their political work and programme to the propogation of enthusiasm for this historical outlook.

It is possible to uphold this view of history and still be immersed in the contemporary movement for working class emancipation, with a program and tactics that are aimed at addressing the contemporary world.

Your characterization of the Marxist-Leninist movement is an unfair generalization.