real-time strategy games suck now

[jake williams]

It's true. The last good RTS was Rise of Nations. Everything else sucks now. And it's disappointing, because we have all the resources and the know-how to make one that doesn't suck - that innovates but is still playable and intuitive.

I've just been having a conversation with a friend about video game history, and how stuff used to be amazing and new and such. I think I'm getting old.

[Black Dagger]

I think I'm getting old.

Maybe so! I had a similar perception of RTS games shortly after Red Alert 2 was realised. You might just be sick of the genre, it is quite stale/formulaic - at least to me. I got Red Alert 3 or whatever last year, the cut-scenes were cool (tim curry rules!), but as soon i had to sit thru gameplay i got bored and deleted the game. BUILD THIS BUILDING (repeat for infantry/vehicles/aircraft) K NOW BUILD THAT UNIT RUSH OH WAIT BUILD SOME DEFENCES TOO NOW RUSH WIN.

[mykittyhasaboner]

RTS is fun, well at least the two I've played are.

[redSHARP]

try warhammer 40k...i play the actual table top game, but the RTS is interesting, unit balancing, there is a build this/build that mentality, but the unit count is limited, and you can not build all your hard core units at once. also, your best unit can be taken out easily if you are not careful.

also try blitzkrieg 1 and 2. very hard, but very fun to play!! no building, but one has reinforcement points, so you can order in a unit of t-26's to punch a hole into the fascist defense lines or order a B-17 strike on Japanese positions. it is very tactical, especilly when dealing with enemy artilary. it can get repetative, but i find things new with the games everytime i play it.

rise of nations was sick!!! it was soooooo badass! i love the cold war campaign!!

[Black Dagger]

Yeah i should clarify... i played the most recent (as of early 2009) warhammer 40k RTS on PC... it was impressive but for someone who has been out of the 'RTS game' for so long i found it overly complex (excellent gfx + effects but). I don't think i have the patience to sit through the extensive tutorial (i tried!). I do like games like Civ IV though, turn-based strategy/geopolitical sims or whatever - they also require patience but i find them overall to be more rewarding than RTS' built on base-wars.

[Wanted Man]

Rise of Nations was good. But anyway, RTS do need more innovation. That reminds me, anyone remember that Star Wars game that was basically Age of Empires 2 with a Star Wars look? I don't think that would be tolerated today.

[Killfacer]

Couple of games worht a look:

Medieval total war 2. (part of it is turn based i knowm but it's great)
Men of War
Warcraft 3 (one of my favourite strategy game ever, mainly because of the extensive online fun to be had)

Having said that, i think you may be right. I was playing the old Alpha Centauri sid meirs game yesterday and i just thought "they don't make em like this anymore".

Still, there are good games to be had, you just got to look for them.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I heard company of heros was quite a good game.

[Black Sheep]

Total war series.
After that,all RTS games look like childrens' toys.How can you go from commanding 2000 troops, to 15 troops?

FFS.

[Holden Caulfield]

Company of Heros is good, not amazing tho.
Anything Total War is brilliant,

and the Warhammer games are actually pretty good (they are just company of heros with more stuff in them), the only down side is buying it and getting it home without being seen by anybody you know..

[Yazman]

WORLD IN CONFLICT.

Such an AMAZING game, brilliant story mode, fun multiplayer, and best of all:

No base building and no resource harvesting.

[Killfacer]

I would also add supreme commander. Thats a recently made top notch strategy game. Nothing more satisfying than seeing your swarms of bombers and fighters swamping an enemy base.

The only warhammer games worth getting are the Dawn of War series. Don't buy fucking Mark of Chaos because it's fucking shit.

[Holden Caulfield]

The only warhammer games worth getting are the Dawn of War series. Don't buy fucking Mark of Chaos because it's fucking shit. Dawn of War is what i was on about, i didnt kno there were other ones.

[Panda Tse Tung]

Total war series.
After that,all RTS games look like childrens' toys.How can you go from commanding 2000 troops, to 15 troops?

FFS.
I agree, Rome total war is awesome :).

[jake williams]

After that,all RTS games look like childrens' toys.How can you go from commanding 2000 troops, to 15 troops?

FFS.
That's what really annoys me. Instead of getting more complex and detailed, games have gotten simplified - even while we've developed technology to better support complexity (not to mention more sophisticated players with higher expectations).

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You know what would be awesome? A game that combines elements of turn-based strategy, RTS and FPS. Players could either be "generals" who would take turns to invade territories and strategically outmaneouver each other on a campaign map, but fight individual battles RTS-style. Or players could be "soldiers" actually fighting FPS-style on the battlefield, destroying enemy units to earn points that could be spent on buying better weapons and equipment for themselves. Such soldiers would represent a special class of unit available to generals, with traditional RTS-style general-controlled units making up the numbers. Generals could also construct special vehicle units for their player-soldiers to drive and shoot.

I provisionally call it Master of Command and Conquer: Grand Theft Armour of Orion. :laugh: It's probably been done already, though.

[Killfacer]

You know what would be awesome? A game that combines elements of turn-based strategy, RTS and FPS. Players could either be "generals" who would take turns to invade territories and strategically outmaneouver each other on a campaign map, but fight individual battles RTS-style. Or players could be "soldiers" actually fighting FPS-style on the battlefield, destroying enemy units to earn points that could be spent on buying better weapons and equipment for themselves. Such soldiers would represent a special class of unit available to generals, with traditional RTS-style general-controlled units making up the numbers. Generals could also construct special vehicle units for their player-soldiers to drive and shoot.

I provisionally call it Master of Command and Conquer: Grand Theft Armour of Orion. :laugh: It's probably been done already, though.

The closest i can think of that is probably Savage. One player is the commander who can contruct buildings and defences, the others are all the footroops. Honestly though it's pretty simplistic.

[hugsandmarxism]

WORLD IN CONFLICT.

Such an AMAZING game, brilliant story mode, fun multiplayer, and best of all:

No base building and no resource harvesting.

This. I played the demo, and it was awesome. I wanna play as the Soviets!!! :crying:

[LeninBalls]

Total War is shit, Company of Heroes you should definitley try.

[Dr Mindbender]

It's true. The last good RTS was Rise of Nations. Everything else sucks now. And it's disappointing, because we have all the resources and the know-how to make one that doesn't suck - that innovates but is still playable and intuitive.

I've just been having a conversation with a friend about video game history, and how stuff used to be amazing and new and such. I think I'm getting old.

CnC forever muvvafugga.

[Dr Mindbender]

You know what would be awesome? A game that combines elements of turn-based strategy, RTS and FPS. Players could either be "generals" who would take turns to invade territories and strategically outmaneouver each other on a campaign map, but fight individual battles RTS-style. Or players could be "soldiers" actually fighting FPS-style on the battlefield, destroying enemy units to earn points that could be spent on buying better weapons and equipment for themselves. Such soldiers would represent a special class of unit available to generals, with traditional RTS-style general-controlled units making up the numbers. Generals could also construct special vehicle units for their player-soldiers to drive and shoot.

I provisionally call it Master of Command and Conquer: Grand Theft Armour of Orion. :laugh: It's probably been done already, though.

Remove the turn based strategy, and you'd be onto a winner.

I'd genuinely love to see a command and conquer that allows you to switch between RTS and FPS mode- imagine- you're frustrated because your base is getting owned in a tank rush... ...imagine being able to grab a rocket launcher and take matters into your own hands!

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Remove the turn based strategy, and you'd be onto a winner.

I'd genuinely love to see a command and conquer that allows you to switch between RTS and FPS mode- imagine- you're frustrated because your base is getting owned in a tank rush... ...imagine being able to grab a rocket launcher and take matters into your own hands!

Actually, you could sort of do that kind of thing in Dungeon Keeper using the Possession spell, where you could take control of one of your minions directly, seeing the world through its eyes and moving, using their spells and attacking, although some creatures' spells (such as Teleport) were of limited utility (using it would take you back to the creature's lair since there was no way of inputting coordinates or whatever).

As you can probably tell, this feature was a little rough around the edges, and not quite what I was looking for, but it was certainly very cool. With a bit of work such a feature could add considerable depth to any RTS game, and would warm the cockles of every micro-manager's heart.

[Dimentio]

It's true. The last good RTS was Rise of Nations. Everything else sucks now. And it's disappointing, because we have all the resources and the know-how to make one that doesn't suck - that innovates but is still playable and intuitive.

I've just been having a conversation with a friend about video game history, and how stuff used to be amazing and new and such. I think I'm getting old.

Ever played the Europa Universalis games?

[piet11111]

RTS did go to shit but Empire total war is rather awesome as is world in conflict.

what i really want though is a ww2 RTS game with a shit ton of units (so many that you get several variations of a single unit) with the battlefield as large as the largest maps in supreme commander and the looks of world in conflict also having sea battles combined with a turn based campaign similar to empire total war including researching tech to unlock new unit variations.
the money for making units should just be a set amount that generates over time based on the state of your country's economy in the turn based part but not capped like world in conflict.
also the units being called in from off map exactly like world in conflict.
for airforce i guess you would be able to call them in similar to the TA strikes from WIC only without a cost except a purchase price that reflects contruction of said aircraft after that the strike just recharges to reflect refueling and rearming on an offmap airfield.
i suppose for balancing (not having 10.000 bombers just swarming the map) the player would be limited to 5 sets of airplane attacks (5x bombing strike for example along with other airplane attacks x5) but those attacks can be upgraded by buying more aircraft for them so instead of having 1 bomber you could have several in the attack.

[Dimentio]

Remove the turn based strategy, and you'd be onto a winner.

I'd genuinely love to see a command and conquer that allows you to switch between RTS and FPS mode- imagine- you're frustrated because your base is getting owned in a tank rush... ...imagine being able to grab a rocket launcher and take matters into your own hands!

There is actually one. You could either play Roman, Egyptian, Greek or Persian/Mesopotamian. Each civilisation has two hero units each. You could go "into" the hero unit and play as a FPS game.

[Dr Mindbender]

There is actually one. You could either play Roman, Egyptian, Greek or Persian/Mesopotamian. Each civilisation has two hero units each. You could go "into" the hero unit and play as a FPS game.

I want one with a modern or futuristic setting though; not spears and swords or that crap.

[mykittyhasaboner]

This. I played the demo, and it was awesome. I wanna play as the Soviets!!! :crying:

They have an expansion called Soviet Assault. It's so fucking good.

[Sam_b]

Real-time strategy games always sucked.


I want one with a modern or futuristic setting though

LOL NO SURPRISES THERE.

http://technocracy.org/images/page_images/technocracy_banner.jpg

[Dr Mindbender]

Real-time strategy games always sucked.


blasphemer!

Repent, in the name of Kane!

http://www.gameguru.in/images/cnc-kane-1.jpg

[piet11111]

I want one with a modern or futuristic setting though; not spears and swords or that crap.

supreme commander ?

i just like the real world touch you get with ww2 or perhaps the cold war turned hot.

[Dimentio]

I want one with a modern or futuristic setting though; not spears and swords or that crap.

Me and my cousins used to chase each-other with spears. And I mean sharp spears.

[Dr Mindbender]

Me and my cousins used to chase each-other with spears. And I mean sharp spears.

assault rifles would have been scarier though.

[Killfacer]

http://www.gameaxis.com/img/blog/2456/Image/ra2tanya7pk.jpg

"TWO ON THIS ONE"

"KERCHING"

"HAHAHAHAHAHAH"

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

LOL NO SURPRISES THERE.

http://technocracy.org/images/page_images/technocracy_banner.jpg

Modern and future weapons kick the shit out pre-gunpowder weapons, even magic ones (lol fantasy). You betta recognise!

I mean, if the world was being invaded:

http://www.revleft.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=332&pictureid=2902

Who would be more likely to save the day, a cyborg soldier armed with the latest and greatest weapons known to humanity:

http://www.revleft.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=202&pictureid=1328

Or this sorry hunk of meat with a piece (sorry, make that two pieces) of sharp metal:

http://www.revleft.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=170&pictureid=2903

My money's on the cyborg. While chopping up one's enemies into little bits is intensely satisfying, the Barbarian is way out of his league.

[Dimentio]

I prefer the Europa Universalis games

[Holden Caulfield]

Technocrats doing an awsome job at proving they arent just sci-fi geeks who played red alert a few too many times here:sleep:

[Cymru]

you can not beat the Age of Empires 2

[Mindtoaster]

None of my old RTS games are forward compatible with vista. been trying to play so many of them recently, but it just doesn't work :(

[Dr Mindbender]

Technocrats doing an awsome job at proving they arent just sci-fi geeks who played red alert a few too many times here:sleep:

You lot tried to imply we're all trekkies, i never implied that i wasnt a sci fi geek, not that it matters.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Technocrats doing an awsome job at proving they arent just sci-fi geeks who played red alert a few too many times here:sleep:

There's nothing wrong with being a sci-fi geek.

Red Alert is an awesome game.

I don't see the problem here.

[Glenn Beck]

Total war series.
After that,all RTS games look like childrens' toys.How can you go from commanding 2000 troops, to 15 troops?

FFS.

Well this is because, partly led by Relic, RTS are becoming more like RTT games, the emphasis is more on tactics and controlling a handful of units with a significant degree of depth. The ultimate end of this trend is the Dawn of War 2 campaign which plays more like an RPG than a traditional RTS.

Frankly I'm surprised nobody has thought to make an RTS/Hack and slash RPG hybrid, like the millions of starcraft/warcraft maps that have come out with that concept. It'd be so easy to do and would work well.

Also Red Alert 3 fucking sucked. Not only was there nothing new, the old formulas weren't even executed in a particularly inspiring way.

[redSHARP]

you can not beat the Age of Empires 2

no RTS captures the pure awesome that is AE 2!!! one of the greatest games ever made!!

[piet11111]

Technocrats doing an awsome job at proving they arent just sci-fi geeks who played red alert a few too many times here:sleep:

you just mad we kick your arse at C&C :laugh:

[NecroCommie]

I am convinced that the close combat series was made by Go... I mean Lenin. Try it out! The game gives you a certain amount of troops, which may or may not be ridiculously insufficient, and you have to live with it and fight. The troop morale is realistic, line of sight is realistic, weapon effects and damage is realistic... what more could one ask for?

[Black Sheep]

You know what would be awesome? A game that combines elements of turn-based strategy, RTS and FPS.
Another awesome thing would be to play a soldier in 1st/3rd person, who participates in an rts battle.

And that exactly is what mount & blade is.
www.taleworlds.com, you can DL the demo