Former fascists turned left

[L.J.Solidarity]

Do you know of people who were active fascists/nazis who turned away from fascism and later became leftists? Did any such person ever try to join your group/organisation, and was he/she accepted? Do you think someone who was a fascist deserves a "second chance"?
I think I'm facing such a case just now and I really don't know what to do.

[h0m0revolutionary]

Do you know of people who were active fascists/nazis who turned away from fascism and later became leftists? Did any such person ever try to join your group/organisation, and was he/she accepted? Do you think someone who was a fascist deserves a "second chance"?
I think I'm facing such a case just now and I really don't know what to do.


I know of a former fascist (BNP member) who joined a socialist orginisation (CPGB) left and then joined another socialist orginisaiton (Socialist Alliance) both orginisaitons accepted him gladly.

I'd hope my own orginisation would be alot more careful.
Personally im not willing to give the benefit of the doubt and would require alot of proof.

We all make mistakes, but fascism isn't merely an innocent mistake.

[RaiseYourVoice]

An member of the so called "autonomous nationalists" turned his back on his organisation and got in contact with us once. I wasn't involved with it much since it was in another city though. From what i know they met up with him a few times, he gave them a lot of internal information, addresses etc. He didn't join our organisation, we are still in contact with him afaik though and he sympathises with us.

[redSHARP]

until they openly combat their former comrades, one can never fully trust a former nazi. they always deserve a second chance, but caution is needed; try not to give away home addresses, meet in public areas, dont give out phone numbers (try using email), and in general follow the proper security culture protocol. make him comfortable (he might be useful and you dont want to tweak them out), and work with the ex-nazi; they have a lot to learn.

sometimes converting works, and the former nazi really helps out and tries to undo the damage they caused. some just want to say sorry and drop out of the scene entirely.

i knew of one, nice guy, but we did not trust him. he was sorry for his mistakes but also realized he could not make up for his past errors.

[Omi]

What has been said here pretty much hits the spot: Of course they should be given a "second chance", though caution is needed. Indeed ex-nazis can be a very usefull source, because they probably know the scene and line of thought better than we do. This way they can become a very productive member of the antifa movement, and maybe even convince his fellow buddys to quit the fascist whining too and join the class struggle.

Still remember, fascists are not so dumb, they can also send informants and infiltrating a movement based on solidarity and trust is not so hard s it seems. Be aware of the risks and be cautious. That's my 2 cents.:ninja:

[L.J.Solidarity]

The guy I'm talking about apparently (he didn't directly tell me, but gave some hints and I could easily find out the rest on the internet) was involved in fascist terrorism 30 years ago while also working for the West German secret service (Verfassungsschutz). I have no idea what he did later, but in 1997 he seems to still have been nazi. Does spying on his fascist comrades make him less guilty in your opinion?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Well put it this way if someone has a history of spying for the state , they may be too much of a risk.

[MikeSC]

Ricky Tomlinson was in the Front as a kid, or something like that. He more than made up for that in my book, though.

[AF-RedAndBlackStuff.co.uk]

Yeah, there is this amazing book called 'No Retreat' about the Red Action group in the 70's/80's who (working with AFA) cleaned the streets of fascist NF scum. Great book, kept me entertained and kept me laughing. I think the author of that book was a former fascist.

[h0m0revolutionary]

Ricky Tomlinson was in the Front as a kid, or something like that. He more than made up for that in my book, though.

By joining the SLP?

Ricky Tomlinson is still a fucking racist and the sooner socialists get over their love affair with their fascist-turned-leftie-moderate-racist the better.

Little anecdote.. a few years back I went into a bar with two four or so friends of mine, two of whom were afro-carribbean. Tomlinson, in this pub playing on his banjo to a wholly white audience greeted us approaching with something along the lines of 'haha look at these guys' ... 'and two cotton pickers too'

Fuck him.

[Tjis]

Be very careful about letting a former fascist into your organisation. Even if they genuinely turned left, it's unlikely that they cut all ties with the right-wing scene they were part of. Consider that in many cases the vast majority if not all of their (previous) friends are still in this scene.

[MikeSC]

By joining the SLP?

Ricky Tomlinson is still a fucking racist and the sooner socialists get over their love affair with their fascist-turned-leftie-moderate-racist the better.

Little anecdote.. a few years back I went into a bar with two four or so friends of mine, two of whom were afro-carribbean. Tomlinson, in this pub playing on his banjo to a wholly white audience greeted us approaching with something along the lines of 'haha look at these guys' ... 'and two cotton pickers too'

Fuck him.

Oh, I didn't know that. I was going off his imprisonment and involvement with flying pickets- he was quite eager to distance himself from racism in his book. I thought he seemed cool :(

[Rjevan]

As already said, I would be very careful, this could be a trick and nobody can ensure you that he won't leave your organistaion one day and bring back some infos to his old fascist friends.
But on the other hand it would be unfair to forbid him joining, if he really turned left, is ashamed about his old views and deeds but still experiences nothing but rejection he may be driven back to the fascists.

[communard resolution]

From what i know they met up with him a few times, he gave them a lot of internal information, addresses etc.

I'm sorry to say, but this implies weakness of character. If I were you I would gladly accept the info and then disassociate myself from him - or be super careful. He might do the same to you if he gets pissed off for some reason.

I wouldn't normally quote Caesar, but he was right in saying "I love the betrayal, but I don't love the traitor"

[Pogue]

Yeah, there is this amazing book called 'No Retreat' about the Red Action group in the 70's/80's who (working with AFA) cleaned the streets of fascist NF scum. Great book, kept me entertained and kept me laughing. I think the author of that book was a former fascist.

No, thats not right. One of the authors (its split into two sections) discovered AFA when they attacked him when he hitched a ride off of the NF one day - however, he makes it clear he wasn't actually with the NF, he was a Man Utd supporter who got a lift from them as they happened to be going down to London too for a fascist demonstration, the famous Battle of Lewisham, and he didn't really give a shit about the fact they were fascists. He got picked up by AFA when they attacked the NF bus, and AFA believed his story, and he became involved with them.

However the book does talk about 2 AFA members who were ex-NF, one of them even went onto lead a local AFA group because he became so trusted, and his conversion was so great.

Alot of people do switch. It depends on the nature - you can usually tell if someone is genuine about it. Often some formerly disillusioned working class person may see the light and move from far right ideas and organisations to the left, it has certainly happened alot and will continue too. And naturally you must be cautious, as most serious groupd are - meet them in public, don't go alone, no personal details and demand they prove themselves. Normally its easy to tell, and I doubt any fascists would have the brains or balls to lie about being a redeemed ex-fascist and go to the left - they'd get found out.

The book also

[nuisance]

No, thats not right. One of the authors (its split into two sections) discovered AFA when they attacked him when he hitched a ride off of the NF one day - however, he makes it clear he wasn't actually with the NF, he was a Man Utd supporter who got a lift from them as they happened to be going down to London too for a fascist demonstration, the famous Battle of Lewisham, and he didn't really give a shit about the fact they were fascists. He got picked up by AFA when they attacked the NF bus, and AFA believed his story, and he became involved with them.
Actually it was a non-alligned group of anti-fascists that Tilzey ran into, because AFA wasn't around then.

Nitpicking FTW!

[Batman]

There are also cases, some high-profile, of where people 'on the left' joined the right, of course too!

[Pogue]

Actually it was a non-alligned group of anti-fascists that Tilzey ran into, because AFA wasn't around then.

Nitpicking FTW!

Ah yes of course you are right.

Ok, it was a bunch of guys who were essentially the fore-runners of AFA and had the same ideas and tactics. This was before they felt a need ot organise formally as the AFA Stewards Group to protect SWP events, and obviously before they got kicked out of the SWP.

Happy?

[nuisance]

Ah yes of course you are right.

Ok, it was a bunch of guys who were essentially the fore-runners of AFA and had the same ideas and tactics. This was before they felt a need ot organise formally as the AFA Stewards Group to protect SWP events, and obviously before they got kicked out of the SWP.

Happy?
Not quite. The Squads were organised for the purpose of protecting SWP events and then were dissovled by the SWP, with members continuing to oppose fascism militantly being expelled from the SWP. AFA was set up after this to combat fascism and steward events.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

There's an interesting round-up of ex-fash here...OK, it won't let me post links, but if you go to www.rvar.org.uk (http://www.rvar.org.uk) and look at the FAQs it gives you a list of prominent fascists-turned-anti-fascists.

link (http://www.rvar.org.uk/pages/FAQs/recant.htm) fixed ~ Holden

[redSHARP]

There are also cases, some high-profile, of where people 'on the left' joined the right, of course too!


who did that, besides Benito?

[Holden Caulfield]

who did that, besides Benito?

You could say the likes of Strasser and Rohm saw themselves as being 'left-wing' althought by no means were due to their own prejudices.

There are many examples,

[Omi]

Horst Mahler, one of the founders of the RAF joined the NPD later on. He is now convicted to 6 years in prison for Holocaust denial, and wants restore the great german reich and the removal of anything jewish from german society. Talk about switching.:rolleyes:

[Pogue]

Not quite. The Squads were organised for the purpose of protecting SWP events and then were dissovled by the SWP, with members continuing to oppose fascism militantly being expelled from the SWP. AFA was set up after this to combat fascism and steward events.

Now your just being mean.

[Melbourne Lefty]

There are also cases, some high-profile, of where people 'on the left' joined the right, of course too!

Benito being the biggie.

[Pogue]

Mosley

[Melbourne Lefty]

Mosley

Yes i was reading Dave Rentons "Fascism" the other day and came across his rebuttal of Mosley being a lefty.

It went something like...



"If being in favour of a greatly socialised state made Mosley left wing then by extension all political parties in the 1930s were left wing".


It sorta didged the bullet that both Mosley and Il Duce saw themselves as left wingers first and foremost. So did Hitler really but probably with far less justification.

What makes someone "Left"?:confused:

[Pogue]

Yes i was reading Dave Rentons "Fascism" the other day and came across his rebuttal of Mosley being a lefty.

It went something like...



It sorta didged the bullet that both Mosley and Il Duce saw themselves as left wingers first and foremost. So did Hitler really but probably with far less justification.

What makes someone "Left"?:confused:

Fair enough, but he was certainly centre-left, and what today would be a kind of radical social democrat, and in that respect when he became a fascist he made a major change. Tony Benn says when he was younger he met and was even influenced by Mosley, before Mosley became a fascist.

[Bazza]

I heard that Matty from the band The Blaggers ITA was once in the british movement before becoming involved with AFA.

Going from left to right, bnp activist Trev Agnew was once in Class War.

[political_animal]

I heard that Matty from the band The Blaggers ITA was once in the british movement before becoming involved with AFA.

Yeah, I was just going to post that :thumbup1:

[Dimentio]

The guy I'm talking about apparently (he didn't directly tell me, but gave some hints and I could easily find out the rest on the internet) was involved in fascist terrorism 30 years ago while also working for the West German secret service (Verfassungsschutz). I have no idea what he did later, but in 1997 he seems to still have been nazi. Does spying on his fascist comrades make him less guilty in your opinion?

Mytomaniac with 75% certainty. Nutcase alert level red. Launch goblin evaporator. NOW!

[genstrike]

who did that, besides Benito?

There's a whole crop of people formerly on the left and Shachtmanish-type folks who wound up as neocons (sure, it might not be fascism, but it's pretty close)... Christopher Hitchens, Irving Kristol, etc.

[Sasha]

pim fortuyn was an marxist scholar before he turned into an extreme rightwing populist and in the end got murderd by an animal rights nut.

[Djehuti]

Do you know of people who were active fascists/nazis who turned away from fascism and later became leftists?


How about Richard Scheringer. His father had been a famous general (his family was of distinguished heritage) who died in the Great War. Richard Scheringer was also an officer during the war and during the 20ies in the Reichwehr. He was a young, typical paptriot from and old family of officers. When the french occupied Ruhr in the early 20ies Scheringer joined a resistance group that performed sabotage against the french. He came in contact with nazis and participated with them in many acts. But when he openly joined the NSDAP and built up nazi cells within the Reichwehr he went to far. The Reichwehr should formally be "unpolitical". Even if the majority in this corps loved him for what he did they had to kick him out of the Reichwehr. He was sentenced to one and a half year of prison for some act and was sent to Gollnow, a fortress for political prisoners.

In Gollnow sat almost exclusively communists, so he got into an excellent school. The political prisonrs were allowed to hang around and discuss with each other. Scheringer that had fought for his country and believed that Hitler was the savior of Germany was told that there was an alternative. He threw himself into extentive political studying and after a few months he realised how horribly he had been wrong. He used to say about marxism leninism that "there's no scientific work that can refute scientific socialism".

Scheringer was the martyre of the fascists and the nationalists when he sat in Gollnow. They used him in their propaganda and the young lieutenant was well known throughout the bourgeoisie as yet one of many patriots thrown in prison by the "qvasi-bolshevik" Weimar Republic. When he demanded three days of leave it was granted him. He promised his fellow prisoners to whistle the Internationale when he came back, if Goebbles had not talked him over.

Goebbles welcomed him in Berlin but could not answer any of Scheringers questions. They traveled together to Munich and met with Hitler, but he could not provide any answers either. The Führer sent for some bottles of champagne but that failed to soften up cheringer. When he returned to Gollnow the prisoners waited in tention, the mood quickly lightened when they heard him whistle.

Scheringer wrote from the fortress to many of his fellow officers in the Reichwehr and informed them why Hitler and fascism was dangerous for Germany, he appealed to them as patriots. The communist press of cource gave a lot of publicity to this matter and it became a huge scandal within the establishment that more and more openly supported Hitler. Scheringer recieved laundry bags with post and thousands of officers and bourgeoisie wondered: How can YOU do such a thing? Your father was a hero!

But Scheringer was not moved. The left the NSDAP and declared that his sympathies now laid with communist KPD. And the reaction struck back. Scheringer anew placed in custody and sent to the Moabit prion in Berlin accused of high treason. He was put to trial in 1932. Hitler witnessed at his trial and swoar that he did not have any plans to overthrow society, that Scheringer was wrong about his plans and had fallen victim to communist indoctrination. The court appealed to Scheringers class feeling and "respectability", how could the son of a fallen general work against the Reichwehr? But Scheringer answered them that seven million unemployed mattered more to him than an old general.

Scheringer was sentencted to some time in prison but was released in 1934, one year after the nazis rise to power, and it was lots of high militaries, friends of his father that saw this through. But Scheringer did not let anything affect him, he remained an active sympathiser of KPD even though he was later drafted into the war.

Scheringer was born in Aachen. 1945 he settled as a farmer in south Germany. The communists wanted him as minister for Agriculture when the first West German goverment was formed but the french stopped this from happening, refering to his sabotage during the Ruhr-occupation. Scheringer spent time in over 20 different prisons for his communism. Even after 1945. In West Germany.

During the years 1931-1933 the communists had an important argument in the case of Richard Scheringer. The nazis had made him into a national personality and when he quit and joined the communists they did anything in their power to make people forget. But Richard Scheringers name was shouted out in all power and his example surely shaked many thinking persons within the bourgeoisie.

[Pogue]

How about Richard Scheringer. His father had been a famous general (his family was of distinguished heritage) who died in the Great War. Richard Scheringer was also an officer during the war and during the 20ies in the Reichwehr. He was a young, typical paptriot from and old family of officers. When the french occupied Ruhr in the early 20ies Scheringer joined a resistance group that performed sabotage against the french. He came in contact with nazis and participated with them in many acts. But when he openly joined the NSDAP and built up nazi cells within the Reichwehr he went to far. The Reichwehr should formally be "unpolitical". Even if the majority in this corps loved him for what he did they had to kick him out of the Reichwehr. He was sentenced to one and a half year of prison for some act and was sent to Gollnow, a fortress for political prisoners.

In Gollnow sat almost exclusively communists, so he got into an excellent school. The political prisonrs were allowed to hang around and discuss with each other. Scheringer that had fought for his country and believed that Hitler was the savior of Germany was told that there was an alternative. He threw himself into extentive political studying and after a few months he realised how horribly he had been wrong. He used to say about marxism leninism that "there's no scientific work that can refute scientific socialism".

Scheringer was the martyre of the fascists and the nationalists when he sat in Gollnow. They used him in their propaganda and the young lieutenant was well known throughout the bourgeoisie as yet one of many patriots thrown in prison by the "qvasi-bolshevik" Weimar Republic. When he demanded three days of leave it was granted him. He promised his fellow prisoners to whistle the Internationale when he came back, if Goebbles had not talked him over.

Goebbles welcomed him in Berlin but could not answer any of Scheringers questions. They traveled together to Munich and met with Hitler, but he could not provide any answers either. The Führer sent for some bottles of champagne but that failed to soften up cheringer. When he returned to Gollnow the prisoners waited in tention, the mood quickly lightened when they heard him whistle.

Scheringer wrote from the fortress to many of his fellow officers in the Reichwehr and informed them why Hitler and fascism was dangerous for Germany, he appealed to them as patriots. The communist press of cource gave a lot of publicity to this matter and it became a huge scandal within the establishment that more and more openly supported Hitler. Scheringer recieved laundry bags with post and thousands of officers and bourgeoisie wondered: How can YOU do such a thing? Your father was a hero!

But Scheringer was not moved. The left the NSDAP and declared that his sympathies now laid with communist KPD. And the reaction struck back. Scheringer anew placed in custody and sent to the Moabit prion in Berlin accused of high treason. He was put to trial in 1932. Hitler witnessed at his trial and swoar that he did not have any plans to overthrow society, that Scheringer was wrong about his plans and had fallen victim to communist indoctrination. The court appealed to Scheringers class feeling and "respectability", how could the son of a fallen general work against the Reichwehr? But Scheringer answered them that seven million unemployed mattered more to him than an old general.

Scheringer was sentencted to some time in prison but was released in 1934, one year after the nazis rise to power, and it was lots of high militaries, friends of his father that saw this through. But Scheringer did not let anything affect him, he remained an active sympathiser of KPD even though he was later drafted into the war.

Scheringer was born in Aachen. 1945 he settled as a farmer in south Germany. The communists wanted him as minister for Agriculture when the first West German goverment was formed but the french stopped this from happening, refering to his sabotage during the Ruhr-occupation. Scheringer spent time in over 20 different prisons for his communism. Even after 1945. In West Germany.

During the years 1931-1933 the communists had an important argument in the case of Richard Scheringer. The nazis had made him into a national personality and when he quit and joined the communists they did anything in their power to make people forget. But Richard Scheringers name was shouted out in all power and his example surely shaked many thinking persons within the bourgeoisie.

Not really that inspiring? It doesn't realy seem as if his heart was in it - if a former Nazi turned Communist, I'd have thought they were would have more vehemently opposed Nazism from then on in.

[Melbourne Lefty]

But Richard Scheringers name was shouted out in all power and his example surely shaked many thinking persons within the bourgeoisie.


wow, where did you get this story from?