University expels students for burning NZ Flag - incl your truly [Archive]

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 07:33

Dear oh dear, I didn't even make it to the end of my first trimester.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10573713

Varsity students thrown out for NZ flag burning
NEW 5:14PM Thursday May 21, 2009
Victoria University has thrown out three students for staging an anti-war protest on campus.

Joel Cosgrove and Alastair Reith burnt a New Zealand flag while Ian Anderson filmed it. All have been dissenrolled, with the University saying it was serious misconduct.

The group say they were attempting to highlight New Zealand's involvement in wars of aggression from the Boer War, the World Wars, Vietnam and Afghanistan.

The students are rejecting the university's actions, saying they will continue to attend all their classes.

- NEWSTALK ZB

http://workersparty.org.nz/2009/05/21/victoria-university-kicks-out-students-for-anti-war-protest/

Victoria University kicks out students for anti-war protest
PRESS RELEASE

Victoria University has disenrolled three students for an anti-war protest around Anzac day, and issued a warning to another student. Deborah Willis, Dean of the Humanities faculty, has disenrolled Joel Cosgrove and Alastair Reith, claiming a flag burning protest they held was serious misconduct. Ian Anderson who filmed the protest outside the Mount Street bar on campus has also been disenrolled, and Marika Pratley who was present, was issued a warning. The university has also banned all four from the Mount Street bar. The protest on 6 May was to highlight New Zealand involvement in wars of aggression from the Boer War, the World Wars, Vietnam to Afghanistan.

All four students are members of the Workers Party.

“The 20 second flag burning, which took place outside, in the rain, posed no danger to anyone” said Workers Party secretary Daphna Whitmore. “Universities are supposed to be the critical conscience of society. The actions of the University are political harassment and an attack on political freedom of expression on campus” she said.

The students are rejecting the university’s draconian actions against them and say they will continue to attend classes. They are calling on staff and other students to support their right to freedom of expression. END

Contact Daphna Whitmore 029 4949865 Joel Cosgrove 027 6009282

.................................................. .................................................. ................................................

The uni's claiming this is about 'health and safety'. Bullshit. Ian filmed the flag being burned and he's being expelled too... Marika watched it happen and is being given a warning. The uni's saying that this is because 'they knew about it and did nothing'. The university is now supposedly able to punish you for what's inside your head.

I'm not certain that their point about the deck at the Bar is valid, either, since it had been pouring with rain & the wood was soaked; and the space is routinely used as a smokers' deck, which suggests an already cavalier attitude to fire there already!

We plan on organising a picket and possibly some other actions in protest against this next Friday.

This is fucking outrageous.

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 07:38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Vjz1ujiGo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fworkersparty%2Eorg%2Enz%2F2009%2 F05%2F06%2Fanzac%2Dday%2Dlest%2Dwe%2Dforget%2F&feature=player_embedded

Here's the video of what we did. Next time I'll use a pole lol had to drop the flag, very amateurish, but you live and learn eh. It had been raining for days, the wood was soaked, and it's a smokers area ffs!

We're not going to take this lying down.

Pirate turtle the 11th

21st May 2009, 08:05

Just keep going on about it and after a while your get your place back.

Anyway good luck.

An archist

21st May 2009, 08:42

Wait, what? They expelled you for burning a flag? Are you at an ultra-conservative university?

NecroCommie

21st May 2009, 09:04

By the mother of all that is holy!!!

They really should expell those teachers from life for being so mind numbingly biased.

Stranger Than Paradise

21st May 2009, 09:10

Fuck that shit.... You need to show them they cant do that.

21st May 2009, 09:27

Good luck! I hope you make your point and stay there.

Hoggy_RS

21st May 2009, 09:40

Good luck man, hope you get your place back

21st May 2009, 09:49

Thats shit.Does law "covers" this actions of the university?Hope you manage it back.
And just a side note, next time, hood ;)

Fuserg9:star:

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 10:23

Wait, what? They expelled you for burning a flag? Are you at an ultra-conservative university?

Their trying to portray it as being about "health and safety" issues, that by burning a flag we endangered people and university property. It's rubbish of course.

And just a side note, next time, hood ;)

Nah we weren't hiding anything, we'd publicly made an anti-imperialist speech at the Student Meeting about ANZAC Day right before we went outside and burned the flag. We want to publicly identify with our actions and our politics rather than hiding behind masks.

Wakizashi the Bolshevik

21st May 2009, 10:47

WTF man, getting expelled for burning a flag?

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 10:57

http://www.radionz.co.nz/__data/assets/audio_item/0010/1954909/ckpt-20090521-1725-Flag_burning_students_kicked_out_of_University-m048.asx

Radio interview we gave, I'm the guy who talks first. Line was fucking up quite a bit and my voice is really quiet, but we still got some points across. She gave us a lot less time than the Dean who she spoke to afterwards, and we weren't able to get much of the politics behind our action through but we still got some stuff through.

bellyscratch

21st May 2009, 11:12

Good luck with getting your places back. This seems like an awful decision by your university.

Demogorgon

21st May 2009, 11:27

You need to go to court concerning this. Find a good Human Rights lawyer who will work pro bono and sue. Unless the University has an ultra-strict fire safety policy which involves expelling students for breaches without even issuing a warning (which it doesn't have or at least does not enforce if it let's people wander about with lit cigarettes in the area) then it cannot credibly claim that this was an exclusively health and safety issue.

So, as I say, you need to sue. Even if you cannot get your place back you should at least be entitled to be compensated.

Seriously though, when I caught the beginning of the tread title ("University expels students..."), I thought it would be another thread about the Iranian authorities clamping down on Student Dissidents as this is the kind of behaviour they have been engaging in of late. For it to happen in New Zealand is very serious indeed.

Pogue

21st May 2009, 12:13

Thats really fucked up, this is clearly a case of the university wielding its supreme power to get rid of you for doing something it doesn't like. I think if you put enough pressure on, you could get out of this OK and remain at the university, just picket regularly, get enough support, etc.

Pirate Utopian

21st May 2009, 12:27

That's some bullshit.
Good luck with this shit, man.

Rjevan

21st May 2009, 13:48

I beg your pardon? You're going to get expelled for burning a flag because that might have endangered the college? That's one of the most stuid arguments I ever heard!
I didn't know that there's such a strong right-wing tendency in New Zealand, this is ridiculous, I would also advise you to go to court, the college administration can't get throught with this strange and lame argument! Don't give up and good luck, comrade!

Uppercut

21st May 2009, 14:05

That sucks. Like the others said, just picket, get enough enough support and fight the system. Worse come to worse, form a militia and overthrow the university!

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 14:19

Yeah we're going to have pickets. It's funny because the Workers Party national conference (Workers Resistance 2009) is is Wellington in about a week and a half, so they've timed it perfectly. :p An influx of communists into town just in time for the pickets...

Just to be clear, I'm not being suspended permanently, only for about three weeks actually until next trimester. However that means me and my comrades are going to fail all our papers because we can't do exams, and those cost us a bit of money.

The other interesting thing is that this isn't revealing at all of some right wing or conservative tendency in New Zealand. What is shows rather is that PC liberalism, the new ideology of the ruling class, is no less potentially oppressive or reactionary than what came before it. They know they can't expel us these days for the flag burning itself, so feel the need to hide behind a lame excuse of "health and safety".

21st May 2009, 14:20

Good luck with your fight!

Sam_b

21st May 2009, 14:35

Pickets are a good idea, and may I suggest maybe a Worker's Party organised fundraiser - some sort of gig or something - to help you and your comrades pay for some of the extra fees that will occour? I think that may be a good idea, as well as raising the awareness.

Regardless, good luck with your fight and i'll try and help any way I can over here. Is there an email address where we can send letters of protest?

21st May 2009, 14:47

Is there an email address where we can send letters of protest?
Yes, I was wondering the same.

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 14:53

All it really means in terms of extra fees is larger student loans so there probably won't be too many immediate problems with that. Ironically by going on the dole (something you can't do as a student) we can earn more money every week than you get from your student allowance or student loan money! :p

21st May 2009, 14:54

Post the dean's email address, as well as any others that were involved in issuing this.

Kassad

21st May 2009, 14:54

Good luck in your struggle. The punishment is absurd, but I reiterate Sam_b's question and ask if there is an e-mail or address where we can contact the university to express solidarity with your actions and protest the expulsion?

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 14:54

I'm trying to find the email of Deborah Willis, the horrible old bat who is behind this. Send her all the emails you want. :)

21st May 2009, 14:57

Post anyone's email that is above her as well, as well as anyone else that can pressure her.

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 14:58

[email protected]

Fill her inbox with angry emails!

Sam_b

21st May 2009, 15:02

I have a lecture, but I will do so tonight. I encourage other unversity students and academics to email from their uni addresses to give this issue more weight.

Alastair: Is it worth CCing a copy back to the Workers Party as well?

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 15:07

That could be good. The idea is that within the next day or two we'll have a petition/statement of some sort to take around to all our lecturers, tutors, and people in general to sign saying that they oppose our expulsion.

Once it's finished I'll stick it up here and comrades on RevLeft can sign it, and hopefully get their parties, unions and other organisations to sign it too.

Cheers for all the support comrades really great.

mykittyhasaboner

21st May 2009, 15:08

[email protected]

Fill her inbox with angry emails!

She'll be getting a lot more than angry emails. :D

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 15:09

No goatse please... ;-)

http://www.radionz.co.nz/search?queries_all_query=checkpoint+university&search_page_23819_submit_button=Submit&category_search=&current_result_page=0&results_per_page=10&submitted_search_category=&mode=results

This is a link which will get you to the radio interview we gave, since apparently the other one I put up around the place doesn't work properly. Number 2, "Flag burning students kicked out of University".

BobKKKindle$

21st May 2009, 15:10

I recommend you post this in the CC as well so it gets more exposure. Also, in relation to the last post, in the interests of credibility perhaps it's not a good idea to send her complete nonsense, i.e. expletives and/or crass images? Just be firm and forceful, and show that you're a serious activist who cares about the violation of free speech.

Invariance

21st May 2009, 15:12

I presume their is some sort of Student Union or student representative body? Have you argued your position to them? If such a body exists, that seems like your best option in putting pressure on the University administration.

Good luck. From what I have read, flag burning has been upheld in the High Court, in the context of a protest, as protected under New Zealand's Bill of Rights Act, where an individual's conviction for burning a flag was overturned. Seems unfair for you to be expelled for something which (appears to be) legally protected. Even if it was a health and safety issue, it was a totally improportionate response on behalf of the university - where is the due process? Were you given an opportunity to make a response? Or was it just enforced on you? I would reiterate the point of obtaining legal advice.

21st May 2009, 15:14

She looks a tiny bit possessed http://www.victoria.ac.nz/fhss/about-us/staff-bios/deborah-willis.aspx.

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 15:21

We'll be getting some support for individuals within the Student's Association, but I doubt we'll get much help from them as a body. Things are complicated slightly by the fact that the President of VUWSA was recently expelled from our organisation, the Workers Party, for acting in a manner completely contrary to our politics and basic socialist principles, such as proposing slashes to benefits, sick leave etc for staff at the Association and proposing replacing the "unrestricted right to strike" clause in the staff collective (put in there by previous WP activists on the association) with the right to strike "under the Employment Relations Act", which heavily restricts it. Needless to say relations are not friendly between the Party and this individual at the moment, we're well rid of her.

We were offered meetings with the Dean to discuss the matter, but we boycotted them. She wanted to see us individually at separate times in order to isolate us, and the majority of people who gave witness statements on the flag burning were members of Young Labour! It was always going to be a politically motivated kangaroo court, so we didn't go.

We've been interviewed by various radio stations, it's going to be in several newspapers and we may even get on TV, so the University are going to bloody regret this. We're going to smear their name with mud...

BobKKKindle$

21st May 2009, 15:22

Here's mine:

Dear Deborah Willis,

I do not attend Victoria University, but as someone who considers themselves
part of the British anti-war movement, and follows the experience of fellow
anti-war activists around the world, I was upset to find that your establishment
has recently expelled a number of students for engaging in a legitimate anti-war
protest against the historic and ongoing crimes that have been committed by the
government of New Zealand, alongside other states that have engaged in wars of
aggression. I have learned that these students were ostensibly expelled for
breaching health and safety regulations, and yet it appears that they did not
receive a warning, and the area in which the protest was being conducted is also
used as an area for students and staff to smoke, and so I find it difficult to
believe that this was really about health and safety, especially in light of the
fact that the area was wet on the day of the protest and therefore not liable to
catch fire or pose any risk to students.

Rather, I think that it is clear to everyone that the response of Victoria
University was an attempt to restrict the right of students to protest. I feel
that students who break away from the ideological consensus that pervades our
society and express their views on such a heated topic as war are to be admired,
and for this reason the students who were involved deserve to be reinstated, and
should not be made to pay any fine whatsoever. It is particularly unjust that
these students were expelled just before they were due to take their exams, and
I hope that you and your colleagues will reverse your decision in the interests
of free expression and creating a democratic environment on campus, and
acknowledge the unjust nature of the punishment that has been handed out.

--- ---, from --- University

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 15:25

Good as Bob :-)

21st May 2009, 15:29

Get this on Facebook!:thumbup1:

choff

21st May 2009, 15:33

This is absurd. Good luck.

21st May 2009, 15:38

I think it would also be a good idea to invite them to a meeting that you've set up to discuss this on your terms, and to communicate the very negative implications their action will have should they not reverse it.

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 15:42

http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=588613678&share_id=83320827319&post_id=83320827319&comments

BobKKKindle$

21st May 2009, 15:48

Start a group. I think that's what KC meant.

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 15:50

Ah ok. Again, happening in the next few days.

21st May 2009, 16:01

Protest mail sent, using the message BK wrote (edited it for grammar errors and making it more readable though).

Saorsa

21st May 2009, 16:04

I think it would look better if people wrote their own emails, more organic. But if you can't be fucked feel free to use BK's. Cheers comrades. Anyway I'm off to bed, keep the emails flying so Deborah wakes up this morning with a nice full inbox :-)

Kamerat

21st May 2009, 17:13

Mail sent. Hope you and your comrades get that suspension removed so you can turn in your exams.
Good luck.

Del

21st May 2009, 17:52

Email sent, hope to hear of your successful appeal against this ridiculous suspension.

OneNamedNameLess

21st May 2009, 18:02

Good work and the very best of luck to you.

bellyscratch

21st May 2009, 18:28

I've sent an email for you. Good luck :)

cyu

21st May 2009, 18:42

The students are rejecting the university's actions, saying they will continue to attend all their classes.

Well done! :thumbup1:

cyu

21st May 2009, 19:15

By the way, also covered at indymedia: http://indymedia.org.nz/feature/display/72119/index.php

Yehuda Stern

21st May 2009, 19:50

Good luck with your struggle, comrade. I think you did a brave thing and you have mine and my comrades' full support.

KaubanProcs

21st May 2009, 20:29

I made a topic about it in my school's paper's forum. I'll try to contact other leftists in my city to drum up some support.

Kassad

22nd May 2009, 00:00

I just sent an e-mail and I'm working on a piece for the Party for Socialism and Liberation on it. Stand resolute in the face of adversity.

Il Medico

22nd May 2009, 00:59

God Damn! I guess your government is just as bad as ours. they preach freedom of speech, but then try to crush it. What a great thing they stopped communism from taking our freedom!:rolleyes: Because then they could do it themselves!:rolleyes: Good Luck Man.

gorillafuck

22nd May 2009, 01:16

Good luck! You have our solidarity:)

Rusty Shackleford

22nd May 2009, 02:15

well i emailed her. at the last minute though i removed 'Fuck You From the United States'

i will try ot bring this up at school to help get a bit of solidarity.

RHIZOMES

22nd May 2009, 02:45

This is fucking excellent. Awe inspiring. Thanks everyone who is sending e-mails and doing other things. Me and another WP comrade are organizing a solidarity protest up here at Auckland Uni.

Rusty Shackleford

22nd May 2009, 02:55

If there is one thing you can get from this site. that is international solidarity. Keep it up comrades!

Audeamus

22nd May 2009, 02:57

Email sent. At least I think so...school email doesn't seem to like me.

gorillafuck

22nd May 2009, 03:02

This is fucking excellent. Awe inspiring. Thanks everyone who is sending e-mails and doing other things. Me and another WP comrade are organizing a solidarity protest up here at Auckland Uni.
Nice!

I love how quickly people are taking action on this. This may just bite Victoria University in the ass:laugh:

Saorsa

22nd May 2009, 04:23

Just got interviewed over the past few hours by TVOne and TV3, I'll put the videos up here once their online.

RHIZOMES

22nd May 2009, 07:25

Just saw them on TV1 and TV3, it was fucking cool.

RHIZOMES

22nd May 2009, 08:18

Here's the TV3 News report

http://www.3news.co.nz/Video/National/tabid/309/articleID/105428/cat/64/Default.aspx#video

bellyscratch

22nd May 2009, 10:41

Love the Karl Marx t-shirt on the video :D

Small Geezer

22nd May 2009, 11:11

Man, watching the news and reading the comments on the WP page, it amazes me how worked up people can get over a fucking flag.

There's no critical analysis at all, it's just 'little ratbags' or some such shit.

Yehuda Stern

22nd May 2009, 11:24

We're having a discussion today, I'll raise this point and ask that we send letters of protest too, and I'll be sure to refer other contacts of ours to this issue. I expect no problems.

Pogue

22nd May 2009, 11:40

I do love the act of flag burning, despite becomig slightly cliched it is so powerful. This is a non-incident really, a good, small protest that is of no real consequence beynd being a good symbolic commemoration of imperialism's crimes - the universiy is just flexing its muscles. I am confident you'll come out on top after this.

Andropov

22nd May 2009, 12:56

You can be certain ill be bringing this to the attention of Universites here.
Good work and I hope you bring the bastards down.
If theres one universal currency its bad publicity, keep it going.

Sam_b

22nd May 2009, 17:12

I have just sent this email:

Dear Ms Willis,

I am not a student at Victoria University myself, but I was dismayed and disappointed to hear about the punitive action taken against three of your students (Alastair Reith, Joel Cosgrove and Ian Anderson) for exercising their free speech and to protest the extent of wars in which New Zealand is complicit in. Under the guise of Health and Safety rules, you have prevented these students from sitting their exams and forcing them to take out yet more money to continue their studies. You have essentially taxed these students for a violation in which nobody got hurt and no significant risk was posed to students or the public!

As a university student I attend my classes in order to expand my personal knowledge, to question and to learn. All that Victoria University has done in this instance is to restrict the right of students to hold a protest against what they consider to be wrong and to question the policies of your government. I believe your action is politically motivated rather than any real concern for students.

In light of this I implore you and your colleagues to overturn this suspension; in order to ensure a democratic, active and questioning campus in which students can be proud of. Up until now you have been completely unjust.

I await your reply on this matter.

Yours Sincerely,
Sam_b
University of XXXXXX, XXXXXXX

Rjevan

22nd May 2009, 22:34

Here is mine:

Dear Ms Willis,

I was surprised to learn that three of your students at Victoria University, Alastair Reith, Joel Cosgrove and Ian Anderson, were expelled because of burning a flag during an anti-war demonstration. I saw a video of the flag-burning and I find it hard to believe that there was any danger to health and safety at any moment for the university building or other students, especially since the area where the flag-burning took place is used for smoking usually and besides it had been raining the days before.

Therefore I see the punishment of these three students as making an example and the attempt to limit the right of free speech and the right of the students to protest. One gets the impression, that expelling the students without even a warning and just before they could take their exams, is politically motivated and used to get rid of people who share a different view than yourself regarding important topics of our society.

This unjust and dubious action casts a damning light on your university, on yourself and your colleagues and is a shame for any truly democratic society. I really hope that you consider this case again and take this unjust punishment back in order to show that your university is interested in a truly democratic, open and questioning environment.

Yours sincerely,
Arne Rjevan, student from Germany

RHIZOMES

22nd May 2009, 22:41

Here's the TV1 news coverage

http://tvnz.co.nz/one-news/update-video-966704

a bit more reactionary lol, although it has some cool footage of when another Workers Party member Paul Hopkinson burnt the flag in 2003 (Which he had to go to court for).

Rusty Shackleford

23rd May 2009, 00:33

i saw an article trying to smear you guys by saying it was a plea for attention. i dont remember what paper said it, but it was a NZ based one. found it on google news.

elgranlocomotor

23rd May 2009, 00:54

I've sent my email in as well. Hoping for the best, and I'm way proud of you guys.

Small Geezer

23rd May 2009, 05:10

To Ms Deborah Willis,

I am writing to you to express my indignation at the universties' decision to temporarily disenrol students Ian Anderson, Joel Cosgrove and Alastair Reith for the act of burning the New Zealand flag on campus grounds in protest against NZ involvement in foreign wars of aggression.

The argument that the flag burning was somehow a health and safety risk appears weak as the video shows that the fire was kept well under control and the surrounding area was wet.

These students are conscientious individuals who fulfill an important role in society. They act as our conscience when we would otherwise whitewash our history.

They should not be punished for a legitimate act of protest. Please reinstate them immediately.

*Name*, Odd jobs man.

Saorsa

23rd May 2009, 07:53

We will write a statement for groups and individuals to sign in opposition to our expulsion tomorrow, and I'll be sure to post it up here as soon as it's done. Cheers guys :-)

Stranger Than Paradise

23rd May 2009, 08:42

I sent an email as soon as I saw the name of the teacher. Fucking ridiculous what has happened. Hope you get a lot of support for that picket and I really hope that you shall prevail, I am confident you will.

RHIZOMES

23rd May 2009, 09:57

The news of the picket we are going to have up in Auckland is spreading real quickly, we will probably burn a flag in solidarity.

Saorsa

23rd May 2009, 12:09

we will probably burn a flag in solidarity.
:)

I've drafted a copy of the statement for people to sign and will have it up here within the next 24 hours.

mykittyhasaboner

23rd May 2009, 15:39

I guess out of interest, some might want to read my email:

How dare you expel students for protesting imperialism and exercising their right to free speech. As an activist in the anti-war movement, it is appalling to see fellow protesters, activists, and comrades expelled from their university due to their protest. The burning of the flag was done in a smoking area, on a wet day were there was no fire hazard, you and your board of administrators simply pulled that out of your asses. The students who have been expelled have a right to the education that they paid for; and you have absolutely no right to deprive them of that, simply on the grounds that they disagree with the policies and actions of the government of New Zealand.

You spit in the face of people who died for the right to protest, and the right to free speech; namely protesters speaking out against their own governments. You stomp on the faces of people who have been killed or their lives ruined by imperialism, which you blatantly support for taking such harsh action on protesters.

You will have to live with the guilt of being an opponent of freedom of organization and thought, and this is where my words finish; because I cannot stand even acknowledging your pitiful existence...

It's not very professional, but I couldn't be arsed to write anymore, the ***** gets the point.

RedAnarchist

23rd May 2009, 15:43

*****? Seriously?

Yehuda Stern

23rd May 2009, 16:07

Yeah. And "asses"? Come now.

mykittyhasaboner

23rd May 2009, 16:38

*****? Seriously?

That wasn't in the email.

Yeah. And "asses"? Come now.
So what?

Why does it really matter if I used profanity, she doesn't deserve any respect. Plus with the amount of emails shes getting, I doubt she'll read most of them anyways.

Get off your moral high horses.

Sam_b

23rd May 2009, 16:49

I think the point of protest letters is to try and put pressure on the administration to reconsider, alongside the actions of the picket and whatnot. Its all about public opinion as well. So there's no point using such profanity as it won't get the cause anywhere, in some instances can actually do a lot to hurt it.

And we're going to have to aknowledge their 'pitiful existence' because they have the power to reinstate these guys.

Saorsa

23rd May 2009, 16:52

I don't think the fact that he used the word 'ass' is a big deal, and frankly I don't think Willis deserves all that much politeness and respect either. It's no different to if the Dean had been male and he'd used the word "bastard".

RHIZOMES

24th May 2009, 00:42

lol

Nick Keesing (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=765734212) (New Zealand) wrote
at 03:38
Flag-burners are a known type of coward.

If any student burns any flag of any country in the Auckland University quad and I and my friends are there, we will make an immediate citizens arrest, rugby styles, for inciting violence and hand them over to the AUSA custodians. With the different cultures at University, we cannot afford to take a chance on this, its inciting hatred, something that the left used to be against, someone might just go crazy. Take a chance if you think you can do it though.

Shame on you gentler folk.

Oh no better watch out for Nick Keesing!!

Pogue

24th May 2009, 00:48

lol

Oh no better watch out for Nick Keesing!!

Nick Keesing - internet warrior, protector of the innocent, defender of the easily offended nationalists.

Saorsa

24th May 2009, 02:53

Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor

24th May 2009, 03:44

Watch the One News video link Eli provided, it contains footage of someone even scarier. Jack Knowles, World War 2 veteran, thinks we're "little bastards" who "need their backsides kicked". Apparently, "a small jail sentence would wake them up to the fact they should honour their country".

What kind of freedom was he fighting for eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration#New_Zealand

Given that, I'm not sure legal means are going to acquire justice. They're still worth pursuing.

RHIZOMES

24th May 2009, 08:10

From what I remember burning the New Zealand flag was not illegal until the it was outlawed by the Muldoon government back in the early 80s in response the Springbok tour protests. It is hilarious how upset people get over burnt flags.

Hilarious but somewhat frightening. :lol:

Stranger Than Paradise

24th May 2009, 09:21

Fucking mental how it is illegal in some places for you to burn a piece of cloth which essentially means nothing.

NecroCommie

24th May 2009, 10:05

Student solidarity from Finland!

To Ms Deborah Willis,

I received a message from my New Zealandish comrade the other day, saying that he had been expelled for an anti-war demonstration he participated in. Reading the details I have to say that I am more than baffled at the decision and its presumed reasons. As I understand Joel Cosgrove, Alastair Reith and Ian Anderson were expelled for three weeks under the claims of endangering university property and other students. Previous mails to this address have no doubt elaborately pointed out how any threaths to security were grossly over exaggerated, and how exactly the university is billing already poor students for openly expressing their oppinions on NZ foreign policy. Needless to say such financial punishments are in brutal violation of freedom of speech, and this action is nothing more than an agression against democracy.

Provided that the real reason behind the expelling truly was security, it is beyond all reason to immediately impose such extreme punishments. In any civilized country, such punishments are preceded by several warnings. If the students are not even given a chance to improve their actions, it is understandable if they are acting against the intrests of such university.

I write this e-mail in solidarity to my wronged comrades, and demand that all negative effects caused by this event are compensated to Joel Cosgrove, Alastair Reith and Ian Anderson. I would also like to inform that a group of Finnish leftist youth gathers tonight to burn the flags of New Zealand and Finland in considerable quantities. This is to strike at the nationalism that took the freedom of three New Zealanders with such fearsome injustice.

NecroCommie (I edited this bit for this post)
Civilian serviceman
Finland