The DPRK reveals who will succeed Kim. [Archive]

Communist Theory

2nd June 2009, 15:10

North Korea's leader Kim Jong-il has designated his youngest son to be the country's next leader, according to reports in South Korean media.
Two newspapers and an opposition lawmaker said South Korea's spy agency had briefed legislators on the move.
North Korean officials were reportedly told to support Kim Jong-un after the North's 25 May nuclear test.
There has been much speculation over who would follow Mr Kim, who is thought to have suffered a stroke last year.
Analysts have said the North's recent military actions, including last week's nuclear test, may have been aimed at helping Mr Kim solidify power so that he could name a successor.
Little known
The reports in the Hankook Ilbo and Dong-a Ilbo newspapers quoted unnamed members of South Korea's parliamentary intelligence committee briefed by the National Intelligence Service, although the spy agency refused to confirm the reports.
The Associated Press news agency reported that opposition legislator Park Jie-won, a member of the parliament's intelligence committee, told local radio he had been briefed by the government on the North's move.
Mr Park said the regime is "pledging allegiance to Kim Jong-un", it reported.
Little is known about Kim Jong-il's youngest son, who is thought to have been born in 1983 or early 1984.
The Dong-a Ilbo added that the North is teaching its people a song lauding Kim Jong-un - who reportedly enjoys skiing and studied English, German and French at a Swiss school.
Nuclear concern
There is no confirmed photograph of him as an adult.
Questions have also been raised over whether his late mother, a Japanese-born professional dancer called Ko Yong-hui, was Kim Jong-il's official wife or mistress.
The youngest Kim has been reported as being the son who most resembles his father.
The BBC's Seoul correspondent, Chris Hogg, says it is not the first time there has been speculation that the youngest son was being groomed to succeed his father.
There were reports he had been named as his successor in January. In April the South Korean news agency, Yonhap, said he had joined the North's powerful National Defence Commission.
Our correspondent notes that in a society that values seniority his youth could be a problem.
Some analysts have urged caution, noting that in the absence of much verifiable information coming out of North Korea, there is a wealth of speculation and rumour.
"We had rumours in September, October that it will be Chang Song-taek, Kim Jong-il's brother-in-law, then briefly there were rumours about his second son, then stories about his third son," Andrei Lankov of the Australian National University in Seoul told our correspondent.
"Every few months we have a new wave of rumours."
Who will eventually rule the nuclear-armed North has been the focus of intense media speculation since leader Mr Kim, 67, reportedly suffered a stroke last August.
The last succession was settled 20 years before the death of the Great Leader Kim Il-sung in 1994, and publicly announced at a party congress in 1980.
The reports of the naming of the next leader come amid growing international concern over the North's nuclear programme and its recent missile tests.
South Korea has deployed a high-speed patrol boat armed with missiles to its disputed western maritime border with the North.
It follows reports that the North has moved a long-range missile to a launch site on the west coast.
Meanwhile, at the end of a two-day summit, South Korean President Lee Myung-bak and leaders from the Association of South East Asian Nations (Asean) condemned North Korea's recent nuclear test and missile launches.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8078324.stm
Well this is going to be interesting.
Discuss.

Charles Xavier

2nd June 2009, 15:12

Probably false.

Communist Theory

2nd June 2009, 15:23

Yes, very possible if Pyongyang isn't confirming it.

Lolshevik

2nd June 2009, 15:25

I'll be believe it when and if the DPRK confirms it. These rumors mostly serve as the political counterpart to Brangelina-style celebrity gossip.

Kwisatz Haderach

2nd June 2009, 15:27

The article itself says that it may just be a rumor... And even if it isn't, we know nothing about this Kim Jong-un, so there isn't much to say. I can only note how the leadership of North Korea keeps passing down from father to sun in dynastic fashion, and lament the fact that something which started out with the ambition of being a workers' state has degenerated so far.

pastradamus

2nd June 2009, 17:33

Even though its just hear-say. I cant imagine Kim will put anyone else in charge of his de-facto Monarchistic throne.

Communist Theory

2nd June 2009, 19:01

I'm assuming that his son will assume power when Kim passes away.
Wouldn't it be something if his son was a closet capitalist?

Jimmie Higgins

2nd June 2009, 19:31

I heard on CNN it was his youngest son who is in his 20s. Isn't it a great day for young people out there when even someone in their early 20s can one day become dictator for life... provided that their dad is dictator for life.

My favorite joke:

boy: "Yay, we're children and children are the future!"

girl: "Really, even me?"

boy: "Not, you. You're poor and a girl."

Communist Theory

2nd June 2009, 19:34

Well we can look at it from an optimistic view.
Maybe Kim Jong-Un will actually be like say Fidel or Lenin and help the DPRK prosper.

Pogue

2nd June 2009, 19:38

:confused: Surely Kim Jong-il will live forever?

:lol:

I hope they hurry up and formally declare this guy the new leader so I can get his portrait up on my wall.

Revy

2nd June 2009, 21:07

Told ya.

I said months ago that Kim Jong-il would be succeeded by one of his sons. One of the apologists just claimed out of nowhere that the guy who is the head of Parliament is going
to be the successor.

Anyway, I hope the guy is better, and not the same or worse.

Wanted Man

2nd June 2009, 22:10

Some analysts have urged caution, noting that in the absence of much verifiable information coming out of North Korea, there is a wealth of speculation and rumour.
"We had rumours in September, October that it will be Chang Song-taek, Kim Jong-il's brother-in-law, then briefly there were rumours about his second son, then stories about his third son," Andrei Lankov of the Australian National University in Seoul told our correspondent.
"Every few months we have a new wave of rumours."
Luckily, we can always accept all these rumours as gospel truth whenever they surface. Even the parts that contradict each other. They must all be true at the same time.

Sounds like good old Sovietology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovietology).

RHIZOMES

3rd June 2009, 08:11

I'm assuming that his son will assume power when Kim passes away.
Wouldn't it be something if his son was a closet capitalist?

Kim Jong-il is a closet capitalist.

3rd June 2009, 08:40

So, the corporate newpaper of an openly enemy state technically at war with a country, quotes unnamed sources who, follow this, have are not even alleged to have any direct knowledge of an event, which was, according to the newspaper, supposedly told to them by a spy agency, which refuses to confirm the story, and the supposed governmental of origin of the story, also denies it...

...and we're expected to believe this?

No where but with the DPRK can you get away with such bullshit. This story is four degrees removed from its alleged source which *each of the three* prior links in the rumor chain refuse to confirm the rumor!

This is a non-story bit of propaganda for all intents and purposes.

Invariance

3rd June 2009, 09:10

Apart from the total unreliability as raised above, the idea that Kim Jong-il can appoint whomever he pleases to 'succeed him' in a 'dynastic fashion' to use the (catch)phrase of one poster, ignores the political situation altogether. The Supreme People's Assembly appoints the Vice-President, the President, members of the Cabinet and the Chairman and Vice-Chairman of the NDC (which includes Kim-Jong-il). Whilst Kim Jong-un has a position in the NDC, despite BBC reports (see how accurate they can be?), he wasn't elected to the SPA. Essentially, what I am saying is that it is far more politically intricate than most here have described it here. Whilst Kim Jong-il may favor his youngest son, the loyalty of the military and the Worker's Party of Korea is relevant too.

Invariance

3rd June 2009, 09:39

I'm assuming that his son will assume power when Kim passes away. I doubt this; probably, like his father, Kim Jong-un will 'climb up' the state-ladder, rather than being 'appointed' after Kim Jong-il's death (which for all we know could be a number of years away, Kim Jong-il being only 67). Politically speaking, it would be far better for Kim-Jong-un's position to be cemented prior to his father's death.

:confused: Surely Kim Jong-il will live forever?

:lol:

I hope they hurry up and formally declare this guy the new leader so I can get his portrait up on my wall. Do you ever make posts which don't consist of spamming? I'm no big fan of North Korea or any ruling class for that matter, but I don't interrupt threads with incessant spamming like yourself.

I heard on CNN it was his youngest son who is in his 20s. Isn't it a great day for young people out there when even someone in their early 20s can one day become dictator for life... provided that their dad is dictator for life.

My favorite joke:

boy: "Yay, we're children and children are the future!"

girl: "Really, even me?"

boy: "Not, you. You're poor and a girl." Considering that DPRK has a far more progressive attitude towards woman than, hell, most of the world, the only joke is your lack of analysis. The SPA and other organisations generally comprise of about 1/5 to 1/4 of woman; generally around the same as Australia. As a side-note, Cuba has one of the highest percentages, of around 45%. 5-month paid maternity leave, support by the State for the costs of children, free education, as well as a high percentage of woman in universities and in the work-force, these are signs of a far more progressive stance than most countries in the world.

natacha

3rd June 2009, 11:30

Jong-un was born in 1983 or 1984 to the North Korean leader's third wife, Ko Yong-hi, a Japanese-born professional dancer who reportedly died from breast cancer in 2004.She also gave birth to Jong-un's elder brother, Kim Jong-chul, 28. The oldest of Kim's three sons, Kim Jong-nam, was born to a different mother, a North Korean film star who died in exile in 2002.

Jong-nam, 37, had long been regarded as Kim's natural successor but he apparently fell out of favour after he was stopped at Narita airport in Tokyo in 2001 attempting to enter Japan on a false Dominican passport. He told immigration officials he had planned to visit Tokyo Disneyland.

Much of what the world knows about the recent dynamics of the Kim family comes from a 2003 book by a Japanese chef who worked as Kim's personal cook.Writing under the pseudonym Kenji Fujimoto, he said Kim regarded his second son, Jon-chul, as "too effeminate" to lead the country. By contrast Fujimoto, who referred to the sons as "princes", describes Jong-un as "a chip off the old block, a spitting image of his father in terms of face, body shape and personality".
South Korean newspaper reports say he is overweight and suffers from diabetes, and there are rumours that he was injured in a car accident last year.

According to reports, Jong-un was expensively educated at an exclusive boarding school in Switzerland – although this is disputed by some South Korean experts who say the he has never been outside North Korea – and later at Kim Il-sung Military University in Pyongyang. He is a keen skier and basketball fan, and reportedly speaks English, German and French.

I hightlighted the cook part incase someone jumped on me about it.
What difference do you think it will make?

S.O.I

3rd June 2009, 11:54

could this cause a conflict between kim yong il "royalists" and government supporters if the party decides to go the other way?

Monkey Riding Dragon

3rd June 2009, 12:48

Here is the summation I provided on another forum, in case anyone's interested:

Kim Jong Il's successor has apparently just been named in North Korea: (http://worldfocus.org/blog/2009/06/02/north-koreas-frail-leader-chooses-a-successor/5608/) it will be, surprise surprise, Kim Jong Un, the youngest of Kim Jong Il's three sons. Reportedly, North Koreans are even already being taught a new song of allegiance to "our Commander Kim" (referring to Kim Jong Un). This ongoing practice of dynastic succession goes to even further confirm the summation of the country as essentially a feudal monarchy that I provided in my initial post here.

As the video in the article points out, Mr. Kim Jong Un wouldn't realistically assume the helm immediately after any passage of his father if that were to happen in the immediate future because there is a grooming process he has yet to go through. Kim Jong Il's grooming process for leadership required about 10 years. Nevertheless, the answer as to who will ultimately succeed Mr. Kim Jong Il as North Korea's official leader appears to have now been answered.

I'd thus like to take this opportunity to point out the fallacy of the World Socialist Web Site's allegations that Pyongyang's regime is a "Stalinist deformed workers' state". Their assessment suggest that there are elements of socialism to be found in North Korea. http://forums.matrixfans.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif They buy into the regime's official statements and logic much more than I do.

Pogue

3rd June 2009, 13:06

Do you ever make posts which don't consist of spamming? I'm no big fan of North Korea or any ruling class for that matter, but I don't interrupt threads with incessant spamming like yourself.

This isn't the DPRK mate - I can say what I want. I suggest you go educate yourself on what spamming is too.

Invariance

3rd June 2009, 16:31

This ongoing practice of dynastic succession goes to even further confirm the summation of the country as essentially a feudal monarchy that I provided in my initial post here. Just to point out, I think this is a rather poor means to assess a countries economic system; feudalism refers to a specific mode of production, i.e. an economic system dominated by small-scale agricultural production with peasants being bound to the land they work upon, with reciprocating duties owing to their land-owners who in turn have obligations to higher echelons in society, tracing up to the monarch. It is a system of production which has as its basis a multitude of peasants as the working population. Now, North Korea may have similarities to such a system - i.e. the 'monarch' being glorified in a religious light, but the similarities end there. Workers, proletarians, form the main basis of the population - not a system where peasants are tied to land and their landowners. What this makes North Korea, I don't know - there are minor elements of private trading as well as foreign businesses, and there are elements of planning too. Its premature to call it an 'ongoing practice of dynistic succession' - so far the only 'succession' has occured a grand total of once. But that doesn't define a countries economic system, anymore than multiple Bushes implies a hereditary government, although nepotism certainly plays its role.

Jimmie Higgins

3rd June 2009, 16:38

Considering that DPRK has a far more progressive attitude towards woman than, hell, most of the world, the only joke is your lack of analysis. The SPA and other organisations generally comprise of about 1/5 to 1/4 of woman; generally around the same as Australia. As a side-note, Cuba has one of the highest percentages, of around 45%. 5-month paid maternity leave, support by the State for the costs of children, free education, as well as a high percentage of woman in universities and in the work-force, these are signs of a far more progressive stance than most countries in the world.

Actually that joke was about US capitalist society. But I think the joke could apply to any country where the workers have no power like the US or North Korea.

Angry Young Man

3rd June 2009, 16:46

could this cause a conflict between kim yong il "royalists" and government supporters if the party decides to go the other way?

Do you mean like the English civil war?

Anyways, speaking of de facto royal families, would it be too dynastic if Raul Castro's daughter succeeded him?

Invariance

3rd June 2009, 16:54

This isn't the DPRK mate - I can say what I want. I suggest you go educate yourself on what spamming is too. I've got the best education on spamming, just by reading your posts:

I hope you never rise to a high position in the Stalinist administration, you'll be issuing the secret police with nukes to catch dissenters!

Looks like I got under your skin there, nevermind, go listen to the anthem of the USSR a bit more and calm down. Remember, military discipline, like the glorious Soviet soldier comrade!

I am sure this nuclear weapon brings them one step closer to GLORIOUS COMMUNISM.

But anyway North Korea sounds like a haven for the working man. Lets all move there and reap the benefits of this wonderful country.
Oh, wait, no. We're not allowed in.

You know Tupac Amaru II will be the next tourist over there, he knows how wonderful and socialist North Korea is :D

What a joke.

Regress back into true communism? Are you syaing the DPRK used to be communist but moved on from it?

Shit guys I might have to become a post-Communist.

:confused: Surely Kim Jong-il will live forever?

:lol:

I hope they hurry up and formally declare this guy the new leader so I can get his portrait up on my wall.

Well I think that the GLORIOUS USSR SHALL ARISE AGAIN AND RE-ESTABLISH COMMUNISM.

But thats just me.

Kassad

3rd June 2009, 17:06

I've got the best education on spamming, just by reading your posts:

Anti-communists like H-L-V-S are disappointed that sovereign countries like North Korea are attempting to defend themselves from imperialist sanctions and military aggression. His sympathizing with bourgeois fundamentals and their agenda impedes him from supporting a state trying to construct socialism.

:confused: Surely Kim Jong-il will live forever?

:lol:

I hope they hurry up and formally declare this guy the new leader so I can get his portrait up on my wall.

Some of the posts in this thread are testaments of ignorance regarding imperialism and colonialism. A country tries to construct socialism through revolution. Another country bombs the fuck out of this developing country to prevent socialism. This country issues sanctions on this nation, deploys troops on the border of this nation and constantly criticizes it. This country also continues a 50 year military conflict with no justification. The country being bombed, sanctioned and terrorized attempts to defend itself by developing nuclear weapons. And we criticize this nation for defending itself?

You honestly make me fucking sick.

Wanted Man

3rd June 2009, 17:18

This ongoing practice of dynastic succession goes to even further confirm the summation of the country as essentially a feudal monarchy that I provided in my initial post here.
It is not only a feudal monarchy, but also a plutocratic, aristocratic, oligarchic, meritocratic, gerontocratic, technocratic, magocracy.

See, I can make "summations" of countries too.

Led Zeppelin

3rd June 2009, 18:14

A country tries to construct socialism through revolution.

There was never a revolution in North-Korea. The Soviets took over the area north of the 38th parallel in 1945, while the US took control of the area south of it.

The DPRK was established in 1948 while the area it comprised was under Soviet control.

Anyway, it is true that this report has not been confirmed and that there's no real reliable evidence (if any) for it.

However, if it turns out to be the case, will all those people who are now screaming "western imperialist bourgeois propaganda!!!" (and are accusing anyone who believes it of being fooled by it, or of being agents of imperialism) admit they were wrong, and perhaps a bit too trigger-happy in defending the DPRK?

And if it turns out to not be the case, will all those people who are now screaming "evil hereditary feudalist monarchy!!!" (and are accusing anyone who doesn't believe it of being brainwashed by pro-DPRK propaganda, or of being too critical of bourgeois media) admit they were wrong, and perhaps a bit too trigger-happy in criticizing the DPRK?

To be honest I doubt it.

Revy

4th June 2009, 06:46

Despite the dictatorship, it is possible for North Korea to make a democratic way forward, without sabotaging their ideology or founding goals of the regime. In fact, the way forward involves paying more attention to them rather than establishing them as the Orwellian principles they currently are (and have been since North Korea was founded).

Kim Jong-Un, may come into his position in the most undemocratic way, but I hope he changes A LOT, so I am not ready to condemn him just yet.

Of great importance, are a few things: Ending the "Military First" policy and extreme isolation by seeking alliances that will help protect North Korea militarily (as well as politically and economically) rather than focusing the majority of the economy on the military; increasing democracy and civil liberties, from the ability for workers and progressive forces to raise demands without encountering repression, to the ability to access the Internet (not just one official gov't-run site on a mobile phone); and making a move toward socialism, meaningfully, experimenting with co-operatives, workers' councils, and such, rather than making moves toward free-trade, economic unification with South Korea, etc.

But then again, the pampered son (prince) of privilege may well follow in the foot-steps of his father. I just hope he doesn't.

Rascolnikov, if Kim Jong-il is NOT succeeded by one of his sons, I will admit that I am wrong, but there is no indication that it will not be one of his sons. I have never claimed specifically it is Kim Jong-un rather that it would be one of his sons (or even daughter), but I have doubted it would not be someone related to him. It is structured like a monarchy, just with different titles.

There is a song that North Koreans learn, called "No Motherland Without You". The lyrics go: "Comrade Kim Jong-il, We cannot live without you, Our country cannot exist without you!". Yeah, that's not a personality cult.:rolleyes:

Led Zeppelin

4th June 2009, 07:32

Rascolnikov, if Kim Jong-il is NOT succeeded by one of his sons, I will admit that I am wrong, but there is no indication that it will not be one of his sons. I have never claimed specifically it is Kim Jong-un rather that it would be one of his sons (or even daughter), but I have doubted it would not be someone related to him. It is structured like a monarchy, just with different titles.

There is a song that North Koreans learn, called "No Motherland Without You". The lyrics go: "Comrade Kim Jong-il, We cannot live without you, Our country cannot exist without you!". Yeah, that's not a personality cult.:rolleyes:

Well, yeah, it's pretty obvious that there's a big personality cult going on there, but we should remain critical of both sides on this matter and not take what one side says to heart when there's no solid evidence for it. That's all I was saying.

You seem to have a pretty level-headed approach to this.

Invariance

4th June 2009, 08:01

Of great importance, are a few things: Ending the "Military First" policy and extreme isolation by seeking alliances that will help protect North Korea militarily (as well as politically and economically) rather than focusing the majority of the economy on the military; increasing democracy and civil liberties, from the ability for workers and progressive forces to raise demands without encountering repression, to the ability to access the Internet (not just one official gov't-run site on a mobile phone); and making a move toward socialism, meaningfully, experimenting with co-operatives, workers' councils, and such, rather than making moves toward free-trade, economic unification with South Korea, etc. Whilst I doubt anyone here will agree with censorship of the Internet, your post ignores the fact that most North Koreans simply cannot afford a computer, let alone an Internet connection. Wage data is hard to find, but we know that South Korean companies that employ North Korean workers (which number in the tens of thousands) pay them a wage of around 70 to 75 US dollars a month, at most - which would be largely be spent basic essentials. That wage is likely to be higher than the average wage of the North Korean - some sources claim that the average wage of a North Korean worker ranges from 2000 to 3500 North Korean Won - 3500 won equaling around $25 US dollars. You may as well call for the ability of workers to drive Ferraris for all the relevance it has for working North Koreans.

Revy

4th June 2009, 10:26

Whilst I doubt anyone here will agree with censorship of the Internet, your post ignores the fact that most North Koreans simply cannot afford a computer, let alone an Internet connection. Wage data is hard to find, but we know that South Korean companies that employ North Korean workers (which number in the tens of thousands) pay them a wage of around 70 to 75 US dollars a month, at most - which would be largely be spent basic essentials. That wage is likely to be higher than the average wage of the North Korean - some sources claim that the average wage of a North Korean worker ranges from 2000 to 3500 North Korean Won - 3500 won equaling around $25 US dollars. You may as well call for the ability of workers to drive Ferraris for all the relevance it has for working North Koreans.

I have ALREADY dealt with this argument many times. It needs to stop being made. Until very recently, North Koreans were not able to access the Internet unless they were part of the elite. As it stands now, the government has provided for one official website available on mobile phones.

One does not need to own a computer to access the Internet. All you need is a cell phone nowadays, AND Internet access could be available at libraries (free) and cafes (for a fee).

Unlike some here, I have never claimed that every single North Korean is living in a shanty and starving to death. Many may be, but there are a number who aren't. Access to the Internet is not an issue of "whether anyone can afford it", it is "who is being allowed to access it".

There are many people in third world countries who can access the Internet. Quoting average wages can't demolish that fact. Please stop with this canard. The North Korean government is against the free flow of information because of the implications it would have. It is easier to control millions of people when they have only the government-run media.

apathy maybe

4th June 2009, 13:10

Ya'll all do know that one person doesn't control North Korea right?

Ya'll also know that the only reason that Burma isn't getting shit is because they keep to themselves, and if North Korea was more like Burma, there wouldn't be nearly as much news coverage about them.

No country is ruled by a single person, regardless of who the figure-head is.

Pogue

4th June 2009, 13:18

I've got the best education on spamming, just by reading your posts:

As I said, I suggest you go away and educate yourself on what spamming is.

Pogue

4th June 2009, 13:32

Anti-communists like H-L-V-S are disappointed that sovereign countries like North Korea are attempting to defend themselves from imperialist sanctions and military aggression. His sympathizing with bourgeois fundamentals and their agenda impedes him from supporting a state trying to construct socialism.

Some of the posts in this thread are testaments of ignorance regarding imperialism and colonialism. A country tries to construct socialism through revolution. Another country bombs the fuck out of this developing country to prevent socialism. This country issues sanctions on this nation, deploys troops on the border of this nation and constantly criticizes it. This country also continues a 50 year military conflict with no justification. The country being bombed, sanctioned and terrorized attempts to defend itself by developing nuclear weapons. And we criticize this nation for defending itself?

You honestly make me fucking sick.

No, a working class trys to make a better lfie for itself through a revolution. The revolution is hijacked by that disgusting phenonmenon that is Marx-Leininism. Another country attacks this country. This is an inter-capitalist war and as usual the working class suffers as worker is sent to kill worker by their respective bourgeoisie - either the traditional old bourgeoisie of the new 'red' bourgeoisie which hides its capitalism behind the red flag.

This new country then goes onto spend a shite load of money on wepaons and nukes while its people fucking starve, and treats them like morons by depriving them of any free press or true information, as well as trying to instill them with a divisive culture of nationalism. This country does nothing but lie and exploit its people in its pathetic bourgeoisie war games, which some red-capitalists with dead politics such as yourself lap up like the zombies you are because the nation uses the red star motif from time to time and your politics only extend as far as getting a bit excited over that.

The working class remains exploited, whilst the new ruling class lives in ridiculously expensive mansions watching movies in its personal cinema, occaisonaly posing for some fucked pu picture with his brainwashed proletarian troops who he uses as pawns in his little games. Leninists still lapping this up - its called the PEOPLES REPUBLIC after all!

So, if a country is being attacked by imperialism and exploited, why does it treat its people like shit and have corrupt wealthy leaders in charge? Surely if its being attacked it should focus its attentions on helping its people? No, because bourgeoisie states don't think about their people - arguably, they can't, because they are bourgeoisie states and its not what they do - doesn't stop zombies like yourself still cheerleading for them in your moronic fashion. But this is nothing new, theres loads of you cute little chappies. You're literally falling over yourselves in searching for some despot to praise cos 'HE R TEH ANTI-IMPERIALIZT MAN'.

Being attacked by imperialism is no excuse to destory democracy or workers control, regardless of how your buddies Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin tried to justify their supression of the working class. Bombs form imperialism don't destory socialist modes of organisation - the ruling class of the new bourgeoisie state does. This is what you grumpy old Leninists don't realise, or you do, but you don't want too because then you might realise your ideology is shit. Boo hoo, we've all known that for about 90 years now.

Bombs don't destroy workers councils, democracy, a free press, where public spending goes, the enw state does, as it did in Russia, China, DPRK, etc. The new ruling class, the party and state, destroys this.

I don't see how imperialism forced Kim Jong-il to not call elections to decide the leadership.

I'm not disgusted because I've been used to how you Leninists mindlessly become nationalists and apologists for bourgeoisie oppression as soon as the bourgeoisie declares itself 'socialist' and takes power - all of your fake support for the working class disappears at this point and is replaced by your hero worshipping of a dictator or a state.

Dimentio

4th June 2009, 13:43

If the youngest son takes over, we will experience a few years of power struggle within the elite (as in between 1994 and 1997), until Kim III or someone else emerges as the new leader. But Kim III is very young (25-26) and thus not so experienced within the system that he could control the generals in the same fashion which his father did.

Hiero

4th June 2009, 13:55

One does not need to own a computer to access the Internet. All you need is a cell phone nowadays, AND Internet access could be available at libraries (free) and cafes (for a fee).

Your comment is about as stupid as saying "if they are starving why don't they just go to mcdonalds".

In the west sure there are cafes and libaries with free interenet. But in the third world internet is usually only available for bourgeios, middle class, government and tourists. North Korea being a socialist third world country that is isolated because of the imperialist blockade and occupation of the south can't even get to this point of tourist colonies.

I have a hard time understanding you stupid anarchists. At one stage you say "omg they spending money on nukes when they should be spending it on food" (which ignores a whole lot about the blockade) then on the other hand you have in your head that the DPRK can easily afford high tech interenet service if they simply choose to implement it.

You are completly overestimating the abilities of third world countries. Take for example Cuba. They implemented a social policy call "a power revolution". Power outages were a huge problem in computer and also wasted power.The solution for a rich nation is to implement and upgrade, spending millions on a new system. The Cuban's don't have this liberty that the imperialists have. So they start with the basics which was checking all major powerlines for lose ends, damage etc then checking people's houses for faulty devices (you may remember last year new arictles from the imperialist say the Cubans were baning dvd players, it had to do with power consumption not censorship). Then they moved on to utilising oil to generate extra power during peak hours. So when a third world country that is under seige from the imperialist faces problems there is very little they can do and they have to utilise what they already have.

The reason I gave you the Cuban example is try and give you a new mindset about third world countries, and especially socialist third world countries. Sure there are libaries and things some similar to cafes in DPRK, but not the style your thinking about. Stop applying first world standards to third world countries.

Revy

4th June 2009, 15:12

Your comment is about as stupid as saying "if they are starving why don't they just go to mcdonalds".

In the west sure there are cafes and libaries with free interenet. But in the third world internet is usually only available for bourgeios, middle class, government and tourists. North Korea being a socialist third world country that is isolated because of the imperialist blockade and occupation of the south can't even get to this point of tourist colonies.

I have a hard time understanding you stupid anarchists. At one stage you say "omg they spending money on nukes when they should be spending it on food" (which ignores a whole lot about the blockade) then on the other hand you have in your head that the DPRK can easily afford high tech interenet service if they simply choose to implement it.

You are completly overestimating the abilities of third world countries. Take for example Cuba. They implemented a social policy call "a power revolution". Power outages were a huge problem in computer and also wasted power.The solution for a rich nation is to implement and upgrade, spending millions on a new system. The Cuban's don't have this liberty that the imperialists have. So they start with the basics which was checking all major powerlines for lose ends, damage etc then checking people's houses for faulty devices (you may remember last year new arictles from the imperialist say the Cubans were baning dvd players, it had to do with power consumption not censorship). Then they moved on to utilising oil to generate extra power during peak hours. So when a third world country that is under seige from the imperialist faces problems there is very little they can do and they have to utilise what they already have.

The reason I gave you the Cuban example is try and give you a new mindset about third world countries, and especially socialist third world countries. Sure there are libaries and things some similar to cafes in DPRK, but not the style your thinking about. Stop applying first world standards to third world countries.

Listen, troll. Why can't you read intently what I am posting?

I KNOW many North Koreans are in poverty. However, it is a gross over-simplification to somehow believe that every working class North Korean would not be able to afford the means of Internet access.

Again, the vast majority of the population is not allowed. I am not an anarchist. Maybe because I don't settle for authoritarian bureaucracy? Well, call me an anarchist.

I am going to ignore this argument from now on. It is simply ridiculous, and I don't need to repeat myself. Stop with the "All North Koreans can't afford Internet" BS as a justification for them being banned from accessing it.

Red_Storm

4th June 2009, 15:19

Well we can look at it from an optimistic view.
Maybe Kim Jong-Un will actually be like say Fidel or Lenin and help the DPRK prosper.
Prosper???!

Communist Theory

4th June 2009, 15:37

This isn't the DPRK mate - I can say what I want. I suggest you go educate yourself on what spamming is too. I'll educate him!

As I said, I suggest you go away and educate yourself on what spamming is.
Forum Spamming definition- Spam content is minimal, usually innocuous and unrelated to the forum's topic.

So can we please stop spamming it is annoying.

pastradamus

4th June 2009, 16:05

Hiero

5th June 2009, 02:31

Listen, troll. Why can't you read intently what I am posting?

I KNOW many North Koreans are in poverty. However, it is a gross over-simplification to somehow believe that every working class North Korean would not be able to afford the means of Internet access.

No you listen.

And individual needs to have access to a national infrastructure to connect to the interenet. This means thousands of miles of fibre optic cables, antennas and what ever the hell is need to make a wide area network. As far as I am aware North Korea does not have that infrastructure in place. Whether an individual can afford the internet is irrelevent, my understanding is there is no public interenet to connect to. Sure there is apparantly government officals who can use the interenet, but I imagine even this system is very power and doesn't extend out to rural areas.

It should be noted even in Australia only a few years ago at the start of the centaury there were people in rural and outer suburban areas who had no interenet access or the interenet access was so poor it could be considered pathetic by 1st and 3rd world standards. Australia's interenet access is pathetic simple because no government or private company has created an outstanding infrastructure. It doesn't matter if the individual has the purchasing power, if there is no pyhsical system then you have nothing to connect.

Glenn Beck

5th June 2009, 02:48

red-capitalists with dead politics such as yourself lap up like the zombies you are because the nation uses the red star motif from time to time and your politics only extend as far as getting a bit excited over that.
...
Leninists still lapping this up - its called the PEOPLES REPUBLIC after all!
...
You're literally falling over yourselves in searching for some despot to praise cos 'HE R TEH ANTI-IMPERIALIZT MAN'.

Your rhetoric is very nice and certainly pleasing to those who already agree with you, but sooner or later it might be a good idea to actually engage with your opponent's views on their own terms rather than make do with a second-hand caricature.Then you might be able to write a critique of the meta-ideology held by the overwhelming majority of radical leftists on Earth that is actually worthy of the time it takes to read it.

AvanteRedGarde

7th June 2009, 06:45

Monkey Smashes Heaven's (http://monkeysmashesheaven.wordpress.com) take:

The media is reporting that the northern Korean leadership has designated a successor to Kim Jong-il, the current supreme leader. According to reports, the regime is now pledging alliance to Kim Jong-un, youngest son of Kim Jong-il. Before Kim Jong-un was designated, the mantle was supposed to be passed to his brother Kim Jong-nam. The latter blew his chances in an embarrassing incident: he was arrested in Japan for trying to enter with a false passport from the Dominican Republic and a couple of floozies in tow. If the latest reports are true, then this will be the second time that the position of supreme leader in northern Korea has passed from father to son. Just as Kim Jong-un seems to be inheriting the position of future supreme leader, Kim Jong-il, the current supreme leader, inherited his position from his father Kim il-Sung.

It’s clear that a Kim dynasty controls the government of northern Korea. Not only has every supreme leader since the liberation of the northern half of Korea been in Kim Il-sung’s male line, but the mothers of his successors are also venerated. Kim il-Sung, who founded the dynasty, was regularly referred to as “father” in the northern Korean media.

The patriarchal dynasty that exists in northern Korea is not socialism, rather such is a trait of revisionism. Dynastic succession, historically, has been associated mostly with feudal traditions, although it is also widespread under capitalism. Like the northern Korean state, the Cuban state too, has kept the top leadership position within a single family. When Fidel Castro became incapacitated, his brother Raúl Castro inherited his position as top leader. Such dynastic succession in Cuba is ironic since Fidel Castro once criticized Mao’s personality cult as feudalistic. During the Cultural Revolution familial nepotism was criticized as revisionist, even though Mao himself was guilty of it to a certain extent.

Socialist societies never developed adequate methods to transfer power. The death of top leaders in socialist societies provided big openings for revisionists to take power. Proletarian politics and skills should be the basis for appointing socialist leaders and familial ties should not be a factor. In addition, future socialist societies will need to find ways of consolidating proletarian power that do not rely on the personal power of a top leader. Such power is inherently unstable and fleeting. Throughout the socialist period, there will never be a way to screen out all revisionists from holding positions of power. This is because the inequalities and imbalances within socialism are the very source of revisionism. Instead of focusing on individual realm in weeding out revisionism, it is more important to focus on the structural and ideological realms. Emphasis should be placed on fighting the social basis of revisionism itself in order to drain the pool that spawns the new capitalist class. And, widespread political education should be emphasized in order so that when revisionist policies are implemented, they provoke widespread revolt by the populace. These are lessons we ought take from the Cultural Revolution.