Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor
18th May 2009, 07:27
Marx's socialist stage pragmatically considers the issue of social norms. Given that capitalist society has people not just believe, but condition to believe, an X amount of flawed premises, a socialist state addresses this. I'm not saying it works, but it accounts for an issue. I'm scared of spiders because of psychological conditioning.
If individuals realize a belief is not self-serving, they can theoretically self-discipline themselves out of it. However, this is really idealistic. Self-discipline isn't unlimited.
Marx suggests individuals can be socialized out of false beliefs by the state. They know "I'm being stupid," but they need an authority to help them. It's similar to giving someone the key to lock you in during a drug recovery.
The problem with this, obviously, is that any society is formed from the people. Unless they necessarily give up sufficient power to be controlled, they will fail. If they give up sufficient power to be controlled, they will give it to someone they can trust to give it back. By necessity, they can't do this. If the person with the key gives you it, you can't force the recovery upon yourself, can you? You either blindly trust someone to give you the key when you're cured, and they likely become corrupted, or you don't do anything? That's current society. I suppose it gets a little bit done.
However, when we talk about anarchism, people are suddenly motivated to establish an ideal society - to discipline themselves? Is this implying that the goals of anarchism are innate. That any logical system that attempts to socialize them away, then, will necessarily have them reemerge. Once they do, a person will necessarily believe them - becoming a homosexual despite a Christian background is a prime example.
Thoughts? If this motivations are innate, do we just keep arguing and fighting with people like atheists versus the religious? I'm a little pessimistic today.
If individuals realize a belief is not self-serving, they can theoretically self-discipline themselves out of it. However, this is really idealistic. Self-discipline isn't unlimited.
Marx suggests individuals can be socialized out of false beliefs by the state. They know "I'm being stupid," but they need an authority to help them. It's similar to giving someone the key to lock you in during a drug recovery.
The problem with this, obviously, is that any society is formed from the people. Unless they necessarily give up sufficient power to be controlled, they will fail. If they give up sufficient power to be controlled, they will give it to someone they can trust to give it back. By necessity, they can't do this. If the person with the key gives you it, you can't force the recovery upon yourself, can you? You either blindly trust someone to give you the key when you're cured, and they likely become corrupted, or you don't do anything? That's current society. I suppose it gets a little bit done.
However, when we talk about anarchism, people are suddenly motivated to establish an ideal society - to discipline themselves? Is this implying that the goals of anarchism are innate. That any logical system that attempts to socialize them away, then, will necessarily have them reemerge. Once they do, a person will necessarily believe them - becoming a homosexual despite a Christian background is a prime example.
Thoughts? If this motivations are innate, do we just keep arguing and fighting with people like atheists versus the religious? I'm a little pessimistic today.