Living in a council flat

[und]

For the last five years I've been living in one of several flats in a block. Some of the people I share this apartment with carry knives, play music at full volume, at 1am, while making sure that their cannabis smoke makes its way through the window into my bedroom, are generally inconsiderate of other people, and very unconscious of their class. I was once held in the lift for about 5 minutes, unable to get up to my house, because an idiotic kid of age 10 decided that he would keep pressing the button, mocking my attempts to go up.

Having said that, most of the people who live here are decent and working class, trying to make a living out of the little they've got.

This gives me mixed emotions. Should I be trying to get as far from this atmosphere as possible, or should I just try to keep myself happy?

[Pogue]

For the last five years I've been living in one of several of flats in a block. Some of the people I share this apartment with carry knives, play music at full volume, at 1am, while making sure that their cannabis smoke makes its way through the window into my bedroom, are generally inconsiderate of other people, and very unconscious of their class. I was once held in the lift for about 5 minutes, unable to get up to my house, because an idiotic kid of age 10 decided that he would keep pressing the button, mocking my attempts to go up.

Having said that, most of the people who live here are decent and working class, trying to make a living out of the little they've got.

This gives me mixed emotions. Should I be trying to get as far from this atmosphere as possible, or should I just try to keep myself happy?

Nothing is too good for the working class. Of course you should strive to have as comfortable and pleasant a life is possible - this is what everyone should strive for, and nothing less. There is no shame in wanting it or acquiring it, if its comes through hard work and your own labour. If you work hard your whole life and save up your money, then naturally you should aim to make your life more comfortable. We don't want martyrs after all.

As a libertarian socialist however I would never strive to make my life better at the expense of my fellow working class people (by exploiting their labour, as an example, or becoming one of their overlords in another way). And also, I aim to improve the lives of not just myself but my community too, as this is what libertarian socialism is about. This means that while seeking at every opputunity as humans naturally do, ways to make my life easier, I do it for my community too.

An example of this is mutual aid - my politics are not the politics of 'If enough working class people come to my side, I can acquire power!' as the politics of some political trends throughout history have been, moreover they are 'Only through unity an collective action can we make our lives better in the face of the state and capitalism, and only together can we overthrow it and make our lives so much better.' Human societies naturally flourish when we cooperate and live in harmony, and thus my self-interest is embedded in the interests of the community as a whole.

The issue you have is that you may be experiencing some of the negative effects of people forced to live a life of alienation, desperation and hopelessness. Council estates, in their very physicality, are like that. They were, allegedly, according to the government that built them, a quick fire attempt to force a sense of community by lumping a load of poor people together in deprived areas and hoping that because they cannot escape each other, they would socialise. An awful idea, but the real reason they were built was because they were cheap, they would become like ghettos for the working class (self-inclusive communities which the easily offended middle class could avoid) and they would serve as prisons, they were cramped and generic.

However, that does not mean they are neccesarily horrible places. Some currently are upheld by a sense of community which naturally drives down any problems. The people who live there are not helpless, they can change their community despite the states attempts to demonise the area and its residents.

A council estate just as anywhere can be infused with solidarity and community through struggle. If people unite on issues which clearly mutally benefit them, then a council estate can become as much a bastion of community and genuine living as anywhere else. Naturally, eventually, we'd hope people could live wherever they want with as much space as they want, and I have no doubt eventually this will be possible, but these places are only regarded as awful places, and the people, as a response to labelling, the way they are treated (capitalism in general) and the expectations they are given, may act in a certain way which seems contrary to the ideas of community.

So called 'bad' council estates are a symptom of a bad social system. They can be 'fixed' the same way the rest of society can be fixed - through direct action, collective struggle, the breaking down of barriers and wealth re-dstribution, putting people in control of their lives and community rather than the state and dodgy councils who quite simply do not care about the people in the estates.

[und]

Nothing is too good for the working class. Of course you should strive to have as comfortable and pleasant a life is possible - this is what everyone should strive for, and nothing less. There is no shame in wanting it or acquiring it, if its comes through hard work and your own labour. If you work hard your whole life and save up your money, then naturally you should aim to make your life more comfortable. We don't want martyrs after all.

As a libertarian socialist however I would never strive to make my life better at the expense of my fellow working class people (by exploiting their labour, as an example, or becoming one of their overlords in another way). And also, I aim to improve the lives of not just myself but my community too, as this is what libertarian socialism is about. This means that while seeking at every opputunity as humans naturally do, ways to make my life easier, I do it for my community too.

An example of this is mutual aid - my politics are not the politics of 'If enough working class people come to my side, I can acquire power!' as the politics of some political trends throughout history have been, moreover they are 'Only through unity an collective action can we make our lives better in the face of the state and capitalism, and only together can we overthrow it and make our lives so much better.' Human societies naturally flourish when we cooperate and live in harmony, and thus my self-interest is embedded in the interests of the community as a whole.

The issue you have is that you may be experiencing some of the negative effects of people forced to live a life of alienation, desperation and hopelessness. Council estates, in their very physicality, are like that. They were, allegedly, according to the government that built them, a quick fire attempt to force a sense of community by lumping a load of poor people together in deprived areas and hoping that because they cannot escape each other, they would socialise. An awful idea, but the real reason they were built was because they were cheap, they would become like ghettos for the working class (self-inclusive communities which the easily offended middle class could avoid) and they would serve as prisons, they were cramped and generic.

However, that does not mean they are neccesarily horrible places. Some currently are upheld by a sense of community which naturally drives down any problems. The people who live there are not helpless, they can change their community despite the states attempts to demonise the area and its residents.

A council estate just as anywhere can be infused with solidarity and community through struggle. If people unite on issues which clearly mutally benefit them, then a council estate can become as much a bastion of community and genuine living as anywhere else. Naturally, eventually, we'd hope people could live wherever they want with as much space as they want, and I have no doubt eventually this will be possible, but these places are only regarded as awful places, and the people, as a response to labelling, the way they are treated (capitalism in general) and the expectations they are given, may act in a certain way which seems contrary to the ideas of community.

So called 'bad' council estates are a symptom of a bad social system. They can be 'fixed' the same way the rest of society can be fixed - through direct action, collective struggle, the breaking down of barriers and wealth re-dstribution, putting people in control of their lives and community rather than the state and dodgy councils who quite simply do not care about the people in the estates.
My problem is that, as I said previously, nobody is conscious of their class, and like to bring down their fellow working class people through acts of stealing and bullying. In the grammar school I attend, I'm able to get along a lot better with these so called "middle class" people, and there are very few people like myself who live in council houses. My guess is around 5 in every 1000. In fact, I've found that there are a lot of people living in comfortable homes and with a considerable income, who are still able to share our communist ideologies. Many of their families are active in protests etc.

[Pogue]

My problem is that, as I said previously, nobody is conscious of their class, and like to bring down their fellow working class people through acts of stealing and bullying. In the grammar school I attend, I'm able to get along a lot better with these so called "middle class" people, and there are very few people like myself who live in council houses. My guess is around 5 in every 1000. In fact, I've found that there are a lot of people living in comfortable homes and with a considerable income, who are still able to share our communist ideologies. Many of their families are active in protests etc.

Well as you said, theiving criminal types are in the minority, and also trascend class barriers. They're scum, essentially. But obviously, they do not compromise a large amount of people at all.

In regards to homes, well, it depends on what your definition of working class is. My family saved up all their life wroking on the average pay for this country as nurses and we have quite a comfortable home. But the question is: How? And the answer is: Because both parents have worked for 40 years full time on low pay and saved up. And their parents did before them.

Basically its dependent on your idea of middle class. Certainly, kids and people from more well off backgrounds can be left wing in their thought and actions. Like you I knew alot of these people. Theres no contradiction for a young person - if your born into wealth, it doesn't mean you agree with it being there. And oncemore with the sorts of people who are incorrectly termed 'middle class', people like teachers, nurses etc (who are very much working class) - there is no reason why they wont be left wing. I know alot of people like this who are revolutionary left, and alot more besides who are just left of centre (social democrats). Its because they're working class people, rational people, intelligent people, and their politics ar an extension of this - they are critical of capitalism and see the benefits of an alternative.

Also, alot of children form what are deemed upper class or the real middle class backgrounds might be left wing. So, the children of rich business people, the children of people in government or bankers, etc. Certainly - they are not to blame for their parent's decisions or views. But the question you'd have to ask is - how long will they last? Left wing politics is not relevant to alot of them precisely because of their comfortable background, and they often approach the movement as an intellectual play thing, like so many people have done throughout history (look at how many 'radical' students there are who go on to sell out: take this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Cohn-Bendit) as an example.)

So yeh, alot of people in more well off backgrounds may be left wing due to the traditions, having access to such texts, and just being born out of activist traditions. And true, alot of people on the council estates may not have such traditions because they don't have the time to get involved in them - no resources, no encouragement, no desire, etc. Their experience in education may not be the same as ot mtoivate them as to get into this sort of thing.

But it doesn't mean it isn't relevant to them. As a libertarian socialist I don't pre-suppose that if a revolution were to happen it'd occur through loads of kids on the council estates reading Marx and thinking 'Yeh, this is true'. I think it will happen through struggle - they will engage in revolutionary struggle in one form or another, naturally, as part of their working class life (for example, even if I wasn't political, I still would have had to have faced up to the fact that a few months ago, me and a whole bunch of colleagues were sacked from the company we worked at because they were making job cuts because they were apparently doing 'badly' in the recession). As a libertarian socialist I believe their education will come through struggle, and thus they will emancipate themselves. The struggle is where those who were previously lacking in class cnciousness become class concious. As such, whether or not they are, at the moment, inclined towards left wing ideas is completely irrelevant - the point is, as working class people, they will at some point.

[ls]

For the last five years I've been living in one of several flats in a block. Some of the people I share this apartment with carry knives, play music at full volume, at 1am, while making sure that their cannabis smoke makes its way through the window into my bedroom, are generally inconsiderate of other people, and very unconscious of their class. I was once held in the lift for about 5 minutes, unable to get up to my house, because an idiotic kid of age 10 decided that he would keep pressing the button, mocking my attempts to go up.

That isn't nice but you should realise that people have it a lot worse in state housing too, some people I know have to live with people dealing drugs literally outside their doorstep.. and face intimidation by massive groups of hard young adults, attacking their income, confidence, health.. etc.


Having said that, most of the people who live here are decent and working class, trying to make a living out of the little they've got.


This gives me mixed emotions. Should I be trying to get as far from this atmosphere as possible?

What you've said yourself should tell you (most of the people who live here are decent and working class) and obviously you should want to enhance their/your own happiness and lives by dealing with the people causing trouble through a residents' association.

People who live in 'comfortable houses' are mostly working-class too of course, it's unsurprising seeing as the majority of the world is working-class. ;) You shouldn't necessarily let someone's accent, income or home dictate their presupposed class to you.

[und]

That isn't nice but you should realise that people have it a lot worse in state housing too, some people I know have to live with people dealing drugs literally outside their doorstep.. and face intimidation by massive groups of hard young adults, attacking their income, confidence, health.. etc.





What you've said yourself should tell you (most of the people who live here are decent and working class) and obviously you should want to enhance their/your own happiness and lives by dealing with the people causing trouble through a residents' association.

People who live in 'comfortable houses' are mostly working-class too of course, it's unsurprising seeing as the majority of the world is working-class. ;) You shouldn't necessarily let someone's accent, income or home dictate their presupposed class to you.
After that I did add "with a considerable income" which in my eyes makes them middle class, money equating to power in the world we live in. But thanks for reminding me of those who are a lot less fortunate than myself, it really helps to make me feel slightly more comfortable.
Another thing which annoys me about living in a council flat is that I actually feel embarassed. In two years, I will be going on a Russian exchange to Belarus, and someone will be coming to my home. From what I've been told by previous participants, almost all of the people who go on the exchange there have large, comfortable housing and a lavish lifestyle. I really don't know what they'll think when they come to a council flat in the suburbs of London, with puddles of piss wherever you go.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Don't be ashamed of where you live, anyone that looks down upon you needs to be confronted and when you confront them they will be shown up to be thinking completely ignorant snobbish shit.

I find it a bit strange what you said about your school. I didn't go to a grammar school so there weren't many 'middle class' people at my school but of those who were none were class conscious and most were snobbish reactionary tossers.

[und]

Don't be ashamed of where you live, anyone that looks down upon you needs to be confronted and when you confront them they will be shown up to be thinking completely ignorant snobbish shit.

I find it a bit strange what you said about your school. I didn't go to a grammar school so there weren't many 'middle class' people at my school but of those who were none were class conscious and most were snobbish reactionary tossers.
Well... Some of the people are the type who boast about their house being the most expensive on their street and costing in excess of £1million, but I take no notice of these people, and the only people who I have political conversarions with seem to be either unaligned or uninterested, or genuine left, which accounts for about 7 people out of 30 in my class. Most of them are middle or working class.