Israeli 'loyalty' law

[ComradeR]

The Israeli parliament has passed a preliminary reading of a bill that would mandate the imprisonment of anyone who calls for the end of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, according to the Jerusalem Post newspaper.
Source (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/05/200952716164623556.html)
This does not bode well for the direction Israel is moving in. Between this and the Nakba law the Israeli Palestinians are coming under increased threat and we could very well be facing a new Nakba in the not so distant future.
It's also worth noting that this "loyalty law" could be used to crack down on leftists and other opposition groups within Israel.

[h0m0revolutionary]

Just to expand on that, the bill says explicity that those who do not recognise Israel as a 'democratic', 'jewish' and 'zionist'(!) state will have failed their loyalty.

What the bill at this point remains unclear on is punishment for such apparent disloyalty.

Of course this is going to break the left even more and cause alot of disturbance in the Arab and Ultra-Orthodox Jewish community.

Having said that, i doubt it will go through, even Likud aren't that right wing. Remember this bill stems from far-right, Avigdor Leibermans Yisrael Beiteinu Party who have 15 seats, not enough to ensure this bill get's a smooth run through the Knesset

[Yehuda Stern]

Did the direction in which Israel has ever gone in bode well for the Palestinians? These are but symptoms of the hysteria of this reactionary regime in the stage of its senile demise. The Zionists know that they are losing their group, and are making every now and then all sorts of threats against Palestinian militants and refuseniks. The problem is that most of the time they can't actualize their threats because of imperialist public opinion, and when they do, they only damage their image in the world. It's a lose lose situation for them, and, at least in the long run, a win win situation for us.

[ComradeR]

Did the direction in which Israel has ever gone in bode well for the Palestinians?
No but what I fear is as the hold the Zionists have continues to weaken they will in a desperate bid to maintain control become even more violent and repressive, and we are seeing this with their continuing move towards the far-right.

The problem is that most of the time they can't actualize their threats because of imperialist public opinion, and when they do, they only damage their image in the world. It's a lose lose situation for them, and, at least in the long run, a win win situation for us.
That may well be but they can do a lot of damage and cause alot of suffering before they lose control. And the more desperate they become the more likely they will disregard public opinion and engage in increasingly violent acts.

[progressive_lefty]

Hopefully important issues like this can be communicated to the wider world. Fancy having the West continue support for Israel even if this was passed. Then it would start to make me wonder, what would it take for the West to actually do something for the Palestinians in Gaza, West Bank and inside Israel? Would there need to be another war in Gaza, but with more then 600+ civilians to die? How many civilian casualties does the West need before they will actually do something?

[fabiansocialist]

How many civilian casualties does the West need before they will actually do something?

"The West" (however you define it) will not act except for cosmetic measures and cheap words. The Europeans are toothless and spineless. And the Americans are in cahoots with Israel.

[Yehuda Stern]

Of course they can do a lot of damage in the mean time. That is why the role of revolutionaries isn't to hope for nicer Zionists but to build revolutionary parties to defend the working class from this damage and carry out the socialist revolution.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

I fear that the Arab people in Israel will have to tolerate more and more outrages of this sort. One can only salute their courage: they go on with their lives in the middle of such explicit racism and hatred from the Zionist state.

[Yehuda Stern]

They don't "go on with their lives," because a good part of them is murdered or just has no life, having to work endlessly to just barely make ends meet. You're talking like most Palestinians in Israel are living just like any other Israeli, only they suffer from the occasional racist attack. That, I can assure you, is certainly not the case.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

They don't "go on with their lives," because a good part of them is murdered or just has no life, having to work endlessly to just barely make ends meet. You're talking like most Palestinians in Israel are living just like any other Israeli, only they suffer from the occasional racist attack. That, I can assure you, is certainly not the case.

And what I'm saying is not very different from what you're saying. :)

If it makes you happy though, I'll take back what I said, and approve of what you said instead. :P

[redSHARP]

i think it is important to highlight how the working class Israel citizens and the Palestinians are suffering. this goes beyond arab vs. jewish state, this it pure exploitation at its finest! the working class Israeli is being manipulated to slaughter the Palestinian working class brethren for an establishment of a hierarchical society. the white israelis persecute and put down the africa falasha; this is racism and oppression!

however, i always wondered, if there is to be a Palestinian state in place of israel, what would happen to the israelis living there? why even have a palestian or israel state? wouldn't we want a worker's state in place of both nations? would a palestinian state lead to a better state of affairs for the working class in the region?

[Yehuda Stern]

i think it is important to highlight how the working class Israel citizens and the Palestinians are suffering.

Well, that may be, but the way you're saying it suggests some symmetry between the suffering of Israeli workers and the Palestinians, which is completely bogus. Israeli workers are exploited; however, Palestinian workers, inside and outside Israel, are not only exploited, but oppressed and murdered every day. This asymmetry feeds the national chauvinism of Israeli workers and means that probably only a tiny minority of them could actually become revolutionaries.


the white israelis persecute and put down the africa falasha; this is racism and oppression!

The Ethiopian Jews (which you should call that, or Beta Israel, or anything but Falasha, which is considered a derogatory term) probably are the most oppressed layer of Jewish society in Israel. They live in crushing poverty and face terrible discrimination, second only to that of the Arabs. Indeed, other than not being outright murdered by the state, I have a hard time explaining the fact that they have never adopted any radical politics. It may be that they are still relatively recent immigrants, or some other factor that I am not aware of because I haven't had enough contact with that community. I can only hope that the rise of revolutionary parties in the Arab world and especially Palestine will change that.


if there is to be a Palestinian state in place of israel, what would happen to the israelis living there? why even have a palestian or israel state?

To make an analogy to South Africa:


The overthrow of the hegemony of British Imperialism in South Africa can come about as the result of a military defeat of Great Britain and the disintegration of the Empire; in this case the South African whites can still for a certain period, hardly a considerable one, retain their domination over the blacks. Another possibility, which in practice could be connected with the first, is a revolution in Great Britain and her possessions. Three-quarters of the population of South Africa (almost six million of almost eight million) is composed of non-Europeans. A victorious revolution is unthinkable without the awakening of the native masses; in its turn it will give them what they are so lacking today, confidence in their strength, a heightened personal consciousness, a cultural growth. Under these conditions the South African Republic will emerge first of all as a “black” Republic; this does not exclude, of course, either full equality for whites or brotherly relations between the two races (which depends mainly upon the conduct of the whites). But it is entirely obvious that the predominant majority sf the population, liberated from slavish dependence, will put a certain imprint on the State.
~The Agrarian and National Questions

[redSHARP]

falasha is a derogatory term? uhhh...i got that term from my middle east text book form college...i might have to ask around now. that's a bit embarrassing.