RGacky3
3rd June 2009, 12:09
http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=01/11/21/0853184
I came across this a while ago, but its interesting and, in my opinion, mostly rediculous. Case in point.
A) Passive-Aggressive Patriarchy:" (often come across as a
victim/helpless/in
need/dependent and get women in your life to be your physical and
emotional
caretakers?to buy you things? to take care of your responsibilities?
pick up your slack? use guilt or manipulation to get out of your
responsibilities
and equal share of the work? do you treat your female partner like a
"mom" or your secretary?)
B) "Aggressive Patriarchy:" (Do you often take charge? Assume that a
woman can’t do something right so you do it for her? Believe that only
you can take care of things? Think that you always have the right
answer?
Treat your female partner like she’s helpless, fragile, a baby or weak?
Do you put down your partner or minimize her feelings? Do you belittle
her opinions?)
The first on is not "passive aggressive patriarchy" its being a needy and spineless (am I allowed to say "being a pussy"? Considering the discussion on my earlier thread on that type language? Because in the english language that word convays the point a little better.)
The second could very well have to do with the partner, (man or woman) if he/she can't make desicions or is weak minded chances are the other one will either loose intrest or have to take over.
Most people have a little bit of both to varying degrees, men tend to be more of the latter (blame it on society or nature whatever), but that has nothing to do with sexism.
2. How do you react when women in your life name something or someone
as patriarchal or sexist? Do you think of her or call her a "PC Thug,"
"Feminazj," "Thin-skinned," "Overly-Sensitive," a "COINTELPRO-esque"
or "Un-fun?"
It depends on the situation obviously.
5. Do you believe that women have "natural characteristics" which are
Inherent in our sex such as "passive," "sweet," "caring," "nurturing,"
"considerate," "generous," "weak," or "emotional?"
I'm not sure about those, however, men and women have different physical and emotional make ups, so there are inherent differences, and understanding that is'nt sexist.
That does'nt mean that a woman cannot be strong or a man cannot be emotional, but there are still inherent differences.
6. Do you make fun of "typical" men or "frat boys" but not ever check
yourself to see if you behave in the same ways?
What would be wrong with being a "typical man"? Since when is the "typical man" a mysogonist?
7. Do you take on sexism and patriarchy as a personal struggle working
to fight against it in yourself, in your relationships, in society,
work,
culture, subcultures, and institutions?
As far as me personally, if it comes up in the workplace (meaning a qualified woman is discriminated against because she is a woman) or institutions, then I would fight it, I don't take it as a personal struggle for the same reason I don't take liberating the basque area in spain as a personal struggle.
If someone does not actively fight against racism that does'nt make him a racist.
10. Do you think that you define what is radical? Do you suffer from
or contribute to macho bravado" or ‘subpoena envy? (I.e. defining a
true
or "cool" and respectable activist as someone who has: been arrested,
done lockdowns, scaled walls, hung banners, done time for their actions
argued or fought with police, done property alterations, beat up nazi
boneheads, etc.)?
I'm sorry but demonizing "macho bravado" is rediculous, many great revolutionary things have been because of so called "macho bravado", whatever the hell that means, since when has "machismo" (in the sense of encouraging courage, toughness and so on) been something to be demonized)? Also who says that this "macho bravado" is only a male thing, remember Emma Goldman?
12. Are you taking on the "shit" or "grunt" work in your organizing?
(I.e.: Cooking. cleaning. set up, clean up phone calls, email lists,
taking notes, doing support work, sending mailings, providing
childcare?)
Are you aware of the fact. that women often are taking on this work
with
no regard or for their efforts?
13. Do you take active step to make your activist groups safe and
comfortable
places for women?
14. If you are trying to get more women involved in your activist
projects,
do you try to engage them by telling them what’ to do or why they
should
join your group?
replace "woman" with anyone.
15. Do you ever find yourself monitoring and limiting your behavior and
speech in meetings and activist settings because you don't want’ to
take
up too much space or dominate the group? Are you aware of the fact that
women do this all the time?
Really? Why is this only a man thing, do women not try to dominate discussions or activities as well?
17. Do you make jokes or negative comments about the sex lives of women
or sex work?
Yes, I make sex jokes, about women, and about men, and about sex. A joke is a joke.
18. Can you only show affection and be loving to your partner in front
of friends and family or only in private?
That has to do with self-confidence and relationship confidence, that has nothing to do with chauvinism. Maybe the person only shows affectio to his/her "partner" in private, because he does'nt want an open relationship, or becuase he/she just wants that person for sex (nothing wrong with that).
20. Do you repeatedly ask or plead with women for what you want in
sexual
situations? Are you aware that unless this is a mutually consented upon
scenario/game that this is considered a form of coercion?
Men are the only naggers? Any one with a girlfriend or wife knows this not to be true, nagging for sexual things is no worse or better than nagging for other things.
21. During sex, do you pay attention to your partner’s face and body
language to see if she is turned on? Engaged, or just lying there? Do
you ask a woman who she wants during sex? What turns her on?
Who cares, what does that have to do with sexism? If your not a good lover she won't sleep with you again (unless she wants too). People have sex for different reasons, in one situation, lets say your in love, pleasing your partner would be inportant to you, on a one night stand maybe not so much, what does that have to do with sexism?
24. Do you stay with your partner in a relationship for comfort and
security?
Sex? Financial or emotional caretaking? If you’re not completely happy
or "in love" with your partner anymore? Even though you don’t think it
will ultimately work out? Because you’re afraid or unable to be alone?
Do you suddenly end relationships when a "new" or "better" woman comes
along?
Both men and women do this. Also whats wrong with giong for the better woman?
The reasons someone is in a relationship differ and have nothing to do with sexism.
26. Do you cheat on your partners?
is cheating patriachal? :P
27. If your girlfriend gets on your case for patriarchal behavior or
wants to try to work on the issues of patriarchy in your relationship,
do you creak up with her or cheat on her and find another woman who
will
put up with your shit?
The real question is why would you want to be with a woman who's shit you have to put up with? Or who does'nt want to put up with "your shit".
32. Do you talk to your female friends about things you don't talk to
your male friends about especially emotional issues?
What? What does that have to do with anything?
33. Do you constantly fall in love with your female friends Are you
friends
with women until you find out that they are not in love with you too
and then end the friendships? Are you only friends with women who are
in monogamous or committed relationships with other people?
only if your a coward that becomes friends with girls in order to try and make them "love you". Which does'nt make you a sexist.
34. Do you come on to your female friends even jokingly?
Are males the only ones to do this? Sex is sex.
36. Do you find yourself only attracted to "Anarcho-Crusty Punk
Barbie",
Alterna-Grrrl Barbie," or Hardcore-Grrrl Barbie?" (The idea here being
that the only women you arc attracted to fit mainstream beauty
standards
but just dress and do their hair alternatively and maybe have piercings
and tattoos) Do you question and challenge your internalized ideals of
mainstream beauty ideals for women?
This one is incredible. Now not to be an ass, but its interesting that in my experience women who critisize the so called "mainstream beauty standards" are ugly women.
What men are attracted to has nothing to do with sexism or any type of discrimination, its sexaul attraction, and if a man or a woman wants to be attractive to the opposite sex he/she has to deal with the fact that in general certain things are considered more attractive, rather than complaining about the "standards".
38. Are you aware of the fact that ALL WOMEN, even women in radical
communities,
live under the CONSTANT PRESSURE and OPPRESSION of mainstream
patriarchal
beauty standards?
And men are under constant pressure to make money, look good, have a carrear, and so on and so forth.
Its not oppression for men to be attracted to attractive women.
39. Are you aware of the fact that many women in radical communities
have had and are currently dealing with eating disorders?
And?
41. When was the last time you walked into your house, noticed that
something
was misplaced/dirty/etc. AND did something about it (didn’t just walk
by it, over it, away from it or leave a nasty note about it) even if
it wasn’t your chore or responsibility?
42. Are you constantly amazed by the magical "food fairy" who
mysteriously
acquires food, brings it home, puts it away, prepares it in meal form
and then cleans up afterwards?
43. Do you contribute equally to domestic life and work?
44. How many of the following activities do you contribute to in your
home (this is a partal list of what it takes to run a household):
A: Sweep and mop floors and clean carpets
B: Wash and put away dishes
C: Clean stove, countertops, sinks and appliances if they are messy and
each time after you have prepared food
D: Collect money, do food shopping, put away food and make meals for
people you live with
E: Do house laundry (kitchen towels, bathroom hand towels, washable
rugs,
etc.)
F: Clean up common room spaces, even if it’s not your chore
G: Pick up other’s slack
H: Deal with garbage, recycling, and compost
I: Take care of bills, rent, utilities
J: Deal with the landscaping and gardening
K: Clean bathrooms and make sure bathroom is clean after you use it
L: Feed, clean up after, and take care of housepets
If I'm living with a girl and we are both working then sure, of coarse.
48. Do you help make the lives of single mothers in your life and
community
easier by finding out if and how you can assist?
I actually agree with this (not just mothers however), and think its extreamly important and admirable to help out single Parents.
49. Have you politicized your ideas about child rearing and parenthood
radical communities? Do you believe that individuals who are in the
movement
have children or that the movement has children?
Child rearing and parenthood is the last thing that should be politicized.
50. When was the last time you showed a woman how to do a task rather
than doing it for her and assuming she couldn’t do it?
51. When was the last time you asked a woman to show you how to do a
task?
Why? To make her feel good? replace woman with anybody. That has nothing to do with sexism.
53. If a woman discusses with you or calls you out on your patriarchy,
do you make an effort to be emotionally present? Listen? Not
emotionally
shut down? Not get defensive? Think about what she said? Admit you
fucked
up? Take responsibility/make reparations for the mistakes you made?
Discuss
your feelings and ideas with her? Apologize? Work harder on your own
shit to make sure that you don’t make the same mistakes again with her
or other women?
Assuming the woman is correct in the accusation.
54. Do you look inside yourself to find out why you fucked up in these
relationships
WHAT? "Why you fucked up"??? That question assumes its the male making the mistake. Don't be with women that demand you change your behavior, simple as that.
57. Do you physically, psychologically, or emotionally abuse women?
goes both ways.
58. Do the women in your life (mothers, sisters, partners, housemates,
friends, etc.) have to "remind" you or "nag" you or "yell" at you in
order for you to get off your ass and take care of your
responsibilities?
You've got to be kiding me. First of all, how are these so called "responsibilities" not just another form of sexism, as if men have certain innate "responsibilities".
59. Do you talk to other men about patriarchy and your part in it?
I cannot believe the amount of self-hate and guilt this article is promoting, essencially the message is "men are always wrong,, an should appologise for being wrong, and women should be treated as complete equals while at the same time being catered to (oxymoron)."
This type of crap is cheapens not only feminism but also anarchism.
I came across this a while ago, but its interesting and, in my opinion, mostly rediculous. Case in point.
A) Passive-Aggressive Patriarchy:" (often come across as a
victim/helpless/in
need/dependent and get women in your life to be your physical and
emotional
caretakers?to buy you things? to take care of your responsibilities?
pick up your slack? use guilt or manipulation to get out of your
responsibilities
and equal share of the work? do you treat your female partner like a
"mom" or your secretary?)
B) "Aggressive Patriarchy:" (Do you often take charge? Assume that a
woman can’t do something right so you do it for her? Believe that only
you can take care of things? Think that you always have the right
answer?
Treat your female partner like she’s helpless, fragile, a baby or weak?
Do you put down your partner or minimize her feelings? Do you belittle
her opinions?)
The first on is not "passive aggressive patriarchy" its being a needy and spineless (am I allowed to say "being a pussy"? Considering the discussion on my earlier thread on that type language? Because in the english language that word convays the point a little better.)
The second could very well have to do with the partner, (man or woman) if he/she can't make desicions or is weak minded chances are the other one will either loose intrest or have to take over.
Most people have a little bit of both to varying degrees, men tend to be more of the latter (blame it on society or nature whatever), but that has nothing to do with sexism.
2. How do you react when women in your life name something or someone
as patriarchal or sexist? Do you think of her or call her a "PC Thug,"
"Feminazj," "Thin-skinned," "Overly-Sensitive," a "COINTELPRO-esque"
or "Un-fun?"
It depends on the situation obviously.
5. Do you believe that women have "natural characteristics" which are
Inherent in our sex such as "passive," "sweet," "caring," "nurturing,"
"considerate," "generous," "weak," or "emotional?"
I'm not sure about those, however, men and women have different physical and emotional make ups, so there are inherent differences, and understanding that is'nt sexist.
That does'nt mean that a woman cannot be strong or a man cannot be emotional, but there are still inherent differences.
6. Do you make fun of "typical" men or "frat boys" but not ever check
yourself to see if you behave in the same ways?
What would be wrong with being a "typical man"? Since when is the "typical man" a mysogonist?
7. Do you take on sexism and patriarchy as a personal struggle working
to fight against it in yourself, in your relationships, in society,
work,
culture, subcultures, and institutions?
As far as me personally, if it comes up in the workplace (meaning a qualified woman is discriminated against because she is a woman) or institutions, then I would fight it, I don't take it as a personal struggle for the same reason I don't take liberating the basque area in spain as a personal struggle.
If someone does not actively fight against racism that does'nt make him a racist.
10. Do you think that you define what is radical? Do you suffer from
or contribute to macho bravado" or ‘subpoena envy? (I.e. defining a
true
or "cool" and respectable activist as someone who has: been arrested,
done lockdowns, scaled walls, hung banners, done time for their actions
argued or fought with police, done property alterations, beat up nazi
boneheads, etc.)?
I'm sorry but demonizing "macho bravado" is rediculous, many great revolutionary things have been because of so called "macho bravado", whatever the hell that means, since when has "machismo" (in the sense of encouraging courage, toughness and so on) been something to be demonized)? Also who says that this "macho bravado" is only a male thing, remember Emma Goldman?
12. Are you taking on the "shit" or "grunt" work in your organizing?
(I.e.: Cooking. cleaning. set up, clean up phone calls, email lists,
taking notes, doing support work, sending mailings, providing
childcare?)
Are you aware of the fact. that women often are taking on this work
with
no regard or for their efforts?
13. Do you take active step to make your activist groups safe and
comfortable
places for women?
14. If you are trying to get more women involved in your activist
projects,
do you try to engage them by telling them what’ to do or why they
should
join your group?
replace "woman" with anyone.
15. Do you ever find yourself monitoring and limiting your behavior and
speech in meetings and activist settings because you don't want’ to
take
up too much space or dominate the group? Are you aware of the fact that
women do this all the time?
Really? Why is this only a man thing, do women not try to dominate discussions or activities as well?
17. Do you make jokes or negative comments about the sex lives of women
or sex work?
Yes, I make sex jokes, about women, and about men, and about sex. A joke is a joke.
18. Can you only show affection and be loving to your partner in front
of friends and family or only in private?
That has to do with self-confidence and relationship confidence, that has nothing to do with chauvinism. Maybe the person only shows affectio to his/her "partner" in private, because he does'nt want an open relationship, or becuase he/she just wants that person for sex (nothing wrong with that).
20. Do you repeatedly ask or plead with women for what you want in
sexual
situations? Are you aware that unless this is a mutually consented upon
scenario/game that this is considered a form of coercion?
Men are the only naggers? Any one with a girlfriend or wife knows this not to be true, nagging for sexual things is no worse or better than nagging for other things.
21. During sex, do you pay attention to your partner’s face and body
language to see if she is turned on? Engaged, or just lying there? Do
you ask a woman who she wants during sex? What turns her on?
Who cares, what does that have to do with sexism? If your not a good lover she won't sleep with you again (unless she wants too). People have sex for different reasons, in one situation, lets say your in love, pleasing your partner would be inportant to you, on a one night stand maybe not so much, what does that have to do with sexism?
24. Do you stay with your partner in a relationship for comfort and
security?
Sex? Financial or emotional caretaking? If you’re not completely happy
or "in love" with your partner anymore? Even though you don’t think it
will ultimately work out? Because you’re afraid or unable to be alone?
Do you suddenly end relationships when a "new" or "better" woman comes
along?
Both men and women do this. Also whats wrong with giong for the better woman?
The reasons someone is in a relationship differ and have nothing to do with sexism.
26. Do you cheat on your partners?
is cheating patriachal? :P
27. If your girlfriend gets on your case for patriarchal behavior or
wants to try to work on the issues of patriarchy in your relationship,
do you creak up with her or cheat on her and find another woman who
will
put up with your shit?
The real question is why would you want to be with a woman who's shit you have to put up with? Or who does'nt want to put up with "your shit".
32. Do you talk to your female friends about things you don't talk to
your male friends about especially emotional issues?
What? What does that have to do with anything?
33. Do you constantly fall in love with your female friends Are you
friends
with women until you find out that they are not in love with you too
and then end the friendships? Are you only friends with women who are
in monogamous or committed relationships with other people?
only if your a coward that becomes friends with girls in order to try and make them "love you". Which does'nt make you a sexist.
34. Do you come on to your female friends even jokingly?
Are males the only ones to do this? Sex is sex.
36. Do you find yourself only attracted to "Anarcho-Crusty Punk
Barbie",
Alterna-Grrrl Barbie," or Hardcore-Grrrl Barbie?" (The idea here being
that the only women you arc attracted to fit mainstream beauty
standards
but just dress and do their hair alternatively and maybe have piercings
and tattoos) Do you question and challenge your internalized ideals of
mainstream beauty ideals for women?
This one is incredible. Now not to be an ass, but its interesting that in my experience women who critisize the so called "mainstream beauty standards" are ugly women.
What men are attracted to has nothing to do with sexism or any type of discrimination, its sexaul attraction, and if a man or a woman wants to be attractive to the opposite sex he/she has to deal with the fact that in general certain things are considered more attractive, rather than complaining about the "standards".
38. Are you aware of the fact that ALL WOMEN, even women in radical
communities,
live under the CONSTANT PRESSURE and OPPRESSION of mainstream
patriarchal
beauty standards?
And men are under constant pressure to make money, look good, have a carrear, and so on and so forth.
Its not oppression for men to be attracted to attractive women.
39. Are you aware of the fact that many women in radical communities
have had and are currently dealing with eating disorders?
And?
41. When was the last time you walked into your house, noticed that
something
was misplaced/dirty/etc. AND did something about it (didn’t just walk
by it, over it, away from it or leave a nasty note about it) even if
it wasn’t your chore or responsibility?
42. Are you constantly amazed by the magical "food fairy" who
mysteriously
acquires food, brings it home, puts it away, prepares it in meal form
and then cleans up afterwards?
43. Do you contribute equally to domestic life and work?
44. How many of the following activities do you contribute to in your
home (this is a partal list of what it takes to run a household):
A: Sweep and mop floors and clean carpets
B: Wash and put away dishes
C: Clean stove, countertops, sinks and appliances if they are messy and
each time after you have prepared food
D: Collect money, do food shopping, put away food and make meals for
people you live with
E: Do house laundry (kitchen towels, bathroom hand towels, washable
rugs,
etc.)
F: Clean up common room spaces, even if it’s not your chore
G: Pick up other’s slack
H: Deal with garbage, recycling, and compost
I: Take care of bills, rent, utilities
J: Deal with the landscaping and gardening
K: Clean bathrooms and make sure bathroom is clean after you use it
L: Feed, clean up after, and take care of housepets
If I'm living with a girl and we are both working then sure, of coarse.
48. Do you help make the lives of single mothers in your life and
community
easier by finding out if and how you can assist?
I actually agree with this (not just mothers however), and think its extreamly important and admirable to help out single Parents.
49. Have you politicized your ideas about child rearing and parenthood
radical communities? Do you believe that individuals who are in the
movement
have children or that the movement has children?
Child rearing and parenthood is the last thing that should be politicized.
50. When was the last time you showed a woman how to do a task rather
than doing it for her and assuming she couldn’t do it?
51. When was the last time you asked a woman to show you how to do a
task?
Why? To make her feel good? replace woman with anybody. That has nothing to do with sexism.
53. If a woman discusses with you or calls you out on your patriarchy,
do you make an effort to be emotionally present? Listen? Not
emotionally
shut down? Not get defensive? Think about what she said? Admit you
fucked
up? Take responsibility/make reparations for the mistakes you made?
Discuss
your feelings and ideas with her? Apologize? Work harder on your own
shit to make sure that you don’t make the same mistakes again with her
or other women?
Assuming the woman is correct in the accusation.
54. Do you look inside yourself to find out why you fucked up in these
relationships
WHAT? "Why you fucked up"??? That question assumes its the male making the mistake. Don't be with women that demand you change your behavior, simple as that.
57. Do you physically, psychologically, or emotionally abuse women?
goes both ways.
58. Do the women in your life (mothers, sisters, partners, housemates,
friends, etc.) have to "remind" you or "nag" you or "yell" at you in
order for you to get off your ass and take care of your
responsibilities?
You've got to be kiding me. First of all, how are these so called "responsibilities" not just another form of sexism, as if men have certain innate "responsibilities".
59. Do you talk to other men about patriarchy and your part in it?
I cannot believe the amount of self-hate and guilt this article is promoting, essencially the message is "men are always wrong,, an should appologise for being wrong, and women should be treated as complete equals while at the same time being catered to (oxymoron)."
This type of crap is cheapens not only feminism but also anarchism.